IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-01-29
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09:03:49 <Alberth> iron horse 1.9.1, stakebeek flatbed tram
09:04:30 <Alberth> at least I hope it's IH
09:04:52 <andythenorth> animal / animal /s
09:06:08 <Alberth> I think it's the only corner where this happens, and only in this direction
09:06:17 <Alberth> but the other corners are much harder to check
09:07:47 <Alberth> universal way of fixing things :)
09:12:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: although it looks wrong (verified here), it’s ‘right’ according to the BB
09:13:20 <andythenorth> although not for some other angles :P
09:13:29 <andythenorth> the – in the opposite direction is quite wrong :P
09:14:12 <andythenorth> but that one at least looks right in game :P
09:14:31 <Alberth> something nrt-ish perhaps?
09:15:25 <andythenorth> afaict, trams that are ‘correct’ for the BB are ‘wrong’ for the track sprites
09:15:43 <andythenorth> that’s my best guess anyway, I’ve tried to solve this before :)
09:16:21 <Alberth> so, they're supposed to be wrong for BB :)
09:16:42 <andythenorth> my assumption is that the track sprites and the actual vehicle movement don’t match up
09:16:55 <andythenorth> and then that will also vary with newgrfs, for extra fun :)
09:17:29 <Alberth> combining vehicles of different newgrfs is an art in itself :p
09:18:22 <andythenorth> some of the tram track grfs have different gauges
09:19:26 <andythenorth> the – view is hard to line up, because it’s a cube rotated 45 degrees
09:19:46 <andythenorth> unlike the \ / views which are actually usefully when using ctrl-b
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10:01:09 <andythenorth> and no need to line up with tracks :P
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10:32:50 <andythenorth> what would be nice
10:35:02 <V453000> I have a serious train problem
10:35:18 <V453000> no matter what kind of train I draw or render, it will never look better than 8bpp slugs
10:38:11 <V453000> if 32bpp doesn't look good after I'm done with photoshoping it to shit, and writing a custom 32-8bpp converter, I will probably just return to drawing 8bpp
10:38:57 <andythenorth> as a copy of the 32bpp, but drawn?
10:39:04 <andythenorth> or just no 32bpp?
10:39:45 <V453000> ofc Eventually if I have mental breakdown, I can add 32bpp, but not replace 8bpp
10:40:16 * andythenorth is not convinced 32bpp has moved ottd world forward
10:40:35 <Alberth> ask that to all the zBase fans :p
10:40:38 <andythenorth> about 4 beautiful sets, none finished, all different
10:40:45 <andythenorth> and some fugly stuff
10:40:55 <V453000> well it's because with the more options and availability you get, the harder making the graphics good actually g ets
10:40:57 <andythenorth> big files, slow render and compiles
10:41:12 <V453000> even if I ignore the process
10:41:28 <V453000> zbase is totally out of scope of looking shit
10:41:31 <V453000> but brix is still bad
10:41:46 <V453000> yo sound combinator 01
10:42:10 <andythenorth> I have only seen two things that make me consider drawing 32bpp and/or larger
10:42:18 <andythenorth> the chinese trains
10:42:22 <andythenorth> and some others (polish?)
10:42:36 <V453000> there is nothing else
10:43:08 <Alberth> the cause is in the rendering?
10:43:11 <V453000> really want to finish drawin the brix
10:43:18 <Alberth> or in having too much choice?
10:43:45 <andythenorth> (the trains, not the other sprites)
10:43:47 <V453000> 1. more pixels means it requires SHITLOAD more detail, giant problem comes when details have to look good in x1 zoom, while not looking retarded in x4
10:44:18 <andythenorth> V453000: pure 3D games use poly clipping at different zoom levels
10:44:22 <V453000> 2. rendering, even with nearest neighbours and non-antialiased algorithms, will always look blurry, esp compared t o the super vibrant, contrasty and precise well-drawn 8bpp
10:44:26 <andythenorth> for both performance + appearance
10:44:57 <V453000> 3. more colours -> you actually need to choose colours carefully, with 8bpp you "just draw" with the palette that you already have given, that's a HUGE helper for consistency
10:45:18 <V453000> that's my top 3 points for 32bpp not working, or being extremely hard to do nicely
10:45:25 <Alberth> 1. I think that was to be expected, to get optimal quality, you'd have to draw each size by hand
10:45:58 <Alberth> 2. algorithms are no match for human intuition and precision
10:46:18 <V453000> 4. OpenTTD's scale is in many places absolutely not realistic - chibi for example - so it either looks retarded - super chibi - or you make graphics which don't look like real world trains - slugs
10:46:21 <Alberth> 3. Make a slightly bigger palette?
10:46:43 <andythenorth> V453000: I think the brix trains nailed it tbh
10:46:47 <V453000> yeah but 1. means it takes INSANE amount of time
10:46:53 <andythenorth> and they wouldn’t look right drawn in pixels
10:46:58 <V453000> andythenorth: yes, it is very carefully designed
10:47:20 <V453000> in pixels they wouldn't need such stupid tricks because the illusion works there, just like it always have
10:47:38 <V453000> Alberth a bigger palette is unnecessary, in fact I am considering to try converting 32bpp to 8bpp even in EZ
10:48:08 <V453000> which would answer the "omfg we want moar pixulz on our 8K screen fuck TV on table with computer plugged into it", while keeping great consistency
10:48:09 <andythenorth> but I’m not redrawing everything of mine to 2x zoom :P
10:48:25 <V453000> problem iz need custom converter I will eventually write in snake language
10:48:33 <V453000> yes the polish set is win
10:48:34 <Alberth> what I mean is perhaps use 512 or 1024 colours or so, rather than 16e6
10:48:53 <V453000> yeah that looks possible
10:48:59 <V453000> 4 days is a lot though
10:49:03 <V453000> when I consider how many cargoes nuts has
10:49:11 <andythenorth> even automating the cargos like I have
10:49:23 <andythenorth> I have kids, I don’t have that time
10:49:27 <V453000> I know that full wagon generation for NUTS took me around 3 weeks
10:49:34 <andythenorth> 4x zoom is for 1st year degree students
10:49:39 <V453000> says has kids, dras ships
10:49:40 <andythenorth> nothing to do in 1st year anyway
10:49:52 <andythenorth> V453000: automated ships :P
10:50:40 <V453000> but yeah, nothing is final but I don't feel very stronk about 32bpp
10:50:54 <V453000> especially when I see slugs which use like all palette colours
10:51:35 <andythenorth> global fill 8 colours :P
10:51:44 <andythenorth> and I am teaching PIL to do it for me :P
10:52:00 <Alberth> working very hard to be lazy :)
10:52:09 <andythenorth> end result = better quality
10:52:24 <andythenorth> I draw one ship really well in false colour
10:52:29 <andythenorth> recolour it to make 3 ships :P
10:52:49 <andythenorth> fits original game style
10:53:04 <andythenorth> one-third of the sprites are probably copy-paste and recolour
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10:54:04 <Alberth> that's fine, stats are also lot of re-use, multiplied with some factor
10:56:57 <V453000> I'm planning to go absolutely batshit with my trains, regarding recolouring andythenorth
10:57:14 <V453000> it's so fast and easy and gives so much variety
10:57:26 <V453000> the rainbow slugs use it a lot, and they look glorious
10:58:31 <V453000> also shit like, draw 1 heap of coal
10:58:37 <V453000> automatically get all 20 hopper cargoes
11:00:35 <Wolf01> The BARRB project looks nice, I hope for NRT compatibility
11:01:46 <andythenorth> he won’t be able to do it any other way :)
11:05:17 <V453000> I don't want to be hating, but OpenGFX is the death of quality pixel art in openttd
11:05:30 <V453000> because every new set since opengfx is the official shit just draws it "to be compatible"
11:05:43 <V453000> but the fact that the levels and contrast in opengfx is utterly fucked is just under the carpet
11:06:18 * andythenorth has considered fixing it before
11:06:18 <V453000> but then any of us could have improved it at any point, so...
11:06:25 <andythenorth> but the easy fix is installing the proper base set
11:06:30 <V453000> I did road/rail tunnels! :D
11:07:16 <Alberth> having alternatives is always useful
11:07:31 <Alberth> ie zBase is good only because there is nothing else in 32bpp
11:07:39 <andythenorth> V453000: it’s unappealing to me to spend 1 year drawing a replacement for ogfx :P
11:07:39 <V453000> not when it becomes a standard and new authors start making things based off it
11:07:44 <andythenorth> it won’t be better than original
11:07:50 <andythenorth> and it will have to be different
11:08:22 <V453000> it blows my mind how well the original is drawn
11:08:27 <V453000> it's literally timeless
11:08:35 <andythenorth> especially comparing lomo is so bad, from same author :P
11:08:50 <V453000> lomo is the RCT styled graphics right
11:09:05 <Wolf01> Ok, that underlay needs fixing graphics
11:09:23 <andythenorth> oh he’s switched to affinity
11:09:27 <andythenorth> interesting, I’m considering that
11:09:39 <andythenorth> drippy cat = simon foster
11:10:43 <andythenorth> could just pay him to draw a base set :P
11:11:41 <V453000> I even replied to that video telling him about my afterFX shit :P
11:12:00 <Alberth> lomo used 3d rendering, at least for the vehicles, I think
11:12:13 <Alberth> then it makes sense to keep that style, or it's a mess
11:12:50 <_maddy> any newgrf to run fast trains (monotrail/maglev) on track that looks like electrified rails? similar to "universal rail"
11:13:53 <_maddy> NUTS doesn't allow that
11:14:32 <V453000> what do you actually want to achieve?
11:14:43 <V453000> just add an universal rail which looks like rail?
11:16:12 <V453000> there's quite a few universal rail newgrfs which do just that?
11:16:18 <V453000> just search for universal
11:17:52 <_maddy> only two results, "universal rail type" and purr
11:18:13 <V453000> well, universal rail type works?
11:18:14 <_maddy> I am looking for universal rail, but with electrified track
11:18:42 <V453000> but yeah I don't know about any such newgrf
11:20:12 <_maddy> just like how it looks, no reason other than that.. more than say monorail or maglev
11:20:47 <V453000> yeah, railway has it's magic
11:21:01 <V453000> which trains do you want to run on it?
11:21:35 * andythenorth was unsure what SF thought about open source clones
11:22:01 <Wolf01> Catenary should be an infrastructure, so you can put it everywhere :E
11:22:23 <Wolf01> Even in bare land... electric bulldozers
11:23:07 <_maddy> V453000: not sure, just something fast.. I normally just use the fastest electric train, NUTS is good for that
11:23:31 <V453000> well fast is pretty relative _maddy :P
11:23:46 <Alberth> SF doesn't care, he does graphics, not sales of copies
11:24:05 <_maddy> my point is that I never get to play with monorail or maglev because I don't like how the tracks look :)
11:24:27 <V453000> what base set are you using?
11:24:45 <V453000> there's your problem :P
11:25:11 <V453000> please join the worshippers of original grafix
11:25:55 <V453000> nice, I've never seen that
11:26:04 <V453000> it's shit-compatible with opengfx but generally nice
11:26:19 <V453000> it's not like purr is a masterpiece in how it looks
11:26:24 <_maddy> Alberth: yeah I noticed that, it's better than the original
11:26:32 * V453000 has a lot of words but no products
11:26:32 <Alberth> I'd paint the tracks with something else than grey, at least
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11:27:04 <Alberth> for some reason people want dull grey as track colour for maglev
11:27:09 <_maddy> clean purr is actually pretty nice... the colorful ones break my eyes
11:27:34 <V453000> just ... don't use the colourful ones then XD
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11:28:30 <_maddy> what is the newgrf for the simplistic/flat looking landscape in latest openttdcoop screenshots?
11:28:31 <Alberth> yeah, they are a bit bright :)
11:28:53 <V453000> Lejving is obsessing with posting screens with it everywhere
11:28:56 <V453000> although it's shit XD
11:29:21 <Alberth> V: you kmow the love/hate relation ship of andy with his sets, right?
11:30:07 <Alberth> V: compare with zbase, not with hand-drawn graphics :p
11:30:48 <Alberth> no way you ever going to win with algorithms then
11:31:15 <V453000> is why I'm going hardcore nerd mode with my wacom over it Alberth
11:31:48 <V453000> I'm not completely redrawing the things, just trying to see how much enhancement do I need to get a good result
11:32:03 <V453000> it's certainly possible to render a nice 3D thing, but it's more work than doing it by hand
11:32:29 <Alberth> yeah, "working hard to be lazy" isn't actually any shorter :)
11:32:42 <Alberth> at least not for first-time things
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11:35:40 * andythenorth automates the stuff that can be automated
11:35:48 <andythenorth> like copy-paste nonsense
11:36:09 <V453000> if I ever stop talking shit and actually start working on it, my next train set will be automation heaven
11:36:15 <V453000> andythenorth will drool
11:36:32 <V453000> compile times might be unoptimized
11:36:47 <andythenorth> 1 wagon with 20 cargos = 320 copy-paste
11:36:59 <andythenorth> that’s the crap to automate
11:37:51 * V453000 is going to be brave and generate code by snake as well
11:37:58 <andythenorth> 1 mistake in positioning = 1 tedious bug report 7 months later :P
11:38:35 <V453000> joke ran away after 3 types
11:38:41 <Wolf01> How did you manage to press 1 instead of e?
11:39:00 <V453000> music melting my brain
11:39:21 <Wolf01> I can't listen to songs while writing :(
11:39:29 <Wolf01> I need to listen to classic music only
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11:41:25 <V453000> yeah the thing I have here isn't exactly classic
11:47:08 <Wolf01> I'm more heavy/power/epic metal, hard rock and classic music :P
11:47:49 <Wolf01> Mmmmh, I should open "some" lego boxes... exactly 12
11:48:03 <Wolf01> Before I forget that again
11:55:56 <Wolf01> They didn't even wasted time to open it
11:57:38 <Wolf01> Since last time I purchased only 8 and I found that I needed more, this time I purchased directly 12 :P
11:58:21 <Wolf01> Oh, wonderful, it's only one plastic bag, I could try to build it without open it
11:58:50 <V453000> found that I needed more
11:58:56 <V453000> one does not simply play one factorio
11:59:33 <_maddy> is factorio good game? how does it compare to openttd?
12:03:00 <V453000> it's a great game, it's similar in some of the building-some-logistic-stuff-on-a-tile-grid-kind-of-puzzle
12:03:56 <V453000> in openttd, trains are super nice and have super high potential for complexity, but the other transportation types are dumb as bricks
12:04:16 <V453000> in factorio, none of them is so extremely complex as openttd trains can get, but all of them are interesting
12:05:41 <V453000> and combining them together can also get pretty fucked up :)
12:06:26 <_maddy> yeah, it looks pretty nice, will probably buy it at some point in the future
12:11:55 <Alberth> factorio, coop-style :)
12:13:52 <V453000> admittedly, nobody really builds this way. Vast majority of people prefer to keep their factories super clean
12:14:00 <V453000> but it doesn't result in the absolute visual mayhem ._.
12:17:31 <Wolf01> <V453000> it's a great game <- asking the innkeeper if the wine is good
12:24:05 <V453000> there are innkeepers who lie and who don't :P
12:24:14 <V453000> also there are innkeepers who are alcoholics
12:29:41 <Wolf01> Uhm, now the tricky step... connect the 3 main pieces of the locomotive...
12:33:23 <Wolf01> Less than the last time when I tried to build it by guessing the instructions
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12:36:40 <Wolf01> How could be that cheating?
12:36:57 <V453000> aren't you supposed to build it form tiny bits? :D
12:37:00 <V453000> is this how it arrived?
12:37:12 <Wolf01> Ahahaha no, it arrived in pieces :D
12:37:57 <V453000> but why is it in the plastic bag then ._.
12:38:16 <Wolf01> <Wolf01> Oh, wonderful, it's only one plastic bag, I could try to build it without open it <-
12:39:24 <Alberth> less lost tiny bits :p
12:39:29 <V453000> but yeah you're cheating because you avoided the danger of getting some pieces lost all over the room XD
12:39:55 <Wolf01> Ahaahh build while paused like... not a cheat anymore
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12:43:00 <Wolf01> Hall hail the hypnotoad
12:44:05 <Wolf01> And "h-l" is one key far away than "1-e" XD
12:48:44 <Lejving> Ffs V453000 Im just spreading the V legacy!!! :(
12:49:56 <V453000> yeah pregnant individuals seem to shit brix
12:50:29 <V453000> anyway slave what are you doing in this channel, get back to expanding the slug hive
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13:06:18 <frosch123> Wolf01: building stuff inside the bag is awesome :)
13:06:44 <Alberth> no dust at your precious models!
13:07:58 <Wolf01> Too bad that those which are taking dust were split in different plastic bags :P
13:08:19 <V453000> write it as a special shipping requirement
13:09:22 <Wolf01> I wonder how I could be able to build the bucket wheel excavator in a single bag... also it needs batteries XD
13:10:19 <Wolf01> 3929 parts... it would be really tricky
13:18:02 <V453000> order one on solar powering instead of batteries
13:21:45 <V453000> brix haz grene grass noaw
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13:22:52 <_maddy> is brix downloadable from anywhere?
13:23:41 <V453000> it's not ready for 0.0.1 yet
13:23:48 <V453000> the style will change a lot
13:24:43 <Wolf01> has andythenorth seen my last achievement?
13:25:16 <andythenorth> boil in the bag?
13:26:07 <Wolf01> I should build the other 2 and link the bags together
13:26:24 <Wolf01> But I won't do that :P
13:26:39 <_maddy> V453000: unofficially?
13:28:11 <V453000> I have a file I have shared with a few people
13:28:17 <V453000> but it's not available anywhere
13:29:09 <_maddy> I'll wait fhr the 0.0.1
13:29:23 <V453000> the first impression matters a lot
13:29:39 <V453000> at least it needs to have a defined style which isn't going to change completely
13:29:45 <V453000> and after longer playing it currently isn't great
13:34:18 <Wolf01> I tried it this morning, it works but only with new sprites, basesets have the terrain and road all in one sprite so it overwrites the other one
13:36:45 <Wolf01> But I think it would be possible to keep both behaviors by removing the else part and switching positions for road and tram underlays
13:37:12 <Wolf01> *removing else part and replacing it with tram_rti != NULL
13:38:05 <frosch123> well, we need baseset sprites
13:38:37 <frosch123> anyway, i am more in the mood to finishing a first version, than to extend the roadmap :p
13:40:57 <Wolf01> Could I suggest to change the "titles" of the todo items to h3? Or it would clutter too much the nav menu?
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13:43:46 <frosch123> list got too long? :p
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13:47:30 <andythenorth> how long should a 128px ship be in \ / views
13:50:24 <Wolf01> Yes, easy to spot the todo item body :P
13:50:52 <frosch123> i never understood the header font sizes
13:50:59 <frosch123> h2 always looks smaller than h3
13:51:24 <V453000> 453000 looks bigger than anything else
13:57:26 <V453000> maybe the answer to brix is to make everything actually slugs
14:02:46 <Wolf01> I wonder if you already hid a slug somewhere in factorio
14:05:01 <V453000> plan B was replace all biter graphics with slugs
14:05:48 <Wolf01> Reduce their speed too, make them spawn more, dramatic wave of slugs coming to eat you alive
14:07:48 <Wolf01> You should really make a mod
14:18:23 <frosch123> or do have a different opinion/idea?
14:19:23 <frosch123> Wolf01: ever wondered what is under the helmet of the factorio character?
14:21:37 <Wolf01> Could be V for what I can guess, usually if I can't make a character I don't really bother of his aspect... but the model reminds me a lot Kovac from How to Survive
14:23:04 <Wolf01> That's why you have to put exoskeleton to make it run fast?
14:23:23 <V453000> yeah or put lube barrel in inventory
14:23:55 <frosch123> i would believe that :)
14:25:08 <Alberth> frosch123: I have no problems with declarative syntax like line 33 (identifier = ...), but fair enough. Making it consistent like you propose would be good, imho
14:25:22 <Alberth> perhaps add () for those definitions that don't have it yet?
14:25:42 <frosch123> empty () looks weird
14:26:12 <frosch123> you don't write that
14:27:23 <Alberth> I might, but I am doing too many weird languages :p
14:28:06 <frosch123> i try to take python as guide :)
14:28:34 <Alberth> makes sense, quite known language, and well designed
14:29:07 <Alberth> we'd need to drop the { and } too then :p
14:29:24 <Alberth> I often do header : .... end
14:30:03 <Alberth> of course that breaks all nml code :p
14:33:07 <Alberth> also, I have been pondering how to save/load std::string, it seems there are 2 options. 1) Make a special case for the struct that has them (assuming that's possible), or 2) Introduce 'native' std::string support in save/load code. The latter looks like adding a SLE_VAR_STDSTR or so. at first sight
14:33:49 <Alberth> under the assumption this is not going to be the last std::string to save, the latter may be the better solution
14:34:31 <frosch123> what do you want to save? grffilename?
14:37:01 <frosch123> anyway, i believe we already have SLE_ stuf for char* and char[], so adding std::string as third should be fine
14:37:42 <Alberth> and there is another Grf class GrfFile or so, iirc
14:38:41 <frosch123> is the "stringquote" stuff actually used? i cannot find anything
14:40:13 <frosch123> so STR and STRQ is not about savegames, but about ini files :)
14:40:47 <Alberth> but I agree it's weird
14:41:02 <frosch123> yeah, in saveload both are treated the same, just the iniwriter in settings.cpp makes a difference
14:42:11 <frosch123> /* 1 more possible memory-primitives */ <- more weird limitations :p
14:43:14 <Alberth> related to the 4bit var and 4bit file format stored in 1 byte
14:50:31 <Lejving> I demand a hell newgrf with stations+objects
14:52:45 <Alberth> GarryG has lots of objects :)
14:58:49 <torsan> Hello. How to install openttd on ubuntu 16.04? Will package for 14.04 work?
14:59:08 <frosch123> the generic package will work
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15:27:58 <andythenorth> the nice thing about nml syntax
15:28:07 <andythenorth> is that mostly you don’t need it to write nml :P
15:28:42 <andythenorth> if I was a better programmer I’d skip the parser modul
15:28:54 <andythenorth> import nml modules
15:29:01 <andythenorth> and generate the tree directly
15:31:17 <Markk> Aaah, I've really missed OpenTTD. Because of some computer issues I wasn't able to play anything for the last year, but now it's fixed and I've really catched up!
15:33:33 <Markk> I've had some other trains and airplanes before, but now it's just stock.
15:34:30 <Markk> Mosly because it's what I'm used to. First 4-5 years or so I wasn't really aware of the NewGRF stuff.
15:35:13 <Markk> And now I kinda prefer the stock grf :)
15:35:55 <Markk> I'm more for building nice looking tracks and station layouts then caring so much about what I'm transporting.
15:36:21 <Markk> My OCD likes when tracks both look nice and are efficient.
15:38:42 <andythenorth> my OCD won’t talk to me anymore, I’m too untidy
15:39:15 <Markk> You'll have to kiss and make up.
15:39:33 <Markk> See if it still likes you or just want a divorce.
15:39:47 <Markk> I would love to get an divorce from my OCD.
15:49:54 <Alberth> Could try opengfx+ looks like stock, with some nice extras
15:53:24 <andythenorth> that’s quite effective
15:53:30 <andythenorth> I should make an industry like that
15:53:39 <andythenorth> usually it’s mine winding wheels
15:54:01 <Alberth> I have those too, I think, but they're too common
15:55:45 <Alberth> haha, steel factory from alcohol to fish :p
15:57:53 <Markk> Alberth: hm, that looks quite nice, I don't mean the graphics, just the idea of a bit more advanced goods handling and transporting.
15:58:03 <Markk> Alberth: I'll have to look into firs a bit more :)
15:58:20 <andythenorth> FIRS has basic economies
15:58:28 <andythenorth> but it’s quite a change from default gameplay
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16:12:40 <Alberth> make sure you start with the basic economies, it avoids getting very much lost
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16:17:09 <andythenorth> ach that reminds me
16:17:18 <andythenorth> I have to test Arctic Basic again
16:24:28 <Markk> andythenorth: Ah, danke schön, mate!
16:25:20 <andythenorth> Temperate Basic is the most approachable
16:25:32 <andythenorth> Arctic Basic is a bit weird and has been reworked, but not released yet
16:25:52 <andythenorth> Tropic Basic is fine, but mostly food
16:26:11 <andythenorth> ach you have to have vehicle grfs as well though :P
16:26:13 <Markk> I prefer temperate overall
16:27:45 <V453000> Alberth: nice chimneys XD
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16:36:32 <andythenorth> those ships are 2 tiles long
16:36:44 <andythenorth> \ / look super short compared to FISH / Squid, but probably better
16:39:01 <V453000> I like it andythenorth
16:39:19 <V453000> oh it's meant to be the same sprite XD
16:39:27 <V453000> why don't you make --- shorter?
16:39:57 <V453000> the amount of stripes doesn't need to match, y know :D
16:40:06 <andythenorth> it fits the sprite lengths in base set afaict
16:40:26 <andythenorth> seems to be a straight 2:1
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16:40:41 <andythenorth> “the projection is not accurate"
16:44:20 <supermop> at some point, you must abandon foster as your god, andy
16:44:56 <andythenorth> and recode the vehicle lengths? o_O
16:45:08 <supermop> hmm I already feel like I need a third monitor
16:45:41 <supermop> rhino, grasshopper, grasshopper documentation, irc, ...out of space
16:48:02 <Wolf01> 40" 4K monitor and keep everything there
16:49:06 <V453000> no he would just have rhino on fullscreen and masturbate about the line crispiness :D
16:49:48 <supermop> except I would have irc on the full screen
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17:02:47 <Alberth> that's why I switched to virtual desktops 20 years ago :)
17:03:47 <Alberth> never running out of empty desktop :)
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17:47:43 <Wolf01> Mmmh, the new mini creator sets are really nice with the modularity
17:47:58 <Wolf01> I already made 2 different boilers for the same cab
17:48:12 <Wolf01> And it's easy to swap them
17:51:41 <V453000> and how many steam engines?
17:54:35 <Wolf01> Let's see what happens if I split the tender and a pax car and mix them
17:59:10 <Wolf01> I had a set of toys exactly like this
18:23:33 <Wolf01> Also not sure to place 65€ of pick-a-brick :/ Mainly tiles and other small parts to continue my microscale city
18:50:24 <Wolf01> The parts must come in a way or another
18:50:37 <Wolf01> I need them to finish the diorama
18:54:31 <supermop> Wolf01 here is a microscale city for you:
18:54:51 <supermop> messing about making parametric metabolist things
18:55:27 <supermop> with enough more parameters I could make a parametric lego city I guess
18:58:35 <Wolf01> Also andythenorth, forum pm
21:23:25 <andythenorth> the default base set ships are more messed up than most sprites
21:23:33 <andythenorth> they are longer in / \ views than – :P
21:31:30 <supermop_> to fit under bridges?
21:31:44 <andythenorth> the change of length from \ to – might just be too disjointed??
21:31:50 <andythenorth> it’s what trains and RVs do
21:32:56 <supermop_> use the CETS code for gradual ship turns?
21:35:48 <andythenorth> 8 more angles to draw :o
21:36:38 <supermop_> train a computer to do for you
21:39:57 <andythenorth> AI + generative algorithm
21:40:01 <andythenorth> I just pick the best of 10
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23:08:44 <__ln__> can an executive order be anything?
23:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be anything that interferes with the rights of congress or the states
23:13:14 <__ln__> interfering with the constitution doesn't seem to be a big issue
23:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but what an executive order can be was continuously expanded over the last, say, 80 years
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23:29:30 <supermop_> __ln__: it is essentially just a memo
23:30:08 <supermop_> so can be on or about anything but may or may not have any real effect, and may or may not be enforceable or constitutional
23:31:15 <supermop_> the muslim ban was effectively a memo saying "this people should not be allowed in" it does not change any law, but because it pertains to agencies that are under the executive branch
23:31:54 <supermop_> it essentially then instructs the officers of those agencies to act according to the direction of the order
23:33:10 <supermop_> the courts can, will, and have found that the action prescribed by the order cannot be executed in a lawful or constitutional manner
23:34:19 <supermop_> however an officer under direction of the order could choose to ignore the court
23:34:41 <supermop_> which is different than appealing the court decision
23:35:25 <supermop_> by ignoring the court that officer is acting unlawfully,
23:36:54 <supermop_> and can be found to be in contempt and indicted
23:37:50 <supermop_> the executive should then remove that officer and comply with the court ruling pending appeal
23:38:06 <supermop_> and federal police should arrest them
23:39:02 <__ln__> the whole muslim ban probably puts officers in an awkward position to say the least
23:39:17 <supermop_> however, the executive could ignore the court, and instruct agencies to not arrest
23:39:45 <supermop_> at which point the supreme court should issue an injunction
23:40:08 <supermop_> 'failing that, congress much impeach an executive acting unlawfully
23:41:00 <supermop_> current congress seems unwilling to impeach (barring one theory), and likely will also ignore supreme court
23:42:26 <supermop_> (theory being that Mitch McConnell are goading Trump into acting unconstitutionally, so that at a time convenient to them they can impeach to put Pence or Ryan in charge, who are more aligned with Congressional Republicans)
23:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> the whole muslim ban probably puts officers in an awkward position to say the least <-- this can't possibly be in accordance with the "freedom of religion" part of the constitution
23:49:27 <__ln__> if there was an executive order to reintroduce segregation of races in public transport, would that be ok?
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23:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it would violate about any current supreme court ruling
23:56:03 <__ln__> at this point it looks pretty probable that Trump won't stay in office for the whole 4 years
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