IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-02-11
⏴ go to previous day
00:22:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
00:31:52 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
00:48:27 *** Deactivated has joined #openttd
02:29:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
03:25:49 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
03:25:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
03:55:06 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
03:55:08 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
04:43:19 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd
05:32:03 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
07:06:48 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
07:06:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
07:34:38 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:52:30 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
08:52:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
09:20:49 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
09:20:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
09:28:09 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
09:54:02 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:14:17 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
10:41:00 *** mescalito has joined #openttd
10:57:46 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
11:02:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
11:09:24 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
11:16:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:21:46 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
11:31:11 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
11:39:09 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
12:01:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
12:08:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:03:13 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
13:37:26 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
14:53:57 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd
15:35:42 <Dakkus> The construction of the 39 tile long wooden bridge over the baltic sea concluded on 18th March 1900. It is expected to very efficiently reduce the load on the congested Helsinki-Talinn ferry line.
15:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds realistic
15:38:14 <Dakkus> Obviously Tallinn is the biggest city in Europe.
15:39:05 <Dakkus> The Valga/Valka twin city, the second largest urban area, is a third saller than Tallinn.
15:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what's actually up with the names Tallinn vs. Reval?
15:40:53 <Dakkus> Just like London wasn't originally called London.
15:41:16 <Dakkus> And Cologne wasn't originally called Köln or Cologne.
15:42:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
15:42:11 <Dakkus> At some point everyone was calling the city Tallinn and then they apparently decided to make it official. If I've understood it correctly.
15:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't know about "everybody", but i still learned about the city under the name of Reval in the 90s
15:43:17 <Dakkus> Then, to add to this, the German language has retained the old name.
15:43:40 <Dakkus> But since the city is known as Tallinn in all other languages, many Germans call it Tallinn as well.
15:44:14 <Dakkus> Might have something to do with Estonia and Lavia having been practically part of Germany from around year 1200 to year 1700.
15:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 's also called Reval in my game of Europa Universalis IV
15:44:29 <Dakkus> Yeah, because that takes place a long time ago.
15:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> where it's obviously owned by me (saxony)
15:45:00 <Dakkus> Try moving it to Denmark. Might change its name :)
15:45:16 <Dakkus> EU IV does this - shows different names depending on the ruling realm.
15:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not going to be a denmark in my world :p
15:45:32 <__ln__> wikipedia implies Reval is the german name for Tallinn
15:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> not while the von Wettin family controls the strong holy roman empire :p
15:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Wettin, btw. is like 10km that way -->
15:47:00 <Dakkus> That's where your arrow is pointing.
15:47:11 <supermop> the arrow is pointing north on my screen
15:47:12 <__ln__> it's clearly pointing west
15:47:27 <Dakkus> supermop: See, your screen is incorrectly set up.
15:47:48 <Dakkus> Now everything is fine.
15:50:22 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: Tartu oder Dorpat?
15:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know where that's supposed to be
15:53:10 <__ln__> western coast of estonia
15:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not all areas are represented on this map
15:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> estonia is represented by 3 provinces Narwa, Reval and Ösel (east to west)
15:54:07 <__ln__> "Die Stadt wurde 1251 vom Deutschen Orden gegründet, die Ordensburg um 1265 erstmals erwähnt. Pernau wurde Mitglied der Hanse"
15:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> at least, those are the provinces of estonian culture
16:01:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
16:02:10 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
16:07:09 <Dakkus> Eddi|zuHause: Pärnu/Pernau might be a town within one of your territories.
16:07:18 <Dakkus> At least that's how it goes in CK2.
16:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Dakkus: sometimes the translation is a bit off, when they changed the names of provinces to names of towns in english, they didn't always apply that same change to german
16:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the province borders don't always match modern borders
16:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so half of modern estonia is actually in the livland territory
16:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and has latvian culture
16:10:38 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
16:36:34 <Dakkus> Eddi|zuHause: Well, in reality it had neither Latvian nor Estonian culture, but Livonian.
16:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "culture" is a bit loose term in EU4
16:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they occasionally made some odd choices which don't always make sense
16:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> like riga being prussian culture
16:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> while all surrounding provinces are of latvian culture
16:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and then prussian is not in the baltic culture group, but in the german
16:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, sure, it was the teutonic order ruling there, but did that really have an effect on the people living there?
16:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the culture groups are a bit arbitrary, sometimes just two cultures being close by get put into one culture group
16:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> like basque being in the spanish culture group
17:16:59 <Dakkus> Eddi|zuHause: Basque?! :D
17:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the basque people live in northern spain and southern france
17:17:46 <Dakkus> Eddi|zuHause: Also, the situation in Riga was such that the city did indeed function mainly in German.
17:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> like, where the name biscaya
17:18:12 <Dakkus> The Latvian language and culture did coexist with German there, but was secondary.
17:18:43 <Dakkus> The countryside, then again, was almost purely Latvian-speaking.
17:19:26 <Dakkus> Latvia and Estonia were very peculiar in how their populations were divided into poor local-speakers and rich Low-German speakers.
17:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (... also where the ETA terrorists come from)
17:31:17 <Dakkus> That's a bit of a stereotype O.o
17:31:36 <Dakkus> Also, I could understand the Bay of Biscaya thing, but can ETA exist in EU IV?!
17:31:50 <Dakkus> I didn't think their roots are that far in the past.
17:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the basque people lived there since before the roman times...
17:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> of course ETA itself is newer than that
17:37:16 <Dakkus> Indeed, and that's why I find it weird that they would be grouped together with the Spanish.
17:37:21 <Dakkus> That's just ridiculous.
17:37:29 <Dakkus> But what does ETA have to do with this?
17:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing, just that they were fighting for basque independence (or whatever)?
17:38:22 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:38:51 <Dakkus> Hey... I've played OTTD for like 12 hours today, feel a bit too stressed for OpenXCom and Widelands refuses to function on my computer. What should I play? :)
17:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you play ottd for "only" 12 hours and then ask such a question?
17:39:44 <Dakkus> But, I've been playing OTTD for 12 per day for, well, long enough.
17:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i've registered like 1900 hours in EU4 and haven't finished one single game
17:40:43 <Eddi|zuHause> my current game is in 1788, about 30 years to go trying world conquest... but it takes foreeever
17:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm a bit too micromanage-y
17:50:01 *** maciozo has joined #openttd
18:08:02 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd
18:08:04 <Snail> hey guys, I’ll be trying to compile OTTD with Mac OS Sierra right now...
18:08:10 <Snail> anyone already managed to do so?
18:21:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:39:26 <Snail> hey, I read your message from last December about compiling OTTD on Sierra
18:39:35 <Snail> have you ever had a chance to try?
18:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, my suez canal is done, but it didn't even tell me...
19:00:32 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
19:03:13 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
19:03:42 <andythenorth> Snail: no I don’t have Sierra yet
19:03:55 <andythenorth> can’t upgrade OS X if OpenTTD doesn’t work on it
19:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm playing this game wrong, many of my vassals have bigger names than me...
19:03:58 <Snail> andythenorth: heh, got it
19:04:32 <andythenorth> but to comply with ISO 27001 (it’s a work computer) I’ll have to upgrade OS Xsoon
19:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and your iso 27001 allows you to have openttd on it?
19:09:01 <andythenorth> it’s a managed risk
19:18:36 *** maciozo_ has joined #openttd
19:20:00 *** maciozo_ is now known as maciozo
19:24:03 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
19:39:17 <Sacro> Trying to wipe out the french, or the ottomans
19:39:26 <Sacro> Or ... the stupid annoying HRE
19:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i wiped out the french just now
19:40:28 <Sacro> My current game is france
19:40:37 <Sacro> Mostly pushing northwards through England
19:40:45 <Sacro> And hoping to become emperor
19:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> working on the ottomans for the last century or so, you just can't bite enough off it fast enough :(
19:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how to become emperor as france, better by diplomacy or by vassalizing some electors?
19:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the advantage of becoming emperor as saxony is that you can vote for yourself :p
19:54:21 * andythenorth should play a game
20:07:17 <Wolf01> I just finished to play a game... I fucked up fallout 4, my last save was 13-game hours ago about at the start of the entire DLC
20:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> does it not autosave?
20:08:14 <Wolf01> Yes, that's why I fucked up
20:09:28 <Wolf01> You have 3 autosaves, but I used them all up while fast travelling between Commonwealth and Nuka World...
20:10:56 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: being friendly to electors, I had 4 voting for me for a while
20:11:11 <Sacro> But then austria built up IA and that gives +1 opinion per IA
20:11:20 <Sacro> So until the first reform I was stuck behind
20:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can stack diplorep, that gives like +10
20:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and concentrate on the electors that hate austria the most
20:13:35 <andythenorth> it could have one processing step, or be produced directly
20:13:40 <andythenorth> it must not require ENSP
20:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but you don't need to become emperor that early
20:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you manage by the 4th reform or so, that's fine
20:13:56 <andythenorth> and it must not require much of anything from the steel chain :P
20:14:05 <andythenorth> it could be a novelty cargo
20:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, don't concentrate on the electors that hate austria. it's better if the votes that don't go to you are split
20:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> then you only need 3 electors on your side, if the other 4 are split 2/2
20:20:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
20:36:42 <markasoftware> andythenorth: is that some modded thing?
20:37:48 <andythenorth> add-on / mod / newgrf / DLC / whatever ;)
20:38:01 <andythenorth> “Ohio ranks 1st in the production of Swiss cheese”
20:40:16 <Alberth> slate falls nicely in the era that you play :)
20:42:28 <andythenorth> but I need something that doesn’t require ENSP :)
20:52:12 <andythenorth> probably ‘cheese'
20:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't ohio like the "milk belt"?
20:57:58 <glx> I think it is if my memory is correct
21:07:13 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd
21:23:06 <andythenorth> dairy farm -> dairy -> cheese -> trading post
21:25:54 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
21:51:59 <supermop> there are some nice small craft cheeses from ohio and plenty of local dairies
21:52:25 <supermop> but it is not nationally known for dairy in the way that minnesota and wisconsin are
21:53:03 <supermop> if it makes the most 'swiss' cheese its not anything famous or remarkable
21:54:09 <supermop> when I go home to visit my parents there I don't seek out any local cheeses the way I do almost anywhere else
21:55:22 <andythenorth> I need some cargo
21:55:27 <andythenorth> could just do goods
21:55:49 <andythenorth> or I could reverse alcohol, and make it export, not import
21:55:56 <supermop> ohio had some early 20th C glassware that was sort of well known
21:56:17 <supermop> we do brew plenty of beer in ohio too
21:56:24 <supermop> as do the other lakes states
21:56:29 <andythenorth> doesn’t have to be ohio, just seems an obvious place to look for inspiration
21:56:37 <andythenorth> standard grain -> beer?
21:56:42 <andythenorth> nothing unusual?
21:56:56 <andythenorth> I don’t have MNSP and don’t want it :P
21:57:08 <andythenorth> but the brewery needs it
21:57:44 <supermop> Columbus has a large historical german brewery district from pre-prohibition
21:58:20 <supermop> today has a huge industrial AB brewery and ton of craft breweries. most lakes state cities are the same
22:04:04 <supermop> does it need to be a chain that uses no steel?
22:04:17 <supermop> also beer needs beer cans
22:04:51 <andythenorth> preferably no steel
22:04:55 <andythenorth> alu is gone, it’s weird
22:06:58 <supermop> alu for beer cans only
22:08:11 <andythenorth> could be cans + goods
22:08:18 <andythenorth> if I come up with nothing else, I’ll try it
22:09:03 <supermop> I mean I spent better part of 20 years in ohio and I don't know what else to suggest
22:09:11 <supermop> we do have car plants
22:09:26 <andythenorth> so does Steeltown :)
22:09:27 <supermop> proctor and gamble chemicals/soaps
22:09:32 <andythenorth> yeah, soap I looked at
22:09:41 <andythenorth> comes from animal or vegetable fat
22:15:05 <andythenorth> seems goods -> trading post easiest
22:20:50 <supermop> most farms in northern/western ohio seem to primarily grow grain
22:21:43 <andythenorth> think goods -> trading post works fine
22:22:02 <andythenorth> shame limestone can’t be dredged, there are no sea-based industries
22:22:28 <supermop> we get it out of big holes next to the Scioto river
22:23:05 <supermop> no one wants anything dead or alive that was pulled out of lake eire
22:23:49 <supermop> had a key chain from them as a kid
22:25:22 <supermop> for ohio could make vacuum cleaners
22:26:11 <supermop> the hoover factory is now hip lofts though
22:27:14 <supermop> now i'm just spamming historic ohio manufacturers
22:28:13 <supermop> maybe there is something in fine chemicals
22:28:23 <supermop> or goods made from fine chemicals
22:28:39 <andythenorth> there is, but I need the chemicals :)
22:28:41 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
22:29:37 <supermop> great lakes area does need fields to fill the space between towns
22:29:53 <supermop> and the produce of those fields must go somewhere
22:35:53 * andythenorth wonders about water industries
22:35:57 <andythenorth> fishing is out, needs MNSP
22:40:04 <supermop> why is this bluebird in england?
22:42:40 <andythenorth> dunno, novelty value?
22:42:55 <andythenorth> it’s so geometric
22:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> some people collect butterflies, some people collect foreign busses
22:44:32 <supermop> that one seems to be in use as a school bus
22:44:46 <supermop> that quarry looks a bit boring
22:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> some years ago i saw a bit on TV where a guy wanted to import an american school bus, but then couldn't get it licensed here because the fire exit doors were not up to german specifications
22:46:03 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause an old one?
22:46:15 <supermop> the ones I rode as a kid seemed like something out of the 30s
22:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> are there ever "new" ones?
22:47:28 <supermop> I think they are cycled through quite rapidly these days, but they still build them with those riveted sheet steel sides
22:48:00 <supermop> and the do have more exist now, and apparently air conditioning
22:49:34 <supermop> seems to be they go 1) rich suburban distric/large urban district 2) poor suburban / exurban district, 3) private charter company 4) sitting in someone's front yard who lives in a rural area
22:50:29 <supermop> 5) eccentric European's project?
22:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 5 overlaps with 4
22:55:25 <__ln__> i've seen a genuine american school bus over here, with temporary license plates indicating it had been recently imported from abroad
22:57:46 <supermop> why people like those things i'll never know
22:58:22 <supermop> nothing but memories of being car sick etc
23:10:35 <andythenorth> non-ferrous metals -> coin mint -> coins -> trading post
23:19:33 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: europeans only know these things from american movies
23:54:42 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
