IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-09-06
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00:07:42 *** Lamp-_ is now known as Lamp-
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00:18:32 <Samu> who's a signal expert, on the code side of things that is
00:19:18 <FLHerne_> Samu: PBS are path-signals, the ones with track reservations
00:21:40 <Samu> and this line in the code
00:23:21 <Samu> EnsureNoVehicleOnGround is the problem
00:23:30 <Samu> there is a ship on there
00:23:45 <Sylf> isn't that the same thing as a train being on the other half tile?
00:24:07 <Samu> no, it checks the tile for any vehicle
00:24:47 <Samu> and that tile can have a ship, and it may ruin the signal state somehow, i'm not sure how severe it will be
00:25:43 <Samu> but i'm not an expert on signals, so i don't know
00:29:52 <Samu> just wanted to bring it to your attention, but I guess it's gonna get lost, what do I do to report this issue?
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00:34:59 <Guest941> Not knowing the code, I can't see how that works with two diagonal rail tracks either
00:35:09 *** Guest941 is now known as FLHerne_
00:35:27 <FLHerne_> But someone would definitely have noticed if it didn't :P
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00:38:37 <Samu> ah, i guess i understand
00:40:09 <Samu> well i'm moving on to what I was doing
00:58:59 <Samu> hmm rail conversion with a ship on the tile
01:02:27 <Samu> rail isn't converted if there is a ship in the tile
01:14:49 <Samu> I think EnsureNoVehicleOnGround should be enhanced
01:15:13 <Samu> EnsureNoVehicleOnGround(tile, vehicle_type
01:15:45 <Samu> EnsureNoVehicleOnGround(tile, ignore_ships = true)
01:20:43 <Samu> ensurenotrainontrackbits is better in this situation, i think the fix is easier than I thought
01:25:55 <Samu> CommandCost ret = EnsureNoTrainOnTrackBits(tile, GetTrackBits(tile));
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03:53:32 <Samu> now i'm off to bed, cyas
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13:02:07 <Samu> why is &EnsureNoShipProc on rail_cmd.cpp and not on vehicle.cpp :(
13:10:54 <Samu> darn rail tiletypes ruining dock placement
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13:23:48 <Samu> GetRailGroundType returned RAIL_GROUND_BARREN (0) RailGroundType
13:24:20 <Samu> why is it not returning RAIL_GROUND_WATER
13:26:10 <Samu> that rail, isn't the ground type RAIL_GROUND_WATER? why is it getting RAIL_GROUND_BARREN ?
13:27:50 <Samu> ahhhhh, nevermind, my bad
13:28:03 <Samu> I was asking the wrong tile
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14:08:58 <Samu> i always fail, always have to post a correction
14:31:38 <Samu> a patch that depends on another patch to make sense
14:31:54 <Samu> oh well... doesnt' matter
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14:51:03 <Flygon> Can't find a 2CC vehicle list that has the alpha1 vehicles. The lists are for the older .grfs, without the trains between Le Belge and American
15:27:59 <Wolf01> I need to prepare some wall layouts which can integrate with rails, belts and pipes...
15:31:51 <V453000> what do you mean integrate?
15:33:20 <Wolf01> I have standard sizes for railways and concrete paths
15:33:53 <Wolf01> Also defences along walls are placed in some ways which allow gates
15:35:03 <Wolf01> But not everything could be placed without some manual changes
15:45:36 <V453000> THEN IT IS NOT AUTOMATED ENOUGH
15:47:08 <Wolf01> Also, I have a roboport grid
15:48:08 <Wolf01> There are too many units in Factorio, roboport areas, electric poles areas, underground pipes max length, underground belts max length
15:48:45 <Wolf01> Odd and even sized entities
15:48:51 <LordAro> > complains about the number of different units in #openttd
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15:54:19 <Flygon> There has to be something better than Le bloody Belge
15:56:52 <Wolf01> Pfffff 3 tiles on one side and 4 on the other :(
16:00:18 <Flygon> oh nvm a train just dropped that isn't Le Belge
16:15:08 <Samu> is it really okay to create a topic for every patch I make? :(
16:15:47 <Samu> i got 3 or more tiny patches, but i'm afraid I might infest the forum
16:34:45 <Samu> done posting, so it was 4
16:46:13 <Samu> there was another thing I'd like to post, and it's about that whole issue of ships going to innaccessible ship depots, I am unable to fix that on my own. Too complex for me to handle it
16:48:51 <Samu> then there is yet another issue, but I guess _dp_ is on it, about diagonal distances profiting more
16:59:53 <_dp_> Samu, there isn't much else to do about it, mostly needs decision not code
17:02:49 <_dp_> Samu, and since no one seems to care it's probably not gonna happen
17:05:46 <Samu> i wanted to try the speed penalty idea
17:06:09 <Samu> but seems it was tried and trains look bad with it?!
17:06:42 <Samu> i suggested the penalty on the entire train, not per wagon
17:17:58 <peter1138> is that the "train moves too fast in diagonals" thing?
17:18:16 <Samu> yes, but it also affects ships and aircraft
17:18:31 <peter1138> but nobody uses anything but trains :p
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17:24:34 <_dp_> peter1138, it actually moves slower, but not enough to outbalance manhattan distance increase
17:30:20 <Samu> if its easily editable, that is
17:31:00 <_dp_> or mb not slower... diagonal is 256 units, side is 192
17:31:47 <_dp_> 256 / 192 = 1.33 < 1.41 hm, guess it still means it's faster %)
17:32:56 <Samu> it's 33% faster, is that it?
17:36:16 <_dp_> Samu, nah, 6% faster compared to euclidean
17:37:15 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 0.888888888889
17:37:46 <Alberth> Dorpsgek has it almost right, Wolf01 :)
17:38:49 <Wolf01> Just closed it because I was bored
17:38:58 <Wolf01> Dinner is already done
17:39:39 <Samu> on axis, the distance is 256
17:39:40 <_dp_> and 50% faster in manhattan distance (192/128)
17:39:41 <Alberth> no no, my dinner isn't done yet :p
17:39:58 <Samu> on side, the distance is 192
17:40:11 <Wolf01> Heh, I'm just running all around building walls and obliterating every single alien I find with my 124 destroyer bots
17:40:16 <Samu> ya, 1.5 the magic value i've been trying to figure out
17:40:25 <Wolf01> I need something different
17:41:49 <Samu> distance on axis is 192 or 128? confused
17:43:19 <_dp_> Samu, 192, diagonal = 256 = 2 manhattan
17:46:43 <Samu> axis = 192, diagonal = 256? diagonal distance is bigger than axis distance? weird
17:47:58 <Samu> what is the side distance a train has to travel on the track?
17:48:07 <_dp_> Wolf01, he probably thinks in screen coords
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17:48:50 <Samu> a track on the right side of the tile versus a track on the axis of the tile
17:49:15 <Samu> these are the distances I was trying to find
17:50:22 <_dp_> Samu, see GetAdvanceDistance@vehicle_base.h
17:50:59 <_dp_> that's for trains, for other vehicles it's somewhere else I think
17:51:24 <Alkel_U3> Wolf01: and that's where Dwarf Fortress comes in
17:53:32 <Wolf01> I was more like "that's where C# comes in"
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17:56:32 <Samu> lets try absurdly low values to find out what direction this thing refers
17:57:05 <Wolf01> You should try with a hammer
17:57:22 <Samu> return (this->direction & 1) ? 32 : 256;
17:58:50 <Samu> oh, so lower value = faster speed, and that direction means on the axis
17:59:11 <Samu> and it is affecting road vehicles :(
17:59:57 <Wolf01> If you want to change road vehicles just make them slow down in curves
18:00:50 <Samu> road vehicles are fine (appart from those inconsistencies
18:00:57 <Samu> )but that's another matter
18:04:41 <Samu> return (this->direction & 1) ? 192 : 288;
18:05:02 <Samu> oops i mean 192*1.5 = 288
18:13:50 <Samu_> nop, something's not right t.t
18:14:16 <Alberth> 288 doesn't fit in a byte?
18:15:57 <_dp_> Alberth, 256+256 doesn't fit either
18:16:26 <Alberth> if you like to keep all bits, indeed
18:18:01 <_dp_> Alberth, nah, I just mean that it's being added to progress
18:18:17 <_dp_> Alberth, still can break somewhere else though %)
18:18:19 <Samu_> 256 is the maximum value?
18:20:44 <Samu_> return (this->direction & 1) ? (256 * 3) / 2 : 256;
18:21:51 <Samu_> or, instead of 256, 255
18:22:02 <Samu_> 255/1.5 = 170, no decimals
18:22:47 <Samu_> testing return (this->direction & 1) ? 170 : 255;
18:24:04 <_dp_> Samu_, none of this makes any sense to me :p
18:24:45 <Samu_> well, instead of making vehicles slower on diagonals, i'm making them faster on the axis
18:25:05 <_dp_> Samu_, if you want equal speed in manhattan do 1:2 ratio
18:28:08 <_dp_> Samu_, and leave 256 to keep max income unchanged
18:28:20 <_dp_> Samu_, so, basically it's 128:256
18:30:08 <Samu_> with 256, i'd need a way to get 170.66666
18:30:24 <Samu_> but maybe this test is pointless, let me try this first
18:32:18 <_dp_> Samu_, it's distance, you multiply it by 1.5 not divide
18:34:06 <Samu> strange, i'm not getting desired results
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18:39:53 <Samu> 192 : 256; on axis - 143 days traveling, on diagonal - 99 days traveling
18:42:23 <Samu> 170 : 256; on axis - 126 days traveling, on diagonal - 98 days traveling
18:42:41 <Samu> doesn't seem to make sense... what the heck
18:43:25 <Samu> let's try 128 : 256 like u said
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18:45:32 <supermop> time to build a new non-grid transport game i guess?
18:45:57 <Samu> 128 : 256; on axis - 95 days traveling, on diagonal - 95 days traveling
18:46:17 <Samu> but... the days traveling on the side also decrease, why's that?
18:47:40 <Samu> the trains are travelling at 5 km/h
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18:48:02 <Samu> over a manhattan distance of 20 tiles
18:51:24 <Samu> meanwhile, I found a bug on my easier dock placement patch
18:51:58 * andythenorth wonders what next
18:52:04 <andythenorth> probably un-breaking nml :(
18:53:15 <Samu> andythenorth, are u good at drawing logic? what gets drawn in front of what?
18:56:11 <andythenorth> Samu: radical approach, remove locks :P
18:56:13 <supermop> andythenorth: andyhouses?
18:56:29 <andythenorth> houses are solved by default game, or by TAI
18:56:37 <andythenorth> I drew a house for opengfx once
18:57:02 <_dp_> Samu, oh, good luck fixing z levels :p
18:57:16 <supermop> also that's just a challenge to overengineer procedural houses
18:57:28 <supermop> Samu: looks like a fun ride
19:09:49 <supermop> can a house set define 1 house only?
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19:24:22 <Samu> i hate logic, i really don't get how it works at the first try
19:24:38 <LordAro> "i hate logic" ~ Samu, 2016
19:25:42 <Samu> docks are not tiles of type water, something is wrong somewhere, i was able to place a dock in front of the other
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19:33:49 <andythenorth> so can hg revert a commit?
19:33:58 <andythenorth> or do I just reverse patch from the diff, and commit that?
19:36:57 <Alberth> it undoes the last thing
19:37:03 <andythenorth> nah, it’s already pushed to remote
19:38:01 <Alberth> hmm, a reverse commit, should be possible
19:38:05 <andythenorth> now I need to fix my mess :P
19:38:16 <Samu> how do i do this test? "if the tile is not water, deny construction, but if it is not water it can be a buoy, a rail with water on the halftile or an aqueduct. but if the tile is water, but the slope isn't flat or with one corner raised, deny construction"
19:38:54 <Milek7> hg don't work like git?
19:40:43 <andythenorth> I get scared by docs like “ Note that this page no longer tells the whole truth. “
19:41:08 <Alberth> it's the top commit you want to undo?
19:41:29 <Alberth> start with making a clone
19:41:36 <Alberth> so you can make a mess without a mess
19:42:41 <andythenorth> it’s the top commit
19:43:17 <Alberth> make a local clone, then try a backout on the clone
19:43:31 <Alberth> looks like it should work
19:43:44 <Alberth> obviously, if not, you can rollback
19:44:23 <andythenorth> ah, maybe frosch just removed my changes
19:44:30 <andythenorth> this might be not necessaty
19:44:41 <Alberth> the joys of shared repos :p
19:45:08 <andythenorth> I wish we had a trivial way to fork
19:45:16 <andythenorth> wishes aren’t horses
19:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you already pushed to the global repo, don't do any of these history-altering operations. just patch -R with the previous commit and commit that as "undo the last change"
19:45:35 <Alberth> you have, make a local clone, hack, then push back to the mirror
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27655 trunk/src/lang/romanian.txt (2016-09-06 19:45:36 +0200 )
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> romanian: 2 changes by kkmic
19:46:04 <Alberth> the copy you cloned from
19:46:55 <Alberth> ie I have a clone from the remote repo, my mirror. I make clones of the mirror, hack, and push good changes back to the mirror, then push to remote
19:47:12 <andythenorth> do you have a separate solution for backing up your disk?
19:47:37 <Alberth> I run an rsync to the 2nd disk yes
19:48:00 <Alberth> but not sure what's that got to do with it
19:48:34 <Alberth> basically, I can have many clones from my mirror
19:48:53 <Alberth> hack on different things without getting in each others way
19:49:12 <andythenorth> my habit is to rely on the remote repo for backup
19:49:17 <andythenorth> and sharing code
19:49:29 <andythenorth> I’ve had too many losses of data to trust local storage
19:49:32 <Alberth> since it's clone on the local disk, many repo files are actually shared between copies
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19:49:56 <andythenorth> I need to reset my brain to work differently on this
19:50:12 <Alberth> that's fine, you can often decide it's good to push back to the mirror and the remote
19:50:40 <andythenorth> I want to never push to the specific remote
19:50:45 <andythenorth> in the case of nml
19:50:54 <Alberth> I mostly work in full patch queue, but there is no need to actually do that
19:51:41 <Milek7> andythenorth: data loses due to hardware failrue or accidental rm -rf? :p
19:51:43 <andythenorth> frosch123: you deleted my breaking of nml repo?
19:52:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, i stripped the branch
19:54:59 <andythenorth> seems github can import mercurial projects
19:55:42 <andythenorth> ach, it complains about matching authors to their github profiles
19:55:49 <andythenorth> ‘complains’ = ‘tries to help’ :P
20:05:01 <sim-al2> Check out that huge engine
20:05:12 <sim-al2> And advanced suspension
20:06:59 <Alberth> git-hg isn't working very well, I tried that too
20:08:00 <andythenorth> yeah, I’m not so bothered about the vcs flavour :)
20:08:07 <andythenorth> I just want easy forks, and devzone isn’t
20:08:58 <andythenorth> there’s quite a lot of inertia to working on a project, when it comes to putting code in public
20:09:50 <andythenorth> for my job, we just use a *lot* of feature branches, try not to ship broken code, and disable jenkins tests for specific branches which are expected to break tests
20:10:23 <andythenorth> I have to change mental attitude a bit to do ottd stuff
20:11:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: so I found some houses support in nml, using ID 0x12
20:12:00 <andythenorth> so 0x13 for roadtypes? :P
20:34:16 <frosch123> you can just reassign the town feature
20:34:31 <frosch123> it is most likely only used because everything needs some number
20:34:36 <frosch123> but it is not part of the output
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20:38:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you use some different device for irc yesterday?
20:39:21 <frosch123> for some reason the logs of yesterday do not work (they also did not work yesterday)
20:39:38 <frosch123> when i look at the logfile, all fancy characters are weird in your messages :p
20:41:11 <frosch123> oh nevermind, also eddi is broken
20:48:11 <andythenorth> ‘eddi is broken’ could be a quote :)
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20:55:30 <Samu> hopefully it works for good this time
21:07:36 <frosch123> did the capslock broke and he had to stop tweeting?
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21:24:34 <Wolf01> Back from the lego world
21:34:03 <andythenorth> no changes yet :P
21:36:16 <Wolf01> 'pull' is not a git command, did you mean 'push'.... do you troll me?
21:37:13 <andythenorth> what gave you that? :P
21:37:43 <andythenorth> is ‘pull’ not a default git command?
21:38:02 <Wolf01> Yes, it is, it's even listed on "more used commands"
21:46:42 <Wolf01> Do I need snakes to use nml?
21:49:15 <andythenorth> to develop on it, yes
21:52:52 <andythenorth> Wolf01: do you have snakes?
21:52:57 <Wolf01> I had problems in the past with different snakes lenghts
21:52:58 <V453000> always reminds me of my self-promise that I want to learn that shit eventually, at least some basics
21:53:44 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I will do the nml bit, unless I get stuck
21:53:47 <andythenorth> and provide a grf
21:55:33 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you’re on windows? o_O
21:55:46 <andythenorth> python.buildout probably works, but eh
21:56:03 <andythenorth> you’d have to configure paths and stuff, no idea how to do that
21:56:04 <Wolf01> I could use the ubuntu subsystem
21:56:12 <Wolf01> Is there for a reason now
21:56:28 <andythenorth> leave it for now :)
21:56:35 <andythenorth> don’t look for unneeded work :)
21:56:45 <andythenorth> look / get given :P
22:00:23 <Samu> one of my patches is making Terron ai crash with an empty array
22:01:30 <Samu> seems to be buoy related
22:04:00 <Samu> local qt = big_qt.GetIntersection(x, y, x, y, -1).pop();
22:04:07 <Samu> is there an array here or so?
22:04:21 <Samu> it crashes here with "empty array"
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22:07:19 <Samu> if it errors again, i bet it's the buoy patch
22:13:15 <Wolf01> Chainability is cool, but leds to a lot of errors
22:14:20 <Samu> i made buoy placement to error when there's a ship in the way
22:14:51 <Samu> it used not to give any error and just place it
22:15:41 <Samu> or maybe it's something else, but i suspect it to be the buoy patch
22:18:37 <supermop> i imagine this will find more us in a NARS game than in real life
22:19:13 <sim-al2> Apparently it's the Acela replacement
22:19:35 <sim-al2> There's also the potential for California to order it
22:20:49 <supermop> yeah seems designed to sell in multiple NA markets
22:21:12 <supermop> had been feeling like cali was leaning more towards hitachi sets though
22:21:29 <sim-al2> Yeah Hitachi looks good too
22:21:29 <supermop> all of their renders show blue and gold n700s or so
22:21:46 <sim-al2> Do they have a US plant?
22:22:12 <sim-al2> If they don't and Alstom does, that could hurt they chances
22:22:28 <supermop> not sure, kawasaki has more than one, alstom has one, siemens has one i think
22:22:53 <supermop> hitachi will build something fast once the rfp goes out
22:23:14 <supermop> but i didn't hear of anyone else bidding on this amtrak order
22:23:23 <sim-al2> There's also Nippon Sharyo making railcars
22:23:53 <sim-al2> I don't know that they would build high speed equipment, but they will be building commuter/regional stuff in short order
22:23:59 <supermop> NS focuses mostly on slow and heavy hauled stock it seems, mostly chicago stuff
22:24:26 <supermop> kawasaki and alstom seem to split the NYC stuff almost 50/50
22:24:52 <supermop> bombardier builds a lot for stuff out here too
22:25:17 <supermop> bombardier and siemens seem to split the light rail market
22:25:29 <sim-al2> The new NS bilevels are supposed to be much lighter
22:25:41 <supermop> but Cincinnati bought from a Spanish builder
22:26:03 <Samu> without the buoy patch and with 14 Terrons I am not getting the error anymore
22:26:04 <sim-al2> But they had a testing failure a few months back, just short of the strength requirements, so now they are delayed
22:27:05 <sim-al2> Bombardier builds a lot of stuff, including locomotives
22:27:36 <sim-al2> Siemens has big plans it seems, not just the locomotives but also new railcars
22:28:06 <sim-al2> Like the ones for Brightline, but i think they are angling for a big order from maybe VIA too
22:28:50 <sim-al2> VIA has a lot of old stainless steel cars that they would like to replace since refurbishing them is fairly expensive
22:31:32 <sim-al2> CAF has been building new cars for Amtrak, and I think will play a bigger role in the transit market too
22:32:56 <sim-al2> I assume that CAF is the Spanish manufacturer you mentioned, there is Talgo too but they build specialized articulated stuff mostly
22:33:24 <supermop> almost all non-acela, non-genesis services i see at Penn or yards in queens are the new seimens locomotives
22:33:46 <sim-al2> Yeah, the whole HHP fleet is out
22:34:13 <sim-al2> And almost (maybe all now?) AEM7ACs are out
22:34:35 <sim-al2> I think there's a few AEM7ACs doing stuff for MARC though
22:34:45 <supermop> tbh rarely saw HHPs past 2010
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22:34:54 <andythenorth> all the meatballs are gone
22:35:08 <sim-al2> Yeah, HHP8 relaiblity was crap
22:35:17 <sim-al2> All the DC AEM7s are gone
22:35:40 <sim-al2> There's a CPU maker called VIA, but the national passenger operator in Canada is called VIA
22:36:08 <sim-al2> For whatever reason the Acelas are more reliable, but supposedly still tempermental
22:36:18 <andythenorth> I have no RI locos, and no other passenger cars
22:36:21 <andythenorth> and I want neither
22:38:18 <Samu> retesting all 7 ship AIs, all at the same time
22:39:14 <Samu> i mean, all in the same world
22:40:12 <Samu> without the buoy patch of course
22:41:27 <Samu> wormnest isn't around :(
22:42:26 <Wolf01> andythenorth, purchase unitram from kato, I've seen it at the last model expo and I loved it at first sight
22:42:39 <Samu> i made towns grow very fast, let's see if they build on the right tiles
22:43:22 <Samu> a tram to transport students inside a university?
22:44:03 <andythenorth> my kids would like it, at least the younger one
22:44:09 <sim-al2> Samu, there is actually a few systems like that
22:44:49 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe I need some unitrack
22:45:03 <andythenorth> then I can fill this room without needing baseboards
22:45:33 <supermop> andythenorth: ho monorails
22:46:30 <andythenorth> kato track is expensive :o
22:46:41 <supermop> once at a japanese language meetup in melbourne,
22:47:09 <supermop> i asked a guy from a city in japan with trams, if they were called 'toden' as i thought
22:47:36 <supermop> he said everyone just called it 'ding-ding' denshya
22:47:54 <supermop> basically 'ding-ding electric train'
22:48:12 <supermop> best/cutest name for tram ever
22:50:00 <supermop> i wonder what will become of the meatballs
22:50:33 <supermop> i know marc has a few, but NJT neer really ran them i dont think
22:51:04 <supermop> and NJT is so underfunded i am sure they'd take 30 year old hand me downs
22:51:21 <Samu> this is the first time I put NoCAB and NoNoCAB competing in the same world
22:51:23 <supermop> metra doesn't use electric locomotives
22:52:18 <andythenorth> this room is about 3m x 11m
22:52:27 <andythenorth> I can’t afford that much track :P
22:53:49 <sim-al2> supermop, they do have the electric line though
22:54:11 <sim-al2> Not locomotives, but bilevel EMUS that look almost exactly like the regular galley cars
22:54:12 <supermop> its all NS bilevel emus
22:54:39 <sim-al2> Not to mention through running with the South Shore emus
22:54:54 <supermop> runs on street in indiana for a stretch, so maybe a big locomotive would be dangerous
22:55:19 <sim-al2> Street running with big locomotives happens all over the US
22:55:30 <supermop> UP - Northwest line should be electrified
22:55:46 <sim-al2> Although the South Shore ones do have to stop for traffic lights there
22:56:03 <supermop> already triple tracked with somewhat high frequency
22:56:27 <sim-al2> Normal US locomotives probably don't have good enough brakes to do that, but it wouldn't be hard to retrofit, albiet with increased brake wear
22:57:50 <sim-al2> Yeah, the problem is that the US freight roads are rather skiddish about having electric lines built over their stuff
22:58:13 <sim-al2> And I think Metra has some major budget problems
23:00:14 <sim-al2> GO Transit in Toronto is going to electrify soonish, which may help get it done in other places
23:00:29 <sim-al2> They have a lot of track, so it will take a whille
23:01:40 <supermop> could meatballs work for electric freight in the northeast?
23:02:07 <sim-al2> Most have been scrapped or are not usable
23:02:16 <supermop> coal unit trains at 100 mph
23:02:27 <sim-al2> The remaining ACs are better used on commuter trains anyway
23:02:42 <sim-al2> Coal trains are too heavy and have too much drag to run at those speeds
23:03:08 <sim-al2> The brakes used on normal freight cars couldn't handle it
23:03:16 <supermop> until we get hitachi to build us some new lightweight HSR hoppers
23:03:24 <sim-al2> There's no demand for it
23:03:46 <sim-al2> Lots of unelectrified trackage exists and shippers are fine with it
23:03:56 * andythenorth has run out of things to buy on ebay
23:03:59 <sim-al2> Also demand is dropping
23:04:01 <supermop> actually little demand for coal on east coast at all anymore outside of pizza ovens
23:04:12 <Wolf01> andythenorth, sop wasting money?
23:04:34 <supermop> andythenorth: i have a lot of cement at home, how about i cast a bunch of scale monorail rails and sell to you
23:04:47 <sim-al2> The other major problem is that Conrail tore up a good chunk of the non-passenger electrified lines
23:05:44 <sim-al2> Mainly because Amtrak charged a lot to allow Conrail's existing electric fleet to run on the corridor itself, and the locomotives were already aging
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23:23:10 <supermop> sounds like the acelas will be clapped out and scrapped by time new trains are all delivered
23:26:30 <supermop> Wolf01: would certainly make monorails cheaper to build
23:27:25 <Samu> OtviAI still has issues with ships
23:27:44 <Samu> the easy placement of docks is negatively impacting Otvi
23:28:33 <Samu> there really isn't much more i can do without negatively affecting gameplay from a human player point of view
23:29:30 <Samu> he is also placing ship depots in a way it blocks narrow passages
23:31:10 <Samu> he doesn't use buoys, and i allow YAPF unlimited distance, but he still got a ship lost.
23:31:32 <Samu> the problem this time is on YAPF
23:31:42 <Samu> it's not perfect enough to find the route
23:32:59 <Samu> i think overall, the balance is positive, he used to have lots of ships with only 1 order
23:34:27 <Samu> next AI I'm checking is DictatorAI
23:35:34 <Samu> he's also being negatively impacted by the easy dock placement :(
23:38:57 <Samu> 2 ships out of 50 are lost
23:39:14 <Samu> DictatorAI balance seems negative :(
23:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't sound like a comfortable ride
23:41:10 <Samu> nocab and nonocab seem to be doing fine for now, no lost ships
23:42:53 <Samu> terron is doing fine apparently
23:44:04 <Samu> transcute is doing fine too, for now
23:44:12 <Samu> and wmdot has no ships yet
23:44:19 <Samu> have to wait for oil rigs
23:45:39 <Samu> in short: easy dock placement patch isn't all that good
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23:46:43 <Samu> while it allows more docks to be placed, more routes found by the AIs, the AIs aren't ready to deal with it
23:47:15 <Samu> the water passage is closed upon dock placement, and the AI does not ensure that the passage is still valid
23:48:50 <Samu> otviai already suffered from this with his depot placements
23:48:58 <Samu> now it is escalated with docks
23:49:21 <Samu> i suppose I'm gonna revert this change
23:49:40 <Samu> too bad, it was a good change
23:57:30 <Samu> there is also another different kind of "AI" working
23:57:51 <Samu> so far i have not noticed any issue with it
23:57:59 <Samu> they are growing in the correct tiles
23:58:31 <Samu> i don't notice any water passage being closed due to town growth
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