IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-08-02
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11:15:11 <Wolf01> Bah... 31°C perceived as 34°C, and it isn't the top of the day yet
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11:17:39 <Arveen2> 24c right now, 27c max predicted
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11:31:22 <andythenorth> do we think NRT will?
11:31:35 * andythenorth trying to balance 2 grfs
11:31:52 <andythenorth> Iron Horse has narrow gauge trains
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11:32:17 <andythenorth> Road Hog might gain industrial trains ( as tramtype)
11:32:32 <andythenorth> rework of HEQS trams
11:33:06 <Wolf01> What about my suggestion from yesterday?
11:33:21 <Wolf01> The one to make *types dynamic
11:34:11 <andythenorth> better commented on by frosch :)
11:34:26 <Wolf01> The separation will be made with a property and not with a different data structure
11:34:29 <andythenorth> which problem does it solve?
11:35:25 <Wolf01> 1. You will be able to make from 29 roads and 1 tramway and 1 road and 29 tramway
11:38:22 <Wolf01> 2. If we remove tramway completely and make it just a property of the road, then you can just draw twice the sprites for road, one set normal and one set with tramway
11:38:46 <Wolf01> 4. everything is under control of the author
11:40:44 <andythenorth> how is tram-without-road implemented?
11:42:13 <Wolf01> Property of groundtype instead of road?
11:42:46 <andythenorth> I keep coming back to the conclusion that current spec is fine :p
11:43:10 <Wolf01> It is fine because it works already
11:44:50 <andythenorth> also it doesn't cause me any problems :)
11:44:53 <Wolf01> But after some usage I found that there are some weird limitations, which groundtype could diminish, like having to define 10 different tramways for 10 different ground graphics
11:45:26 <andythenorth> if they were all implementing RAIL (for example)
11:45:43 <andythenorth> we could group them somehow in the UI
11:45:57 <andythenorth> maybe types need variants
11:46:54 <andythenorth> actually, that's likely not possible in map currently
11:47:18 <andythenorth> maybe labels don't have to be unique?
11:47:36 * andythenorth thinking out loud
11:49:43 <andythenorth> the appearance is orthogonal to the vehicle compatibility? o_O
11:50:08 <andythenorth> so why are both tied to the same property (label)?
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11:53:38 <andythenorth> funny how the length of narrow gauge train sprites depends on decisions for NRT :p
11:53:59 <andythenorth> maybe it shouldn't 😉
12:18:10 <andythenorth> current IH narrow gauge, versus converting to 2/8 long wagons
12:18:38 <andythenorth> ipad can only jpg, so image is spidery :|
12:23:04 <andythenorth> probably would need to redraw track sprites
12:23:16 <andythenorth> too wide currently
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15:26:45 <dihedral> how are things in here?
15:27:19 <dihedral> when is the next openttd party? :-P
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15:28:23 <__ln__> haven't heard anything of such
15:28:31 <dihedral> that is a real pitty
15:28:50 * dihedral waves at planetmaker
15:30:09 <dihedral> Rubidium, make it happen ;-)
15:30:26 <__ln__> would a weihnachtsmarkt-glühwein-openttd party work? :)
15:41:05 <Arveen2> number 32 without olives plz
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16:15:29 * Rubidium decrees that the next party is on Saturday 9th of september 2017 at dihedral's place
16:15:44 <Rubidium> dihedral, thanks for offering your place ;)
16:27:13 <dihedral> a turn of events :-P
16:27:21 <planetmaker> Weihnachtsmarkt-Party at dih's place somewhen November/December? Sounds quite acceptable to me
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16:41:33 <LordAro> dihedral: you finishing up the next 2.3k commits then?
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19:29:58 <andythen_> 3/8 is not a good length eh :p
19:30:56 <andythen_> 2/8 is _really_ short
19:32:20 <andythen_> I quite like the 2/8 but the diagonal views will be wider than they are long :p
19:33:36 <andythen_> still...narrow gauge trains are small eh
19:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that is your upper row of wagons?
19:47:23 <Cubey> What do 2/8, 3/8, 8/8 etc. refer to specifically?
19:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Cubey: a tile has 16 steps, 8 steps make one default wagon (half a tile)
19:48:22 <andythen_> eddi the upper row is current Iron Horse
19:48:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Cubey: but newgrfs can make shorter wagons
19:48:50 <andythen_> the lower row is one option I'm considering for narrow gauge re-scaled
19:48:53 <Cubey> So 2/8 literally means wagons a quarter the length of the defaults?
19:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythen_: i don't think those wagons serve as example for your lower ultra-short wagons
19:49:23 <andythen_> eddi what's your rationale?
19:49:35 <Cubey> Wow, for some reason they don't look that small to me. Eyes playing tricks I guess
19:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Cubey: that's because the horizontal view is artificially stretched
19:50:12 <andythen_> gestalts scale in a way that makes true size hard to judge
19:50:23 <Cubey> Oh because it's really on a diagonal
19:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Cubey: because of weird perspective tricks in openttd, wagons in – view are longer than in / or \ view
19:52:02 <Cubey> I know that trains look much longer when they are traveling along diagonal track, so it makes sense that that extends to the sprites themselves
19:52:24 <andythen_> dozer on left is twice the weight of the ones on the right
19:52:37 <andythen_> but shape is similar so very hard to judge
19:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "twice the weight" is not that much bigger, considering that weight scales cubed
19:54:25 <andythen_> it's more a point about judging size
19:54:34 <andythen_> ships have same challenge
19:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythen_: anyway, you should judge your wagons based on the / view
19:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythen_: because that is what you see most in the game
19:55:22 <andythen_> 6px wide, 4px long?
19:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the – view is mostly to look pretty in depots and lists
19:56:33 <andythen_> 2/8 is appealing for integer train lengths
19:56:38 <andythen_> but might look daft
19:57:17 <andythen_> 3/8 would look best, but...the integers :(
20:04:09 <andythen_> 8 * 3/8 wagons, 4/8 engine, 4/8 brake van
20:06:53 <andythen_> some of the other rosters will have 'bigger' narrow gauge, and it will be better to reuse sprites
20:07:02 <andythen_> so maybe bigger is better here
20:07:21 <andythen_> 4/8 is compatible with realisms
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20:10:50 <andythen_> and this concludes today's length discussion :p
20:11:05 <andythen_> what's to be done about NRT?
20:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> commit it? make a party?
20:12:21 <andythen_> it has fallen into a spec hole
20:17:43 <andythen_> if we broke newgrf spec more...
20:17:58 <andythen_> we could ship more recklessly :)
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23:10:55 <andythenorth_> Wolf01 so finish current NRT, persuade someone to merge it? :)
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