IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-03-09
⏴ go to previous day
00:07:28 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
00:11:32 <Samu> how many owners can there be on your roads
00:11:56 <supermop_> tram can be owned by someone different though
00:12:15 <Samu> i'd like road pieces to have different owners
00:12:46 <supermop_> tile wont fit it per the NRT spec
00:13:10 <supermop_> that is actually what prevented anyone getting anywhere on roadtypes for a decade
00:13:24 <supermop_> how to handle the shared ownership of the tile
00:14:08 <supermop_> because tram, and possibly a rail crossing can also have different owners from the road
00:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that a problem?
00:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> road tiles can have 3 owners
00:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> one for the road, one for the tram, and one for the rail or station
00:16:03 <Samu> but that is for the entire road, not each individual piece of road
00:18:04 <supermop_> there needed to be a compromise on how many new bits of the road tile would go toward what i assume, and different types or owners per road quarter were assumed to be a reasonable thing to compromise
00:22:18 <Samu> i guess the same could be done with trains
00:22:51 <Samu> 6 rail tracks per tile? 6 owners
00:23:57 <Samu> 4 road pieces + 4 tram pieces? 8 owners
00:25:42 <Samu> +1 rail piece when doing level crossing = 9 owners, yay
00:27:16 <Samu> oh, wait, not needed 9 owners when there's a level crissing
00:27:50 <Samu> 2 road pices + 2 tram pieces + 1 rail = 5 owners
00:30:21 <supermop_> currently you cant even have two types of rail for parallel _ or | track
00:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want different owners for each roadbit, that would mean you potentially need to store 8 owners
00:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but i still don't see why that would stop roadtypes from being implemented
00:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's completely separate
00:39:10 <Samu> 40 bits needed to store 8 owners
00:40:11 <Samu> there's 17 bits free... rip 8 owners idea
01:14:18 <Samu> there is a bug in acceleration with trains
01:14:37 <Samu> they go faster on bridges
01:14:59 <Samu> ST2: were you aware of this?
01:59:38 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
04:59:00 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
04:59:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
06:42:21 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
08:17:09 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:25:00 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd
09:14:16 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
09:45:45 *** Markk_ is now known as Markk
09:55:23 *** Extrems` has joined #openttd
09:55:31 *** Extrems` is now known as Extrems
10:04:32 *** ZirconiumY has joined #openttd
10:14:29 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
12:04:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd
12:04:44 <ZirconiumX> Well I can now build roads and depots.
12:04:56 <ZirconiumX> Bus routes are going to be a pain.
13:06:45 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd
14:39:47 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:00:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
15:18:11 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
15:33:40 <supermop> i must be doing it wrong, because adding all these parameters and switches for depot styles in docklands has like doubled the length of the code
15:34:51 <Wolf01> IMO you should just do what please yourself
15:36:04 <Wolf01> Most of the flags won't be used by 99% of the players, just the one which selects CHIPS or ISR could be needed
15:36:31 <supermop> you are probably right
15:37:37 <supermop> i mean clearly all 4 road types using the same depot is kind of lame, but just simply providing a different depot with each one would still give most users all the flexibility they need
15:44:30 <supermop> i adding spool style wires to docklands is going to add even more lines
15:51:38 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
15:55:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:03:52 <supermop_> i wont add a parameter for wires though
16:16:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
16:16:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:12:33 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC
17:45:05 <ZirconiumX> NoAI folks: Does AIDepotList.AIDepotList() return a list of tile IDs, or something else?
17:46:27 <ZirconiumX> I've read the docs
17:46:36 <ZirconiumX> "Creates a list of the locations of the depots (and hangars) of which you are the owner."
17:46:48 <ZirconiumX> Are these locations tile IDs, or something else?
17:47:36 <Alberth> that's the only form of locations in the program :)
17:50:44 <ZirconiumX> So I could check if a tile is within a town by using AITown.IsWithinTownInfluence, right?
17:51:03 <ZirconiumX> (In case you're wondering, I'm trying to make sure I don't build tons of depots in the same town)
17:54:36 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:56:35 <Samu> I'm starting to understand how widgets are dealt with
17:57:00 <ZirconiumX> That's a good start
17:57:22 <Samu> how to throw commands around, apparently the holy grail function is OnInvalidateData
17:58:20 <Samu> then i got 1 place, only 1 place that Stops the Transparency
17:58:41 <Samu> much better than what I was doing yesterday
18:18:20 <Alberth> "town influence " is bigger than purely town (ie houses), but it looks like a correct function
18:19:29 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:27:14 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:27:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:29:23 <andythenorth> so…touch bar support in openttd? o_O
19:29:36 <ZirconiumX> Sure, go ahead and write it
19:32:00 <Wolf01> OTTD buttons are ugly and not in line with Apple standards
19:37:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I’d just do words :P
19:37:40 <LordAro> well that's inconvenient
19:38:02 <frosch123> what was the actual clang warning?
19:39:45 <supermop_> andythenorth: then i want surface pen support
19:40:25 <supermop_> must have offended him
19:40:41 <Wolf01> I already play with pen :P
19:42:52 <LordAro> frosch123: hang on, lemme recompile
19:43:05 <LordAro> /home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/core/smallstack_type.hpp:221:27: warning: instantiation of variable 'SmallStack<unsigned short, unsigned short, 65535, 8, 65533>::_pool' required here, but no
19:43:09 <LordAro> definition is available [-Wundefined-var-template]
19:44:08 <supermop_> i need more practice then
19:44:31 <LordAro> frosch123: maybe my extra line needs to be in the cpp file?
19:44:36 <LordAro> odd that it works for me though
19:45:40 <frosch123> diffferent compilers :)
19:47:45 <LordAro> also, 4.9? ancient :p
19:49:13 <frosch123> ottd compile farm may be way more ancient
19:50:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
19:51:58 <LordAro> ah, same error with gcc 6.3
19:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remember that time when we supported gcc 2.ancient?
19:53:51 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:55:44 <LordAro> frosch123: that said, i'm not entirely sure how aircraft_cmd & station have got caught up in this
19:57:08 <frosch123> i think they are just the first one
19:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: your error kinda sounds like a wrong include
19:57:31 <frosch123> SmallStack is only used in typedef StationIDStack, which is defined in station_type.h
19:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: might be a problem with your library, not the compiler
19:59:05 <ZirconiumX> Is there any way to speed up the frequency of subsidies?
19:59:14 <ZirconiumX> Other than hitting fast forward
19:59:18 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: library? what?
19:59:37 <ZirconiumX> LordAro: Clang uses libc++, right?
19:59:43 <ZirconiumX> Rather than libstdc++
19:59:44 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: not by default
20:00:02 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: not sure how a template instatiation has anything to do with the library
20:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i've no idea either
20:01:02 <LordAro> but anyway, there's no differences between them unless being explicitly told
20:03:30 <ZirconiumX> Bugs are so much fun
20:03:46 <ZirconiumX> (It's facing the road)
20:09:10 <Samu> i got a problem yet with one of the stop transparency
20:09:21 <Samu> oninvalidate is being called twice
20:12:47 <Samu> SetObjectToPlace is calling w->OnPlaceObjectAbort();
20:20:04 <LordAro> frosch123: i've got no idea what's going on :/
20:20:31 <frosch123> i think the typedef is interpreted as a template specialisation
20:20:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
20:20:50 <frosch123> but well, i guess we keep the clang warnings :)
20:21:37 <Samu> i think i figured it out, just checking
20:31:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:34:57 *** supermop has joined #openttd
20:41:25 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:41:56 <andythenorth> supermop_: I have a force-touch trackpad also :P
20:42:16 <andythenorth> so if I press softly, I want narrow gauge tracks
20:42:23 <andythenorth> and if I press harder, I get wider tracks :P
20:44:35 <supermop> what if you press too hard? canal?
20:45:55 <ZirconiumX> Canal would be funny
20:50:13 <andythenorth> ah the enduring appeal of wetrail :P
20:51:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:56:06 <Samu> Alberth: i need help, can't do this alone, i'm almost there, but not quite
20:56:47 <Samu> problem is, i'm stopping transparency twice
20:57:20 <Samu> there are some OnInvalidateData being called multiple times, i dunno what to do
21:01:36 <Samu> one example is when I head to max vehicle ships
21:02:04 <supermop> i can't decide if i prefer the coal mine colored coalmine building of firs, or it's cc variant in chips
21:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> two of them. one pretty wet...
21:02:50 <supermop> i mean obviously i prefer the mine variant, but doesn't do much for showing who owns it
21:03:20 <Samu> if i change the number of ships, regardless if to 0 or not, and i have any of the widget lowered, Stop Transparency can be called twice :(
21:05:08 <andythenorth> supermop: flip a coin
21:05:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: try the microwave
21:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: neither is this maniac mansion, nor a hamster
21:06:03 <supermop> andythenorth: unlikely. i already have the tan mine one modified with big door and correct shading for \
21:06:22 <supermop> in case you want one for mine layout vareity
21:07:12 <andythenorth> also have you got a repo yet? o_O
21:14:50 <supermop> no, not bothering yet with an version control, pnml, or other best practices
21:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> is that related to pig in a blanket?
21:20:09 <supermop> anyway, thats for docklands, so it's intended to look more like a building that might be on the grounds of a mine complex than a shop that fixes trucks
21:20:33 <supermop> want 1-2 more firs style buildings
21:20:56 <supermop> might use the open sided iron roofed shed that lives at some industries
21:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i meant "pic in a second" -> "pig in a blanket"
21:24:34 <Samu> apparently i only shifted the problem
21:26:06 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest719
21:26:06 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
21:40:22 <andythenorth> computer migration time :P
21:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you pick it up and put it somewhere else?
21:40:57 <andythenorth> I pick up the old one, move it to one side
21:41:03 <andythenorth> put the new one in its place :P
21:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking of getting a new one with ryzen
21:42:25 <andythenorth> usually I migrate everything, $HOME, the apps, the ports tree etc, with rsync equivalent
21:42:41 <andythenorth> after > 15 years of that, I’m doing this one from scratch :P
21:42:45 <andythenorth> time for ‘fresh'
21:42:53 <andythenorth> regret will follow :P
21:43:04 <supermop> andythenorth: nothing from my vaio is on the surface
21:43:23 <andythenorth> maybe I should use Ansible, and make my system trivially redeployable
21:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried a fresh install a while ago. didn't really help
21:43:40 <supermop> the stuff i thought i'd want is on a usb drive, but never got around to using it
21:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean fresh os on the same computer
21:44:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what didn’t it help? o_O
21:44:56 <andythenorth> I think my current $HOME dates back to OS X public beta :P
21:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause> just all the annoying bugs were replaced by other annoying bugs
21:45:22 <andythenorth> I am mostly hoping that python 2.7 will build :P
21:45:34 <andythenorth> it’s inconvenient that it won't
21:45:53 <andythenorth> why replacing my entire OS and $HOME should fix setuptools failures, I don’t know
21:46:01 <andythenorth> but eh, apparently that’s the required solution
21:51:34 <andythenorth> are python globals a thing, or best just avoided?
21:52:13 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
21:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> global variables should be avoided
21:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause> python or not...
21:53:05 <andythenorth> that rule has never failed me yet
21:53:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: have you ever encountered the problems with globals?
21:54:04 <andythenorth> or is the rule enough?
21:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had problems where i needed to turn globals into other things
21:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> when you want to reuse a thing in some more varying contexts
22:00:17 <andythenorth> in current context, my problem is globals
22:00:41 <andythenorth> so replacing them with globals is some fallacy
22:00:51 <andythenorth> probably has a name and a wikipedia page that fallacy
22:02:49 <frosch123> call them singletons instead of globals
22:02:58 <frosch123> that sounds way more fancy
22:04:45 <andythenorth> I could declare them as classes with just one value
22:05:07 <andythenorth> and some horrible way to return that
22:08:10 <supermop> i am just i am doing these build date dependent depots wrong , but
22:09:54 <supermop> if the last date range ends at 2099 (nrt specs say this is as far as range for build date variable goes)
22:10:18 <supermop> and i build a depot in 2100, what does it look like?
22:10:36 <andythenorth> well, new computer can’t use full animation in ottd either
22:10:55 <frosch123> supermop: why 2099?
22:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there should be a "long date" property
22:11:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there is only a long date variable
22:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> then there probably isn't a 2100 limit
22:13:17 <supermop> there isn't a mention in your NRT page,
22:13:37 <frosch123> where does it say 2099 or 2100?
22:14:14 <frosch123> that is stations, not depots
22:14:14 <supermop> that isnt nrt but i assumed it would work the same way
22:14:42 <supermop> well regardless, is there a way i can leave the range in the switch open ended?
22:15:08 <andythenorth> I use max game date for that
22:15:13 <supermop> or what is the biggest year
22:15:15 <frosch123> supermop: 0xFFFFFFFF is the max value
22:22:17 <supermop> date(0000,01,01)..date(5000001,01,01): chips_road_depot_4;
22:22:30 <supermop> thats all of time for openttd right?
22:23:44 <frosch123> yeah, but you can also just write "0" for the first date
22:24:29 <frosch123> also i am not sure whether we start in year 0 or year 1
22:25:46 <frosch123> though that is no valid gregorian date iirc
22:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> there exists a "backdated gregorian calendar with year 0"
22:35:02 <supermop> can Openttd have different calendars alike currencies?
22:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that the silly monks in the 4th century didn't know a 0
22:36:03 <andythenorth> openttd handles the year that gained or lost a day?
22:36:08 * andythenorth has vague recollection :P
22:38:38 <Supercheese> monks were probably too focused on beer to bother with silly zeroes
22:40:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that 1 CE is precreeded by 1 BCE
22:40:46 <frosch123> there is no 0 CE or 0 BCE
22:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but that would only become relevant if we had negative dates
22:42:11 <Wolf01> Remove the "date" and use "played years" starting from 0 and just the season :P
22:42:45 <Wolf01> And break all the introduction dates :P
22:45:31 <andythenorth> and choose a tech ‘era'
22:45:43 <andythenorth> and then let GS choose to progress eras
22:45:48 <andythenorth> and offer no other mechanic
22:45:51 <andythenorth> so people have to write GS
22:46:23 <andythenorth> all vehicles for the era are available at start of era, with random offsets
22:46:33 <andythenorth> no other progression except the random
22:49:14 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
23:02:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
23:19:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
23:23:31 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
23:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: negative dates would only really change dates beyond 2500000. and offset all other dates by 1 year if you want to "fix" the year 0
continue to next day ⏵
