IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-09-17
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01:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yay. i killed all the kids...
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01:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and now i killed the teacher...
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13:01:25 <andythenorth> so how do livery over-rides work then?
13:01:59 <frosch123> they are deprecated
13:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the engine providing graphics for the wagons. but you should probably not use them
13:02:23 <andythenorth> can’t see how it meets my case
13:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> shouls instead put the graphics on the wagons and have them check the engine
13:02:45 <frosch123> no idea what you want to do, but there are better ways to achieve the same what livery overrides would do
13:02:54 <andythenorth> I want to match the coach sprite to the railcar
13:03:20 <andythenorth> but eh, I think company colour settings bork that anyway
13:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so in the graphics chain just check the ID of the "parent"
13:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and switch the sprites
13:04:00 <andythenorth> yeah, I can do it in the switch chain no problem
13:04:00 <frosch123> add a switch with PARENT scope and check grfid and vehicle_type_id
13:04:09 * andythenorth thought livery over-rides were the ‘proper’ way
13:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also override the recolouring
13:04:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can? o_O
13:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's a callback for recolouring
13:05:19 <andythenorth> I could just provide an unpowered trailer car for the railcar
13:05:30 <andythenorth> or I could just nerf the running cost
13:08:06 <frosch123> colour_mapping: -> switch(PARENT) -> return base_sprite_2cc + company_colour1 + 16 * company_colour2
13:08:26 <frosch123> that will make the vehicle use the same company colours as the front vehicle
13:09:58 <andythenorth> which is better, magic sprites on normal pax car?
13:10:05 <andythenorth> or additional trailer vehicle?
13:10:22 <frosch123> vehicle lengths again? :p
13:11:11 <andythenorth> 8/8 railcars with 8/8 trailers
13:11:30 <andythenorth> train 51 in the screenshot above
13:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you're doing additional trailer vehicles, you have trouble to make them available at the same time as the lead vehicle
13:12:19 <andythenorth> there is a simpler solution
13:12:25 <frosch123> ihmo always make the regular wagons adjust their graphics for the rear vehicle
13:12:27 <andythenorth> railcar uses same body as pax coach
13:12:38 <andythenorth> rear vehicle frosch123? o_O
13:13:02 <frosch123> i lack context, i am guessing the problem, maybe i am off :p
13:13:25 <andythenorth> I wondered if you’d had an amusing hax idea :)
13:13:47 <frosch123> i assumed the question was how to show different graphics for the last vehicle
13:14:04 <andythenorth> also, whether I should :P
13:14:31 <andythenorth> but yes I see, I misread what you said above :)
13:15:00 <frosch123> if you do, the best method imo is to use "position_in_consist_from_end" in the regular wagon
13:15:48 <andythenorth> I won lengths btw :P
13:16:30 <andythenorth> until next time, of course :)
13:37:25 <andythenorth> dual_headed trains
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14:41:37 <Alberth> but no need to convert pixels to lego thus
14:42:00 <andythenorth> well it’s nice when people turn game art into models
14:42:12 * andythenorth suspects that _probably_ the Lego one is inspired by RL
14:42:15 <andythenorth> just like the Horse one
14:42:49 <Alberth> would a too boring alternative to consider :)
14:42:56 <andythenorth> not sure what to do next on Horse
14:43:01 <andythenorth> no shortage of work
14:43:12 <andythenorth> probably solve lengths for freight wagons I guess
14:43:54 <Alberth> or get less obsessed with lengths :)
14:44:01 <andythenorth> I think it pays off tbh
14:44:33 <Alberth> likely it does, in nuts it all works nicely
14:44:37 <andythenorth> aiming for integer length in ~80% of cases seems to help the set design
14:45:10 <Alberth> more restrictions == less room to mess around :)
14:45:49 <Alberth> but I guess it's one of those things you never notice unless it's not working
15:06:25 <peter1138> andythenorth, what set is that?
15:13:28 <andythenorth> peter1138: it’s like UKRS2
15:13:34 <andythenorth> only not drawn so small :P
15:29:37 <peter1138> What's a nice road vehicle set and ship set these days?
15:30:37 <andythenorth> there are no good ship sets
15:30:41 <andythenorth> Hog is ok for RVs
15:30:45 <andythenorth> or eGRVTS of course
15:30:59 <andythenorth> Hog is the only grf I’m not ashamed of tbh
15:48:03 <Alberth> fish2 is quite nice, imho
15:49:14 <Alberth> problem with development is that you only look at things that don't work, and forget about all the things that do work :)
15:50:50 * andythenorth now obsessing about wagon lengths :P
15:51:25 <Alberth> in a difficult way, I might add, just make every vehicle 1 tile, and done :p
15:51:54 <Alberth> might be a bit trouble, even nuts doesn't do that completely :)
15:52:15 <Alberth> sneakily adding wagons to the engines :)
15:52:30 <andythenorth> and some space in front of them, V tells me
15:52:47 <andythenorth> integer lengths is really easy when you can mix up 2 versions of same wagon
15:52:59 <andythenorth> across 2 generations, for example
15:53:16 <andythenorth> works for mail cars
15:53:46 <andythenorth> can’t do that for freight, because I nerf the maximum speed
15:53:53 <andythenorth> so previous generation is too slow :P
15:57:36 <Alberth> I usually only replace engines, if wagons also need replaced, I mostly just build a new train and clone it
16:02:50 <andythenorth> poor man’s consist templates eh? :)
16:06:00 <andythenorth> 4/8 and 8/8 is easiest way to hit integer lengths with wagons :P
16:07:09 <supermop_home> tanks and stephenson's rocket can be 4
16:07:15 <supermop_home> everything else 8
16:07:29 <supermop_home> maybe an 08 or something can also be 4
16:07:52 <supermop_home> if you really want fancy make your pacifics 8 with a 4/8 tender
16:08:11 <supermop_home> your 20s can be 6+6 for same effect
16:14:28 <andythenorth> supermop: I did :)
16:14:38 <andythenorth> pacifics are 8+4
16:16:59 <andythenorth> it’s only – views :P
16:19:08 <andythenorth> should I do some bollocks with cb36, changing wagon speeds to match the date?
16:19:21 <andythenorth> or I could nerf some passenger engine speeds if you attach a freight car
16:19:30 <andythenorth> or I could just let players do what they like :P
16:39:28 <Alberth> other views are overrated, just always show - view, it's clearly the best :p
16:40:50 <andythenorth> that’s quite close to the truth
16:41:17 <andythenorth> eh, 2 lengths of every wagon type in Iron Horse?
16:44:55 <andythenorth> random lengths on construction?
16:55:05 <LordAro> happy to report no (new) warnings with clang5
17:07:44 <Alberth> not convinced forces and power and such should be unsigned, imho
17:10:55 <Alberth> industry production level doesn't seem to know what it wants:
17:10:55 <Alberth> i->prod_level = min(i->prod_level * 2, (int)PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM);
17:10:55 <Alberth> i->prod_level = min<uint>(i->prod_level * 2, PRODLEVEL_MAXIMUM);
17:11:22 <Alberth> I wouldn't be opposed to using the "std::" prefix everywhere
17:13:05 <LordAro> i don't doubt there's some issues with that patch somewhere
17:13:24 <LordAro> i added the `using std::min;` declarations in an attempt to minimise the changes
17:13:35 <LordAro> it wouldn't be difficult to add them back
17:13:53 <LordAro> i just tried to keep it as close to what was done previously
17:13:58 <Alberth> min<int64>(UINT16_MAX, co... :D
17:14:24 <Alberth> yeah, that patch needs very careful checking :)
17:14:46 <Alberth> also, maybe instead of fixing all uses, fix the type of the variable?
17:14:57 <Alberth> probably a tricky problem to decide though
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17:20:17 <Alberth> line 864 looks wrong if (IsRailTT()) max_speed = min<uint16>(max_speed, GetRailTypeInfo(GetRailType(m_old_tile))->max_speed);
17:20:40 <Alberth> rail_speed > 0 is not the same as min
17:27:58 <supermop_home> hmm is there a way to do many random towns, but have it only make small villages
17:29:32 <andythenorth> 2020: The Year We Removed Original Signals
17:32:03 <andythenorth> are shapeways parts cheating? o_O
17:32:12 <Wolf01> I consider them cheating
17:32:16 * andythenorth needs some bear coding
17:32:23 <andythenorth> 1. how fast should freight trains go?
17:32:44 <andythenorth> 2. how do I make 3 generations of 4/8 box van look different and interesting?
17:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> materials (wood, metal) and roof shapes (flat, round)?
17:34:04 <Wolf01> The only not cheating part is the sbrick because it's needed on expos or you won't be able to show your moc, as the power function IR has only 4 channels and a lot of mocs use at least 2, some even 6 with a trick
17:36:55 <Alberth> equally fast-ish as pax? easy to mix them onto a single track
17:37:56 <Alberth> should you ever care to put them together at a single track :p
17:38:04 <Wolf01> BTW, I started building the Saturn V today
17:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> also, do you really need 4/8 wagons? you can balance all trains above 2 tiles with just 8/8 and 6/8
17:40:02 <Alberth> why don't you just round up to integer length, and make sure you don't cross that boundary?
17:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think nobody but andy really cares :p
17:41:12 <Wolf01> If I'll ever do a railset I'll make sure to use only prime numbers
17:41:45 <andythenorth> I’m not worried if anyone else cares :)
17:41:56 <andythenorth> if we chose projects by that criteria…ugg :)
17:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> this isn't about the project, this is about a tiny implementation detail
17:42:38 <andythenorth> it has become the project
17:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the problem :p
17:43:10 <andythenorth> I think we talk across each other :D
17:43:18 <andythenorth> or you understand me perfectly, but find it daft
17:43:48 <andythenorth> anyway, *informed* people telling me it’s wrong only encourages me
17:43:55 <andythenorth> it’s only jackasses that make me cross
17:44:30 <andythenorth> also your point about 8/8 and 6/8 stands Eddi|zuHause
17:44:31 <Alberth> aka no talking you out of it by us :)
17:44:39 <andythenorth> except equally 4/8 and 6/8 works
17:44:54 <andythenorth> problem is, that means two lengths per type
17:44:55 <Alberth> would expect so indeed
17:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but 4/8 is quite tiny
17:45:08 <andythenorth> yes, but that looks nice :)
17:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't want to stop you, but i think you have a really unhealthy obsession there
17:46:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that gap in the steam engine is terrible
17:47:39 <andythenorth> that is easily fixed though ;)
17:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but while the 4/8 wagons in the depot view look cute, they get even tinier in the world view, where the / view dominates over –
17:47:54 <andythenorth> yes, they disappear there
17:48:32 <Alberth> trains get nicer through corners
17:48:58 <andythenorth> what a grumpy forum day :)
17:49:12 <Alberth> borrowed one of V's spaces at train 69, eh?
17:49:41 <supermop_home> 8 hours on the map so far and I am still finding wrong valleys
17:50:29 * andythenorth should fix train 69
17:50:35 <andythenorth> to reduce the peanut gallery noticing it
17:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: are you sure it's not a fractal where each time you zoom in you get a new level of bumps? :p
17:51:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: consider purchasing short wagons in chunks of 2 or 3?
17:51:43 <frosch123> or does that make your length ocd worse?
17:51:58 <andythenorth> it’s probably almost orthogonal to my current problem :)
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18:24:02 <Wolf01> ...and where there is flame you find MB
18:24:26 <Wolf01> Adding nothing but a +1 to his post count
18:24:30 <andythenorth> keeps the conversation going
18:24:49 <Wolf01> I would like to report him so bad
18:26:10 <andythenorth> I don’t know why I’m immune to michael
18:26:21 <andythenorth> he seems to irritate some of you a lot
18:26:27 <andythenorth> I find him amusing
18:26:59 <andythenorth> I talk to michael on forum pm sometimes
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18:50:36 <andythenorth> dunno if TTD scale can show much there eh
18:51:00 <andythenorth> this is more of a speed limit problem, not a length problem :P
18:51:14 <andythenorth> 45mph, 60mph, 75mph, 85mph
18:51:23 <andythenorth> each generation needs wagons
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19:42:25 <andythenorth> awesome title :)
20:12:53 <Wolf01> I think SYL is mixing up things... he's also sending strange PMs and I don't even know what to reply :/
20:13:31 <andythenorth> Wolf01: how come you chose a station board from my station :P
20:13:51 <Wolf01> Ahaah, I just chose a mid sized image from google
20:14:15 <andythenorth> I don’t remember all station boards btw :)
20:14:20 <andythenorth> it’s the trains that give it away
20:14:39 <andythenorth> SYL is sending strange PMs to multiple people
20:18:28 <Wolf01> BTW too bad that KK had that nasty reaction about NRT, I was totally like to ask him some support for BGT, maybe on the road handling by cities as it looked like one who knows how to work... but heh...
20:19:35 <andythenorth> probably I was being an arse
20:20:00 <andythenorth> armchair theorists are annoying
20:22:49 <Wolf01> Maybe we just explained why we got stuck in a wrong way, he picked up really much on "making the 100% perfect patch", which is not what we are going to do, but we are just trying to not put ourselves in a cul-de-sac and getting nowhere with the current draft
20:27:51 <andythenorth> don’t wear clown shoes in public
20:27:58 <andythenorth> NRT has clown shoes on
20:28:07 <andythenorth> w.r.t catenary in towns, and upgrading town roads
20:33:50 <V453000> still no new comments on brix :0
20:33:56 <Alberth> gey box car too long :p
20:33:58 <V453000> guess I should work on it :D
20:34:03 <Wolf01> I think some things could be addressed later, some other are just plain fuck like catenary distinction between road and tramway, or even having to use all the 15 tramtypes just to change the pavement without having any difference in speed or limitation
20:34:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks for the help :)
20:34:28 <andythenorth> Wolf01: the killer things are ‘upgrading’ (fixes town roads) and ‘catenary is shared’
20:34:28 <Wolf01> And to address the plain fuck ones, we need something like BGT
20:34:40 <andythenorth> the ground types variety is slightly distracting imo
20:36:14 <Alberth> oh, NRT2 thus, seems nice progress in thinking
20:36:15 <V453000> ooh forum drama over grf scale standards
20:36:19 <V453000> too ridiculous to take seriously
20:38:20 <Wolf01> Is that TT scale started with a totally different problem?
20:38:21 <Alberth> andy, can't you make the open car more open, ie holes in the wood part?
20:39:16 <V453000> I think just discussing scale in OpenTTD is something outright ridiculous
20:39:37 <Alberth> variation in blue box cars is nice, not sure that you can actually see it in-game though
20:44:51 <andythenorth> open car needs some work
20:45:01 <andythenorth> not happy with the box cars
20:45:09 <andythenorth> I could just have them look the same like pikka does
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20:49:45 <andythenorth> I could piss around with colours I suppose
20:49:48 <andythenorth> gen 1 could be grey
20:49:51 <andythenorth> or have grey roof
20:50:20 <V453000> why does the hopper have good contrast
20:50:22 <Alberth> you don't have a reefer car, do you?
20:50:24 <V453000> and rest of them much less of it
20:58:36 <andythenorth> V453000: is needing redrawn all
20:58:43 <andythenorth> Alberth: there are reefer cars yes
21:04:39 <Alberth> hmm, maybe I played with horse too long ago
21:25:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I guess VAAs etc are too late?
21:28:36 <FLHerne> They have to get longer at some point, surely?
21:30:19 <andythenorth> but I specifically want to have 4/8 long in 1960…for reasons :)
21:31:17 <FLHerne> You could have the early ones be planked, and later be plywood
21:31:22 <FLHerne> Not that anyone would notice
21:31:32 <andythenorth> working on it :)
21:31:40 <andythenorth> drawing planks is tricky at TTD size :)
21:32:14 <FLHerne> You could go to 8bppEZ
21:32:31 <FLHerne> Someone was doing that, at 2x scale only
21:34:15 <FLHerne> Well, I guess I can tell them apart
21:37:09 <andythenorth> working on it :)
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