IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-08-06
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09:24:23 <andythenorth> cargo metro train, 1 tile long (2 * 8/8 units)
09:24:34 * andythenorth has a value and is sanity checking
09:24:43 <andythenorth> equivalent pax metro is 240 pax
09:24:53 <andythenorth> equivalent cargo tram is 120 bags of mail
09:25:49 <Alberth> it's always not enough :p
09:26:40 <Alberth> lot of people in one tile, isn't it?
09:26:42 <andythenorth> I don’t find cities generate that much mail :)
09:27:07 <Alberth> although I don't have numbers about that
09:28:07 <Alberth> 120 is probably even an overestimate, but less makes it somewhat unbelievable compared to pax
09:28:31 <andythenorth> I have matched it to the trams
09:28:52 <Alberth> and it's a nice simple number, so go for it :)
09:28:55 <andythenorth> it’s a convenience to players, the mail vehicles are balanced same for trams / metro
09:29:14 <andythenorth> so you build your pax network, and then there’s no penalty or advantage wrt mail
09:30:08 <Alberth> I also always just add a mail wagon, as it's simple to add, and doesn't hurt
09:31:11 <andythenorth> do you use Iron Horse metro?
09:31:17 <Alberth> in airports, however, I find myself adding a dedicated mail aircraft, to get rid of it
09:31:50 <Alberth> I don't use metro much at all, and haven't played with iron horse recently either
09:32:18 <Alberth> but you've been busy, maybe I should try it again :)
09:32:35 <andythenorth> I was just checking I’m not ruining your play style
09:32:42 <andythenorth> I just removed a mail car from metro
09:32:58 <andythenorth> and made the engine carry mail
09:37:50 <Alberth> wouldn't that run the risk that "load cargo" in a city then loads mail instead of the industry cargo?
09:38:20 <Alberth> don't know what city industries you have though
09:38:43 <andythenorth> it’s ok, there are no wagons for metro
09:38:44 <Alberth> in default set, the bank would be an obvious example
09:38:58 <andythenorth> so the engine is the only freight cargo-carrying train on this railtype
09:39:04 <andythenorth> and is refittable to express cargos
09:39:30 <Alberth> ah, so it's a dedicated vehicle, that would work
10:01:43 <roboboy> Alberth: we got openttd to compile for Windows under Linux last night :)
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10:36:56 <roboboy> now to figure out which lib was breaking the build
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11:11:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: so the Arocs crane is useless :D
11:11:55 <Wolf01> Put there the 8258 one :P
11:12:11 <andythenorth> that is useless also :)
11:12:42 <Wolf01> At least is not pneumatic
11:13:14 <Wolf01> Maybe the logging truck one (I don't remember the number)
11:16:35 <andythenorth> geared ones are too slow
11:16:40 <andythenorth> technic ones are too uncontrollable :)
11:18:36 <andythenorth> technic / pneumatic /s :P
11:36:51 * andythenorth is playing OpenTTD
11:36:53 <andythenorth> to test Road Hog
11:37:02 <andythenorth> but I find I have to fix my other newgrfs :P
11:41:51 <Alberth> always one broken newgrf :p
11:48:09 <roboboy> aha, it seems the reason I couldn't compile last night was none of the cross compile libraries were in the right spot or didn't exist. or that's what I think from quick testing
11:51:59 <roboboy> I just tried compiling with zlib (to get a successfull compile, I have to leave all the libraries out) and I ran make with VERBOSE=1, http://pastebin.com/U11bagJr
11:52:29 <roboboy> that is the last few entries output to the console plus the error.
11:55:06 <Alberth> that's a missing header file
11:55:45 <Alberth> ie a missing -I option
11:57:03 <Alberth> header files specify the call interface from a program to the library, eg the data types and the available functions with their signature
11:57:27 <Alberth> library files (.so, .a, .dll etc) contain the implementation of those functions
11:57:40 <roboboy> I understand that from the bit of C++ I learnt
11:57:57 <Alberth> header files are used by the c++ compiler, library files are used by the linker (ld)
11:58:55 <roboboy> so if I understand correctly, someone's configure script is broken?
11:59:03 <Alberth> -I defines a directory to look for a header file (you can have more -I options), -L defines a directory to look into for a library file, with -l the actual library to use
11:59:50 <Alberth> an installed library, normally has both header files and library files
12:00:16 <Alberth> the question is thus where are those for the zlib that you used
12:00:44 * andythenorth makes ugly cargo metro trains
12:01:18 <roboboy> how can I find out which zlib got used?
12:01:25 <Alberth> secondly, how did you specify where ./configure could find its zlib?
12:01:35 <Alberth> my guess is in the .log file
12:02:05 <roboboy> I didn't give ./configure any help finding zlib
12:02:16 <Alberth> it seems to list the command that it used
12:03:02 <Alberth> executing pkg-config zlib --modversion <- mine says this
12:03:13 <Alberth> so try that command :)
12:05:13 <Alberth> pkgconfig zlib --libs for the library file
12:05:36 <Alberth> pkgconfig zlib --cflags-only-I for the include, probably
12:06:09 <Alberth> it's empty for me, likely because it's installed in the default include path
12:07:43 <roboboy> for --libs I get -lz and for --cflags-only-I it's empty
12:08:24 <Alberth> that would be the standard zlib, I guess of the Linux system itself
12:09:04 <Alberth> /usr/include/zlib.h is the header file for me
12:10:00 <Alberth> pkgconfig doesn't know you're doing a cross-compile, so you'll get the wrong results
12:10:46 <roboboy> mine is in ~/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8$
12:11:43 <Alberth> ./configure with --with-zlib=$HOME/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8
12:12:39 <Alberth> ~ may also work here, but ~ is a shell thing, while $FOO is an enviornment variable that works also outside the shell
12:12:49 <andythenorth> should I ban industries on mountains?
12:12:57 <andythenorth> I am trying to keep an open mind
12:13:00 <andythenorth> but I don’t see the case
12:13:20 <Alberth> it's not my favorite spot for an industry :p
12:13:36 <Alberth> dragging up all that cargo :p
12:13:44 <andythenorth> game is about building routes
12:14:01 <Alberth> yeah, it does pose a challenge :)
12:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what constitutes a "mountain"?
12:14:28 <andythenorth> anything above 2/3 of max height?
12:14:46 <roboboy> checking zlib... not found configure: error: pkg-config zlib couldn't be found configure: error: you supplied '/home/lg/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8', but it seems invalid
12:14:49 <Hiddenfunstuff> mountain is a bump on the ground
12:14:54 <Samu> i thought zeratul was much better at surviving, he isn't
12:15:02 <andythenorth> I think it’s a valid question
12:15:15 <frosch123> sounds like a gamescript
12:15:17 <andythenorth> ‘andythenorth likes forcing players to build uphill routes’ might not be valid
12:15:24 <frosch123> deliver cargo with maximum height difference uphull
12:15:33 <Alberth> so it's a valid style of game play to have industries on a mountain
12:15:34 <andythenorth> but ‘forcing industries to valleys because realism’ might also not be valid
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12:16:12 <Alberth> if you want finer control, you need a parameter
12:16:31 <andythenorth> yeah, there’s no obvious best
12:16:36 <Samu> who's currently in charge of trans?
12:16:36 <andythenorth> make a scenario :P
12:16:47 <andythenorth> newgrf parameter
12:16:58 <Alberth> roboboy: ugh, it tries to pkgconfig the argument :p what does the log say?
12:17:00 <andythenorth> new map format, with control over industry spawn points?
12:17:14 <andythenorth> openttd setting?
12:17:21 * andythenorth thinks it’s not a FIRS thing
12:17:45 <Alberth> NewGRF specs think otherwise :p
12:18:05 <Alberth> but indeed, it's questionable whether an industry set should do those limits
12:18:53 <Alberth> tops of mountains are flat, which is maybe why industries like them :)
12:19:56 <Alberth> executing /home/lg/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8 --modversion lol
12:20:03 <Samu> hmm i think i found a rare pathfinding bug
12:20:17 <roboboy> that's what I was thinking Alberth
12:21:52 <Samu> those 2 ships can't get to the buoy just next door, why's that?
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12:23:01 <Alberth> can't make the turn or so?
12:24:06 <Alberth> roboboy: RB did say something about hacking scripts yesterday, maybe this is what he meant
12:25:23 <roboboy> I think I will watch some video online and come back to this
12:25:33 <roboboy> thanks for your help again.
12:26:39 <Samu> a 2nd dock was placed right when the ship were entering that tile, and locked them
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12:44:49 <Samu> maybe a fix is to prevent docks being placed when there's a ship in the vicinity
12:46:26 <Samu> X - forbid placement if there's a ship
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13:04:19 <argoneus> good morning train friends
13:06:13 * andythenorth wants closable docks, like airports
13:06:20 <andythenorth> relocating a dock is silly
13:06:39 <andythenorth> ships skip to next order, and ships often have long orders, because bouys
13:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how does closing the dock help there?
13:10:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the reason for closing airports was that you only can move an airport if it's empty. that restriction is not there for docks
13:12:30 <andythenorth> stop all ships heading for that dock?
13:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: go to dock window->ship list->stop all button
13:18:35 <andythenorth> multi-stop docks? o_O
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13:49:07 <roboboy> and I'm back from watching video's
13:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what could video possibly own?
14:23:36 <roboboy> I would love to figure out which scripts need hacking to properly cross compile.
14:24:34 <MonkeyDrone> have you tried asking jesus?
14:24:48 <andythenorth> I’ve been talking to Jesus
14:24:56 <andythenorth> where is peter1138 when you need him?
14:25:33 <MonkeyDrone> trolling teh sheeps in the desert again i bet
14:40:08 <roboboy> maybe, I can get away with copying some files arround the system
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14:41:28 <Alberth> roboboy: config.lib is the actual code; if you follow zlib, you end up in detect_zlib() line 2687, and in detect_pkg_config() line 2699, that eventually does eval "$3=\"$pkg_config_call\"" which does something like zlib_config="pkgconfig zlib". That is used in 1668 and further, to set CFLAGS and LIBS
14:42:46 <andythenorth> shall I release Iron Horse 1.9.0?
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14:44:19 <roboboy> well the compile failed on zconf.h after copying zlib.h to the mingw include directory. It hasn't failed yet since copying all the .h files from my zlib directory to the mingw include directory
14:44:57 <Alberth> that's one solution, but not so maintainable
14:45:27 <roboboy> which version of OpenTTD was the svn titlegame saved with?
14:45:39 <Alberth> the official solution is to add -I/path/to/zlib/include to CFLAGS, and something similar for LIBS
14:46:00 <Alberth> extremely ancient afaik
14:46:17 <Alberth> load as game, then type "gamelog" in the console
14:47:03 <roboboy> I think I read 0.3.0 is one of the versions where the compresion library changed
14:47:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: well, done enuf thus :)
14:49:39 <roboboy> the compile failed with : /usr/bin/i686-w64-mingw32-ld: cannot find -lz collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
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15:07:18 <Alberth> the library files need to be found too :)
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15:11:10 <andythenorth> always be shipping
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16:12:47 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: the game log should tell you which savegame version the savegame had, and in the saveload code there's a comment that maps savegame versions to svn revisions
16:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (alternatively to gamelog, some debug output should tell you as well)
16:16:26 <Samu> uh, just found another situation where ships can get locked
16:18:43 <Samu> there's actually many of these t.t
16:18:55 <Samu> now that i look at it more carefully
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16:43:47 <Samu> what is the exact direction track a ship docks at a docks?
16:58:24 <andythenorth> Samu: do you have ‘disable 90 degree turns’ enabled?
16:58:34 <andythenorth> ships don’t / didn’t work if that was enabled
17:08:14 <Samu> it's during dock/depot placement
17:08:44 <Samu> they get locked to only 1 piece of track
17:08:55 <Samu> and can't turn to any other direction
17:10:59 <Samu> if something spawns at 5, 6 or 7, ship can get locked
18:45:35 <andythenorth> write some code? o_O :)
18:46:56 <Wolf01> I could do some voxels of your vehicles
18:47:26 <Wolf01> With flat colours because I only see 16 of them
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19:55:10 <SpComb> StarCraft HD vs StarCraft II?
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20:01:00 <V453000> never seen anyone with $1200 card care about power tbh :D
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20:38:08 <andythenorth> maybe I should colour them for more cargos
20:38:11 <andythenorth> what colour is rubber?
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20:43:00 <V453000> in ttd probably white :P
20:43:31 <andythenorth> that’s the colour for milk
20:43:37 <andythenorth> should be dark red or some other random colour
20:43:50 * andythenorth is going to automate tanker repainting
20:44:01 <V453000> like the the white tubes with brownish edges in original ttd set
20:46:05 <Wolf01> Steam.. sceduled update to 10.45am (tomorrow) 18MB, starts huge 2GB update before everything else
20:47:42 <Wolf01> 2GB for a game I don't play for about 3 years
20:48:12 <Wolf01> While the 18MB one is for a game I play often
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22:43:57 <Samu> C:\Program Files\OpenTTD 47,9 MB (50.315.758 bytes)
23:15:35 <MonkeyDrone> shift+delete -> enterkey
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