IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-01-26
⏴ go to previous day
00:10:46 <__ln__> should they build another wall on the canadian border while they're at it?
00:21:13 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
00:21:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
00:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> to drive out all these illegal canadian immigrants?
00:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> or to drive out the mexican immigrants who first travel to canada?
00:29:09 *** supermop has joined #openttd
00:38:11 <__ln__> also to control the rate at which their own citizens can leave the country
00:39:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd
00:49:48 *** Milek7_ has joined #openttd
00:55:45 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
00:55:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:12:44 *** supermop has joined #openttd
01:37:31 *** shirish has joined #openttd
04:11:19 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd
04:15:20 *** supermop___ has joined #openttd
04:33:39 *** MonkeyDrone has joined #openttd
05:47:22 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
06:55:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:11:14 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
07:41:34 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd
07:55:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd
08:49:32 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
09:05:14 *** supermop has joined #openttd
09:38:29 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
09:41:20 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd
09:54:56 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
10:08:05 *** supermop has joined #openttd
10:34:02 *** supermop has joined #openttd
11:25:51 *** shirish has joined #openttd
12:17:39 *** shirish has joined #openttd
12:20:50 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
12:21:20 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
12:21:25 <Flygon> Gotta speak Ferengi mate
12:36:38 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
12:54:37 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd
12:57:21 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
13:00:18 *** supermop has joined #openttd
13:06:46 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
13:12:58 *** supermop has joined #openttd
13:21:33 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd
13:21:50 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy
13:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> australia is a tiny bit weird...
13:26:39 <Lejving> yeah it's upside down wtf
13:28:16 <__ln__> that photo must be photoshopped® because it looks like the sky is up and earth is down.
13:33:49 *** supermop has joined #openttd
14:15:34 *** supermop has joined #openttd
14:17:39 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
14:17:48 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
14:34:25 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
14:55:57 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
15:08:59 *** supermop has joined #openttd
15:29:27 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
16:52:59 <supermop_> so now i have a head of state who declares torture - by that name - to be official government policy and desirable
16:54:14 <peter1138> it's ok, you voted for it
16:54:24 <peter1138> (collective you, obviously)
17:37:11 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:44:49 <supermop_> what the hell is MBs problem?
17:46:39 <supermop_> i try not to personally insult trump supporters, but i still cant understand why various europeans want me to be quietly happy with trump
17:46:40 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
17:46:48 <supermop_> maybe Eddi|zuHause can help
17:47:46 <supermop_> i mean if they dont care, dont write in the thread, if they like watching americans struggle, express that (i can understand)
17:47:53 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
17:48:08 <supermop_> if they support trump for some reason, idk maybe explain why.
17:49:20 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
17:55:51 <Lejving> I don't support trump but I'm for sure he won rather than hillary
18:00:11 <supermop_> glad to hear you support torture
18:04:37 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:04:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
18:04:47 <Lejving> can you give me some sources that he supports torture
18:05:07 <Lejving> and I just told you I didn't support him, but I prefer him over hillary
18:05:37 <supermop_> you didnt read the news on the latest executive orders i guess
18:06:04 <Lejving> no I'm asking you for it
18:08:47 <supermop_> secret prisions are back in style:
18:09:36 <supermop_> if you prefer from a 'conservative' news source instead:
18:09:44 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
18:09:52 <Lejving> I told you I don't support him, I'm not even a conservative
18:10:55 <supermop_> i'm trying to get out of you why you think this is better than a continuation of the previous status quo under Clinton
18:11:45 <Lejving> the clintons are the biggest crooks who ever walked on this planet
18:11:58 <supermop_> got a source for that?
18:12:59 <Lejving> clinton has routinely said things that she's disagreed on in the past but now agrees on
18:13:15 <Lejving> at least trump is always an idiot
18:13:41 <supermop_> obama campaigned in 2008 against gay marriage
18:13:49 <Lejving> obama was terrible too so
18:14:08 <supermop_> there is nothing wrong with politicians listening to their constituents
18:16:24 <Lejving> what is a constitutents?
18:18:40 <supermop_> if i am elected to represent 100 people it is my job to reflect their desires. if 60 of the 100 say they are against A, it is my job to take that into consideration
18:19:12 <supermop_> in two years if twenty of them have changed their minds, then it is my job to also take consideration of that
18:20:23 <Lejving> well is the president obligated to listen to these?
18:21:07 <supermop_> he should - he is an elected representative,
18:21:47 <supermop_> everyone in the country is technically a constituent of his, and it his job to work in their collective interest
18:22:18 <supermop_> not to be ideologically pure to some insane standard that exists in his own head
18:23:54 <Lejving> should and obligated too is two different things
18:24:23 <supermop_> of course there can be nuances of interpretation, but if the whole country shifts in its opinion, a responsible leader should consider it
18:25:01 <supermop_> Lejving: i didn't say he is obligated to, i said a responsible leader should
18:25:20 <supermop_> and i would not hold that against any leader who did
18:25:43 <Lejving> I on the other hand admire him to hold true to what he thinks is true
18:25:57 <Lejving> I'd try change his mind
18:25:59 <supermop_> that is the thinking of a child
18:26:14 <Lejving> I think it's the opposite
18:26:20 <Lejving> a child doesn't have his own thaughts
18:26:40 <Lejving> a grownup can listen to others and take his own decisions
18:27:05 <Lejving> your job is to make him think different
18:27:17 <supermop_> 'hold true to what he thinks is true' means not swayed by any outside attempts to change his mind
18:27:36 <supermop_> you are saying you would disrespect any leader who's mind was changed
18:28:56 <supermop_> well that is the exact case i used as an example
18:30:22 <supermop_> not to mention at this point it would be better to have Nixon in office than Trump
18:31:07 <Lejving> I disrepect any leader who changed his mind because the popular vote of his informers says something
18:31:18 <Lejving> I respect any leader who changes his mind based on fact and science
18:31:57 <Lejving> in this case it sounds like you're trying to make the point that he, obama, and any one else should change his mind just because his informators says something
18:32:36 <Alberth> trump just forbids science that draws the 'wrong' conclusions
18:32:50 <Lejving> then I disrespect trump
18:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Lejving: so the UK government is wrong to pursue brexit, just because 52% voted for it?
18:34:29 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1662
18:34:29 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01
18:40:38 <supermop_> Lejving: under that reasoning we should not have elected leaders at all
18:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7_: in "normal" countries, elections like this would have a runoff-election if none of the candidates got more than 50% of the votes, with only the 2 highest candidates participating
18:41:06 <Lejving> I barely think we should have leaders, so
18:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7_: which of course has the disadvantage that people need to go vote a second time
18:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> usually 1 or 2 weeks later
18:42:19 <Alberth> I always wonder whether people change their mind during that time
18:42:36 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
18:43:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: easy: 3 candidates: A with 40%, B with 30% and C with 20%, rest distributes among a dozen other candidates. A and B get to the runoff round
18:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: people who voted for C now vote for B, because they absolutely hate A, now it's A 40%, B 50% -> B wins
18:44:08 <Alberth> right, and "others" is so big that it makes a difference
18:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> or more like A 45% B 55%
18:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in a first-past-the-post system, A would have won
18:45:03 <Alberth> minor issues is that you need more than 2 parties to start with :)
18:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: in the american election there were at least 3 "viable" other candidates, each of which is frequently confronted with the question: "why do you want to steal votes from X candidate?"
18:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> a runoff-election would easily invalidate this question
18:46:55 <Lejving> what's it called when you have one for one and one against vote
18:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, never seen such a system
18:49:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:49:17 <Alberth> "complicated", I think
18:49:25 <Lejving> there's a word for it
18:49:30 <Lejving> thought it was netocracy but it wasn't
18:49:44 <Alberth> or "useless with 2 parties"
18:50:18 <Lejving> gary johnson don't count?
18:50:50 <Alberth> I don't even know who that is
18:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i think your reasoning is backwards. it's useless to have more than 2 parties without any of these mitigating measures
18:52:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's not even what i think is the worst part about the american presidential election system
18:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the worst part is this "each state's electors vote as a block" thing
18:53:21 <Lejving> garrymendering up the ass
18:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if a state has 3 electors, and 60% vote for A, 40% vote for B, A gets all 3 electors
18:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be way fairer if A got 2 and B got 1
18:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the people that vote for B in that state just get ignored
18:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> this also diminishes the effect of "swing states"
18:54:52 <Eddi|zuHause> because if a state is 10:8 or 8:10 doesn't matter that much
18:57:54 <Alberth> nicely designed to keep election results fully under control
19:01:14 <Alberth> and so you get a president that disrespects 50% of the population
19:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well currently more like 60%
19:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> of those that actually voted
19:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> which is also not a huge fraction
19:05:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and a lower fraction than in most other democratic countries
19:06:02 <Alberth> lots of votes just get thrown away, so what would you expect
19:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be a great success to get that figure down to 50%
19:24:51 <Wolf01> I've made about half of the diorama for march, I miss the cliff... not enough brown parts
19:34:48 *** supermop has joined #openttd
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27741 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt russian.txt) (2017-01-26 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> luxembourgish: 26 changes by Phreeze
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> russian: 1 change by Lone_Wolf
19:49:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
19:54:55 <peter1138> waiting for my lego to arrive :S
20:01:00 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
20:03:06 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
20:09:44 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
20:10:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:26:13 <Wolf01> andythenorth, seen last akiyuki GBC?
20:26:32 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
20:28:04 <Wolf01> Marble run with a high speed launcher
20:36:43 *** supermop has joined #openttd
20:37:47 <andythenorth> launchers are tricky
20:37:58 <andythenorth> are hard to get the right blend of friction + speed
20:45:09 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd
20:46:21 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
20:47:29 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
20:59:18 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
20:59:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
21:01:05 <supermop_> internet still not fixed
21:01:21 <Wolf01> Nope, got disconnected today too
21:02:21 <frosch123> supermop_: net neutrality was canceled. it now gives precedence to twitter
21:02:50 <supermop_> noo my eclair is melting
21:02:56 <supermop_> forgot i got eclair
21:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> does not sound healthy
21:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what an eclair is
21:04:09 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: unhealthy
21:04:09 <frosch123> me neither, but there is a german wiki page about them
21:04:18 <frosch123> haven't seem them anywhere though
21:04:29 <Wolf01> I ate some of them in the past
21:04:40 * andythenorth wonders if a custard slice crosses cultural borders
21:05:06 <supermop_> andythenorth: in oz, not here
21:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have seen these before
21:05:39 <Wolf01> I think custard slice is everywhere
21:06:01 <andythenorth> it’s not millefuieleleele or anything
21:06:13 <andythenorth> just custard and some very thin pastry to compress the custard
21:07:52 <Wolf01> Oh, then maybe not, but I remember I've seen a bloat of custard wrapped in 2 thin layers
21:09:40 <Wolf01> Mom makes a similar thing, a sort of magic cake which with the same cream ends up in 3 different layers
21:10:08 <Wolf01> Yes... it's even called magic cake
21:19:23 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: can't read that page, pops up a full screen layer forcing me to enter my email adress
21:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: even if that works, a site like that should not get my traffic/attention at all
21:21:42 <__ln__> interestingly there's no popup for me, even though i haven't disable anything
21:22:08 <Wolf01> I browse the web without javascript, I enable it selectively on the sites I trust, no popups and annoying cookie law widgets
21:25:24 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: never seen a pop up on WaPo before, maybe only in DE?
21:25:29 <frosch123> hmm, "custard" is translated to "english creme"
21:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: whatever it is, it smells an awful lot like phishing
21:29:58 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: anyway, the gist of the page is that people are seriously speculating whether trump has a psychological condition that prevents him from distinguishing what is true and what is his imagination.
21:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but is the world (or at least the US) better off with an ultra-right mike pence as president?
21:33:20 <andythenorth> BBC News front page is such fun again
21:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> is that different from any other news front page?
21:33:39 <andythenorth> Trump, Pigoons (pig embryos with human genes), Doomsday clock moves
21:34:32 <andythenorth> there’s no dopamine hit on a day when it’s just Brexit procedure all day long
21:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well... spiegel.de is different: Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Schulz, Erdogan
21:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ... Refugees, illegal car racing, right-wing stuff
21:35:29 <andythenorth> what we get to test, is does the US constitution actually limit the powers of a tyrant by design
21:35:37 <andythenorth> it’s an interesting experiment
21:36:25 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
21:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Schulz being the former president of european parliament, who is now running for chancellor against merkel
21:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> which was a surprise move announced yesterday, or so
21:38:40 <supermop_> oooh illegal car racing
21:39:08 <andythenorth> will Merkel be replaced? o_O
21:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: unlikely, but they still try
21:39:36 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: as much as i hate pence, we've had far right religious presidents before (Reagan) and they did cause damage
21:39:59 <supermop_> but at this point maybe take the damage over all out calamity
21:41:06 <andythenorth> supermop_: are you in the ‘it’s nuclear armageddon’ camp? Or are you thinking social calamity?
21:41:19 <supermop_> andythenorth: more social
21:41:49 <supermop_> although i think trump might be the first person who actually wants to use Nuclear weapon in several decades
21:42:54 <andythenorth> according to anecdote, secret orders were passed to the US military to ignore nuclear strike orders from Nixon
21:43:01 <andythenorth> he wanted to nuke N Korea iirc
21:43:13 <supermop_> if we no longer have national parks and all news gets filtered between 'fake' news and official alternate facts
21:43:34 <supermop_> that basically is it for US and maybe Anglo as a whole civil soceity
21:44:00 <supermop_> we haven't climbed out of the social hole from reagan yet but its a hole that can be climbed
21:44:39 <supermop_> if there is no longer any standard expectations of civil democratic society, that's it why bother anymore
21:45:11 <supermop_> i heard a theory that that was a gambit by Nixon
21:45:27 <supermop_> to bargain with USSR by appearing crazy and unpredictable
21:45:38 <__ln__> does trump need someone else's approval besides his own to use nuclear weapons?
21:45:48 <supermop_> i don't see any evidence trump is playing the same game
21:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: trump cannot actually "use" the nuclear weapons, he just can issue the order (and nobody else has the authority to stop him)
21:46:27 <andythenorth> he has the football
21:46:29 <supermop_> sole authorization for use of US nuclear weapons comes from the president's 'nuclear football'
21:46:31 <andythenorth> with the launch codes
21:46:50 <supermop_> who ever has that case + the card with his codes gets to launch
21:47:20 <andythenorth> I find it hard to get scared about the nuclear scenario
21:47:34 <andythenorth> if I’m wrong, I’m only wrong for 30 minutes
21:47:38 <andythenorth> and there’s no upside to being right
21:47:53 <Wolf01> Btw, maybe Trump is really right, he says what he wants to say (what he believes in, not what others put in his mouth), he doesn't trust the secret services, he wats to make USA great again with some things which may work, while other things are pure nonsense outside of his head
21:47:56 <supermop_> andythenorth: it was assumed when i was a kid in that 80s that it was coming sooner or later
21:48:19 <andythenorth> supermop_: same here
21:48:30 <andythenorth> too many nights listening for 4 minute warning on radio
21:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you grew up in a totally different world...
21:49:03 <Alberth> as you say, don't bother, you're dead anyway
21:49:08 <supermop_> Wolf01: i've heard that it might be hard to impeach him for lying because he likely does not believe things he himself says to be false
21:49:10 <andythenorth> “when you dead, you dead"
21:49:33 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: reagan wanted to keep us scared and spending money on our side of the wall
21:50:30 <supermop_> during the cuban missle crisis, my dad made a few dollars betting his playmate each day that they would not be nuked that day
21:50:31 <Wolf01> supermop_, that's what I thought, he doesn't lie, he's just strange inside
21:50:55 <supermop_> his thinking being, i can't lose the bet, because if we do get bombed, i won;t have to pay up
21:51:04 <andythenorth> the further normalisation of paramilitary force in the exercise of government power is more worrying than a nuclear armageddon
21:51:07 <supermop_> so they kept going double or nothing all week
21:51:31 <supermop_> there is a lot more than the nuclear codes that worries me
21:51:48 <andythenorth> if it was actually funny, there would be funny irony
21:52:02 <andythenorth> the paranoid right are so scared the government are coming for them
21:52:11 <andythenorth> but the government they back might actually be coming for people
21:52:50 <andythenorth> because they thought Obama was moving to seize the states
21:53:04 <andythenorth> whereas Trump, within 1 week, threatens to send miltary force against the states
21:53:19 <supermop_> some of these black helicopters guys have been at it since the early 90s
21:53:53 <andythenorth> but it goes further back
21:54:12 <andythenorth> Trump is what the constitution is supposed to protect the populace against
21:54:17 <supermop_> there is a lot swirling around mormon offshoot extremists though
21:54:43 <supermop_> the movement in Utah that rejects the Federal gov't's right to own land for parks etc
21:55:05 <supermop_> is the force being the announce sell off of federal land
21:55:33 <andythenorth> that’s a narrative with deep roots
21:55:47 <supermop_> the western states with the most protected land, are the least desiring and able to manage it as state park land
21:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's something very weird in right-wing thinking. they often demand a strong state (or things only a strong state could do), just _this_ state is terrible
21:56:10 <andythenorth> the federal lands issue is a repeating cycle
21:56:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and everyone wants the perfect father, but few get one eh?
21:56:53 <supermop_> had a bizzare 4 hours once when cracked oil pan in middle of nowhere in Utah and waited hours for a tow
21:57:12 <__ln__> does the constitution stop states from declaring independent?
21:57:30 <supermop_> then rode 4 hours in tow truck cab with a guy not quite an upstanding Mitt Romney type
21:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> which is the entire point about the american civil war
21:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (the slavery thing was just on the side)
21:59:30 <supermop_> listened to this guy for 4 hours talk about being a sovereign citizen, breaking onto federal lands to hunt and joy ride, how the feds have no right to own land in Utah etc
22:00:18 <andythenorth> "No subject," said Henry Clay, "which has presented itself to the present, or perhaps any preceding, Congress, is of greater magnitude than that of the public lands."
22:00:39 <supermop_> __ln__: in some states they have now made it legal to run over protestors with your car
22:01:19 <__ln__> cool. and barely at all sounds like a quote from borat.
22:01:20 <supermop_> clearly that law is unconstitutional but it will take some people actually running over protesters for the courts to hear it
22:02:59 <andythenorth> earlier today I wondered how far he can go if his appointments aren’t confirmed
22:03:18 <andythenorth> for example, if enough of the GOP decide he’s loopy, or electorally damaging, they will withdraw some cooperations
22:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the german constitution has an article about legalizing violent action when the constitution itself is being threatened, but nobody is quite sure when that actually applies and is the right time to invoke it
22:03:55 <andythenorth> he’ll do it all himself
22:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> like "at this point in hitler's rise to power it would have been legal to shoot him"
22:04:47 <andythenorth> it’s similar to “you don’t know you need to stockpile guns until it’s too late”
22:05:10 <andythenorth> which isn’t much of a useful truism, but eh
22:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but before it is too late it's illegal to stockpile guns
22:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> like, in the german party that is the equivalent of the british UKIP, there's a guy who held a speech that could have been right out of Goebbels' mouth.
22:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and their party leadership decided to not throw him out
22:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and that party might get well over 10% in the next election
22:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which is in september
22:11:35 <__ln__> maybe the decades from 50s to early 00s were just an anomaly, and now every country wants to become a police state and increasingly want extreme right-wing leaders.
22:12:07 <Rubidium> well, we got a blonde wacko like that here... only problem is that he's the leadership of the party (which already has 10% and might become largest in March)
22:13:12 <Wolf01> __ln__ they saw what right made, and 50 years is a generation (or 2) where memory starts to fade
22:13:24 <glx> [21:06:06] <andythenorth> it’s not millefuieleleele or anything <-- mille-feuille (yeah late reply)
22:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but you have like 10 parties already... :p
22:14:02 <Wolf01> glx, "millefoglie" is easier :P
22:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: making becoming "largest" a way easier task
22:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: also, the guy here is already pretty high up in the leadership of the party, a direct confrontation with the current leader might become likely soon
22:20:52 <andythenorth> I don’t know why it doesn’t worry me, much
22:21:44 <andythenorth> there is some British insularity about it all that comes from not having been over-run by tyranny for several centuries
22:21:53 <andythenorth> not all Brits feel that :P
22:23:29 <Rubidium> maybe the fact that there are a lot of Indians in the UK helps a bit against xenophobia
22:23:54 <Rubidium> (especially those with different believe systems)
22:25:40 <Rubidium> in general it's a minority that screws things up for the majority
22:26:23 <__ln__> are you talking about minority of indians or minority of voters now
22:26:56 <andythenorth> oh we have xenophobes plenty
22:27:11 <andythenorth> but we are pretty unimpressed by demagogues and orators
22:27:17 <Rubidium> be it terrorists, dictators, the lack of power of the UN due to vetos, etc
22:27:28 <andythenorth> even Churchill was only tolereated for WW2, then lost electorally
22:27:36 <andythenorth> whereas France looks quite worrying from here
22:27:54 <andythenorth> as does Holland, Austria, etc
22:29:04 <Rubidium> or even how frantic people are about plane crashes... cars are much more dangerous
22:30:22 <__ln__> people act on emotions, and unfortunately politics also works based on emotions... decisions people base on things that they want to be true, but necessarily aren't true.
22:30:56 <andythenorth> like town growth in openttd :P
22:31:03 <andythenorth> which is not promoted by goods
22:31:20 <andythenorth> that analogy probably fails :)
22:33:54 <andythenorth> the internet provides vast social proof for common delusions
22:34:05 <andythenorth> that was previously only available in small tight-knit communities :P
22:34:36 <andythenorth> it should be closed up
22:34:42 <andythenorth> at least the bad bits
22:38:12 <Rubidium> all in all I think we're going the way of Waterworld and Idiocracy
22:39:26 <andythenorth> it’s possible :)
22:42:20 <andythenorth> but I meet so few actual real idiots in actual real life
22:46:57 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
22:50:55 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
22:51:08 <FLHerne> Hm, I meet my uncle every couple of weeks
22:52:05 <FLHerne> He's fed up of my being brainwashed by the BBC into believing that 'global warming' is anything except an excuse to destroy the remnants of British society
22:53:35 <andythenorth> the BBC is a corporate capitalist plot, out to paint the left as unelectable
22:53:42 <andythenorth> so he can rest easy
22:54:41 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i said a few days ago that trump kinda reminds me of the guy in waterworld that was played by dennis hopper, who ran the oil ship
23:27:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
23:39:14 <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: that guy seemed to be a more effective leader
23:39:53 <supermop_> and at least he asked the oil hold guy how much they had left rather than deluding himself
23:40:52 <supermop_> andy is gone, but a president can still be the executive without a cabinet
23:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: but they probably had an equally sophisticated opinion about the existence of global warming
23:41:14 <supermop_> technically he would then have to personally run all of the depatments though
23:41:40 <supermop_> but you can staff most of the lower levels of a department without any congressional confirmations
23:44:22 <supermop_> also Eddi|zuHause i assume you meant AFD - i am saddened that these right wing populist parties are already gaining ground in UK, FR, NL, DE, and Trump seems so eager to encourage them
23:45:37 *** orudge` has joined #openttd
23:45:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
23:45:43 <supermop_> when i first went to live abroad in the 90s i felt in awe of how people could work together across the world in the post-cold war era. that dream has felt like its been dying to me for a few years now
23:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: yes, but germany is quite a bit late to that development, actually... right-wing parties were already really strong in most other european countries
23:45:58 <supermop_> and it does make me genuinely sad
23:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> especially eastern europe
23:46:51 <supermop_> as a kid from a small midwestern town, going to live in Europe, going to school with kids from other countries, ethnicitis, religions,
23:47:02 <supermop_> was so eye opening and amazing
23:47:10 <supermop_> and now that is dead or dying
23:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think especially in eastern europe they're thriving off a general "the russians come back" fear
23:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> however, ironically, these right-wing movements get a lot of support from russia
23:48:43 <supermop_> im surprised how quickly in a 2-week stance the GOP here went from paranoid phobia of russia to loving embrace
23:48:52 <supermop_> once they decided to embrace trump
23:49:30 <supermop_> this is the party that called the USSR the Evil Empire...
23:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that was microsoft :p
23:50:23 <supermop_> microsoft in the 80s was the young gun fighting big evil ibm
23:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't know if that's still the case, but google search at some point redirected "evil empire" to the microsoft website)
23:50:53 <supermop_> you could say the same about google today
23:51:31 <supermop_> MZ is doing himself no favors suing native hawaiians for their land claims bordering his estate there
23:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, google clearly have an empire, i guess it's just a matter of time before it turns evil
23:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> however, i think in 10 years people will be like "remember facebook?"
23:52:38 <supermop_> many americans still generally think of gates as square at best, evil at worst, after decades of him giving his money away to fight hiv and malaria
23:53:09 <supermop_> whereas americans generally love CEOs who are outright assholes
23:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why they elected one for president...
23:54:44 <supermop_> it wouldn't be as bad if it was an asshole who was at least a competent CEO
23:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> a few years ago there was a study that people who were successful CEOs also had a lot of the same characteristics as psychopaths
23:56:06 <supermop_> trump isnt even that - its a total break with reality
23:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> particularly, they lacked the ability to learn from failures
23:56:59 <supermop_> another one of the theories ive heard in desperation to understand this madness is that he has his surrogates tell these blatant lies as a sort of purity test
23:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, if you put your hand on a hot plate, you from now on associate hot plates with something dangerous
23:57:33 <Eddi|zuHause> this feedback loop is diminished in psychopaths
23:58:25 <supermop_> its a test for followers to choose loyalty of independent decision making, a test for the surrogates to show they will go to bat for him even at the expense of looking ridiculous
23:58:42 <supermop_> and a test to filter out his critics so they can be dismissed
23:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, yes, but i don't think that's a thing particularly about trump, but a general society thing
23:59:29 <supermop_> we are going to end up with 60 million fervent supporters and the other 240 million of us written off all together
continue to next day ⏵
