IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-03-20
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00:04:30 <peter1138> I think that just searches out in every direction and stops at the first depot.
00:05:10 <peter1138> Well no, pathfinding.
00:06:18 <Samu> found it, line 141 ship_cmd.cpp
00:06:37 <peter1138> I was talking about RVs :p
00:06:52 <peter1138> There's no searching for ship depots, but you know that.
00:07:55 <peter1138> Probably similar code would work for ships but it would also be expensive.
00:08:27 <peter1138> (Although if you laid out a grid of roads, that would probably be similarly bad)
00:12:02 <glx> no because roads have only 4 directions
00:13:31 <Samu> or, actually 12, i dunno
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00:14:14 <glx> no it's a little different than rail
00:14:45 <glx> all directions cross in the middle of water tile
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00:15:31 <Samu> then it's 6, in 2 directions, 12?
00:17:54 <glx> NE-SW, N-S, NW-SE, W-E in 2 directions
00:19:38 <Samu> N-S left, N-S right, W-E upper, W-E bottom, don't they count?
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00:32:33 <Samu> and i think road vehicles also have 12 directions~
00:34:44 <glx> I think you're right about ships (after reading the code), but roads vehicle definitely have only 4 directions because there are no diagonal roads :)
00:35:55 <Samu> coming from SW there's 3 possible exits
00:37:59 <glx> road tile at worst is like a water tile, but it's very rare compared to water pathfinding
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01:33:29 <supermop_home> is it possible to have catenary draw poles ever 2nd tile instead of every tile?
01:58:10 <supermop_home> i mean I know it is, but can't figure out in nml documentation how to do it
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09:04:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27809 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 09:04:47 +0100 )
09:04:57 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Improve check in UpdateLevelCrossing
09:04:58 <DorpsGek> In UpdateLevelCrossing, checking if a level crossing is reserved is
09:04:59 <DorpsGek> cheaper than finding trains on it or approaching it, so do it first. (cirdan)
10:01:00 <Samu> lol, when i was working with a variable, i came up with a st2 name
10:02:08 <Samu> Slope st2 = GetTileSlope(t2, &heightt2);Slope st2 = GetTileSlope(t2, &ht2);
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10:27:59 <Samu> how do i convert a DiagDir into a Slope?
10:30:37 * crem has no idea what DiagDir or Slope is.
10:31:52 <Samu> i guess Inclined(Slope) will do
10:33:31 <Samu> InclinedSlope(DiagdirBetweenTiles(begin, t2)
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11:03:27 <crem> I've just seen ad of youtube on youtube!
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11:13:40 <peter1138> apparently there's some guy called peter north
11:19:30 <Samu> i can't make rivers flow the way I want :(
11:21:13 <Samu> still stuck on breadth first search
11:23:00 <Samu> now i made rivers not able to flow down a slope :( gah
11:24:34 <Samu> i think i'm doing this check in the wrong place
11:25:51 <Samu> i want rivers to Flow down on slopes like they're locks
12:05:05 <Samu> it's something, but insuficient
12:06:20 * andythenorth would like FIRS forest to just be….better
12:14:24 <Wolf01> Why is geometry so shitty? I need to fit an octagon in a bigger square with squares, triangles, and rectangles
12:42:52 <andythenorth> cut it out on paper
12:42:59 <andythenorth> primary school style, tesselation
12:48:45 <Wolf01> Eh... I need to work with some sqrt(2)
12:55:55 <crem> √2 is not the worst number.
12:58:37 <andythenorth> so what is wrong with FIRS forest then?
12:58:52 <Sova> It's an old nick from primary school
12:59:12 <crem> But does it mean owl in srbska?
12:59:44 <crem> Ok. So it is in belarusian. And russian.
13:00:03 <Sova> I assume so. Our languages are pretty similar.
13:00:35 <peter1138> Ooh, article 50 on Wednesday.
13:00:40 <peter1138> Who's up for an assassination attempt?
13:05:03 <andythenorth> peter1138: your career as a fifth columnist will be short-lived :P
13:05:10 <andythenorth> it’s now obvious who you work for
13:07:48 <crem> In isometric projection games, how 2d array of cells is usually stored, what is rows and what is columns? Should a person tilt his head 45 degrees right or left?
13:10:15 <andythenorth> x goes to the left and y goes to the right
13:11:21 <crem> "row" should go from top to bottm, and "col" from left to right, after tilting head. The question is whether head should be tilted left or right. For me, tilting right feels more natural.
13:12:57 <andythenorth> openttd does it left
13:13:02 <andythenorth> at least for newgrf co-ords
13:13:20 <andythenorth> it’s a -30 degree rotation or so, I think
13:13:29 <andythenorth> peter1138 probably knows better than me :P
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13:15:51 <peter1138> But columns are top to bottom, and rows are left to right.
13:16:25 <peter1138> And anyway, it's a flat array.
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14:40:51 <supermop> can i put a pylon in the center of a tile?
14:59:00 <supermop> bad news for spaced out catenary pylons means gondolas are going to look stupid if implemented as trams
15:04:28 <andythenorth> they won’t work as trams anyway
15:04:35 <andythenorth> not well enough to justify the effort
15:04:51 <supermop> i just want them to look neat
15:05:00 <andythenorth> shame we can’t blat a few more transport types into the map :P
15:05:15 <andythenorth> ropeways / gondolas, pipes, belts
15:06:09 * andythenorth thinks ‘excessive transport types’ is just what the game needs :)
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15:25:39 <supermop> le isn't spanish after all
15:26:03 <supermop> well bolivian gondola metro one way or the other
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15:28:26 <supermop> 1 man on foot, capacity 1 bag of mail or 1000 head of livestock
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16:52:33 <Samu> my work so far on friendly river gen
16:52:59 <crem> What is a friendly river?
16:53:56 <andythenorth> it brings you tea
16:54:05 <Samu> rivers that makes placing locks easy
16:54:57 <Samu> and it only works for ships that can make 90 degrees
16:55:22 <Samu> it would require more space if 90 degrees are forbidden, i doubt many rivers would be generated
16:56:08 <Wolf01> We voted for removing locks, so it shouldn't be a problem :P
16:56:19 <peter1138> Eh, ships should be able to stop & turn on the spot.
16:58:55 <andythenorth> forbidding 90’ turns for ships is a joke setting :)
16:59:02 <andythenorth> apologies to whoever coded that ;)
16:59:40 <Samu> the water connection is really really ugly
16:59:53 <Samu> not sure how i can improve it
17:12:07 <andythenorth> now we just need things ships can crash into
17:35:56 <andythenorth> child #1 found it weird that ships overlap
17:36:10 <andythenorth> he set a bunch going at same time with depot green flag
17:36:21 <andythenorth> didn’t understand where they had gone
17:36:34 <andythenorth> personally I like our infinite ship capacity :P
17:40:25 <Samu> friendly rivers, do you notice anything strange?
17:40:42 <Samu> not connected, but connectable without terraforming
17:42:14 <Samu> meh, i guess it's hard to visualize it
17:45:39 <Samu> same image, now with locks
17:45:51 <Samu> no terraforming was necessary
17:46:24 <andythenorth> rivers are different in each image
17:46:34 <andythenorth> is that actual code, or are you mocking up your goal? :)
17:46:47 <Samu> code produces first image
17:47:05 <andythenorth> it makes rivers a waste of time, most of the time :)
17:47:25 <Samu> then i built locks and canals to show you that it's not needed to terraform to connect rivers with locks and canals
17:47:37 <Samu> that was part of the objective
17:48:15 <andythenorth> ah, your canals look like rivers to me, so I was confused ;)
17:48:22 <andythenorth> I have different sprites
17:50:03 <Samu> the other goal was indeed to avoid having to build canal tiles
17:50:37 <Samu> all that the player had to do was just place the locks
17:50:51 <Samu> but i don't know how to do that :(
17:51:25 <Samu> the way I have it, is terribly ugly
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17:52:47 <andythenorth> you’re forbidding turns preceeding a slope?
17:56:50 <Samu> hmm no, how do i do that
17:58:30 <Samu> let me copy paste my code again
18:00:39 <Samu> i got a lot of // lines to disable the 2nd part of the code, the part which would connect to would-be locks
18:01:01 <andythenorth> “What are the best grfs?”……. “mine” :P
18:01:05 * andythenorth won’t post that :)
18:01:18 <andythenorth> people don’t know when I’m joking
18:06:16 <andythenorth> where is pikka then?
18:06:48 <Samu> how do i forbid turns preceeding a slope? :)
18:07:00 <andythenorth> Samu I have NFI :)
18:07:18 <Samu> i dont think i'm doing that
18:07:24 <andythenorth> the pathfinder presumably pre-computes the path before building any tile?
18:07:28 <Samu> i check the slopes directly
18:08:07 <andythenorth> I like your approach to trying to fix this, I hadn’t considered this idea
18:08:13 <andythenorth> however, 1 tile docks would also solve it :P
18:08:33 <andythenorth> your idea doesn’t mean bumping savegame, nor changing baseset sprites
18:12:41 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: someone was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 22 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
18:13:23 <andythenorth> not generating crap rivers is better than changing other things to fit the crap rivers
18:14:38 * andythenorth has no idea how pathfinder works
18:14:44 <andythenorth> does it have conditions?
18:14:55 <andythenorth> the train pathfinder has weightings for various conditions
18:15:23 <andythenorth> maybe the pathfinder can dump some weighting to 0% or 100% or whatever
18:15:31 <andythenorth> if it finds a slope after a corner
18:16:09 <andythenorth> or set a flag after a corner, so that if next tile is slope, it abandons that path
18:16:50 <andythenorth> needs a programmer, not a devloloper like me :
18:17:02 <andythenorth> I can’t even type emoticons properly :P
18:17:40 <Samu> the only pathfinder part I'm modifying is /* AyStar callback when an route has been found. */ static void River_FoundEndNode(AyStar *aystar, OpenListNode *current)
18:18:42 <Samu> oh and... another about neighbours, but that's via FlowsDown
18:19:37 <Samu> i still don't understand how it decides which direction to take, i don't know how to follow that code
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18:23:13 <andythenorth> it’s following a direction to the end node, right?
18:23:19 <andythenorth> diagonal, not manhattan
18:24:09 <andythenorth> dunno what INVALID_TRACKDIR is doing
18:24:14 <andythenorth> I suspect that needs to be known
18:25:00 <Samu> a tile can be connected from 4 directions
18:25:41 <andythenorth> oh FlowRiver recurses
18:25:52 <andythenorth> recursive functions always boggle my mind
18:26:25 <Samu> yes, each time it finds a slope, it re-does FlowRiver
18:27:34 <Samu> it keeps doing this until it finds water
18:27:54 <Samu> usually sea water, but can also be water from other rivers
18:27:54 <andythenorth> or it builds a lake if it can’t go downhill
18:40:44 <Samu> i think i got a problem calculating distance from edge, gah...
18:44:05 <Samu> DistanceFromEdge(tile - delta) <= 1 || blabla || DistanceFromEdge(tile - 2 * delta) <= 1 || more bla bla || DistanceFromEdge(tile - 3 * delta) <= 1
18:44:20 <Samu> yep, it's wrong, just fixed it
18:44:42 <Samu> i had it like DistanceFromEdge(tile - 2 * delta + TileOffsByDiagDir(ChangeDiagDir(dir, DIAGDIRDIFF_90RIGHT))) <= 1
18:44:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27810 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 18:44:37 +0100 )
18:44:48 <DorpsGek> -Change: Factor out reservation-handling code in station_cmd.cpp
18:44:49 <DorpsGek> Code dealing with freeing and restoring track reservations is
18:44:50 <DorpsGek> duplicated in CmdBuildRailStation and RemoveFromRailBaseStation;
18:44:51 <DorpsGek> make separate functions for it. (cirdan)
18:48:58 <peter1138> Good ol' 6 year old patches...
18:49:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27811 /trunk/src (train.h train_cmd.cpp) (2017-03-20 18:49:44 +0100 )
18:49:54 <DorpsGek> -Change: Remove unused parameters in FreeTrainTrackReservation
18:49:55 <DorpsGek> FreeTrainTrackReservation is always called with INVALID_TILE
18:49:56 <DorpsGek> and INVALID_TRACKDIR as second and third arguments, so remove
18:49:57 <DorpsGek> them and just use those constants instead. (cirdan)
18:50:19 <Samu> who's cirdan? he must be an expert
18:51:12 <peter1138> Compared to, say, you.
18:57:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27812 trunk/src/elrail.cpp (2017-03-20 18:57:24 +0100 )
18:57:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Road tunnel/bridge heads have no trackbits wrt catenary drawing
18:57:34 <DorpsGek> Road tunnels and bridges do not have any rail, so do not treat them
18:57:35 <DorpsGek> as if they had when drawing a catenary. (cirdan)
19:14:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27813 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 19:14:22 +0100 )
19:14:32 <DorpsGek> -Change: Remove _road_enter_dir_to_reachable_trackdirs
19:14:33 <DorpsGek> _road_enter_dir_to_reachable_trackdirs was just a copy of
19:14:34 <DorpsGek> DiagdirReachesTrackdirs. (cirdan)
19:16:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27814 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 19:16:23 +0100 )
19:16:32 <DorpsGek> -Change: Remove _roadveh_depot_exit_trackdir
19:16:33 <DorpsGek> _roadveh_depot_exit_trackdir was just a copy of
19:16:34 <DorpsGek> DiagDirToDiagTrackdir. (cirdan)
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19:43:18 <andythenorth> peter1138: were those cirdan commits from fs? Or somewhere else?
19:43:30 * andythenorth wonders if cirdan should be told
19:43:52 <andythenorth> eh, maybe he reads the ottd commit log
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27815 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2017-03-20 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> russian: 7 changes by Lone_Wolf
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19:50:14 <peter1138> Probably, he merges bits occasionally.
20:02:22 <frosch123> so, noone complained in two months that my nml binary does not work?
20:07:45 <andythenorth> supermop: how do you build Unspooled?
20:17:16 <andythenorth> I watched it multiple times :P
20:20:33 <frosch123> shell history is awesome
20:20:58 <frosch123> i wouldn't know how to compile nml for windows, if not by looking into the shell history
20:22:42 <andythenorth> I should find where mine is logged
20:22:47 <andythenorth> it must be logged somewhere :P
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20:26:26 <frosch123> andythenorth: can you please replace the link with one to nml-nrt-8f4bb3d0-win32.zip
20:26:35 <frosch123> i also pulled before rebuild
20:26:57 <frosch123> or should i not include the version in the url?
20:27:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: please replace it with nml-nrt-latest-win32.zip
20:30:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27816 /trunk/src (3 files) (2017-03-20 20:30:49 +0100 )
20:30:55 <frosch123> let's see whether it works this time :p
20:30:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6421]: Do not search directories when opening ini files as we already have their full path.
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20:55:23 <supermop> andythenorth: just nmlc on a usb drive
21:05:06 <supermop> i dont understand how to set up anything more sophisticated than that
21:08:16 <andythenorth> you’re on windows?
21:33:32 <argoneus> good evening train friends
21:59:25 <andythenorth> why are forests crap?
21:59:30 <andythenorth> and what can I do about it?
21:59:34 <peter1138> Because bears shit in them.
21:59:44 <andythenorth> that’s what I should add
22:01:39 <peter1138> Hmm, is there something that prefers placing towns next to water?
22:02:08 <peter1138> Or is that just a side effect of towns being placed away from other towns.
22:02:36 <andythenorth> I thought there was a thing that tried not to put them next to water
22:02:56 * andythenorth might be having alt-memories
22:03:22 <andythenorth> hmm default game forest has 9 trees per tile
22:03:40 <frosch123> peter1138: coast is preferred
22:03:56 <frosch123> whenever the random tile ends up within wate, it looks for the nearest land tile
22:04:07 <frosch123> in total that makes coast more likely
22:04:19 <frosch123> 's an intentional feature from a few years ago)
22:04:46 <andythenorth> someone made some forest grf or objects
22:08:41 <supermop> i like mcz's logging camp, except lately i the maps i play never can place it
22:09:12 <supermop> because those trails require a huge flat area
22:09:23 <andythenorth> they look like they can handle slopes
22:09:54 <supermop> whenever i play i get the 'cant find a place for ' warning at game start
22:09:57 <andythenorth> bigger landing area? cutting areas? trails?
22:10:00 * andythenorth is looking for ideas
22:10:21 <andythenorth> FIRS forest (1) looks boring to provide service to (2) is hard to see if trees are enabled
22:10:41 <andythenorth> (3) is hard to see if transparency is on (4) has no animation of any kind
22:11:26 <andythenorth> (5) bare land under trees looks crappy
22:11:37 <Wolf01> Work at minecarts with supermop
22:12:07 <frosch123> didn't some grf use 2/3 grass under trees?
22:12:10 <frosch123> i thought that was firs
22:12:43 <supermop> bigger areas would be ok except would be really hard to place
22:12:43 <frosch123> possibly ogfx+industries
22:13:23 <andythenorth> the ‘grass grows back’ tile?
22:14:07 <peter1138> Ah, my ships are breaking down :S
22:14:15 <peter1138> I got 15 years into a game then decided I didn't like the map...
22:14:36 <supermop> re implement grass as a tree
22:15:03 <andythenorth> peter1138: that’s standard operating procedure :)
22:15:21 <andythenorth> I get a few towns and industries connected, then something is just blearch :)
22:16:14 <supermop> thats why i play 64 or 128 usually now
22:16:38 <supermop> no desire to play longer than 20 years
22:18:00 <peter1138> I wanted more water. 70% now.
22:18:17 <peter1138> (Hence lots of coastal towns)
22:18:38 <andythenorth> I want a forest that looks industrialised
22:18:44 <andythenorth> none of this rural stuff
22:19:25 <peter1138> strict rows of trees
22:19:33 <peter1138> logging tracks through it all
22:19:55 <supermop> well you could have a copse like in tto with stumps
22:20:06 <peter1138> Basically draw a mini Spintires.
22:20:08 <frosch123> hmm, i cannot find the grf where the forest looked like that
22:20:40 <peter1138> Hmm, nah, that just had gaps.
22:20:44 <supermop> non- mountainous managed forests here typically have all trees on a 12' or 20' square grid
22:20:55 <supermop> with roads every few 100 feet
22:29:04 <andythenorth> one of them had animation for trees being cut, either default or PBI
22:34:07 <peter1138> Oh dear. I think I spent too much money.
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22:38:58 <Samu> darn, i missed 3 locks in that image
22:39:19 <Samu> or whatever, my english fails
22:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> ao, looka likw i'm going to eindhoven tomorrow (business trip)
22:45:19 <peter1138> To get a new keyboard?
22:45:30 <supermop> for some reason i thought Eddi|zuHause was an academic
22:45:49 <peter1138> Cos he never seems to do anything?
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22:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm afraid a dutch keyboard will make it even worse :p
23:24:59 <supermop> Samu: i cannot spot any missing locks in the image
23:35:46 <supermop> your caption says you forgot some, but i dont see any slopes without locks
23:51:33 <peter1138> Hmm, can pools have classes and inheritance and stuff?
23:52:12 <peter1138> For docks, using RoadStop feels wrong, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel.
23:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i think all pool members must have the same size
23:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have subclasses, but they can't have new members
23:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how virtual functions play into this
continue to next day ⏵
