IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-03-10
⏴ go to previous day
00:35:46 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd
00:54:12 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
01:03:02 <Wolf01> I'll be at Model Expo Italy until monday ;) (lego.. lego everywhere)
01:42:48 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
01:49:11 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
01:54:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd
01:54:53 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd
02:39:52 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
03:12:44 <supermop> hmm apparently my win 10 command prompt cant cd\ to my usb stick
03:13:26 <supermop> so much for carrying my newgrf development workspace back and forth seamlessly
04:59:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
05:00:48 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
06:02:06 *** Montana has joined #openttd
07:13:32 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd
07:40:00 *** Keridos has joined #openttd
08:35:17 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:12:06 <ZirconiumX> I really don't understand why my bus stop code isn't working. Oh well.
09:15:53 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
09:50:37 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
10:08:00 *** Maarten has joined #openttd
10:26:33 <Samu> question, when i cross a tram piece with a rail piece, a road piece is also built. Is that intended or a bug?
10:28:21 <ZirconiumX> Samu: trains cross with road only.
10:28:36 <ZirconiumX> So you end up building your tram along a road
10:32:22 <crem> Crossing of tram and railway are prohibited in most countries. (there are exceptions though).
10:32:43 <crem> So I'd suggest prohibiting that in opentt
10:37:05 <ZirconiumX> Run the tram line along the train line.
10:41:04 <Samu> feels like something's not right
10:46:54 <Samu> I was actually working on forbidding rails crossing trams, but i was first investigating how it was working currently
10:47:24 <Samu> was also working on forbidding rails crossing roads too
10:48:55 <Samu> just wanted to create a game setting to forbid level crossings between train and road vehicles
10:52:08 <Samu> a tile with rail, road and tram
10:52:15 <Samu> if i try to remove rail, I can
10:52:22 <Samu> if i try to remove tram, I can
10:52:27 <Samu> if i try to remove road, I can't
10:54:05 *** Supercheese has left #openttd
10:55:17 <Samu> and if i remove the tram, the road stays
10:56:02 <Samu> like some sort of limitation in openttd
11:12:23 *** supermop has joined #openttd
11:43:31 <Samu> road crossings only store 2 owners?
11:46:10 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
11:52:13 <Samu> the owner of the tile becomes the owner of the rail
11:52:33 <Samu> it really stores the 3 owners
11:53:21 <Samu> the tile is of type road, though
12:07:47 <Samu> /* Always add road to the roadtypes (can't draw without it) */
12:09:06 <Samu> openttd or missing graphics
12:10:25 <peter1138> There's no graphic for level crossing without road.
12:37:57 <ZirconiumX> So you add a road as a compromise?
12:49:36 <peter1138> Back when it was done, I suppose so.
12:51:18 <ZirconiumX> Out of curiosity, what base graphics set does everyone use?
12:53:17 <ZirconiumX> Yeah, I think I prefer the original set to be honest.
12:53:44 <ZirconiumX> OpenGFX seems too dark and somewhat cartoony.
14:31:32 <Samu> when building a road, it still stores the tram owner even if there is no trams available
15:40:55 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC
15:41:56 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:41:56 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
15:41:56 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd
15:41:56 *** fiatjaf has joined #openttd
15:41:56 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd
15:41:56 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** supermop has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** Maarten has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** innocenat has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** Guest75 has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** greeter has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** davidstrauss has joined #openttd
15:41:59 *** weber.oftc.net sets mode: +v tokai
15:42:03 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** Extrems has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** argoneus_ has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** goodger has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** blathijs has joined #openttd
15:42:03 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
15:43:15 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
15:50:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v orudge
16:03:57 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd
16:08:01 <supermop_> so docklands now has parameters to choose depot style
16:08:13 <supermop_> whether or not it should is a different question
16:23:59 <supermop_> in testing it i noticed some errors in trolleybi so will try to fix those now
16:24:19 <supermop_> also trollybi are mostly worthless when playing with road hog
16:25:47 <supermop_> the low capacity and difficultly of building the electric road make them only really useful on town outskirts or connecting small villages
16:26:09 <Alberth> you should say "the trollybi and road hog are not well-balanced"
16:26:44 <supermop_> balancing is difficult and maybe not worth it
16:27:03 <Alberth> but trollybi can go where road hogs can't go?
16:27:05 <supermop_> they are designed to be slightly OP compared to regular ogfx buses
16:27:20 <supermop_> but those are also pretty weak
16:27:47 <supermop_> and ogfx is not particularly interesting to test with NRT
16:27:50 <Alberth> I pretty much never play with RVs
16:28:27 <supermop_> the problem is that a trolleybus can go fewer places than a bus or a tram
16:28:48 <supermop_> because electrifying town roads means destroying them
16:31:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:36:18 <supermop_> Alberth: its all academic though, as trolleybi just means to show that a trolleybus is possible - it doesn't need to be a good trolleybus
16:36:42 <supermop_> they are not particularly well drawn either
16:37:06 <andythenorth> reports that OpenTTD builds on OS X Sierra....
16:37:10 <andythenorth> ….were premature
16:38:57 <Alberth> indeed supermop_, most important part is that the vehicle exists at all
16:40:23 <andythenorth> I have used without-lzma and without-liblzo2 configure flags
16:40:32 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
16:40:37 <andythenorth> as they aren’t available, or can’t be found in the path
16:42:23 <andythenorth> on the positive side, all the pythons appear to build on this new computer
16:43:58 <Alberth> so you'd need to build the libraries from source then?
16:44:14 <Alberth> pythons became any quicker?
16:47:00 * andythenorth tries building FIRS
16:47:43 <andythenorth> hmm must be failing
16:47:54 <andythenorth> reports a build in 30s, which took 1m 20s on old computer
16:50:43 <Alberth> :o almost 3 times as fast :)
16:52:37 <andythenorth> it’s much faster when the makefile ignores substantial errors :)
16:52:44 <andythenorth> like the non-existence of nml in the path :P
16:58:52 <andythenorth> the new computer is substantially slower than the old one
16:59:09 <andythenorth> that is unsurprising but unwelcome
17:01:14 <andythenorth> 2013 i7 2.8Ghz vs 2016 i7 3.3Ghz
17:01:25 <andythenorth> the older i7 is faster
17:05:22 <Alberth> maybe it's running "economic mode" or so? reducing its own clock-speed
17:06:02 <Alberth> longer battery life, etc etc
17:07:40 <andythenorth> maybe it’s error between keyboard and chair :P
17:08:01 * andythenorth had a substantial framework install running at the same time, with make etc
17:08:07 <andythenorth> still, the new one is slower
17:08:18 <andythenorth> maybe it has worse single-threaded performance
17:11:31 <Alberth> clock-speed tends to contradict that, unless your memory is slower or something
17:15:43 <andythenorth> it could be performance throttling for thermal reasons
17:15:58 <andythenorth> the OS changed too, so maybe python just got a lot worse on this OS
17:16:48 <Alberth> python doesn't do much OS, unless you do
17:17:07 <Alberth> but file handling isn't likely to be changed much
17:17:32 <Alberth> running installs could hog the disk, slowing things down, though
17:17:59 <Alberth> I notice that too when I run a disk->disk backup copy of all my data
17:18:30 <Samu> is this clear enough english?
17:18:32 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_LEVEL_CROSSINGS_HELPTEXT :Allow company construction of level crossings between rail and road.
17:18:57 <Samu> there is a similar named setting for town level crossings
17:19:08 <Samu> but i want them to behave separately
17:20:15 <andythenorth> ok so there’s some indexing stuff running as this computer is new
17:20:16 <Alberth> I'd add COMPANY in there somewhere, in the name, I think
17:20:26 <andythenorth> that’s 100% of one thread unit gone :P
17:20:49 <Alberth> thread is fine, but it's also accessing disk like crazy :p
17:21:25 <Samu> that's actually a good idea, chaning name
17:21:30 <Alberth> My OS had something like that too, I said "fine, just don't do /home :)
17:22:09 <Alberth> cured all performance problems with indexers :p
17:23:14 <Alberth> Samu: well, apparently you have a TOWN level crossing setting too, and it makes sense to express that difference in the name of the string
17:24:49 <ZirconiumX> I don't understand this :(
17:24:55 <ZirconiumX> Trying to build a bus stop
17:24:59 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_COMPANY_LEVEL_CROSSINGS :Companies are allowed to build level crossings: {STRING2}
17:25:06 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_COMPANY_LEVEL_CROSSINGS_HELPTEXT :Enabling this setting allows companies to build level crossings
17:25:24 <Samu> basically copy paste, just replaced town to company
17:26:21 *** supermop has joined #openttd
17:26:59 <Samu> this is all grouped so weird in the ini file
17:27:19 <Samu> i'm putting this new setting into construction category
17:27:33 <Samu> but the town version is on economy category
17:27:49 <Alberth> settings are weird anyway
17:29:51 <Samu> muahaha, no moar trains crushing road vehicles
17:32:25 <Alberth> not having RVs solves that problem nicely too :p
17:34:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:39:44 <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.allow_company_level_crossing) {
17:42:11 <Samu> i'm a bit worried about towns expanding, must make sure everything is working as it should
17:47:10 <Samu> i never know where in the afterload do i put IsSavegameVersionBefore
17:48:38 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:48:38 <ZirconiumX> I need to work on my bus stop building algorithm
17:48:44 <ZirconiumX> Dear god these look ugly
17:51:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:53:55 <Alberth> Samu: after all the other conversions, unless you want to deal with all changes ever done of the thing you're changing
17:55:02 <Samu> there's the "station acceptance is some kind of cache" that doesn't follow that logic
17:55:17 <Samu> and then I'm always unsure if i put after this one, or before this one
17:57:10 <ZirconiumX> Well, this is...Better?
17:58:09 <ZirconiumX> I still need some way of trying to connect this to my network though
17:59:33 <ZirconiumX> It connects perfectly to the town centre tile
17:59:52 <Samu> road depot is a road tile
18:02:48 <ZirconiumX> Check the orientation, though.
18:02:55 <ZirconiumX> It's not going through the road depot
18:06:34 <Samu> I wanna list this setting in the gui, unsure which category
18:08:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:08:22 <andythenorth> I had a sort of Obiwan in my timings
18:08:32 <andythenorth> the old computer was 2m 20s, not 1m 20s :P
18:08:41 <andythenorth> definitely a keyboard-chair error
18:11:54 *** supermop has joined #openttd
18:13:42 <Samu> I'm gonna put it into Company category, it's the first of its kind that looks like a Limitation
18:14:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:14:36 <andythenorth> 1m 50s on the new one
18:15:28 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.848484848485
18:15:42 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.423076923077
18:16:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.733333333333
18:16:25 <andythenorth> speed up is more than clock speed
18:16:38 <andythenorth> 2 generations if i7 and a painfully fast SSD :P
18:18:01 <Alberth> do you still have a disk-cache? doesn't make much sense with an ssd, perhaps
18:18:17 <Samu> limitations->Add(new SettingEntry("construction.allow_company_level_crossing"));
18:18:24 <Samu> screw it, just added it to Limitations
18:18:41 <andythenorth> I don’t think there’s any cache on the actual disk
18:18:55 <Alberth> likely BSD solved that a long time ago :)
18:19:44 <andythenorth> this disk is fast enough that it hits the end of the bar on the speed tester :P
18:20:18 <Alberth> now you only need a file with useful data that big :p
18:21:00 <Alberth> my first HD did around 40MB/s
18:21:13 <Alberth> it also was 40MB in size :p
18:21:58 <andythenorth> but can I get ottd to compile? :P
18:25:25 <andythenorth> I changed nothing :P
18:30:25 <Alberth> but with old config, without lzma etc?
18:31:37 <Samu> I'm orange, rail is mine too, and i receive that error
18:32:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: I ran ./configure with no flags, and it built
18:33:00 <andythenorth> does configure reset flags if they’re not specified?
18:33:03 <andythenorth> or do they persist?
18:33:30 <ZirconiumX> Samu: "Can't build road here: You cannot build level crossings."
18:33:54 <ZirconiumX> "Can't build road here: Level crossings are disabled."
18:34:21 <Samu> there are rail types that actually display that error
18:34:38 <Samu> level crossings are disabled for this rail type
18:34:47 <ZirconiumX> I think "must remove rail first" would confuse people who accidentally set that settings
18:34:54 <Samu> but this error is not derived from the rail type, but a game setting
18:37:33 <Samu> i was hoping i could avoid creating new strings :(
18:38:26 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd
18:39:00 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd
18:49:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:49:58 <V453000> went a bit insane with wacom :D
18:52:21 <andythenorth> V453000: pipes disappearing into ground was my favourite tactic of 2016
18:52:38 <andythenorth> also andycat is configuring new computer and not happy
18:53:02 <andythenorth> first Mac I’ve ever owned that feels like nobody really cared when designing
18:53:23 <V453000> got a macbook for wife last week
18:53:37 <andythenorth> the low-powered one with the clicky keys?
18:53:52 <V453000> low powered one, she dont need power
18:54:05 <Samu> if (ret.Failed() && (road_owner != OWNER_NONE || road_owner != OWNER_TOWN)) { return ret; } else { return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_MUST_REMOVE_ROAD_FIRST);
18:54:09 * andythenorth considering buying wife one
18:54:15 <andythenorth> netflix doesn’t need much power
18:54:21 <andythenorth> is it retina screen though?
18:55:11 <andythenorth> looks shiny, but expensive
18:55:51 <V453000> not cheap yeah, but if it lasts, it's worth it
18:56:10 <andythenorth> my wife is using one from about 2011 or so
18:56:15 <andythenorth> maybe older even
18:56:17 <V453000> wife loves it so far, I want to see how it performs over years
18:56:49 <andythenorth> I have only just replaced a 2013 one, and that was because I dropped it :P
18:56:58 <V453000> I used it for about 2 hours and I am quite convinced that it's good
18:57:10 <andythenorth> I have the clicky keys now, it’s loud
18:59:51 <Samu> oops, it's not ||, it's &&
19:01:14 <V453000> lest see :) I will stay on wonde
19:01:44 <andythenorth> just install windows
19:01:55 <andythenorth> but then you might as well buy the HP thing
19:03:06 <Samu> if (ret.Failed() && road_owner < MAX_COMPANIES) { return ret; } else { return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_MUST_REMOVE_ROAD_FIRST); }
19:03:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:03:53 <V453000> im fine with workstation desktops, and for travelling the mobilestudio pro from wacom is amazing for what I need
19:07:26 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
19:10:59 <Samu> building roads over rails in the scenario editor is one of those special rare cases...
19:11:18 <Samu> it builds as either OWNER_TOWN or OWNER_NONE
19:15:12 <Samu> ugh... scenario editor... everything works so randomly
19:15:23 <Samu> i cannot remove rail tracks, but i can remove rail bridges
19:18:06 <Samu> looks like the error i'm looking for is "... area is owned by another company"
19:18:55 <supermop__> i go to lunch - get disappointing burrito
19:19:13 <supermop__> wife goes to lunch - runs into malia obama
19:19:42 <supermop__> why can't any obamas eat at the crappy chipotle i always end up eating at
19:20:39 <__ln__> hmm, chipotle, one of the places i didn't try although i kind of planned to
19:21:58 <supermop__> i guess it is pretty representative of generic american lunch
19:22:23 <supermop__> if you are trying to get the experience of mundane american life
19:22:38 <supermop__> don't get me wrong - i like it -
19:22:57 <__ln__> another place i didn't try was applebee's
19:23:09 <supermop__> but it's not a special experience, and sometimes i wish i didn't eat like 60 meals a year there
19:23:18 <supermop__> better of not having gone to applebees
19:23:40 <supermop__> i mean idk, were you in america doing an anthropological study of suburbs?
19:25:12 <supermop__> V453000: idk how to best use surface+pen for PS work
19:25:16 <__ln__> not per se, but it's nice to visit restaurants that you've seen on tv series, but which do not exist in europe
19:25:24 <supermop__> maybe it was bad choice for that use
19:25:55 <V453000> no touch for painting
19:26:06 <V453000> is why the hardware keys are excellent
19:26:25 <supermop__> maybe it is bc i never used pen until this year so i don't understand how to best use it yet
19:26:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:26:33 <__ln__> i did go to ihop and wendy's and taco bell. well okay, taco bell exists in europe, but just barely.
19:31:00 <V453000> depends on your usecase I guess :)
19:32:55 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:34:09 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:34:32 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
19:40:46 <supermop_> V453000: it's unclear what the usecase is for that computer, and i dont have a pen for work computer so never learned how to use
19:41:55 <supermop_> idk why interior designers dont use pen for PS as we use it mostly for touching up photos and renderings
19:53:58 <supermop_> i think because the bosses are so stingy
19:54:11 <supermop_> only the graphic designers get tablets
20:02:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:04:10 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
20:07:25 <andythenorth> so why does it compile then? :P
20:13:11 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
20:13:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:14:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: snail was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 21 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Snail> it did give me a zillion of warning messages, but the game seems to work fine
20:14:17 <andythenorth> I hate non-reproducibility :x
20:14:42 <andythenorth> I am not blanking this computer just to test OS X compile again though
20:16:43 <supermop_> buy yet another computer?
20:18:33 <andythenorth> I could install the OS on an external drive
20:23:40 *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:39:28 <supermop_> hmm need to draw more trolley trucks
21:07:29 <andythenorth> new photoshop :P
21:08:22 <Samu> i wonder what the AIs will behave with it
21:09:43 <Samu> ChooChoo will no longer cross roads with rail, muahahaahh, let's see what happens
21:22:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
21:22:47 <Samu> Wormnest: nice that I find u
21:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the real question is why trump has not tweeted to stop that to strenthen the car industry
21:27:06 <Wormnest> I guess like all vehicles AI vehicles will try to find another route to their destination
21:27:54 <Wormnest> If you mean if AI would notice and adapt to it probably not
21:28:23 <Wormnest> except to take action when too many vehicles are loosing money
21:29:09 <Samu> I mean construction of a road over rail disablement
21:30:14 <Samu> edited topic for clarity
21:32:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:33:28 <Samu> Companies are allowed to build level crossings
21:33:50 <Samu> I'm experimenting with Chochoo
21:34:24 <Samu> gah, i hate this CPU evaluator
21:34:38 <Samu> I hope it doesn't make it to 1.7
21:34:58 <Wormnest> Well most AI trying to find a new route will go back a few steps and try again if building doesnt work
21:35:29 <ZirconiumX> Is there any way to increase the frequency of subsidies?
21:36:56 <Samu> interesting, choochoo builds bridges over roads
21:37:50 <Samu> nice Wormnest, seems that this might not break that many AIs
21:38:31 <Samu> if i'm not mistaken, choochoo never builds bridges over roads
21:39:23 <Samu> I mean, if the road is perpendicular to the track that it's attempting to build, right?
21:40:20 <Wormnest> I´m not an expert on the inner workings of choochoo can´t help you there
21:40:55 <Samu> CPU evaluator breaking ChooChoo again, pff, i can't test this on latest trunk, this evaluator ruins more than it fixes
21:44:19 * andythenorth got the game music back
21:44:22 <andythenorth> was missing for years
22:14:54 <supermop_> i'm listening to the SNES Hook soundtrack here
22:17:14 <andythenorth> some SNES games are available on Wii
22:17:22 * andythenorth got original mario kart
22:17:31 <andythenorth> which is as hard as I remember
22:19:36 <supermop_> andythenorth: snes mario kart is brutal
22:21:23 <supermop_> also most snes games i had
22:21:52 <supermop_> used to rent super strike eagle and never could land back on the carrier so never passed first mission
22:22:25 <supermop_> why an F-15E was landing on a carrier was glossed over for gameplay's sake
22:23:04 <supermop_> original pilotwings also impossible
22:23:56 <andythenorth> was that the flying one where you could have a hang glider or such?
22:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a console
22:24:50 <supermop_> the hang glider missions were the worst
22:25:47 * andythenorth reading about Mode 7
22:26:12 <supermop_> NotMode7 patch for parallax in OpenTTD?
22:26:32 <andythenorth> transforms were fascinating to me in engineering maths
22:27:18 <andythenorth> I can’t use them, my maths is too weak, but they’re very interesting
22:54:52 *** Maarten has joined #openttd
22:57:13 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
22:59:42 <Samu> should towns be able to build bridges over rails?
23:00:41 <Samu> currently, if they're not allowed to build level crossings, they won't expand to the other side
23:29:02 <Samu> Wormnest: how do you deal with roads with your trains?
23:31:44 <Samu> so far, only OtviAI behaves erratic
23:32:08 <Samu> but there are so many road AIs to test :(
23:33:25 <Wormnest> Samu: No idea haven´t looked at it in half a year I would have to look but too tired tonight
23:34:00 <Wormnest> except that I probably try to avoid them
23:34:20 <Wormnest> and build a bridge if I can´t find a better spot
23:37:16 <Samu> I'm quite impressed with what I achieved
23:37:33 <Samu> no single vehicle crashing
23:37:58 <Samu> and 14 AIs fighting each other
23:38:26 <Samu> it used to be a road vehicle crash-fest
23:39:00 <ST2> yeah, that was my old world too ^^
23:39:13 <ST2> but with human players xD
23:39:45 <Samu> hi st2, i guess you're aware by now, I created a patch about rail/road crossings too
23:40:37 <Samu> any improvements needed?
23:40:40 <ST2> I tried same approach 1st too - ofc, only worked if server and client had same patch
continue to next day ⏵
