IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-22
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10:44:41 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, huge civilization bundle, I'm too old for that
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13:49:37 <Wolf01> So it actually generate the resulting image?
13:50:40 <Wolf01> Or it just matches the best image containing the input elements?
13:51:46 <andythenorth> dunno :) download it and read the code? o_O
13:51:54 * andythenorth just drew silly doodles with it
13:52:17 <Wolf01> I wouldn't understand a bit of it
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13:55:21 <Wolf01> Imagine the possibilities, you put in a boxed models png for a trainset and it changes them to slugs
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16:56:58 <Wolf01> Meh, I think I'll get disconnected soon, my ISP has problems again :|
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17:56:19 <supermop> not sure what to do next for docklands
17:56:28 <supermop> not sure if it really needs anything else
17:56:41 <supermop> i guess level crossings need work
18:52:53 <Number> hello, is there any way to unlock all of the airports at any date?
18:55:10 <Alberth> yes, write a newgrf overriding the airport appearance dates
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19:04:49 <andythenorth> use opengfx+ airports
19:04:58 <andythenorth> it has a parameter to remove dates
19:05:03 <andythenorth> dunno if that solves it for you
19:05:59 <planetmaker> ^^ I was about to look that up... forgot what I did there :D
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19:13:09 <Number> im surprised that basicaly nothing exists on the subject when i googled it
19:15:34 <Number> should i edit in a section about it on the wiki?
19:21:08 <planetmaker> as you unsuccessfully looked for that: it obviously would help. So, yes, please
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19:46:28 <frosch123> so, andy is now training pix2pix?
20:06:57 <supermop> ogfx+rvs have a surprisingly late introduction of the first tram
20:16:09 <frosch123> something that is turned into an nml file by using the cpp macro processor
20:16:39 <frosch123> it's mainly used to be able to #include stuff and share some #define ids
20:19:29 <supermop> so can i make a tiny nml file for each of many vehicles and combine them later, rather than have a clumsily long text file?
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20:20:28 <frosch123> but it's hard to do on windows
20:20:43 <frosch123> though iirc someone made it work on w10
20:21:11 <frosch123> thought weren't that you?
20:23:15 <supermop> i certainly didn't figure it out, as i only have been on w10 for about a month and don't really know how pnml works yet
20:24:22 <andythenorth> I would avoid it
20:24:45 <frosch123> well, someone in this channel ran bash and compiled something with nml
20:25:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: pnml or w10?
20:25:22 <andythenorth> although the C Pre-Processor is beautifully simple to use, I found it constraining
20:25:29 <andythenorth> but then we know how I voted :P
20:25:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think it's fine if you only do #include
20:25:56 <andythenorth> it adds a big make / gcc dependency on windows, for not a lot of power
20:26:27 <andythenorth> actually, I might be talking out of my arse, I haven’t installed it on windows :)
20:28:05 <andythenorth> best thing this week
20:28:45 <supermop> hmm ha noi and sai gon had different gauge tramways
20:31:31 <supermop> RH need an indochina roster?
20:31:33 <andythenorth> does python work on windows? o_O
20:31:43 <andythenorth> supermop: ‘not right now'
20:32:40 <supermop> i dont think i need to make a rv grf right now
20:33:12 <supermop> but idk maybe i should keep trying to do something at a low speed so that i gather no moss
20:34:40 <supermop> and as i've been playing a game with VN names, and dont have the appetite to try to draw VN houses right now
20:37:22 <supermop> maybe sai gon trams are the non-electric tramways we need as another nrt proof of concept
20:38:51 <andythenorth> you could draw some boats :P
20:39:00 <andythenorth> actually you can’t because I don’t know how long they should be :)
20:42:36 <supermop> sai gon trams will need ha noi trams, and then im doing all of indochina, then all of SEA
20:43:55 <supermop> then im basically doing the 2cc trams but with my slightly different nitpick
20:44:41 <supermop> so i might as well just fork 2cc trams to include HK and ROC flags
20:51:53 <supermop> are different tramway gauges and electrical supplies frustrating rivet counting or raison d'etre for nrt?
20:55:43 <andythenorth> unless it gives you quite different vehicles
20:56:02 <andythenorth> e.g fast vs slow, powerful vs. anemic, long vs. short etc
20:58:20 <supermop> ha noi built 1000mm electric trams rather than 500mm steam like sai gon because they built a few years later
20:58:41 <supermop> so effectively sai gon had first mover disadvantage
20:59:03 <supermop> but thats unworkable / unfun in game
20:59:39 <supermop> if 500mm is objectively worse, i won't build it in the 1880s, i'll just wait 10 years
21:04:32 <andythenorth> Iron Horse rework?
21:04:35 <andythenorth> it does kind of suck
21:07:48 <frosch123> i thought you just add more roasters
21:08:20 <frosch123> is there already iron alpaka?
21:09:31 <andythenorth> it’s kind of crap
21:09:47 <andythenorth> it became apparent that some structure is needed beyond ’20 engines’ :)
21:09:59 * andythenorth should save that
21:10:43 * andythenorth _should_ draw ships
21:10:49 <andythenorth> but can’t decide how long they should be
21:12:13 <andythenorth> by train rules that should be 64px in \ / views
21:12:45 <frosch123> the ship-driving-in-circle image was more useful
21:13:49 <frosch123> in 8-ships-such the diagonal ones are too short
21:14:05 <andythenorth> same scaling as the trains
21:14:07 <frosch123> yes, purely subjetive
21:19:07 <andythenorth> that’s pretty close to FISH
21:19:29 <andythenorth> FISH nominally used .066
21:19:53 <andythenorth> and the main reason to redraw is that the ships look wrong in game :)
21:20:24 <andythenorth> 3/5 is pretty close to 0.66 too :P
21:21:13 <andythenorth> what does V453000 say? o_O
21:22:26 <V453000> ships aren't tied to grid in any logical way and have no collisions, just draw what looks right
21:22:48 <supermop> patch in ship crashes
21:23:05 <V453000> by quick eyeballing I'd prefer the 80x12 base
21:23:12 <V453000> to fit to the - | views
21:24:24 <andythenorth> maybe FISH is fine :)
21:24:57 <V453000> I didn't use it ultra much but it seemed okay to me
21:25:04 <frosch123> rerelease fish1 as sam?
21:31:56 * andythenorth tries to work out why the game makes trains so short in \ / views
21:32:03 <andythenorth> eh maybe it just looks good
21:33:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: pikka shortened --- view to how it was originally
21:33:18 <V453000> well because 2 8/8 fit on a diagonal and on a straight one as well
21:33:30 <V453000> simple square root in a triangle :)
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21:50:10 <supermop> i guess trolley bus/trucks are next most important thing to show in NRT
21:50:54 <supermop> from my perspective, I think people can understand what speedlimits would be like without a proof of concept
21:51:26 <andythenorth> speedlimits are dull also :)
21:51:49 <supermop> but unpowered tram sort of suggests powered road
21:52:25 <supermop> cheap, dirt roads are maybe interesting,
21:52:47 <andythenorth> also I won’t add trolley bus/truck to RH in brit roster
21:53:05 <andythenorth> already posted :)
21:53:21 * andythenorth is usually late to anything like that
21:55:37 <supermop> oh god the handbag i drew looks like an abomination
21:56:24 <andythenorth> I can’t draw shoes
21:56:30 <andythenorth> cats though, no problem
21:59:29 <supermop> drawing a handbag for cat is...odd
22:01:29 <supermop> as is drawing cat for shoe
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22:32:59 <andythenorth> 3/5 seems the easiest to work with
22:33:40 <supermop> maybe ill steal the antelope ng sprites i drew to make tams?
22:37:14 <supermop> distracts from me making trolley trucks
22:39:47 <supermop> trying to get over my deep apathy for default vehicles, because if i make an ogfx+ trolley truck set i know i will never use it
22:45:58 <andythenorth> electrify those trucks
22:46:08 <andythenorth> saves you a shitload of agony about lengths, styles etc
22:47:11 <andythenorth> some kind of Electric Hog :P
22:50:52 <supermop> ogfx+ is pretty standardized though
22:55:55 <supermop> i dont need this to be a good RV set right now, just no one else has shown that trolley trucks are possible yet
22:56:44 <supermop> andythenorth: looks decent
22:57:21 <andythenorth> the house length is very different for N / S facing diagonal views :P
22:57:23 <supermop> egrvts is a better option but it's too big and not gpl
22:58:06 <supermop> pasting a set of trolley poles and pantos onto existing sprites is fine by me
23:02:53 <supermop> do people expect trolley trucks to be able to use terminus stops?
23:03:45 <andythenorth> we don’t know yet :)
23:04:22 <andythenorth> just make them articulated, then it’s moot
23:04:50 <supermop> i'd hate to have to back a trolley truck into a bay
23:06:26 <supermop> if it has a battery or engine that lets me drive around without the wire, maybe ok,
23:06:59 <supermop> although if trolleytrucks are articulated, maybe there isn't enough gameplay difference from trams
23:07:01 <planetmaker> supermop: if you want to give some trams love and / or overhaul those in OpenGFX+RV, be my guest
23:07:34 <supermop> planetmaker: i'm happy to
23:08:07 <andythenorth> supermop: depends on game date, but they could have relatively high HP relative to diesel trucks
23:08:13 <andythenorth> it all comes down the wire
23:08:16 <andythenorth> also light weight
23:08:27 <supermop> things i thought last week:
23:10:44 <supermop> better acceleration? lighter? cheaper (no IC engine)? more expensive (specialized equipment)? lower running costs (no messy diesel repairs, fuel independence, no need to refuel)? higher reliability? lower reliability (wires came down)?
23:14:22 <andythenorth> are you balancing them against any other set?
23:14:36 <andythenorth> anyway, I’d give them same capacity as diesel trucks (20-40t)
23:14:54 <andythenorth> and 25% more power and 20% lower weight, but higher cost
23:15:11 <supermop> basically a trolley version of each ogfx+ plus
23:15:27 <andythenorth> dunno if my idea is valid, but it’s a starting point
23:15:51 <andythenorth> I teddy-bear code a lot, but there’s always a time to just start testing in the game :)
23:16:05 <andythenorth> also bed time here
23:39:29 <supermop> planetmaker: idk if i am going to be able to produce code compliant with the rest of ogfx+rv
23:41:30 <supermop> not sure if it's better to try or just individually code them simply
23:44:09 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, I broke my app... without changing it
23:46:07 <planetmaker> supermop, that will have to be seen. Re-formatting the code is the easier task, if there's something which works and just needs "tidying up" :)
23:46:45 <planetmaker> Don't worry about that too much... toy with it, adjust it... and wee that it works ingame by adjustment. And then one can still see how to make it fit
23:48:41 <supermop> does ogfx+ support 2cc?
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