IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-08-28
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09:06:25 <andythenorth_> so did we move to github yet?
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12:06:58 <blocage> is therthere is a way to printf in openttd source ?
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13:26:47 <blocage> _dp_, that's work, I do not know what stupid think I did
13:48:49 <Wolf01> You know what? I feel the genworld ui a bit confusing, for example the size VS edges parts
15:21:11 <_dp_> somehow all the videos on youtube about rust are incredibly boring :(
15:21:26 <Wolf01> Rust is incredibly boring
15:21:46 <Wolf01> I started to play it on my own, because I got tired of people
15:26:52 <_dp_> It's quite a promising language actually
15:27:44 <_dp_> Imo the first one that looks like it can actually beat c/c++
15:30:30 <_dp_> But in c++ you learn the basics and you can code. It will be a shitty code but you'll learn eventually
15:30:57 <_dp_> And in Rust you kind of have to learn all the complex stuff before you can write anything useful
15:32:48 <_dp_> like I get why oop sucks but wtf are traits and how am I supposed to use them
15:33:42 <_dp_> or borrow checker that doesn't let me pass variables around
15:36:17 <_dp_> It's cool that it's guaranteed to be safe but that's of no use if I can't get it to compile :p
15:36:49 <blocage> _dp_, it'ssafe because you are not allowed to do unsafe stuff
15:36:55 <Wolf01> Would you like it more to compile non working code?
15:37:17 <blocage> Wolf01, unsafe code, does not mean unworking code
15:38:28 <Wolf01> Asm and C exists for that, let it to them
15:38:34 <blocage> and there is probably a lot of safe code that you can't do,just because the compiler cannot figure out that they are safe
15:44:11 <LordAro> i mean, you can do unsafe stuff in rust
15:44:15 <LordAro> but it's explicitly unsafe
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17:00:55 <LordAro> still can't read paste :p
17:12:43 <frosch123> LordAro: do you know how gitlab chat incorporates into the irc/discord "controversy" :p
17:14:33 <Wolf01> A friend of mine is bitching that he isn't able to use ottd with screen
17:15:47 <Wolf01> He said that uses a different config than the one used when launching without screen
17:15:48 <frosch123> all coop servers run inside screen
17:15:52 <Alkel_U3> I use dedicated openttd in screen all the time
17:16:36 <frosch123> Wolf01: direct him/her to readme.txt, it lists all the search paths :)
17:16:40 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: did he try whether by some black magic it would run in tmux?
17:17:18 <Wolf01> frosch123: he is asking me what the readme is saying line by line... it seem he is not able to understand it
17:17:36 <LordAro> i see no reason why running in a screen/tmux window would affect anything at all, for the dedicated server
17:17:38 <frosch123> translate it to italian?
17:18:15 <Wolf01> A good reason to slap him
17:20:13 <Alkel_U3> "I need to run this game on my system, counting on your support" "Sure, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you"
17:22:41 <Wolf01> It took me 10 minutes to instruct him how to get rid of the "you need a baseset" error.
17:24:38 <Wolf01> Also he doesn't have patience
17:26:32 <Alkel_U3> maybe he'd be happier with a remote X server
17:27:22 <Wolf01> He has this old computer which runs as a server, so he wants to put some dedicated servers on it
17:29:24 <Alkel_U3> hm, it's true that I can't think of a problem that would be blocking him from running it remotely in screen and wouldn't also interfere with running from window manager :-)
17:30:06 <Alkel_U3> unless he seriously broke something in which case he needs a flamethrower ant start from scratch, probably
17:32:29 <Wolf01> Ok, when he launched with screen the openttd.cfg disappeared *automagically* from the game folder
17:33:15 <Alkel_U3> I'm not saying flamethrover, but... flamethrower.
17:37:45 <frosch123> LordAro: "lack of self-hosted"? we did not want to host ourself, did we?
17:38:00 <frosch123> LordAro: the circleci advertisement on github lists it as free for open source
17:38:34 <frosch123> i did not verify that though :)
17:38:42 <LordAro> linux is free, osx is not, afaict
17:39:07 <frosch123> ok, interested in trying the gitlab ci?
17:40:16 <Wolf01> All the people here please lend me an hand because I need a huge facepalm
17:40:24 <LordAro> i can certainly give it a go
17:40:24 <Wolf01> He executed screen as root
17:40:52 <Alkel_U3> Tactical facepalm primed! Fire! :D
17:41:18 <Alkel_U3> ok, not very seasoned linux user, I assume
17:41:21 <frosch123> time for new friends? :p
17:54:17 <Wolf01> He changed the code of openttd-init now, to specify the path to ottd, because it was the "easiest solution"
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17:59:15 <Wolf01> Ahahahah now he can't reconnect to the server via ssh
18:00:04 <Alberth> playing with firewalls? :p
18:00:47 <Alkel_U3> well, that escalated much faster than I anticipated
18:10:07 <frosch123> Wolf01: did he set the server password via passwd?
18:10:56 <Wolf01> He ran the openttd-init with an error in the config, now he can't log on the server anymore
18:14:48 <Alkel_U3> does he have local access or does he have the server tucked away far away from current location?
18:15:28 <Wolf01> The server is at his home, but no way to use it locally
18:15:44 <Wolf01> He doesn't have a compatible display
18:16:15 <Alkel_U3> and no serial console enabled :P
18:16:47 <Alkel_U3> (that saved me from having to reflash my Cubieboard2 at least once)
18:17:48 <Alkel_U3> well, he can still mount the HDD in another computer and try to repair configs from there :-)
18:18:03 <Wolf01> No other computer, just a laptop
18:21:20 <Alkel_U3> my old laptop had eSATAp so attahing internal HDDs was rather straightforward but I think this port is no longer popular (if it ever was)
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18:37:36 <Wolf01> Good, I think he fucked up badly
18:37:51 <Wolf01> "I'm done with the server today"
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18:52:57 <LordAro> frosch123: my gitlab guy says the following:
18:53:14 <LordAro> there's no OSX or windows runners available, even if you want to pay for them
18:53:33 <LordAro> you can register your own runners and have them pick up builds tagged windows, osx, etc, if you've got the hardware though
18:53:41 <LordAro> (While still using the gitlab.com free ones for everything else)
18:54:27 <frosch123> ok, in summary: there is no osx compile farm on either gitlab or circleci?
18:55:17 <LordAro> gitlab - not hosted, circleci - not free and very different to the 2.0 container based stuff they have for linux (for now, at the very least)
18:55:43 <LordAro> "we do have bamboo integration, if they wanted to move a piece at a time"
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18:56:04 <planetmaker> means we can serve it bamboo clients?
18:56:45 <planetmaker> that sounds like a nice thing at least for transition... we have them
18:56:59 <frosch123> no, they would still have to run on our hardware, right?
18:57:12 <frosch123> with bamboo integration they do not mean them running the containers
18:57:28 <LordAro> how cheap can OSX hosting get?
18:57:38 <frosch123> so, it seems there is no way around maintaining a custom compile farm
18:58:09 <LordAro> but if you're doing partially, might as well do the whole thing
18:58:20 <frosch123> LordAro: the more sites are involved the harder it is to admin
18:58:38 <LordAro> perhaps, but everything we're talking about now is less than it is currently
18:59:22 <planetmaker> yeah... admin work is a PITA
18:59:58 <LordAro> i can't imagine the admin work (once it's setup and working) would be all that significant
18:59:58 <planetmaker> he... doesn't sound exactly inviting
19:00:13 <frosch123> LordAro: anything more than a vserver is too expensive
19:00:43 <planetmaker> are we pondering to let go of our dedicated server?
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19:01:52 <planetmaker> well... with the CF possibly gone, and the repo, too.. there's mostly wiki - and bananas, and master server...
19:01:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: the main goals are new compile farm and some git platform with pull-requests instead of svn and fs
19:02:14 <frosch123> but yes, if we can get the compile farm externally, we can possibly downgrade to vserver
19:02:47 <planetmaker> how does pull requests relate to bug tracker?
19:03:05 <planetmaker> that's included basically in what we see at github and also gitorius, yes?
19:03:12 <frosch123> planetmaker: github/gitlab have everything integrated, repository, issue tracker and code review
19:04:13 <frosch123> oh, that was even a thing once
19:04:30 <planetmaker> incorporated in gitlab meanwhile
19:05:36 <frosch123> hmm, osx vserver do not seem to exist
19:06:20 <frosch123> does anyone know what that does? :p
19:07:12 <LordAro> magic involving cross compiling
19:08:02 <planetmaker> yeah... that's a OSX toolchain cross-compiled to run on x64 system
19:08:30 <planetmaker> but you knew that, too ;)
19:08:45 <LordAro> it's certainly doable with more modern versions than what's done currently
19:11:45 <frosch123> sounds like i need a vm to try some docker tutorials :p
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19:23:03 <andythenorth_> do we have goals again? :)
19:25:19 <andythenorth_> frosch123 new issue tracker or you want to keep FS?
19:26:34 <frosch123> andythenorth_: i certainly want to archive fs data for commit-reference
19:26:58 <andythenorth_> meh to full atlassian
19:26:58 <frosch123> i am definitely against mail-list-based trackers, but they were not even suggested :p
19:27:20 <andythenorth_> i am a satisfied paying bitbucket user, but eh
19:27:42 <frosch123> i have hardly experience with gitlab or github, so they are potato/potato to me
19:28:23 <andythenorth_> 'github won' definitely applies, but when I use github I don't love it
19:29:01 <andythenorth_> os x build - could just pay for an os x compile environment :p
19:29:20 <andythenorth_> get OS X users to patreon fund it
19:30:14 * andythenorth_ afk again, but services where other people get the down notifications are better :)
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19:37:43 <frosch123> the self-hosted community edition does not allow to link between issues? wtf?
19:38:57 <andythenorth_> accidentally crippled or deliberate? o_O
19:39:53 * andythenorth_ doesn't know how github tracker works
19:40:31 <andythenorth_> one if the github vs. gitlab pages said that on github only those with repo access can manage issues
19:40:42 <frosch123> andythenorth_: problem with most comparisions is that they seem to assume web-projects
19:41:07 <frosch123> so they all say "gitlab has ci", which was just disproven
19:41:18 <andythenorth_> i am on my phone so I can't test in my openttd fork
19:41:39 <frosch123> shall i create some issues for nrt? :p
19:41:41 <andythenorth_> actually I probably could but won't :
19:41:52 <andythenorth_> frosch123: try it :p
19:42:00 <andythenorth_> wolf01 has a fork too
19:42:08 <andythenorth_> get your own :)
19:42:43 <andythenorth_> i would have pushed git harder, but i didn't want to annoy those who prefer hg :)
19:42:57 <frosch123> apparently git has won by 2012
19:43:32 <andythenorth_> that's roughly when we dropped svn at work
19:44:10 <andythenorth_> we picked some losing tech previously so now we try really hard to pick the winnig option :)
19:45:19 <Wolf01> You can CI with travis on github
19:46:11 <frosch123> that only does java
19:46:19 <frosch123> i already checked all the advertisement :p
19:46:21 <andythenorth_> we already CI from github
19:46:42 <andythenorth_> just we don't think out CF is survivable :)
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19:47:57 <andythenorth_> cross-compiling CI is not widely advertised commercial service
19:48:05 <frosch123> github interlinks issues when mentioned in a comment
19:48:26 <frosch123> i can't imagine a self-hosten gitlab not doing that... maybe they mean something else?
19:48:33 <andythenorth_> doesn't everything?
19:48:47 <andythenorth_> plan.io does that
19:49:00 <frosch123> anyway, since external ci is failure, we can go back to the initial goal to upgrade the compile farm :)
19:49:13 <frosch123> the rest were only related goals which came up
19:49:54 <andythenorth_> in order, hosted CI seems to be 70% php/ruby/python/css, 20% iOS, 10% Android
19:50:19 <andythenorth_> probably c++ shops don't allow it off their LAN
19:50:42 <andythenorth_> surprising how many people still have svn box under a desk :p
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19:51:44 <milek7> gitlab also links issue ids
19:52:01 <milek7> these 'related issues' looks like weird tags
19:52:37 <frosch123> milek7: yes, but does self-hosted gitlab also do that?
19:53:59 <LordAro> frosch123: the self hosted software is no different to gl.com
19:55:18 <frosch123> LordAro: so is that about page complete nonsense?
19:56:35 <LordAro> i'll refine - the free hosted version is no different to the community edition
19:57:03 <milek7> there aren't any osx cross-compilers in docker package?
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20:10:06 <frosch123> hmm some "os x" comments in the middle
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20:12:39 <LordAro> it only has 2 images (ubuntu 12.04 & 14.04) and they rarely get updated
20:13:20 <milek7> but anyway travis don't host artifacts
20:26:56 <Wolf01> If you’re using other test frameworks the process is similar. Please note that the MSTest framework is not supported, as it only works on Windows/Visual Studio.
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22:03:00 <idl0r> is there anything you guys would say is a must have addon/extension?
22:05:17 <frosch123> heqs and fish have no competition
22:05:36 <frosch123> but they cover areas which are not used by everyone
22:11:24 <V453000> RENDAR :> Chances are I might have arctic trees finished
22:11:30 <V453000> bad news is every other climate has more of them XD
22:12:02 <frosch123> well, they are no frozen yeti
22:12:22 <frosch123> but the white hats are kind of cute
22:12:34 <frosch123> do you already have idea for desert trees?
22:12:39 <frosch123> though iirc there is only one :/
22:13:28 <V453000> the more scary part is the 18 types of tropic trees
22:13:37 <frosch123> i guess in earlier sets you would just have used a yeti with a sunshade
22:14:08 <V453000> currently I don't have a yeti there, basically for software migration reasons
22:14:13 <V453000> but I might re-add them
22:15:59 <frosch123> i guess a pineapple would make a nice tropic tree
22:16:29 <frosch123> brown/yellow trunk, something green on top
22:16:36 <V453000> I have many sketches but let's see what becomes reality
22:23:29 <frosch123> alterenatively you could define rainforest as zerg creep
22:46:36 <_3298> frosch, did you see the split-in-two version of my window placement patch (FS#5451) yet? yesterday (before the split) you seemed to be interested in it, but i didn't see a reaction / question after that
22:48:03 <frosch123> yes, i saw it, looks good
22:53:32 <_3298> note that i spotted an indentation issue in the patch about child window placement afterwards. that shouldn't go into trunk like that (line 1636 after applying) if you intend to push it
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23:19:09 <V453000> isn't andythenorth sleeping?
23:22:10 <V453000> it will still get some love but I am quite happy with it tbh
23:22:47 <andythenorth> can’t ask for more
23:23:35 <V453000> well you can ask for anything :P
23:25:09 <andythenorth> ponies for the fields?
23:25:42 <V453000> :D I don't know, but no fields for this version
23:25:52 <V453000> If something then I would do river edges probably
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23:32:10 <andythenorth> someone has been busy closing them while I was away
23:39:55 <andythenorth> V453000: how doing desert trees?
23:40:00 <andythenorth> same but different?
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