IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-07-02
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00:40:44 <supermop_home> made running cost variable
00:40:59 <supermop_home> higher when driving than stopped
00:41:22 <supermop_home> I guess the buy menu should give the driving cost?
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02:12:07 <supermop_home> hmm doesn't work
02:12:32 <supermop_home> even with default: (the higher cost)
02:12:53 <supermop_home> because I guess a truck you have not yet bought is going 0 kph
02:37:38 <Eddi|zuHause> reading things like speed will be invalid in the purchase menu
02:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can usually set a different callback for the purchase menu
02:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> as in running_cost and running_cost_purchase
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02:44:13 <nekomaster> so I cant log in to Bananas
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08:53:13 <andythenorth> the final 10% of FIRS 3
08:53:18 <andythenorth> 90% of the effort :P
09:01:47 <Alberth> it's not so much that it's a lot of work, but more the idea that it's still not done, I hope
09:06:07 <andythenorth> also, the bits I don’t want to do get left until the end
09:15:25 <Alberth> yep, logical behavior, but perhaps sub-optimal :)
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15:39:01 <frosch123> whenever i get a new os, it takes some days to get used to new fonts
16:05:18 <frosch123> i also got more vram, so i can play f as it is intended now
16:05:58 <frosch123> doesn't results in more copper though
16:13:47 <Alberth> only more shiny copper :p
16:15:17 <LordAro> construct additional pylons
16:15:37 <frosch123> i only build overlords
16:23:00 <frosch123> i actually wore a sc shirt at the f party, but noone seemed to have recognised it
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19:22:59 <andythenorth> such absence of FIRS 3 feedback :)
19:23:05 <andythenorth> OpenTTD is dying
19:23:24 <frosch123> i saw the icons in the logs
19:23:38 <andythenorth> needs some pixels
19:26:53 <andythenorth> frosch123: the map colours…the clash with height levels might be worth scripting out
19:27:02 <andythenorth> or I could do it manually
19:27:18 <frosch123> didn't we already do that? :p
19:27:36 <andythenorth> Alberth thought not
19:27:57 <frosch123> many colours, no light green, no dark green, no violet
19:28:45 <frosch123> the first greenish colour is at position 37
19:33:46 <andythenorth> I can’t find any greens that directly match map height colours
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19:54:10 <Alberth> oh, blue water colour too
19:54:32 <frosch123> yes, blue water is intentioanlly not excluded
19:54:37 <frosch123> it's fine for land industries
19:54:53 <frosch123> one probably should use green for water industires :)
20:01:21 <trainman1432> Is it healthy to not sleep for one night?
20:01:36 <trainman1432> well I mean is it gonna harm you a lot
20:01:52 <trainman1432> Im looking thro this and I actually don't feel well
20:02:12 <andythenorth> trainman1432: you’ll _probably_ live
20:02:16 <andythenorth> nothing is certain of course :)
20:02:42 <andythenorth> but I have worked 36 hours straight without sleep, twice
20:04:12 <trainman1432> I hope I dont at least get sick
20:04:50 <frosch123> apparently the record is at 265 hours awake
20:04:58 <frosch123> i would not recommend that
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20:15:58 * LordAro pokes Alberth & frosch123 about his patch
20:16:16 <andythenorth> I am unsure what to do about map colours
20:16:32 <andythenorth> easiest is to allow the current assignment (automatically, by industry ID)
20:16:46 <andythenorth> next option is to manually assign some colours, and auto-assign the rest
20:16:58 <andythenorth> one problem is economies
20:17:16 <frosch123> i would put them into groups manually
20:17:19 <frosch123> water, land, harbor
20:17:25 <Alberth> persuade frosch to take out some more colours :p
20:17:33 <andythenorth> the idea of maximising difference is a bit shot by economies
20:17:44 <andythenorth> unless industry colours aren’t stable across economies
20:17:49 <andythenorth> which is…possible, but weird
20:18:07 <andythenorth> steeltown is mostly red-orange-yellow currently
20:18:44 <andythenorth> I wondered about a primary sort on count of economies industry is used in
20:18:51 <Alberth> LordAro: yep, that crosses my mind too, every now and then
20:31:26 <Alberth> ok, busy now, but made a copy to my local machine, so I can find it easily, it's huge though
20:47:48 <Wolf01> What about outline industries?
20:58:01 <LordAro> Alberth: indeed it is :>
20:58:05 <LordAro> it's all fairly samey though
20:58:12 <LordAro> largely find & replace
21:11:46 <Alberth> doesn't help in review, in fact, quite the opposite, it's more boring to review
21:34:08 <andythenorth> maybe I manually assign colours, in order, from the list
21:34:23 <andythenorth> I like that there’s no rationale currently
21:34:35 <andythenorth> i.e. coal mine doesn’t have to be black to match coal, etc
21:34:44 <andythenorth> because that’s unsustainable :P
21:35:15 <frosch123> i like your idea of sorting industry by number of economies
21:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> here's what i think you should do: you should partition the industries in sets that are never in the same economy, and then assign a colour to each set
21:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the sorting by number of economies should help with that
21:38:06 <Wolf01> I think I'll see the bed really early this evening
21:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so a "greedy" algorithm would be: 1: sort by economies, 2: pick the most used industry, loop over the rest of the industries, and join with the first one that is not conflicting. 3: if you reach the end of the list, start a new set, and start over with the first industry that is not yet in a set
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21:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> should be like 5 lines of python for that
21:55:05 <andythenorth> I wonder if reducing the set of available colours would be wise
21:55:37 <andythenorth> even with the algorithm, there are inevitable perceptual overlaps further down the list
21:56:16 <frosch123> yep, you likele won't find more than 20 colours when excluding all of green and half of violet
21:57:38 <andythenorth> the current list gives 187?
21:58:00 <frosch123> the list gives all colours except the excluded ones and the animation colours
21:58:23 <frosch123> doesn't mean any colours past the first 30 are any good :p
21:58:30 * andythenorth wonders if the map colour is a newgrf global var :P
21:58:50 <frosch123> nope, there are no client-side variables
21:59:11 <andythenorth> such multi-player :P
21:59:16 <frosch123> certain grfs trained some desync-paranoia :)
22:02:21 <andythenorth> max industry count is 51 currently
22:02:32 <andythenorth> that is honestly daft, but there we go :P
22:03:34 <andythenorth> say I am using the ID, and I want to have a range of 32 colours
22:03:38 <andythenorth> repeating where necessary
22:04:07 <frosch123> possibly, you could also use random with some fixed seed
22:04:24 <andythenorth> I just wanted a quick hack initially
22:04:32 <andythenorth> to see what extreme looks like
22:04:49 <andythenorth> with 60% repetition
22:12:08 <andythenorth> modulo is so spooky
22:12:17 * andythenorth has no idea how that works, it’s like magic
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22:15:05 <frosch123> it's like only taking the last digit of a number
22:15:39 <andythenorth> it’s not so spooky :)
22:16:58 <andythenorth> simply repeating automated colours is…BAD
22:17:19 <andythenorth> repetition is fine on a map, but not for industries adjacent in same chain
22:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> >>> i={1:{1,2,3}, 2:{1,3}, 3: {2}, 4: {1,2}}
22:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> >>> partition(i)
22:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> [{2, 3}, {4}, {1}]
22:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> additional magic might be required to not shuffle things around for existing industries if you add new industries
22:21:48 <andythenorth> does map colour need to be stable?
22:22:04 <andythenorth> I know lots of them by sight, but is it significant?
22:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> not necessarily "need", but might be helpful
22:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like i've seen that before
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22:39:43 <andythenorth> sorry, bedtime here :)
22:41:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I’ll leave the paste open for tomorrow or so
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23:05:03 <Wolf01> 40 minutes of sleep, ready for 3 hours of play
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