IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-12-21
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11:54:31 <m3henry> Alberth: I hear the project is looking to be more C++11 oriented and I have some time off work over Christmas to spend on it.
11:56:34 <LordAro> m3henry: it's marginally moot until the compile farm runs a newer compiler
11:56:42 <LordAro> be nice to have a few things ready though
11:57:05 <m3henry> What would be prioritized?
11:57:38 <LordAro> entirely personally, i'd like to see a lot of the manual memory management go away
11:58:09 <Alberth> refactoring for the purpose of refactoring isn't done much
11:58:10 <m3henry> I've been replacing instances of MallocT with std::vector
11:58:19 <LordAro> there's a reference counted pointer class somewhere
11:58:41 <Alberth> mostly it gets done as part of changing or extending functionality
12:00:07 <m3henry> I was thinking of making SmallVector's API STL-compliant so that it could be used in templates like other containers
12:01:17 <Alberth> main feature of smallvector is its emplace functionality
12:02:27 <Alberth> in general std:: stuff is prefered rather than our own stuff, but no idea what the current compiler can or cannot handle
12:02:46 <m3henry> What are the toolchains used?
12:04:03 <Alberth> I use g++ at linux, but the program supports lots of platforms
12:04:09 <Alberth> no idea what they use
12:04:27 <m3henry> I'm surprised it's not written down somewhere
12:05:03 <Alberth> oh, it might exist, I just don't know
12:05:21 <Alberth> at least the compile farm knows :p
12:05:32 <m3henry> Reminds me of my workplace xD
12:06:04 <Alberth> well, and this place is not even a paid job :p
12:09:25 <__ln__> C++11-orientedness would be quite a leap as the code even avoids most of C++98 in its current state.
12:10:08 <Alberth> it's not moving that fast, and refactoring for refactoring only isn't done mostly
12:11:14 <m3henry> However, refactoring code that's used in other areas can lower the total cost of ownership
12:12:06 <Alberth> but some parts are hairy and/or time-critical
12:13:30 <Alberth> but hardly any work is done in the program at all, currently
12:14:22 <m3henry> Is that due to completeness, or lack of developers' time?
12:14:36 <Alberth> lack of active developers, mostly
12:14:52 <Alberth> many have moved on as their life changed
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12:15:07 <Alberth> I am still around, but have other interests as well
12:15:25 <__ln__> developers haven't been rewarded with enough cake
12:16:18 <Alberth> and completeness.... it depends on how you play the game. Some areas could use a lot of love, but none of the developers is really interested in that play style
12:16:41 <m3henry> Seeing as I gained much entertainment value out of borth OpenTTD and TTDPatch when I was young, I feel like giving my time back, now that I am able to
12:16:59 <m3henry> What play-style would that be?
12:17:53 <Alberth> some people want to have a realistic simulator
12:18:01 <Alberth> some want to play model trains
12:18:23 <Alberth> some want to make nice scenes (see the screenshot forum)
12:19:08 <m3henry> model trains is covered nicely by the base game + basecost GRF, is it not?
12:19:27 <Alberth> no precise control over how trains run
12:19:41 <Alberth> not 1354 types of tracks
12:20:07 <Alberth> strange magic turn around at a station
12:20:27 <Alberth> no signals on bridges / in tunnels
12:21:09 <Alberth> oh, some want to have a big competition under hard circumstances
12:21:19 <andythenorth> the game is nearly complete tbh
12:21:23 <Alberth> with economic realism
12:21:26 <andythenorth> the big worries are 'will it keep working'
12:21:51 <andythenorth> I would settle for performance that didn't degrade as hardware improves
12:22:10 <andythenorth> OpenTTD has been getting consistently lower performance for the last 5 years for me
12:22:24 <Alberth> eventually our way of rendering the screen will fail
12:22:26 <andythenorth> it's hard to improve though eh :)
12:22:58 <m3henry> Has anyone done code coverage analysis?
12:23:27 <andythenorth> have we got any tests? o_O
12:23:51 <Alberth> noai regression test somewhere
12:23:54 <LordAro> i mean, i guess the AI regression stuff coutns
12:24:05 <andythenorth> I wonder if a partial rewrite is likely to get more attention than some other stuff
12:24:19 <andythenorth> seems hard-but-completable problems attract most interest
12:24:26 <andythenorth> trivial problems seem to bore people
12:24:33 <andythenorth> and some problems are just a tarpit of wishes
12:24:49 <m3henry> Sounds like the sales team at work
12:24:56 <m3henry> always selling the latter
12:25:23 <andythenorth> our sales team is in forums
12:25:31 <andythenorth> advocating for features
12:25:32 <Alberth> problem is that all customers express their wishes, assuming they play the game in the same way as everybody else :p
12:26:01 <Alberth> and assuming dev area of interest is aligned with teirs
12:26:18 <andythenorth> one day I might try and fix station UI :P
12:26:26 <andythenorth> because that aligns with my interest
12:26:34 <LordAro> mm, compile farm doesn't publicly state compiler versions
12:27:08 <Alberth> I am not worried about gcc :p
12:28:06 <Alberth> scenarios is also very much neglected
12:53:21 <Alberth> m3henry: so don't worry too much about what others want, do what you like to do :)
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13:00:42 <m3henry> Fair enough, though it must satisfy the gatekeepers of the repo to be accepted
13:04:04 <m3henry> I suppose I should start by tackling some more flyspray issues
13:06:15 <andythenorth> there are plenty :D
13:06:21 <andythenorth> I deleted about 500 though
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13:49:39 <Alberth> and how to express that in nml is likely something zeph likes to know :)
13:55:39 <andythenorth> it's a palette shift :P
13:55:45 <andythenorth> but why / how, dunnop
14:06:44 <Alberth> 795 is PALETTE_STRUCT_BLUE
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16:39:30 <Samu> admining a server sucks :(
16:40:05 <Samu> st2 do u have admin tips? :p
16:40:41 <Samu> someone left because I started all vehicles that he stopped
16:40:42 <ST2> yeah: create a set of rules -> enforce them! easy peasy :P
16:41:06 <Samu> i also was against station spread, he had one occurrence
16:41:33 <Alkel_U3> I suggest not letting people on the server - people are likely the source of the problem :P
16:42:02 <ST2> Alkel_U3 told the most efficient way xD
16:42:25 <Samu> I usually let them servers run unmoderated for hours
16:42:43 <Samu> there was no complains during that period
16:43:40 <ST2> unless you set different ones, but players must be able to check them
16:44:39 <Samu> Don't cheat to advance yourself within the game. Joining a company operated by someone else
16:44:50 <Samu> well I joined his company, he probably got mad cus of that?
16:44:58 <Samu> i went there to fix the station spread
16:47:08 <Samu> i got a feeling he didn't like my fix
16:48:49 <ST2> make things even faster that grabbing a beer :P
16:54:35 <Alberth> Samu: would you like it if someone else took over your game, and played with it
16:55:24 <Samu> Mogul AI isn't helping to comply the rules though
16:55:36 <Samu> he makes distant join stations :(
16:55:50 <Alberth> You're the admin, you decide what to run
16:56:27 <Samu> Alberth: how do i join an AI company in multiplayer?
16:56:36 <Alberth> but in general, don't invade stuff done by people unless they give permission to do so
16:56:57 <Alberth> no idea, I never play with AIs
16:56:58 <Samu> he's "abusing" roads near some industries, lol, wanna clear that
16:57:16 <Alberth> fix its code is most effective
16:57:33 <Alberth> but what you see as "fix" may not be seen that way by others
16:58:10 <ST2> the move <client-id> <company-id>
16:59:43 <Samu> Error: you cannot move clients to AI companies :(
17:00:54 <Samu> mogul ai breaking the rules
17:01:11 <Samu> the ai relies on distant join
17:01:31 <Samu> if distant join is disabled, he makes those little pieces of roads
17:01:42 <Samu> almost looks like blocking
17:09:42 <Samu> cargodist still confuses me
17:10:15 <Samu> how many stations can a passenger visit before it reaches its final destination?
17:11:02 <ST2> Final Destination has some movies so, it can take a while :D
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18:15:05 <Samu> ppl still don't set autorenew
18:15:18 <Samu> what if you turned it on by default?
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18:29:24 <Alberth> money magically disappears
18:29:35 <Alberth> or trains complain about lack of depots
18:30:12 <Alberth> most people don't have break-down, and no servicing
18:30:20 <Alberth> ie age of vehicles is a non-issue
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18:34:06 <Borg> I play w/ autorenew.. no issues
18:34:40 <Borg> w/o servicing autorenew simple dont kick in
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19:01:36 <Samu> some players are just plain retards :(
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19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27946 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2017-12-21 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 1 change by Absay
19:48:50 <frosch123> yesterday kallithea leaked 40 mb, today 130 mb
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22:10:30 <frosch123> hard to tell, can't see it
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22:40:10 <stefino> there are rails - tram is going throw but there is no graphics - only road o.o
22:43:27 <stefino> the same situation is in other direction. it is simple replace code, sprites looks OK, basic full sprite and upper layer where the road is cutted off
22:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> stefino: try the sprite picker tool, to see whether the rails are there, but simply being overwritten by another sprite
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22:49:31 <stefino> Eddi|zuHause: tram rails sprite is there but not displayed
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23:43:30 <FLHerne> Samu: AAUI: cargodist can create routes with an unlimited number of hops; the amount of cargo sent between two points is related to the geographical distance rather than the route complexity
23:44:39 <FLHerne> Samu: But: individual cargo packets don't have a complete route, or even a destination, at all
23:47:05 <FLHerne> They only care about the next hop, and CDist does statistical magic to make it look as though those individual hops are part of a route
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