IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-09-27
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:20 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
01:12:20 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
01:12:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:38:41 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
01:49:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
04:23:55 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
04:27:14 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
07:35:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:57:29 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd
08:25:58 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
08:54:12 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
08:55:22 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
09:03:49 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
09:05:24 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
10:10:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
10:52:26 <andythenorth> as long as the integer is 5 :P
11:27:38 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
11:28:44 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
11:41:09 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
11:42:04 <V453000> I started making detailed power/speed/TE tables :D shit's nuts
11:43:44 <V453000> andy's got into another vehicle length mess? :P
11:46:58 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd
13:24:25 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
14:51:52 <Flygon> The UK use to have Beavers? O_O
14:53:40 <Flygon> (Still waiting for Tassie Devils to make a sudden resurgence >_>)
14:54:30 <Flygon> "Conservation groups are campaigning for wolves to be reintroduced to Britain, along with brown bears and lynx. Beavers have already been successfully reestablished in some parts of the country."
14:54:38 <Wolf01> But I think they intend nutrias and not really the american beavers
15:53:26 <supermop_> pretty sure UK never had nutrias
15:54:02 <supermop_> Wolf01: did you move to outside rome?
15:54:35 <Wolf01> Oh, there are enough wolves in the alps too
16:18:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:19:16 <V453000> train 6 wagons are fucking awesome
16:19:40 <andythenorth> they’re just Hog trucks on train wheels
16:20:11 <andythenorth> currently every generation is getting ‘short’ and ‘long’
16:20:14 <andythenorth> it might be great
16:20:18 <andythenorth> or it might be total shit
16:20:25 <Wolf01> The grey hoppers look a bit strange
16:29:14 <andythenorth> assuming ‘short’ and ‘long’ doesn’t suck
16:29:31 <andythenorth> it it just about making integer lengths, so both versions should look very similar?
16:29:42 <andythenorth> or is it about variety of graphics, so should be different?
17:04:29 <supermop_> similar but different
17:04:43 <supermop_> should be identifiable as being related, but distinct
17:05:13 <supermop_> finally drew some 1870s-1910s trams last night
17:10:39 <andythenorth> so if the gestalt is different, that’s a different wagon class
17:10:54 <andythenorth> the length thing is just a detail about making trains of integer length
17:11:00 <supermop_> can't decide if roof should be dark or light, if steam boilers should be visible, when/if sides should should get enclosed
17:18:26 <Wolf01> Wow a new patch for TF
17:18:41 <Wolf01> "The patch aims to make your player's life easier by introducing several usability enhancements."
17:19:00 <Wolf01> "Thanks to new fully-functional scroll bars, handling user interface components such as the line manager will be much easier" :D :D :D
17:19:51 <Wolf01> Ok, only bugfixes, scalable UI, and the scrollbars
17:31:27 <supermop_> andythenorth: 4x neighest neighbor
17:34:06 <supermop_> top to bottom: 4/8 open side tram, 3/8 open sided tram, 4/8 enclosed side tram (end platforms open), 5/8 enclosed side tram, 4/8 with windsheild, 5/8 with windsheild
17:36:21 <supermop_> currently, electric trams are open sided 4 and enclosed 5
17:36:31 <supermop_> steam are open 3 and enclosed 4
17:36:42 <andythenorth> dark roof / light roof is potato / potato
17:36:56 <supermop_> electric with trailer is open 4+3
17:37:30 <supermop_> might transition from dark to light based on build year
17:38:09 <supermop_> will probably have a switch to switch from open to closed, and open end to windshield based on build year
17:41:18 <supermop_> light dark doesn't make sense as progression of technology
17:41:25 *** Breckett has joined #openttd
17:41:34 <supermop_> idk what looks better
17:48:24 *** Breckett_ has joined #openttd
17:49:57 <supermop_> This leave generation 'D' - pointy 70s trams, and generation 'G' - sleek near future trams as the only left to be drawn
17:50:47 <supermop_> although 'C' - late 40s through early 60s still needs work as currently i think they are the most blase looking
17:50:57 <supermop_> just look like cans or pills
17:57:56 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:58:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:59:14 <andythenorth> too many variables
18:08:03 <supermop_> needs doors, better 2cc livery, maybe a non cc roof
18:11:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:22:28 <supermop_> i assume you are being facetious
18:22:51 <supermop_> this guy is probably the worst offendor with noise
18:23:08 <supermop_> but its got just so much expanse of sheet metal
18:23:28 <supermop_> 2cc window band might help,
18:29:02 <andythenorth> nah, genuinely has character, wasn’t being facetious
18:29:06 <andythenorth> less noise though
18:31:04 <supermop_> general euro style tapered PCC derivative
18:32:17 <supermop_> actually might not need it if i can get the noise cans to look better
18:34:10 <supermop_> drawing the taper in / and \ is going to be a pain
18:34:25 <supermop_> so might just avoid it
18:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> these things always look weird to me... trams of that size would have 3 doors around here
18:39:03 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the follow-on orders in that class had 3 doors
18:39:42 <supermop_> the lead order did not and was seen as something of a failure
18:40:44 <supermop_> by the time i lived in melbourne, only like 20 Z1s were still running, and those only because ridership was growing faster than old trams could be replaced
18:41:31 * andythenorth has schema problems
18:42:47 <andythenorth> short and long versions of every wagon is stupid
18:43:14 <supermop_> i only have 2 trams mapped out for 60s-70s tapered style
18:43:21 <andythenorth> short and long works for the totall generic types (box, open, flat)
18:43:24 <supermop_> maybe not worth drawing
18:43:27 <andythenorth> and for tankers, where there is no alternative type
18:43:34 <andythenorth> all other types…one length would be better
18:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should finally consider dropping the integer length requirement that nobody ever asked for? :p
18:44:02 <andythenorth> nah, I want to win that game
18:44:15 <andythenorth> also, I asked for it :P
18:44:50 <andythenorth> I am deliberately choosing hard mode, with some 6/8 engines and wagons
18:46:55 * andythenorth considers ‘Coal Car’, ‘Ore Car’, “Aggregate Car’ etc
18:47:52 <andythenorth> and one length per each
18:47:57 <andythenorth> seems less arbitrary
18:55:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:02:30 <andythenorth> what does a ‘Coal Car’ refit to then?
19:06:23 <andythenorth> clue in the name?
19:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: need a new cargo property: density
19:08:49 <andythenorth> can be faked with capacity on cb36 :P
19:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need the coal car for density <X and the ore car for density >X
19:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and whatever aggregate is...
19:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and "fake with CB36" is not an option for future unknown cargos
19:10:46 <peter1138> Sand and gravel, etc.
19:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever introduce the "powderized" cargo class?
19:30:24 <andythenorth> randomised vehicle lengths when building? o_O
19:34:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27921 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-09-27 19:45:38 +0200 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> polish: 22 changes by McZapkie
20:15:14 <andythenorth> what is goal here?
20:15:34 <andythenorth> two goals seem to conflict
20:15:47 <andythenorth> 1) distinctive wagons per cargo type
20:16:01 <andythenorth> 2) not too many wagons
20:28:44 <andythenorth> wagon recolouring? o_O
20:30:49 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: have often been a little bothered by the density issue
20:31:59 <supermop_> mostly for hoppers i guess, but i guess it would be an issue for boxcars too
20:57:13 <andythenorth> on the one hand, easy buy menu
20:57:27 <andythenorth> on the other, ore trains and coal trains delivering to steel mill look different
20:57:36 <andythenorth> stone train and sand train from quarry look different
20:58:23 <andythenorth> which is more desirable?
20:59:12 <supermop_> rake of lots of short ore cars is kind of visually satisfying
20:59:58 <andythenorth> cars are mostly going to be 4/8 or 8/8, for integer reasons :P
21:00:22 <andythenorth> I already have tank cars that recolour per cargo
21:00:31 <andythenorth> so that would be a valid option for other types
21:01:38 <andythenorth> if I add more types, I’ll have to retcon Hog to match :P
21:01:46 <andythenorth> I think simplicity wins out
21:12:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how does the density play out in-game then? o_O
21:15:22 *** glx is now known as Guest5524
21:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so, in the "simple" case, every wagon has a weight cap and a volume cap, and total capacity is the first one that is met
21:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could fill a coal wagon with ore, but it would only be "half full" (by volume) because weight cap is met first
21:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> then it would make sense to use the (shorter?) ore wagon instead, because you get more weight per train length
22:00:20 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
22:29:57 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
22:36:02 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
23:03:47 <frosch123> ah, i was really worried last week when you said the length thing was settled :)
23:04:33 <andythenorth> I have managed to combine it with 2 other conflicting goals
23:13:49 <andythenorth> really the problem is, how many kinds of hopper cars
23:14:41 <andythenorth> various length madness, various type madness
23:15:53 <frosch123> the first flatbed one, is that one or two short wagons?
23:16:35 <frosch123> it's weird in the depot gui, the stakes have the same colour as the window :)
23:16:36 <andythenorth> first wagon is one 8/8
23:16:44 <andythenorth> yeah, it needs redrawn
23:17:05 <andythenorth> I added ‘coal cars’ (all the grey ones)
23:17:09 <frosch123> the floor seems to be one pixel lower than for the other ones
23:17:44 <frosch123> too shiny for coal, looks like grain
23:18:37 <andythenorth> I’m 90% going to just delete them
23:18:53 <andythenorth> not convinced ‘coal car’ makes sense
23:19:03 <frosch123> well, they are not CC, which is a good thing :)
23:19:03 <andythenorth> then a generic car for 25 other bulk cargos :P
23:19:14 <andythenorth> but I could recolour wagons on refit
23:19:20 <andythenorth> tank cars do that
23:20:48 <frosch123> i like the red thing at the front of the steam engine
23:20:56 <frosch123> no idea what it is, but it makes it look unique
23:21:28 <andythenorth> dunno whether to pursue more cargo-specific cars
23:21:35 <andythenorth> already got ‘fruit’ and ‘wood'
23:21:47 <frosch123> do you have non-level flat beds?
23:24:09 <andythenorth> so could do ‘coal car’, ‘sand car’, ‘iron ore car’ etc
23:24:28 <andythenorth> but seems like FIRS çargos will always outstrip that :P
23:24:32 <frosch123> do sand cars polish themself?
23:24:49 <andythenorth> as they travel, yes
continue to next day ⏵
