IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-07-25
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00:02:51 <Alkel_U3> not looking so great here, either, but last time I looked, it was a bit more urgent in Poland, yes
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10:20:01 <__ln__> hello italy, the country surrounded by vatican and san marino
10:22:13 <Wolf01> Don't spread false informations :P
10:23:39 <__ln__> entirely non-false all of it
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14:29:18 <__ln__> is there some neural network based advanced irc bot that could be fed with all the lines spoken by T*** and Bjarni? so we could resurrect them on the channel.
14:29:59 <__ln__> maybe two separate bots though, because the hybrid of those two gentlemen would be maybe too extreme.
14:31:52 <__ln__> isn't that pretty old and outputs nonsense?
14:32:56 <Wolf01> Some gibberish because of the recursive sentence composition, but it was funny
14:34:22 <__ln__> the minimum for funny has increased over the years
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18:22:49 * andythenorth_ puzzling trains still :p
18:23:43 <andythenorth_> Current challenge: I don't like that engines get longer then shorter
18:23:53 <andythenorth_> According to realism
18:26:49 <Alberth> better than the other way around, at least
18:26:50 <andythenorth_> One option would be to OP the steam engines and nerf the diesels/electrics
18:27:39 <Alberth> add some cargo-part to the shorter engine?
18:28:19 <Alberth> could be useful for supplies ;)
18:28:20 <andythenorth_> I could multiple-unit the diesels/electrics
18:28:27 <andythenorth_> E.g the chinook
18:28:55 <andythenorth_> it's even realism until 1980 or so
18:29:25 <Alberth> for realists, stop playing at 1980 :)
18:29:42 <andythenorth_> I am going to increase the unrealism
18:30:10 * andythenorth_ is handicapped by knowing too much about rl trains
18:30:27 <andythenorth_> V does not have that problem :p
18:30:54 <Alberth> it takes time to unlearn all the wrong things you know :)
18:32:02 <Alberth> I am not bothered by engines getting shorter tbh
18:32:31 <Alberth> At some point I need to make a new train for the next gen wagons anyway
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19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27891 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2017-07-25 19:45:37 +0200 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> spanish: 29 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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19:51:09 <andythenorth_> - fast pax (high hp, low TE)
19:51:40 <andythenorth_> - small fast pax (same but small, for branchlines)
19:52:08 <andythenorth_> - large freight (low speed, high TE)
19:52:25 <andythenorth_> - medium freight (same but smaller)
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19:53:12 <andythenorth_> - railcars 8/8 single unit refittable to pax/express
19:53:48 <andythenorth_> railcars fail in current IH it's usually more profitable to use an engine & coaches
19:56:25 <Alberth> railcars are the combined passenger/mail wagons?
19:57:50 <andythenorth_> nah, they are the small diesel trains
20:04:58 <andythenorth_> Should train progression provide more capacity per unit length? Or constant?
20:05:24 <andythenorth_> Because we don't have consist management, both options suck :)
20:07:13 <Alberth> simplest is probably only needing to do engine replacement
20:07:30 <Alberth> which would suggest we keep the same wagons (forever)
20:08:21 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure what the best schema is
20:08:59 <andythenorth_> Road Hog increases speed, power and capacity per generation, but lengths are constant
20:09:18 <Alberth> making jumps in wagons would be another option, ie a new wagon with more capacity for a new engine
20:09:48 <andythenorth_> it's relatively trivial to scrap some RVs if a route is over-provided after a vehicle upgrade
20:09:58 <Alberth> pushing the user to make a full replacement
20:10:23 <andythenorth_> Yes, my intent is matching wagon and engine upgrades
20:10:47 <andythenorth_> At least for 3 out of 4 generations
20:11:15 <andythenorth_> I guess if capacity is suddenly too high, scrap a few trains?
20:11:36 <andythenorth_> But then deliveries are much less frequent
20:11:55 <andythenorth_> 300t train > 400t after upgrade
20:11:56 <Alberth> I think it hardly matters, as long as you're not running in the red
20:12:28 <andythenorth_> RVs, a 25% capacity upgrade has much less impact
20:13:11 <Alberth> basically, the mass-replacements of default track types have that problem, and afaik, people just mostly copy/paste the entire setup and train fleet to the new track-type
20:13:43 <Alberth> they don't bother fine-tuning, I think
20:14:11 <Alberth> for default industries it's not so bad though, as industries will grow and fill the gap
20:14:16 <andythenorth_> Arguably the best upgrade for player is higher capacity and _shorter_ :p
20:14:28 <andythenorth_> better track utilisation
20:14:59 <andythenorth_> FIRS doesn't grow industries in same way as default eh :p
20:15:08 <Alberth> faster may actually need more track than slow
20:15:28 <Alberth> even though fast is much more interesting to play with :p
20:15:44 <Alberth> it's the case on RL high-ways afaik
20:15:54 <andythenorth_> Stopping distance
20:16:24 <andythenorth_> What's the 'remove wagons' thing on auto-replace?
20:16:33 <andythenorth_> It's quite magic
20:16:46 <andythenorth_> Anyone know what it does?
20:17:05 <andythenorth_> It seems to understand brake vans:p
20:17:17 <Alberth> iirc it removes wagons to compensate for the longer engine
20:18:04 <andythenorth_> It always seems to have a good result
20:18:11 <Alberth> and I am not surprised if it would understand cabeese things :)
20:18:28 * andythenorth_ wonders about a 'maintain capacity' option
20:19:02 <andythenorth_> bbl, losing signal :(
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20:19:52 <Alberth> much of the auto-replace code should be changed into something that works better, in some way, I think
20:20:40 <Alberth> it feels as too much ad-hoc additions
20:28:03 <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :)
20:28:44 <Alberth> seems like a nicer solution, doesn't it?
20:29:16 <Alberth> but so far, I have sufficient problems with FioOpenFile :p
20:29:23 <frosch123> yep, same for construction
20:29:39 <frosch123> build train from template, instead of copy, delete orders, add new orders
20:29:56 <Alberth> I do like the original low-level complexity though
20:30:36 <Alberth> much simpler to get into the game, without the need to make templates etc first
20:30:45 <frosch123> well, when FioOpenFile is done, maybe we can finally add some cache for tar, newgrf and scenario scanning :)
20:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think autoreplace actually knows about brake vans, but it takes away the wagons not from the end, but from the beginning, i think
20:31:29 <Alberth> many tycoon-ish games connect orders etc also to consist, so you have to setup a lot of stuff to get one train running
20:32:49 <Alberth> that's how myths are born :)
20:34:44 <Wolf01> <frosch123> you mean template-based autoreplace? :) <- transport fever has it and I don't like it the way is implemented, maybe we could do it a lot better
20:38:02 <frosch123> Wolf01: there is a maintained patch on forums
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20:40:46 <Wolf01> Andy then... then what?
20:41:47 <frosch123> did you try turning wifi off :p
20:43:29 <andythen_> Rather too accurate :p
20:43:44 <andythen_> But wifi is free, 4g costs £
20:44:53 <andythen_> If wagons were 2x 4/8, then 8/8, that might nearly work
20:45:07 <andythen_> I have to abandon realism though eh
20:46:05 <andythen_> Very common uk/european freight wagons have 2 axles and should be 6/8 long
20:49:15 <andythen_> realism must die eh :(
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21:11:25 <andythen_> 6/8 kind of looks good though :|
21:11:34 <andythen_> It's totally illogical
21:11:55 <andythen_> Logic > aesthetics?
21:12:07 <andythen_> Or aesthetics > logic?
21:12:19 <frosch123> well, fake the length of the last wagon to be either 4/8 or 8/8
21:12:33 <frosch123> so that trains always fit whole tiles
21:12:51 <andythen_> Considered that, but sometimes it has to be 2/8 no?
21:13:06 <frosch123> no, then the previous would be 8/8
21:13:45 <andythen_> Magic wagons might solve it
21:14:13 <frosch123> or use dual-headed engines
21:14:22 <frosch123> with variable length cabage
21:14:46 <frosch123> actually, i think we would have to patch that first :p
21:14:58 <frosch123> for some reason dual-headed engines are neglected
21:23:01 <andythen_> I dropped dual headed due to crazy 3-part vehicles for 10/8 length
21:23:26 <andythen_> Not sure that's needed :p
21:23:57 <andythen_> Can dual-headed be abused for auto-caboose? :p
21:24:17 <Wolf01> That was my proposal too
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21:36:18 <andythenorth_> How often do 6/8 vehicles hit integer or half-integer lengths?
21:37:10 <frosch123> andythenorth_: V uses dual-headed for auto-caboose
21:37:46 <andythenorth_> The rear sprites can be separate?
21:38:05 <andythenorth_> Presumably 'caboose' = slug tail?
21:38:39 <frosch123> nah, there is some weird push-train
21:38:48 <frosch123> flat wagon as head, real engine at back
21:39:04 <frosch123> probably there is some joke
21:39:07 <frosch123> but i did not get it :p
21:39:51 <frosch123> 6/8 vehicles can match a tile, be 2/8 short of a tile or 2/8 longer than a tile
21:40:01 <frosch123> there are only three options
21:40:26 <andythenorth_> 12/8 is 1.5 o_O
21:41:15 <frosch123> hint: any 16-multiple of a wagon will always fit a whole tile :p
21:41:33 <frosch123> for the rest you need the greates-common-divider of train length and 16
21:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> greater fun if length is a prime number ;)
21:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... i have a train deadlock in cities skylines
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21:54:38 <andythenorth_> ach so 12/8 is 0.75 :p
21:54:47 <andythenorth_> silly andythenorth
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