IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2017-01-04
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00:14:13 <supermop> doing this instead of work
00:14:48 <supermop> if anyone interested
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12:10:29 <frosch123> supermop: there are separate underlay and overlay sprites. tracks are overlay, other stuff is underlay
12:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why, oh youtube, would you think i would be interested in "Top 10 celebrities who dissed Taylor Swift"?
12:57:42 <__ln__> perhaps that's the only video not containing music and therefore available in germany
12:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> they solved that.
12:58:27 <__ln__> admittedly i had read something like that in the news
12:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like two months ago
13:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (do i really want to click on that?)
13:02:21 <__ln__> completely sfw, and way better than the 3rd hobbit
13:13:22 <LordAro> "way better than the 3rd hobbit" not exactly a high bar
13:22:01 <V453000> germany not having much fun on youtube with music?
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14:49:32 <supermop> frosch123: that's a layered psd file here, with separate tracks and ground
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15:04:01 <supermop> hmm why is there a purple pixel on the chips mud tile
15:08:14 <supermop> chips sources have a deprecated sand tile
15:08:26 <supermop> i assume to replace mud in desert
15:09:56 <supermop> also tram tracks set into mud look pretty weird without any trackbed
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15:26:10 <supermop> do i need to provide separate level crossing sprites, base set style?
15:36:57 <frosch123> level crossing belong to the railtype
15:40:58 <supermop> so just the regular flat bits, slopes, junctions, 6 depot sprites...
15:44:12 <frosch123> you also need bridges and drive-in stop underlays (unless tram)
15:45:18 <supermop> bridges as in the whole bridge, or the deck that get underlaid onto the bridge?
15:45:47 <frosch123> the overlay that is drawn over the bridge graphics
15:45:58 <frosch123> it is slightly narrower than the regular road
15:46:56 <supermop> well clearly i dont want that to be mud
15:47:53 <supermop> can i just reuse the base set bridge overlays
15:48:16 <supermop> as in can i not provide and fall back on them?
15:49:08 <frosch123> no, bridge overlays are required
15:51:29 <supermop> ok well ogfx ones are gpl so ill use those for now
15:51:48 <supermop> can't think of any reason why i'd want them to look distinct
15:52:18 <supermop> but dont need sidewalks or tunnels?
15:52:36 <frosch123> all the nrt sprites are drawn on top of the regular sprites
15:52:42 <frosch123> so, just make the bridge overlays transparent
15:52:48 <frosch123> and you will see the regular bridge
16:06:33 <supermop> what exactly is HAUL road supposed to be
16:07:25 <supermop> is it a specially strong road for very heavy trucks, or is the pavement less thick because it is for mining trucks with high flotation tires?
16:09:08 <frosch123> i think it is strong underground, but no fancy surface
16:10:08 <supermop> so in a muddy or cobblestone yard area, the HAUL trucks would still need special pavement, and not drive on the dirt/bricks
16:10:58 <frosch123> HAUL vehicles cannot drive on any other road, regular vehicles cannot drive on HAUL
16:11:08 <frosch123> off-road vehicles which can drive on dirt, can also drive on HAUL
16:11:39 <supermop> but haul vehicles cannot drive off road
16:12:10 <supermop> so any additional type of haul road, needs to also be reinforced like Haul
16:13:02 <supermop> maybe i'll draw it as a concrete slab then
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16:32:53 <supermop> the isr truck parking stripes are not consistent
16:33:26 <supermop> means i need to draw my own
16:36:55 <supermop> in \ direction the caution stripes go away from the roadway, and in / direction the stripes go towards the roadway
16:38:54 <Alberth> stripes are a bit indecisive :)
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17:32:21 <supermop> i wonder if chips asphalt stripes should be yellow like isr, or white to look more british
17:34:08 <Alberth> given its author, my guess is the latter
17:34:38 <frosch123> andy uses ae terms all the time
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18:19:02 <supermop> now to make some isr slopes
18:20:07 <Alberth> isr is with all those high platforms in the shape of a silo, etc?
18:20:27 <Alberth> so you can't even see the train? ;p
18:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't thonk i've played in english since the TT demo
18:24:25 <supermop> Alberth: yeah it has those, but i mostly use a lot of the low gravel freight yard tiles
18:25:04 <supermop> people seem to like to use it and matching newobjects to build harbors and terminals
18:25:24 <supermop> so it might look nice to have a road type that looks like part of the yard
18:26:17 <supermop> now.. how to paint stripes on stones and mud
18:34:27 <supermop> i thought about that.. survey stakes with orange or magenta tape between
18:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> just put tyre tracks in the mud?
19:12:20 <supermop> turn the tram tracks dark brown in photoshop?
19:42:53 <supermop> "There are no vehicles which require obth 3rd rail and catenary"
19:44:44 <supermop> can road or rail types not yet provide a specific foundation?
19:45:16 <frosch123> no, but could add that to the todo list
19:46:05 <supermop> not sure it is needed yet, but maybe someone someday would like it
19:46:13 <Wolf01> I don't undertand clearly the example 2, I mean the concept yes, but the sentence is a bit twisted
19:46:54 <Wolf01> Maybe just use labels instead of the dscription
19:47:01 <Alberth> Roadtype and Tramtype labels: independently of each other next to each other in the same game and NewGRF. -> independently of each other, in the same game or in the same NewGRF.
19:48:45 <Wolf01> Also, I would like to reason more on the roadsides, I would like to have country roads with trees :P
19:49:20 <Alberth> default openttd labels should specify whether they allow level crossings
19:49:22 <supermop> i would maybe lose the language about future noclip vehicles
19:49:23 <Wolf01> Maybe is possible to draw the fence as trees, but it's a bit forced
19:50:17 <supermop> as the example states, pursuing elevated railways as a type of ground level tram fails in ways users would not expect
19:50:29 <Alberth> last 2 sentences of the Roadtype and Tramtype labels need more explanation imho
19:50:41 <supermop> eg no tram under monorail etc
19:51:09 <Rubidium> frosch123: have you done a replace all of some word to Roadtype? I'm seeing quite a few places where there's inconsistent casing, e.g. FEAT_RoadtypeS, Roadtype_FLAG_CATENARY, powered_Roadtype_list
19:53:51 <Rubidium> regarding building by towns, shouldn't (European) towns (re)build old-style roads within inner cities? After all, in most old city centres there's mostly cobblestones and the likes
19:53:54 <Alberth> Compatibility/Poweredness says you have to specify compatibility, perhaps show the specification of that? now the text bullits seem to be the specification to me
19:55:15 <Alberth> I'd keep vehicletypes out of tram & road types, especially as it's future
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19:59:07 <frosch123> Alberth: no idea how to word it differently
19:59:32 <Alberth> Global NewGRF stuff, NML: "Roadtypetable" <- lowercase R, I think?
19:59:42 <frosch123> removing the vehicle-only type would mean to remove example 2, and i think combining vehicle and track types makes it more easy to understand
19:59:45 <Alberth> frosch123: the "need more explanation" ?
20:00:49 <frosch123> Alberth: i fixed the capitalisation already, reload :)
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20:04:57 <Alberth> NewGRF headings like "Road-/Tramtype translation table:" make it italic, so it doesn't look like normal text
20:05:42 <Alberth> or make NFO & NML a table
20:07:33 <Alberth> leave example 2 in, it's in the TODO list :)
20:08:42 <supermop> i am making chips roads
20:08:57 <Alberth> hmm, not entire "TODO", there is also "current status"
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20:14:17 <supermop> not crazy about white paint onchips cobble
20:14:29 <andythenorth> I don’t follow the transitivity, the diagram seems at odds with the text to me :)
20:14:44 <andythenorth> supermop: do white stones :P
20:14:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean i shall add all the arrows?
20:15:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: the example is unclear to me because the compatibility lists aren’t shown
20:15:48 <andythenorth> how does OFFR drive on ELRD?
20:16:18 <frosch123> so another table with ! Roadtype !! Powered roadtype list ! ?
20:17:54 <supermop> andythenorth: was thinking cobbles maybe get stone curbs or gutters?
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20:19:21 <supermop> and HAUL on cobble, if needed, gets concrete slab
20:22:29 <andythenorth> something else that I think will come up, judging by forums, is confusion about tram catenary powering road and vice versa
20:23:01 <andythenorth> it’s maybe not obvious that catenary is (1) just graphics, not power (2) that tram and road power are orthogonal
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20:23:25 <andythenorth> otherwise done? o_O :)
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20:26:36 <Alberth> your graph contradicts with the "is not transitive" notion :p
20:28:24 <andythenorth> the table shows how it works
20:28:32 <andythenorth> *types, never confusing, ever :P
20:28:44 <andythenorth> whoever made that rocket science spec, should not be allowed near rockets
20:42:06 <supermop> are one way arrows, do not enter graphics, etc provided by road type?
20:43:03 <frosch123> i don't quite see the value in them currently
21:04:07 <supermop> american road set uses a bulldozer and hole as 'do not enter'
21:04:56 <supermop> but an urban city street might look better with bollards and pedestrian area, or sign for do not enter
21:05:16 <supermop> and dirt road might look nicer with gate or cattle grid
21:06:32 <supermop> at any rate, painting white arrows on a dirt road looks a bit odd
21:14:39 <Alberth> one-way roads don't have much meaning anyway
21:15:16 <Alberth> it's not like you suddenly get the double capacity
21:15:42 <V453000> but yeah one way roads are nice only for better control/system
21:15:57 <Alberth> depending on how you look at it, but yep :)
21:16:46 <Alberth> you could make one tile of asphalt, and put the arrow on that :)
21:17:43 * andythenorth thinks one-way-roads are 100% useless
21:17:50 <andythenorth> I’ve tried them a lot
21:18:06 <andythenorth> with RVs, you either have enough station bays, or you don’t
21:18:07 <_dp_> they're useful for trapping vehicles ^^
21:18:10 <supermop> i use them to keep buses wandering over level crossings
21:18:12 <andythenorth> there are no routing tricks afaict
21:19:10 <V453000> but it's generally just fucking with penalties
21:19:13 <andythenorth> “screenshots or it didn’t happen” :P
21:20:09 <V453000> self regulating road station
21:20:36 <V453000> all RVs wait together and then go load all at the same time
21:21:10 <V453000> occupied bus stops can serve as penalties so they make other vehicles go elsewhere
21:21:27 <V453000> with 1way roads you can just control the flow better
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21:39:56 <supermop> mostly i use the do not enter in towns
21:40:44 * andythenorth just builds trucks and sends them places
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21:43:28 <supermop> where it might look nice to have a level crossing, but i dont want anything wandering over it
21:46:55 * andythenorth never thought of that
21:47:24 <andythenorth> I pretty much bridge or plant signs to stop the RV destruction
21:47:35 <andythenorth> crossings that are banned to articulated vehicles? o_O
21:47:57 <supermop> sometimes bridge looks tacky in a quaint little town
21:48:25 <supermop> as does a giant red circle on the road
22:02:19 <supermop> i understand it might be a low priority
22:38:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: i added a post to the forum thread, do you want to add a link to the first post?
22:58:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: will do now
22:59:24 <andythenorth> also, afaict, grfcodec just works
22:59:34 <andythenorth> that’s as expected?
22:59:43 <frosch123> yes, we do not care about nforenum
23:09:54 <supermop> frosch123: nice image
23:10:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks for the docs
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23:24:36 <supermop> now only v is left to tell me my ideas are crazy
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23:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i could tell you your idea is crazy
23:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but i am usually of the opposite opinion from V
23:47:55 <supermop> well each of you usually will tell me my idea is crazy for opposite reasons
23:53:08 <Lejving> can we seriously get a checkbox to turn off bridge speed similar to wagon speed
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