IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-25
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00:45:00 <supermop_> ok this templating isn't working
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04:40:56 <snadge> has anyone thought about adding the 2014 music support somehow?
04:41:35 <snadge> in 2014.. john broomhall re-recorded the music to transport tycoon deluxe, for the Android / iOS remake
04:41:47 <snadge> he used a real trumpet player, and saxophone player
04:42:10 <snadge> and allowed them to improvise.. basically just gave them artistic freedom and said, go for it
04:42:27 <snadge> the result is .. pretty cool
04:42:38 <supermop> yeah I've heard some of it
04:43:15 <snadge> i think he also might have played the keys.. i can hear some different effects and stuff as well
04:43:57 <snadge> so im thinking of buying the android version, and pulling apart the apk, because you can't buy the soundtrack.. which is pretty dumb
04:44:40 <snadge> so maybe we could patch the audio engine to be able to use the 2014 music, if you drop it in there, and select the option to use it
04:45:13 <snadge> i guess you can just play the youtube video in the background, and mute the music ;)
04:46:05 <supermop> well there are a few issues, but basically when transport tycoon was made in the early 90s, game music was basically midi or nothing
04:46:28 <snadge> right.. an mp3/ogg player would have to be patched into it
04:46:34 <supermop> so the game implemented it's own midi player
04:47:07 <snadge> the built in midi player is actually pretty good
04:47:35 <supermop> but now almost any computer playing the game will have other means to play music, and maybe even a better, dedicated means of playing midi music
04:48:16 <supermop> the game only really includes a midi player at all out of faithfulness for recreating the original game
04:48:44 <snadge> hmm.. i cant see the option to use the emulated midi
04:49:01 <snadge> i have mine redirected to a roland sound canvas 880 (external)
04:49:08 <snadge> and that sounds pretty sweet ;)
04:49:12 <supermop> I've never installed a base music set nor used the in game jukebox in the entire time I've used openttd
04:49:38 <snadge> its understandable, i mean.. if you're going to spend a significant amount of time in game
04:49:40 <snadge> it would drive you nuts
04:49:55 <snadge> i literally know every note to every single song
04:50:09 <supermop> if I listen to music why playing, it's always been some other source of music either on the computer or my stereo
04:50:17 <snadge> it plays in my head sometimes.. when im just doing every day things in life
04:50:53 <snadge> i haven't heard the openmsx version of the music.. it would probably offend me
04:51:23 <supermop> I don't think there is much need to bloat the game itself with a mp3 codec or whatever, as anyone would have other means to play the mp3s if they wanted
04:51:51 <supermop> openmsx is different music as it its all legally free
04:52:07 <supermop> public domain or newly created with an open license
04:52:35 <supermop> i've never listened to it myself,
04:52:36 <snadge> yeah but it probably wouldn't take much to add mp3/ogg support.. maybe a few hundred kb worth of dlls at the most
04:52:43 <snadge> then people would have an easier time of creating their own music sets
04:52:57 <snadge> but i dont know if there would be much call for it
04:53:04 <supermop> but why not just use whatever your favorite mp3 player is
04:53:18 <snadge> and turn the inbuild music off.. exactly
04:54:02 <supermop> unlike modern games where the music needs to relate to cut scenes or the action, the transport tycoon music just plays through like an album
04:54:33 <supermop> so there really is no need to have it playing in the game itself
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04:55:33 <supermop> also, even if mp3 support were added, the live transport tycoon music certainly could never be included
04:57:27 <snadge> no.. you would have to drop it in there like you currently have to anyway
04:57:32 <supermop> OpenTTD strives to be a legal, open source project, and the license of the music would preclude it
04:58:03 <snadge> i wonder how many people actually go to the trouble to use the original sounds/music/graphics.. since its not exactly straight forward.. i googled, and found a guide that told me which files etc
04:58:21 <snadge> of course from my licensed copy of ttd
04:58:45 <supermop> I only had TTO, not ttd, so I don't even own a copy
04:59:05 <snadge> so.. observation #1 .. the Pop preset on the sc880.. really brings life to the openmsx music track
04:59:05 <supermop> but I always play without music or soundeffects
04:59:14 <snadge> without soundeffects too? whut? :p
04:59:50 <supermop> level crossing bells get old after about the third time you hear them
05:01:13 <snadge> the open music is not as terrible as i was expecting
05:01:57 <snadge> it peeves me that the sound canvas doesn't automatically note off.. so if you interrupt the track.. some sounds just hang indefinitely
05:04:40 <snadge> its not just the crossing bells.. its the cows mooing etc as well
05:13:54 <supermop> i have no idea how these nml templates are supposed to work
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09:05:20 <Alberth> another issue with adding eg mp3, is that openttd is cross-platform, which means a lot of mp3 implementations are needed
09:05:54 <Alberth> note that afaik mp3 has its share of legal problems, so it's not really open
09:06:45 <Alberth> you'd be surprised on the number of people running the original graphics; the quality of those is a lot higher than opengfx
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09:43:19 <andythenorth_> bbl, phone irc :p
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11:26:28 <andythenorth> what shall I call it then?
11:26:33 <andythenorth> NotWaterFeatures?
11:27:07 <andythenorth> ^ Wolf01 thinking of starting a fork with experimental branches for docks, diagonal canals etc
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11:28:05 <Wolf01> Ok, "notsomething" could be our distinctive brand :P
11:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> too close to "nosomething"
11:29:55 <andythenorth> I can rename NotRoadTypes to NotSomething or NotStuff
11:30:16 <andythenorth> fork is overkill
11:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: definitely a new fork
11:30:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why? o_O
11:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have easier time merging the old fork
11:32:06 <andythenorth> it’s just git? o_O
11:32:17 <Alberth> yep, keeping separate things separate is easier
11:32:30 <andythenorth> if I rename it will break the git paths for people’s checkouts
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11:35:59 <Alberth> new fork ensures you're not using non-trunk stuff, since it's not there
11:36:52 <andythenorth> also reduces the temptation to merge lots of unrelated branches together ‘to see what happens’ :P
11:37:17 <Alberth> you can still do that, but not in a development branch
11:37:18 <andythenorth> it is github admin though, provisioning users etc
11:37:28 <Alberth> make a "merge all the things" branch :)
11:37:51 <andythenorth> making a whole new repo isn’t really how git development is supposed to work :)
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11:38:11 <andythenorth> sledgehammer, nut
11:38:12 <Alberth> new branch from master origin/master works too
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11:39:35 <Alberth> unmerging things you slapped together is stuff for nightmares :)
11:39:55 <Wolf01> Meh... VLC can't convert a video, I can't understand why
11:40:29 <andythenorth> branch revert is usually ok, with...caveats
11:40:51 <andythenorth> what’s the wish list for NotWater?
11:42:21 <Wolf01> It would be a nice thing to have the water levels
11:43:27 <andythenorth> - diagonal river and canal tiles?
11:44:19 <Wolf01> Non destroyable rivers
11:44:26 <andythenorth> - rivers that respawn when bulldozed?
11:44:40 <Alberth> why is water flooding useful?
11:44:44 <andythenorth> - or rivers that must remain connected (pathfinder) even if moved?
11:45:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: do the ideas, then the why later? o_O
11:45:18 <Wolf01> The flooding could be avoided at first step
11:45:18 <andythenorth> 50% of these are probably terrible terrible ideas :)
11:45:19 <Alberth> I'd start with non-destructible
11:45:37 <andythenorth> and 25% of ideas are probably at best ‘meh'
11:46:14 <andythenorth> multi-stop docks?
11:46:26 <Wolf01> These are really a killer feature
11:46:42 <andythenorth> limited ships per bouy?
11:47:24 <Alberth> not sure how feasible that is, you'd need some sort of reservation system so bouys don't get overrun
11:47:28 <andythenorth> ships which have a ‘size’ concept (occupy n slots per dock)?
11:47:53 <andythenorth> ship physics (engine hp, affects acceleration)
11:48:11 <andythenorth> ship physics: rivers have a flow direction, more powerful ships go faster upstream
11:48:45 <andythenorth> ship physics: hull drag coefficient
11:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: compose ship sprites of several smaller parts to avoid clipping
11:49:14 <Alberth> hull drag seems overkill, can't you do that with HP ?
11:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so they don't have one huge bounding box, but several smaller ones
11:49:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes, I was deliberately adding ideas that can be shot down :)
11:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hull drag might be relevant if you add moving water
11:49:54 <Wolf01> Btw, I would like to implement the idea of not having stations just for rails, a "build station" gui which allows to build a multi-tile station with the same graphics over road/rail as frosch proposed
11:50:08 <andythenorth> Wolf01: that’s Not NotWater
11:50:12 <andythenorth> that’s NotStations :)
11:50:27 <andythenorth> and yes, I was thinking about it
11:50:36 <andythenorth> non-routed station tiles / station objects
11:50:53 <Alberth> add some dock features, and you have nice non-stations :)
11:50:54 <andythenorth> with some UI to make them available trivially when building train / RV / airport / dock
11:51:38 <andythenorth> 2 tile or 1 tile locks
11:52:03 <Wolf01> Btw, for NotWater: articulated ships is a base requirement
11:53:07 <Alberth> throw some logs into the river :)
11:53:32 <andythenorth> you’d want them arbitrarily composable? Like trains?
11:53:36 <andythenorth> or like RVs, pre-built?
11:53:56 * andythenorth wondered about binning all ships and start again from scratch
11:54:05 <andythenorth> implementing them like trains, with defined routes that have to be built
11:54:34 <Alberth> I somewhat do that, by adding bouys
11:54:45 <andythenorth> I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea
11:54:49 <andythenorth> but worth considering
11:54:58 <andythenorth> no matter how much newgrf, ships are still quite lame
11:55:09 <Alberth> would give finer control over where ships go
11:55:32 <andythenorth> it’s a fork, so we don’t need to consider savegames :x
11:55:56 <andythenorth> or newgrf authors
11:56:16 <Alberth> it does need simple crossing though
11:56:37 <andythenorth> I have made 50% of the ship sets, more or less
11:56:46 <andythenorth> so we can break newgrf, right?
11:57:02 <Alberth> "extend" is the right word :p
11:57:30 <Alberth> openttd would remain compatible however, for old savegames
11:57:55 <Alberth> so maybe a combination of old and new?
11:57:57 <Wolf01> Ferry between 2 fixed points (like a bridge, better if diagonal too) could be considered as NotWater?
11:58:53 <Alberth> it does stuff with ships :)
11:59:02 <Alberth> oh, multi-cargo ships?
11:59:14 <Wolf01> It's a fake ship, more like a canal feature
12:00:02 <Wolf01> Isn't "goods" already a multi-cargo?
12:00:47 <Wolf01> Pax+mail could be good, but I don't think we'll ever see a oil+logs ship
12:01:32 <andythenorth> - multi-cargo ships
12:01:33 <Alberth> you could put the logs in the oil to save space!
12:01:46 <ZirconiumX> Or build the ship out of logs
12:08:21 <andythenorth> does the background / proposition sound about right?
12:08:55 <andythenorth> I could have put it in the wiki I guess
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12:09:23 <andythenorth> meta-critique :P
12:09:26 <andythenorth> what about the content? o_O
12:09:52 <Wolf01> I'll try an a* river feature for editor soon or later
12:14:56 <Alberth> Add an "idea" label to the issue :p
12:17:29 <Alberth> adding "moving" rivers need river direction, I think
12:17:44 <Alberth> as all rivers are connected through sea
12:18:52 <Alberth> also, what is the point of cb37 for building industries?
12:20:25 <Alberth> add dock stuff? or is that issue #2?
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13:26:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: issue #1 is overview and scope
13:26:31 <andythenorth> then I’ll link it to other issues
13:26:34 <andythenorth> it’s like a story ticket
13:26:41 <andythenorth> such project management :P
13:27:18 <Alberth> you should make tickable items - [ ] foo
13:27:44 <andythenorth> cb 37 when building - I assume it will show the subtype text in the ‘fund industry’ menu
13:28:26 <andythenorth> I think the originally intended subtype use there is highly misleading
13:28:46 <Alberth> but it doesn't make much sense, as there is no concrete cargo or so
13:28:46 <andythenorth> looks like an industry requiring ‘Food (bread)’ wouldn’t acccept ‘Food (cakes)'
13:29:09 <andythenorth> I wonder if it’s used by any grf
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14:13:26 <Wolf01> Btw, I like 3 tile locks, but they must be working realistically with ship that stops in the middle and raising/lowering the ship... better if only 1 at time
14:15:37 <frosch> locks do not make much sense, if you want to make rivers traversable
14:15:51 <frosch> locks would be something for more than 1 height level
14:17:27 <frosch> make locks 2-4 tile while requireing 2-4 height levels? while making ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance?
14:18:10 <Alberth> do ships fit in a lock?
14:18:47 <Wolf01> Articulated ships in a lock is not feasible
14:19:13 <Wolf01> Like an oil tanker in a lock
14:19:22 <Wolf01> specially for 1-2 tile lock
14:19:35 <frosch> same holds for rivers :)
14:19:47 <frosch> oil tankers also do not fit into rivers
14:20:03 <Wolf01> If one wants to build a "Panama channel" diorama, it should be possible
14:20:32 <frosch> maybe locks always have width 1 then?
14:20:36 <frosch> while canals can be broader?
14:23:07 <Wolf01> Canals should be broader, ships should collide, so if you want to have bidirectional canals you must have >=2 tiles
14:23:18 <andythenorth> I’ll put a sub-list
14:23:24 <andythenorth> and some of the ideas
14:23:46 <andythenorth> my objection is that rivers pretty much require locks
14:23:58 <andythenorth> and they’re rarely straight
14:24:03 <andythenorth> so most of my rivers end up as canals
14:24:06 <andythenorth> seems pointless :)
14:25:22 <frosch> Wolf01: btw. ttdp has that travel vertically in locks
14:25:33 <frosch> it does not look as well as it sounds
14:25:48 <Wolf01> I remember it, it needs proper animation
14:26:10 <frosch> problem with ships staying in place is that they overlap even more
14:26:33 <frosch> and you do not want to go down the eddi route :p
14:26:56 <Wolf01> Don't make ships overlap, that is :P
14:27:56 <andythenorth> in my last game I built all my canals as 2 tiles
14:28:03 <andythenorth> just to see the ships better
14:28:14 <andythenorth> they seem to neatly stick to one drive side
14:28:35 <Wolf01> I usually put buoys on locks entrances to force ships not using the same lock in different directions
14:30:11 <Alberth> andy, do you have a firs for extended cb37?
14:31:21 <frosch> andythenorth: btw. with "ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance" i mean "travel without lock"
14:31:42 <Alberth> playing dangerous, latest breaking trunk :)
14:33:44 <andythenorth> canals are uni-directional? o_O
14:34:00 <andythenorth> ships gain equivalent of reserved tiles?
14:34:11 <andythenorth> so no collisions, but they reserve x tiles
14:34:22 <andythenorth> if a ship can’t reserve any forward path, it’s deadlocked?
14:34:33 <Alberth> wouldn't just direction be enough
14:34:48 <Alberth> probably allowing perpendicular too
14:34:49 <andythenorth> considering alternatives :)
14:35:12 <Alberth> you definitely want to ships after each other
14:35:17 <andythenorth> each canal has two bi-directional lanes
14:35:24 <andythenorth> but larger ships reserve both :P
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15:34:18 <supermop> is it impossible to make a template for properties that all trucks of a generation share in regular nml?
15:36:04 <frosch> regular nml has templates only for spritelayouts
15:36:16 <frosch> s/spritelayouts/spritesets/
15:37:25 <supermop> well I already commented out my templates last night and added the stuff to each truck individually
15:37:47 <supermop> now apparently no sound is not a valid choice
15:38:04 <frosch> i also mute every game
15:38:14 <frosch> it's one of the downsides of factorio
15:38:22 <frosch> you can only turn down the volume, but not really mute
15:38:51 <frosch> haven't checked lately, but at some point it was impossible to disable the intro music
15:39:14 <frosch> but it is not that loud, so if my regular music is loud enough, it does not matter :)
15:41:03 <frosch> i hope V does not make the music of f, or he will be upset again :p
16:02:38 <supermop> nmlc complaind about line 177 "item"
16:03:02 <supermop> but not for line 102
16:10:26 <supermop> oh I miss a } before it
16:15:08 <supermop> now it saws 'unknown string'
16:17:28 <supermop> i have "name: string(STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS);"
16:18:22 <supermop> nmlc complains that "STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS" is an unknown string
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16:23:47 <supermop> what does unknown string mean? the string is defined exactly as that in the lng file
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16:24:29 <supermop> is "name:" the wrong way to use the string? I copied it from ogfx+
16:30:18 <andythenorth> paste the line of code
16:31:57 <supermop> in that paste it would be line 6
16:37:29 <supermop> STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS:Bufo Motive Works 'GP' Trolley Truck
16:40:48 <Alberth> line 3 looks a bit short?
16:43:54 <supermop> soooo I had been working in the lng file as a txt file then saving it to lng
16:43:56 <Alberth> ogf seems to have 3 arguments, no idea what the 3rd one means
16:44:17 <supermop> but the lng file was out of date and missed that string
16:45:38 <Alberth> some of the project names use "opengfx-" others use "ogfx-" as prefix
16:46:19 <Alberth> so for me, they all mean "opengfx" :)
16:54:19 <supermop> offsets need some work I guess
17:04:04 <Alberth> would increase traffic safety :)
17:08:15 <supermop> ok changing y offset did noting?
17:16:52 <Alberth> perhaps you changed bounding box ?
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17:18:41 <supermop> now the issue is, cannot string up wires over town owned roads
17:19:20 <supermop> meaning, paradoxically, it is much, much harder to build a trolley bus line in a city than a tram line
17:19:32 <supermop> as you have to destroy all the existing road first
17:25:17 <supermop> should I add some 2cc stripes before releasing?
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18:13:07 <Wolf01> Town roads should be upgradable to a compatible type
18:15:19 <Wolf01> I also always found annoying to not being able to make town roads one way
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18:18:15 <Wolf01> And if you are able to destroy the town road, place your own and make it one way, the limit should just be the local authority rating
18:23:43 <supermop> frosch and andythenorth too pls
18:23:58 <supermop> there are lame easter eggs
18:24:21 <Wolf01> I'll try it later, I'm dying of back pain and sleepness right now
18:33:31 <supermop> that does not sound fun
18:38:56 <supermop> ooooh I discovered a workaround
18:39:18 <supermop> build trolleybus stops on the town road then remove the stop
18:40:00 <supermop> only works on straight road but then you get town owned wires
18:42:23 * andythenorth is mostly afk :)
18:42:26 <andythenorth> but releases are good
18:42:43 <supermop> ok problem: can build trolleybuses in non electric depots
18:44:21 <supermop> property is "road_type: ELRD; "
18:44:32 <supermop> but it runs fine on regular road
18:45:06 <andythenorth> what’s ELRD defining?
18:46:20 <supermop> trolley grf doesn't define ELRD anywhere
18:49:53 <supermop> If I play a game without docklands, hence no ELRD, trolleybuses still available in ROAD depot
18:50:47 <andythenorth> does docklands define ELRD?
18:51:11 <supermop> but vehicles show up even without it
18:58:31 <frosch> ottd knows about ELRD by default
18:59:26 <frosch> there is a blank at the start of your grf's name btw :)
18:59:33 <supermop> but I set the road_type to ELRD, but they seem to still be ROAD vehicles
18:59:34 <frosch> don't put spaces after the ":" in the lng files
19:00:24 <frosch> can you paste your source somewhere?
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19:02:18 <supermop> ignore the common properties part that's commented out
19:03:55 <frosch> i see, we made nml<->ottd slightly inconsistent
19:04:03 <frosch> you need a roadttype_translationtable
19:04:32 <frosch> i guess this should be fixed in nml
19:04:58 <supermop> what does that table do/ do you have an example?
19:05:31 <frosch> add "roadtypetable { ROAD, ELRD }" at the top, after grf {}
19:05:38 <frosch> (i believe that is the syntax)
19:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it matches whatever roadtypes you use in the grf to the ones that are actually defined in the game
19:06:06 <supermop> just that would fix it?
19:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because you can't assume that the types are always there, or defined in the same order
19:06:20 <frosch> yes, as a work around, but we should fix nml to make it also work without :)
19:06:50 <frosch> the thing is that nml knows about default road and railtypes
19:07:20 <frosch> but ottd actually does not accept default-roadtypes unless explicitly defined, to make old rv/tram sets compatible
19:07:37 <frosch> but ottd behaves differently for roadtypes vs. railtypes
19:14:00 <supermop> ok works as expected now
19:14:47 <frosch> i pushed a fix to nml, though in this case "fix" means that it would not compile the grf without the roadtypetable
19:15:12 <frosch> so, no advantage in upgrading for you :)
19:16:49 <supermop> as is trolley buses can go to drive in stops
19:17:16 <supermop> but open to differing opinions
19:17:56 <supermop> they can also overtake each other, which is unrealistic, but I want them to be able to pass regular trucks, which is realistic
19:18:16 <supermop> and major advantage irl vs. trams
19:20:49 <supermop> is it possible to make a dual mode truck that can drive on ROAD, but has more power on ELRD?
19:21:38 <frosch> set the property to ROAD
19:22:04 <frosch> and add a "power" case to the "graphics" section, which goes to a switch, which checks "current_roadtype"
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19:41:59 <supermop> I might add a new generation but have the same time scale
19:42:25 <frosch> thanks as well :) good that someone uses it
19:44:30 <supermop> well now we can test things like how to electrify town roads
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27748 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-02-25 19:45:38 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> polish: 1 change by wojteks86
20:02:31 <andythenorth> supermop: I am probably going to do trolley-assist mining trucks
20:02:44 <andythenorth> it’s completely stupid for gameplay, but I don’t think I’ll be able to resist :P
20:03:10 <andythenorth> I did same with an engine in IH; bad ideas that we do ‘because we can’ :D
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20:17:01 <Wolf01> Also the ETF one, maybe a consist of them in HAUL :D
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21:01:23 * andythenorth considers a micro economy
21:02:53 <andythenorth> dragline -> primary crusher -> final crusher -> bulk ore terminal
21:03:10 <andythenorth> would need a tailored base set for the landscape though eh :P
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21:43:42 <Wolf01> Seem that V is into mining too
22:31:02 <supermop_home> the trolley/panto Tonka trucks look BA
22:33:30 <supermop_home> :( no downloads yet
22:37:00 <supermop_home> ok whats the greater priority now, given that I personally cannot fix the ELRL on town roads issue? more generic non-electric trams? road grf with dirt roads?
22:37:47 <supermop_home> andythenorth: bucket ropeway as roadtype?
22:38:59 <frosch> supermop_home: forum download counter has been broken for years
22:40:03 <supermop_home> i hope the truck names are neither offensive nor too verbose
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22:47:21 <supermop_home> hmm on 20 tile test track, higher top speed of default truck wins over higher hp of trolleytruck
22:48:16 <supermop_home> no hills. next ill add more stops
22:49:07 <supermop_home> oh accel was on original
22:52:55 <supermop_home> ok now with a hill climb straight up 10 height levels
22:53:07 <supermop_home> wish we had regenerative brakeing
22:54:48 <supermop_home> hmm the trolley truck looks much faster on the hill but its only a 2 day difference on timetable
22:54:58 <supermop_home> maybe it needs even more power
22:55:44 <supermop_home> regular is 223 hp for 12t, trolley is 700 for 10t
22:56:57 <supermop_home> the effect is much more noticeable on stop and start traffic than even on steep hill climbs
23:02:59 <supermop_home> frosch is it possible to have a running cost switch for decelerating ?
23:03:49 <andythenorth> do both trucks weigh the same?
23:04:08 <supermop_home> and even more exotic: vehicle is already at top speed but gravity wants it to accelerate
23:04:22 <supermop_home> andythenorth: trolley truck 2 tons lighter
23:04:41 <frosch> supermop_home: i think some ukrs version had that
23:04:57 <frosch> but generally that is kind of pointless micro management
23:05:10 <supermop_home> watching this truck run downhill I want some of that free electricity back
23:05:13 <frosch> unless you play like rondje, every truck will go as much uphill as downhill
23:05:23 <frosch> so jsut pick an average running cost in the first place
23:06:12 <supermop_home> what if it goes downhill with full load, and uphill empty? I should be selling the extra electricity back to the power company
23:07:06 <supermop_home> then at night time when the power is cheap we drive all of the load back up the mountain to repeat tomorrow :)
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continue to next day ⏵
