IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-07-24
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00:01:34 <Alkel_U3> I usually try to rush prerequisites for vassalage and build the oracle - having longbowmen early means practically invincible cities for a while
00:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually behind in the military branch of the tech tree
00:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, bowmen are very powerful, especially with imperial leader
00:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (the leader trait that gives first strike and city defence to bowmen)
00:05:09 <Alkel_U3> I think that's protective and doesn't do the first-strike bit, but I may be wrong on that one
00:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> protective, that might be it
00:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and it definitely gives you 2 free things
00:06:15 <Alkel_U3> you're right, it does grant drill promotion
00:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what did imperial do then? settler and walls build speed?
00:07:41 <Alkel_U3> walls are also part of the protective trait
00:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i always play as charlemagne, so i mix up these traits
00:08:15 <Alkel_U3> ah, great general emergence
00:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> sadly, fighting barbarians doesn't give you a general :/
00:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and i try to avoid wars
00:09:38 <Alkel_U3> I often play as Montezuma so I usually wipe out a few neighbors right from the start
00:09:59 <Alkel_U3> actually, I do that with most other leaders, too :-)
00:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> wars are always so destructive. i hate losing units, let alone cities
00:10:42 <Alkel_U3> but only on marathon speed, when I can be sure that nobody builds anything fancy right off the start
00:11:38 <Alkel_U3> snatching developed cities early on is much more economical then building them yourself
00:12:12 <Alkel_U3> they even often come with a religion center
00:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually do early start with a religion tech
00:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean advanced start
00:14:26 <Alkel_U3> I never tried that, always played from the bare start
00:16:06 <Alkel_U3> I didn't even play with mods, usually. Only once I activated a mod that extends the base game with futuristic tech, but the game ended before futuristic era
00:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i use a mod called "Better BUG AI", which leaves gameplay unchanged, but gives you loads of interface and AI enhencements
00:19:10 <Alkel_U3> that looks interesting, thanks for the tip
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10:06:16 <andythenorth> I have crippled tram TE, because the values were very very high compared to equivalent trains
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10:08:34 <andythenorth> it’s still too high, probably at least double the RL value
10:10:54 <andythenorth> comparing equivalent trams and trains (similar HP and consist weight), the tram with twice the TE of the train takes 8 tiles to reach max speed (35mph)
10:11:04 <andythenorth> the train reaches 40mph in about 4 tiles
10:14:51 <Flygon_> If anything, this does show how screwey OpenTTD's physics model is
10:15:09 * andythenorth is looking for the code
10:15:23 <andythenorth> I don’t mind screwy physics, just need to know what values to set
10:15:44 * andythenorth suspects there’s some friction coefficient or something that’s different
10:17:51 <andythenorth> friction coeff 15 for trains, 40 for trams
10:27:05 <Flygon_> Higher makes accelerating harder?
10:27:48 <Flygon_> It seems a bit odd, given even really weak Trams are really sprightly
10:28:16 <Flygon_> The W-Classes in Melbourne might seem weak by modern standards, but you can still trip over your passengers with the acceleration :P
10:30:47 * andythenorth is doing it wrong
10:34:52 <andythenorth> to overcome rolling friction I need more HP, not TE?
10:34:56 <andythenorth> TE is about going up slopes
10:35:16 <Flygon_> TE helps with acceleration
10:35:26 <Flygon_> But it is capped by horsepower
10:35:51 <Flygon_> A machine can have craptacular TE, but an infinite speed cap and moderate horsepower
10:36:03 <Flygon_> It will constantly keep accelerating, even if slowly, assuming OpenTTD physics
10:36:47 <Flygon_> If a machine has insanely high TE, infinite max speed, but crap horsepower, it hits a lower speed cap than the previous machine would
10:36:51 <Flygon_> With the same weight load
10:37:06 <Flygon_> I phrased that crappily
10:37:15 <Flygon_> TE is your acceleration
10:37:26 <Flygon_> But more HP allows for more powerful acceleration... ?
10:37:32 <Flygon_> Why didn't I take that physics class
10:37:39 <Flygon_> It all makes sense in my head :|
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11:13:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27623 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-24 11:13:51 +0200 )
11:13:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27616) [FS#6492]: Missed two version checks, and messed one up.
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11:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might very well be that train physics is simply calculated twice as often as tram physics, and that's why tram and train behave differently.
11:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also, for TE the weight of the front unit is relevant, not just consist weight
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11:38:02 <andythenorth> I can account for that by moving capacity or weight around
11:40:31 <andythenorth> for now I have simply increased tram HP :P
11:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, the max TE value as modelled by openttd describes the sliding friction, and limits the acceleration at low speeds. at higher speeds, HP is the only restriction to acceleration
11:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> sliding friction is probably not the right word
11:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the point at wich the wheels start to slip
11:50:42 <Wolf01> I always tought we used air drag... it's easy with cubes :>
11:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also air drag
11:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is only relevant at high speeds
11:51:43 <Flygon_> I thought Air Drag, for the purposes of OpenTTD, only occoured in tunnels
11:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just much higher in tunnels
11:58:54 <Wolf01> I've taken physics class, but I'm too lazy to make calculations, that's why I usually build one train and test it, if it doesn't work well (can't reach at least 95% of speed cap or takes ages to accelerate) then I'll add one or more engines
12:01:23 <Wolf01> Usually I just convert KN to Kg if I'm not sure if the TE is enough for my consist, just to get a suggestion on how many engines it needs
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12:03:20 <Alberth> oh, the morning has already finished
12:05:42 <Wolf01> And with convert I mean "multiply the TE by 100"
12:07:08 <Alberth> absolute TE is of interest? I just use "bigger is better"
12:08:16 <Wolf01> I think the TE in OTTD is a nice thing to have, but also enough confusing to whom doesn't understand these things, we should need a "your engines are able to move up to #Kg"
12:12:49 <Wolf01> mmmh, I need more home automation... "hey cortana, close windows and start the air cooler"... shuts down pc
12:12:49 <Alberth> all the model railway people will be sad though
12:14:08 <Alberth> haha :) I had a signature "Look ma, windows (on my computer) without Windows" for years :)
12:14:20 <MonkeyDrone> i enabled cortana 2 weeks ago
12:14:24 <MonkeyDrone> then i realized i don't have a mic...
12:14:46 <MonkeyDrone> it's too late to stop cortana, she might as well collect whatever info is left to collect ;p
12:15:30 <Samu> i got my hands on a celeron 1000
12:15:42 <MonkeyDrone> oh gawd, celerons
12:15:52 <MonkeyDrone> had to use one long long time ago, it was slow even for that time
12:16:27 <Samu> didn't try openttd on it, i should perhaps
12:18:38 <Wolf01> I'm thinking about disabling the voice feature on my desktop and enable it on the phone
12:18:49 <Wolf01> I think is more useful there
12:19:02 <MonkeyDrone> Samu, lol, it won't work
12:19:12 <MonkeyDrone> Samu, but you could set it up to run as a router or something
12:20:04 <Wolf01> I have a celeron 1000 as a server, running for at least 12 years
12:20:36 <Wolf01> I'll replace it with a SoC one day...
12:20:49 <Samu> it has a phone line connection thing
12:21:23 <Samu> compaq presario something
12:21:37 <Wolf01> Mine too, I use it as a fax machine too
12:22:24 <Samu> can't find a picture of it on the internet :(
12:23:06 <MonkeyDrone> AOL still uses dialup
12:23:08 <MonkeyDrone> you can hook it up
12:23:15 <Samu> i thought the internet had everything
12:23:38 <MonkeyDrone> i'm sure it's out there somewhere, the internet is like a blackhole. You gotta go deep, not just the tip :P
12:30:12 <MonkeyDrone> hahaha shit, i just locked myself out of my own vps server
12:31:49 <MonkeyDrone> wow, that looks old school
12:31:57 <MonkeyDrone> you can kill someone with it
12:36:14 <Flygon_> That's not a laptop, that's a weapon
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12:44:18 <Samu> i ran a few benchmarks on it
12:44:38 <Samu> it's the slowest thing I've tested
12:45:48 <Samu> superpi 1m - 189 seconds
12:47:00 <Samu> wPrime 32m - 215,931 seconds
12:49:01 <Samu> funny results from old hardware I got here
12:49:53 <Samu> Pentium 4 at 2.4 GHz is slower than Athlon XP 1800+ at 1533 MHz in superpi and wprime
12:51:52 <Samu> interesting results on Maxtor HDDs
12:52:51 <MonkeyDrone> 3.3kg, sounds liek a workout warmup machine ;p
12:53:09 <MonkeyDrone> the old athlons were more powerful than the pentiums iirc
12:53:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: model railway people I don’t mind, it’s the accountants I worry about :P
12:53:14 <Samu> 200 GB and 250 GB ATA drives are faster at QD1 and QD4 than my 1 TB WD Blue
12:53:18 <MonkeyDrone> amd was king back then
12:53:23 <andythenorth> $someone is going to turn up and report a bug with my trams
12:53:31 <MonkeyDrone> the intel sabotaged the fuck out of amd , life was never the same ;p
12:53:35 <andythenorth> ‘tractive effort is much too high’
12:53:59 <Alberth> add a disclaimer in the readme file :)
12:54:08 <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, if your tram can deliver cookies and milk everyday at 7am to my doorstop. It has enough tractive effort!
12:54:59 <Alberth> or name it "high power"
12:55:27 <Alberth> "brutal" comes to mind, but that's more V style naming
12:56:25 <Alberth> "XP edition" (extra power)
12:58:46 <Samu> there's some odd stuff with athlons as well
12:59:01 <Samu> athlon xp 2000+ is slower in some tests in comparison with athlon xp 1800+
12:59:57 <MonkeyDrone> were they hitting some limits in tech back at that time?
13:01:00 <Samu> i don't remember, i think memory speeds or latency was important for athlons
13:01:29 <Alberth> higher number sell better
13:01:33 <Samu> i know xp 2000+ and xp 1800+ wouldn't work on the same socket
13:01:50 <Samu> xp 2000 needed another motherboard
13:02:40 <Samu> xp 1800+ was my long standing gaming rig, of that I remember
13:03:10 <Samu> i had the 2000 and 2700 chip which i couldn't use :(
13:04:19 <Samu> xp 2000+ was used on the mobo that was supposed to use the 2700
13:05:37 <Samu> think it was 2000 that would lock on windows, i remember, and the other would get a bsod
13:06:06 <Samu> it was a asrock mobo, and asrock was horribad at this time
13:06:42 <Samu> eventually i figured out why the 2700+ was crashing, it was the USB
13:07:05 <Samu> as long as i don't use the usb on the mobo, the system has been stable ever since
13:07:17 <Samu> but i only figured that out when i upgraded to a core i5 2500, too late
13:08:07 <Samu> couldn't even use a usb mouse or keyboard, t.t
13:22:34 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 1800+: 71,609s
13:22:46 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 2000+: 75,890s
13:23:49 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 82,338s
13:24:24 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 93,174s
13:25:06 <Samu> SuperPI 1M Core i5-2500: 10,343s
13:26:35 <Samu> i thought i had the results of fx-8150
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13:32:22 <Samu> SuperPI 1M FX-8150: 22,141s
13:35:34 <MonkeyDrone> nothing wrgon with using ps/2 mouse and keyboard back in those times ;p
13:36:31 <Samu> i don't have results for xp 2700+ :(
13:36:44 <Samu> don't have access to that system here
13:37:08 <andythenorth> cargo cargos cargos
13:37:12 <andythenorth> I have blue tarps
13:37:20 <andythenorth> used for ENSP, FMSP
13:37:27 <andythenorth> should I colour code them for different cargos?
13:41:06 <Samu> wPrime 32M FX-8150: 10,085s
13:41:22 <Samu> wPrime 32M Core i5-2500: 11,294s
13:41:50 <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 2000+: 110,906s
13:42:09 <Samu> wPrime 32M Athlon XP 1800+: 121,359s
13:42:37 <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 158,417s
13:42:49 <Samu> wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 188,211s
13:43:10 <Samu> wPrime 32M Celeron 1000 MHz: 215,931s
13:44:11 <Samu> this time around xp 2000 is faster than xp 1800
13:45:21 <Samu> Pentium 4 really looks odd
13:46:37 <Samu> it didn't feel that slow, it seemed equivalent to the athlons
13:59:50 <Wolf01> I don't know andy... it would be cool to distinguish them
14:02:38 <andythenorth> Wolf01: there are at least blue, red, and some kind of green colour that could be used
14:04:10 <Wolf01> I don't have any clue on which colour could fit which cargo
14:04:38 <Wolf01> I only know bright orange for utility vehicles :P
14:05:13 <andythenorth> I can just test now
14:05:18 <Wolf01> Meh... it's not really hot today, maybe 28-30°C, but there's a fucking mist!
14:05:44 <Samu> The Tualatin-based Pentium III had shown superior performance compared to the fastest Willamette-based Pentium 4, and even the Thunderbird-based Athlons
14:05:52 <Samu> now those pentium 4 results make more sense
14:08:17 <andythenorth> hax using a ‘TARP’ cargo label?
14:08:23 <andythenorth> or do it ‘properly’ :P
14:08:49 <Flygon_> Hell, Pentium IIIs were the basis for the Core series
14:08:55 <Flygon_> And thus the i series
14:09:03 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
14:11:33 <Samu> I see, I was wondering why celeron at 1000 MHz was getting 215,931s, but pentium 4 at 2000 was getting 188,211s, not even half
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14:20:14 <Flygon> I have zero idea why they ever bothered with P4
14:20:21 <Flygon> It was a trainwreck from the very beginning
14:20:42 <Flygon> And it was obvious to everyone that it was physically impossible to gigahertz your way out of speed inefficiencies
14:21:02 <sim-al2> Oh, but I guess they thought they could do it when they started
14:22:53 <andythenorth> maybe for generic cargo I should use a 2CC tarp
14:23:02 <andythenorth> and player can choose colour :P
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14:25:01 <Samu> they say it's 31ºC here, but my room is at 29,2ºC
14:27:44 <MonkeyDrone> room temps should belower
14:27:52 <MonkeyDrone> good insulation on the walls
14:28:02 <MonkeyDrone> but don't worry, given time it will heat up ;p
14:28:23 <MonkeyDrone> andythenorth, it is always nice when players can chose colors :D
14:30:20 <Wolf01> If only it would be possible to set a different colour for each consist
14:30:48 <Wolf01> Just group would be enough
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14:35:23 <andythenorth> 'patch for that’
14:36:09 <andythenorth> shout when you have a patch to test
14:37:04 <andythenorth> grey gravel for unknown bulk cargos?
14:37:10 <andythenorth> or I have to stick a tarp over?
14:37:15 * andythenorth would rather not :P
14:51:16 <andythenorth> maybe someone could find all the bulk cargos that miss graphics in Road Hog? o_O
14:58:51 * andythenorth will go shopping, and hope some elves sort this out :P
15:34:09 <MonkeyDrone> hey guys, any idea on how to change a variable like distribution_pax on a running server in ottd?
15:40:34 <Samu> 7 years to reach 2051 for otviai
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15:51:38 <drac_boy> hi wormnest .. any good weather in netherland?
15:53:00 <Wormnest> hi drac_boy the weather isn´t too bad here maybe a little bit too warm
15:53:31 <drac_boy> heh guess we two have it similar then .. I'm in east canada
15:55:06 <drac_boy> up to anything atm or just a lazy day?
15:55:50 <Wormnest> ehh ntm running another test run of nonocab to see if there´s any more problems I need to fix
15:55:53 <Rubidium> depends on how east in Canada you are, I guess ;)
15:56:59 * Rubidium also wonders where "east Canada" starts
16:02:01 <drac_boy> have fun with that debugging then wormnest :)
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16:02:24 <drac_boy> I'm still very slowly working on a small grf set .. otherwise not too much else to say
16:02:44 * drac_boy on a note is looking to order a few oversea rail books in late august or so
16:03:21 <drac_boy> one of them should be interesting .. its re L D Porta and his steam locomotive developments
16:08:04 <Wormnest> thanks and good luck with finishing your NewGRF
16:16:26 <drac_boy> interesting list alberth
16:18:05 <Alberth> just two lists merged after removing the non-bulk cargoes
16:29:51 <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now..might be back later tho ;)
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17:09:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks :)
17:11:46 <Alberth> some are obsolete, not sure if you wanted them
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17:16:07 <andythenorth> I took the simple solution, I banned most of them from dump trucks
17:18:18 <andythenorth> I could provide recolouring if someone worked out the colours to use
17:19:07 <andythenorth> some of them should be covered cargos anyway, not for dump trucks
17:26:03 <Alberth> nuts doesn't have colours?
17:26:28 <Alberth> although some are, euhm, "interesting" :)
17:27:20 <Alberth> I like that, as it makes it very obvious what cargo is being carried, but not everybody likes that
17:27:40 <andythenorth> I am sticking to ‘realism’ for cargos :)
17:27:51 <andythenorth> parameter: cartoon mode
17:29:08 <V453000> today I am working on something so retrded that I need the windows magnified ._.
17:29:25 <V453000> NUTS has CC color stripes and wagon base colours to identify cargoes
17:29:39 <V453000> some wagons have no CC though, yes ... but that is rare
17:30:12 <Alberth> no magnify application in windows?
17:30:53 <V453000> that's what I am using
17:31:54 * andythenorth will explain the unsupported cargos as ‘gameplay’ reasons
17:32:08 <andythenorth> actually I can’t be arsed to pick 6 colours from the palette for them
17:33:50 <andythenorth> what does all mean? :)
17:35:03 <V453000> first image is all cargoes available (never seen together), other images are possible configurations
17:35:29 <V453000> I made this for myself so I could quickly get colours for all the possible variants, yet have unique sets of colours for all things
17:36:07 <V453000> PART hoppers are going to only have about 5 models, all just for wagon variety like self discharging hoppers, normal hoppers, some extra large hoppers, ... and cargoes will be done by recolour
17:36:14 <V453000> it's hugely file size saving, and future proof
17:36:30 <V453000> in case you get some stupid idea that you want 10 new cargoes for FIRS, I just add more recolour rules for them
17:36:50 <V453000> where if I want to update NUTS to work with new cargoes, I would shit myself sooner
17:37:08 <V453000> I am probably going to buy the new titan X yeah
17:39:35 <V453000> but not reference card, some aftermarket like from evga
17:40:17 <V453000> and the rx 480 can probably hold it's own vs. gtx 1060
17:40:17 * andythenorth will add bulk cargos if someone provides the palette indexes for the remap
17:40:34 <V453000> andythenorth: I am going to do that sooner or later anyway
17:40:39 <V453000> if you want to wait, it shall be done
17:40:42 <Samu> rx 480 loses to gtx 1060
17:40:47 <andythenorth> yours won’t be super-realism V453000 :P
17:40:59 <V453000> andythenorth: the cargo itself kind of is
17:41:03 <Samu> only beats it with performance/price category
17:41:05 <andythenorth> I demand you actually make real fertiliser and crap
17:41:20 <V453000> real fertiliser = brown shit?
17:41:27 <V453000> that's what I mean Samu
17:41:29 <andythenorth> I have 14 remaps already, but got bored of counting with my fingers on the palette in photoshop
17:43:15 <V453000> what does real fertiliser look like?
17:45:01 <Samu> poor amd, they can never win at anything anymore now
17:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd probably go with grey, but it should be transported in covered wagons anyway
17:46:54 <V453000> yeah should would might
17:47:26 <V453000> it's nice if players can see if the wagon is full or empty, and of which cargo
17:47:59 <andythenorth> for open wagons, I would like each cargo to be unique
17:48:08 <andythenorth> that is at least hard, if not ~impossible :P
17:48:22 <andythenorth> if you use a covered hopper, no cargo sprites for you
17:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could see it while loading, and close the hopper during travelling
17:50:35 <V453000> while it's loading you have a lot of other ways to identify it, like station sprites/name etc
17:50:39 <V453000> on the tracks you don't
17:50:44 <V453000> that's the most important place
17:51:05 <V453000> BUT, PART is going to have some boxcars, too
17:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> make a coloured stripe along the wagon that changes on refit
17:51:17 <V453000> they will be unique so you know what is there, but still
17:51:30 <V453000> well, coloured stripe doesn't really tell what's inside
17:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't show empty or full
17:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but it makes the cargo easily recognizable
17:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you don't know in which direction your full and empty vehicles are travelling, you probably have different problems :p
17:52:21 <V453000> to some degree, sure yes
17:52:35 <V453000> they can be going in many various directions
17:52:54 <V453000> like when you have 4 different food plants supplying 20 cities
17:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can still click on it to find out if it's full or empty
17:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really understand why that's a problem that needs to be solved
17:53:38 <V453000> it's not game breaking, but it is extremely convenient to see
17:53:45 <V453000> on first sight, no clicking
17:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you could have the empty wagons run open
17:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and only close the full ones
17:54:19 <V453000> the full ones are the only problem, really
17:56:39 * andythenorth has tankers that recolour for cargo
17:56:46 <andythenorth> but not empty/full
17:56:53 <andythenorth> because eh, don’t care about that :)
17:57:50 <V453000> sure, just realism > stylized graphics/gameplay
17:57:54 <V453000> for me it's the opposite
18:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well, the optimization problem here is to find stylized graphics without sacrificing too much realism
18:01:51 <andythenorth> I am repainting trams, using more of the good sprites and killing the bad sprites
18:01:57 <andythenorth> but they now look a bit ‘same'
18:02:00 <V453000> speaking of stylized graphics, I probably decided today that BRIX will not be white
18:03:19 <andythenorth> V453000: good call
18:04:40 <Samu> lesson learned: don't bully
18:05:40 <V453000> andythenorth: I got to the conclusion when trying to make snow XD
18:05:44 <V453000> I had some doubts previously
18:07:34 <V453000> it probably still classifies as stylized as fuck though :P
18:11:32 <andythenorth> when to use what
18:28:38 <ST2> that's a Pun (ninghead) xD
18:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen worse messes
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18:44:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have any suggestion about the repository? I have one slow, unreliable, home-based, svn server which I use for this kind of stuff
18:45:09 <andythenorth> can we put it on coop?
18:45:23 <andythenorth> you want git or hg?
18:45:46 <Wolf01> never used hg, and git on readonly
18:47:38 <MonkeyDrone> for private repositories, bitbucket works
18:47:43 <MonkeyDrone> unlimited private repos :D
18:48:10 <Wolf01> don't need to be private, we aren't kids
18:48:23 <MonkeyDrone> well github it is then
18:48:24 <Wolf01> and the game is open source :P
18:49:05 <MonkeyDrone> it sure is :P well i was just throwing it out there
18:49:29 <MonkeyDrone> why not use github and use your own svn server? unless you got raid on it, it's quiet risky
18:58:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: setting up a repo was actually the major thing that put me off starting a ‘proper’ patch :P
18:59:15 <andythenorth> I could try and make one on devzone, but I always do it wrong
18:59:24 <andythenorth> also I don’t really like hg
18:59:36 <Wolf01> yeah, too many things to configure and keep in sync.. at least if you want to do things in the right way
19:00:57 <andythenorth> I have an account on bitbucket
19:01:02 <andythenorth> or we could use github
19:01:10 <andythenorth> probably just use github? :P
19:01:23 <Wolf01> I automated the creation of svn repos on linux at work, but I don't have any linux here
19:01:34 <andythenorth> also I can’t svn
19:01:54 <Wolf01> github is fair, I don't know how to use it but I'll learn :P
19:02:32 <Wolf01> btw, got to go, I'll come back in 2 hours
20:00:02 <Alberth> svn is mostly checkout once, commit, and update for getting updates from the other devs, much simpler than the distributed VCSes
20:00:42 <V453000> trees will have colours too
20:01:16 <Alberth> and nice link to the train track build train too :)
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20:44:46 <Wolf01> hype for 3GB grf pack for OTTD
20:46:59 <V453000> but still, filesize pretty good so far
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20:47:41 <Wolf01> I'll wait for the rail set then :>
20:48:18 <V453000> that will take a while
20:49:12 <Wolf01> I was drowning outside, I made it to home just in time
21:01:16 <MonkeyDrone> 90% max :D woooooooooooooo, i was outsidejogging for 1.5 hours. damn clothes got heavy really wellby the end of it
21:05:59 <Wolf01> I managed to forgot to compress the logs... 14GB of plain text logs since 2013
21:06:55 <frosch123> does not sound like irc logs :p
21:07:50 <Wolf01> no, the webserver ones, but I should take care even for irc logs... I have 12 years of logs
21:10:32 <Wolf01> pfff I tried again to scroll the screenshot
21:12:21 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ repo link above
21:12:26 <andythenorth> I put openttd in it :P
21:12:47 <Wolf01> I need to understand how git works now :D
21:14:02 <MonkeyDrone> no one understand git xD
21:14:43 <MonkeyDrone> well that's what my brother says, he's been using it for years :P
21:18:05 <Wolf01> could I use both svn and git on the same working copy?
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21:22:20 <Alberth> no idea if it does anything useful :)
21:22:46 <Alberth> I tried hg with a git repo, and that failed hopelessly
21:23:00 <Alberth> but hg is then a lot more complicated than svn
21:23:47 <Wolf01> oh, yeah, I forgot I can use svn with git too
21:25:21 <Alberth> I'd check out a new working copy :p
21:25:45 <Alberth> hmm, may be somewhat large
21:27:15 <Alberth> you could copy the working copy locally, and then switch one of them
21:29:32 <Wolf01> nah, it bitches that the working copy has different uuid
21:30:42 <Wolf01> I'll checkout directly from github so it shuts up
21:40:53 <Wolf01> andy, did you forget to add some resource files? the game exits with "failed to find a sounds set"
21:43:03 <Alberth> openttd.cfg from the repo?
21:45:01 <Wolf01> maybe, but I can't find it in the working copy, so it should be using the one in the user folder
21:45:28 <Wolf01> (my ottd installation has it's own one, because it's portable)
21:47:26 <Wolf01> it has soundsset = "NoSound"
21:48:25 <Rubidium> the repository misses files
21:49:01 <Wolf01> the cat may have eat them
21:56:13 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I just cloned the openttd repo, copied everything, and pushed it
21:57:30 <Wolf01> I just checked out, changed the project configuration to include libs etc and compiled
21:59:28 <andythenorth> V453000: your iron ore mine sucks :P
22:00:00 <V453000> it's copied from your iron ore mine isn't it
22:01:09 <Wolf01> factorio time... I have a rocket to build
22:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: colour is fine, but needs some texture...
22:02:10 <V453000> I like it ultra clean
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22:03:03 <Alberth> transparent texture would work
22:03:15 <Alberth> or a completely green one
22:04:14 <Alberth> texture gets stretched over the entire area right?
22:04:40 <Alberth> so one green pixel would be enough to cover it all
22:04:56 <V453000> not exactly, the slopes are actually each different color
22:04:59 <V453000> it is slightly visible
22:05:22 <V453000> it's just pushing the contrast between hills to make it easier to orientate in
22:05:34 <V453000> it might be a bit too much
22:06:18 <V453000> but they do come from 1 colour node
22:06:30 <V453000> so if you replaced that node with a texture, it would automatically re-apply the contrast
22:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well i was not REALLY expecting you to follow my suggestion :p
22:08:58 <Alberth> hmm, too much? for me, from the hole near the NW edge of the lake all the way to the top looks like vertical walls to me
22:09:36 <Alberth> maybe it's the lack of stuff on the edges?
22:10:45 <Alberth> ,maybe not enough contrast between the sun-facing and non-sub facing sides?
22:11:17 <V453000> I think there is shitload of contrast already
22:11:40 <Alberth> at the SE side of the lake definitely
22:12:16 <andythenorth> landscape is fine
22:12:43 <Alberth> biches on the beaches!
22:14:10 <Wolf01> cluster grenades hailstorm, what a wonderful weapon, is even more effective than the ion cannon mod
22:15:07 <andythenorth> I have 2CC-ed a tram
22:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> has milek7 requested more company colours yet? :p
22:15:23 <andythenorth> and now I’ll have to do all of that type of tram in 2CC :P
22:16:43 <andythenorth> Road Hog is such a classic failed project
22:17:56 <andythenorth> I set simple goal, like ‘finish 6 trams'
22:18:02 <andythenorth> and that means redrawing about 20 trams :P
22:18:29 <andythenorth> making some better highlights lameness in the rest :P
22:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that how the world works nowadays? "kill 6 terrorists", ignoring the fact that you create 20 new terrorists that way
22:21:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's just like (software) bugs or features
22:26:05 <V453000> oh just read about machete shit in germany
22:27:41 <Wolf01> yes, it's getting worse every day...
22:28:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:28:29 <Wolf01> but not only because IS/religion/immigrants, even normal people are overreacting for little things
22:29:07 <V453000> well yeah because the politicians are doing nothing
22:29:31 <V453000> let's invite everybody to europe, we don't even need passport controls, "we can make it"
22:29:33 <Rubidium> they are doing nothing?
22:29:54 <V453000> it's so much easier to say than actually set up proper border control
22:30:06 <Rubidium> they're a major cause of the fear
22:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a passport control going to do? it's not going to say "terrorist" in there...
22:30:44 <V453000> well, what do you know, but in general letting anybody in your country/union is not a great idea
22:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but keeping them out is an even worse idea...
22:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because that's how 800 people drown in the sea, creating resentments in their 15000 relatives
22:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> out of those 15000, 20 might become terrorists
22:31:54 <V453000> well why did they travel on the sea then?
22:32:14 <V453000> if they go illegally to cross a border over sea, then?
22:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> how did something being illegal ever stop anyone?
22:32:49 <V453000> well then with that point we can discuss about anything :D
22:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you make drugs illegal, the drugs don't disappear. if you make homosexuality illegal, the homosexuals don't disappear, ...
22:33:33 <V453000> I am not saying they should disappear, I do not even say we should not accept them, but in a controlled, clear way
22:33:51 <V453000> not let 2 million people come, nobody knows how many, nobody knows where from, nobody knows anything
22:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there won't be a controlled clear way, as long as everybody gets sidetracked by an "all or nothing" discussion
22:34:39 <Alberth> not that you'd ever get agreement on a number
22:34:41 <V453000> well in France it's probably already too late and the shit will spread so beating dead horse
22:34:51 <Alberth> or you couldclose the border if you reached it
22:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the fact that it has nothing to do with the 2 million who came last year is totally disappearing. the guy in france was in the country for decades
22:35:35 <andythenorth> France is years of colonial history
22:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no amount of passport controls would have stopped him
22:35:52 <andythenorth> including brutal civil war in its mediterranean colonies
22:35:53 <V453000> you should close the border immediately, create refuge camps for them in neutral area, solve security shit, open border as decided
22:35:56 <Samu> remove the internet from europe
22:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a neutral area
22:36:21 <V453000> well then near the border you get the point
22:36:36 <ST2> nah nah, remove Samu's internet - AMD and Nvidia will tank ^^
22:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and concentrating hundreds of thousands into a few single camps is only going to make it worse
22:37:00 <V453000> do they run away from war or not
22:37:04 <V453000> peaceful camp should be ok
22:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how is a camp with a hundred thousand people who have nothing to do all day filled with people from opposing factions ever going to be "peaceful"
22:38:02 <Rubidium> so Nice... guy was in France since 2005, immigrated via normal channels. Paris of november last year... most from France and Belgium (as in born there)
22:38:28 <V453000> well if they aren't peaceful then let them fight it out wherever they want but not in our cities
22:38:29 <Rubidium> so, in my opinion the best way to prevent terrorism in Europe is to kick all the Europeans out
22:38:40 <V453000> also, I don't get how can islam not be prohibited the same way as nazis
22:39:04 <sim-al2> V, try to ban Christainity and see what happens
22:39:23 <V453000> I am not banning it in their countries, in ours at least
22:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> because islam is not a racist organization that organized a mass murder of millions of people?
22:39:42 <andythenorth> is there a new version of godwin? o_O
22:39:56 <V453000> and in the last years there hasn't been many christian warriors exploding in train stations etc afaik
22:40:02 <V453000> it's not Eddi|zuHause ?
22:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it might as well flare up again in northern ireland... it's not that long ago and tensions are still high
22:40:40 <andythenorth> all through my childhood catholics were blowing up protestants and protestants were blowing up catholics
22:40:41 <Rubidium> V453000: the Christians did it a few hundred years ago on a much more massive scale
22:40:52 <V453000> yes Rubidium, hundred years ago
22:41:14 <V453000> I'm not saying christianity has no bad things, it has shitloads
22:41:16 <Rubidium> V453000: you think people lost their "animal instincts" since then?
22:41:23 <andythenorth> there are about 2.7m muslims in UK, and about 10 have commited terrorist acts on UK soil
22:42:31 <Rubidium> andythenorth: and Northern Irelanders?
22:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> last information i have is around 5% muslims in germany
22:43:13 <V453000> France is like 10%? more?
22:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the strange thing is, anti-foreigner and anti-muslim resentments are highest in the areas that have the fewest foreigners and muslims
22:43:20 <andythenorth> Rubidium I didn’t look it up
22:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so as far as i can tell, the solution is to get more muslims
22:43:55 <andythenorth> silly debate, ends up arguing for ‘good’ and ‘bad’ terrorists :P
22:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> to a point where it's a common daily sight
22:44:17 <V453000> yeah Eddi|zuHause that totally works in France XD
22:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it totally doesn't work in france because of ghetto-ization, i.e. the individual groups stay on their own, and don't mix
22:45:18 <Wolf01> I just noticed that biters see me as an illegal alien terrorist which blows up things :(
22:45:23 <V453000> it's not like multicultural integration works any different anywhere else
22:46:10 <Rubidium> V453000: that's the point a bit, the integration in France (and Belgium) is kinda failing
22:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yeah, it's not like the european countries are fundamentally different from each other, so the problems will be very similar throughout
22:46:53 <V453000> well it's not like the muslims want to integrate, they just shut up until they have majority in an area
22:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but still, the key point is this mixing in with the population that is already there. that is the real problem that needs to be solved
22:47:48 <Rubidium> V453000: weird, the muslims I know are fairly well integrated; okay, they don't go to church on Sunday, but neither do I...
22:48:20 <V453000> of course, you probably don't go to work in a nogo zone or muslim ghetto
22:49:43 <Rubidium> true, though I live in the neighbourhood with most crime (of 2014 in the Netherlands)
22:49:43 <Wolf01> they don't go to church because they go to the mousquee
22:50:43 <Rubidium> and the mosque is well.. 400-500 meters from here
22:51:05 <V453000> nice so about 500 metres from you someone might be saying kill the infidels? :P
22:52:10 <Rubidium> unlikely, but yeah... but so could they in the church
22:52:52 <Rubidium> after all, it's all in the explanation of (roughly) the same story
22:53:27 <V453000> idk I might be racist but I don't feel like tolerating islam
22:54:13 <Rubidium> ah well, I can't stand fundamentalists of basically any religion
22:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> even non-religious fundamentalists
22:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> like fundamental capitalists. or fundamental feminists.
23:00:05 <andythenorth> Richard Stallman
23:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fundamental freesoftwareist?
23:03:31 <andythenorth> livestock wagons are grey in Iron Horse
23:03:42 <andythenorth> but livestock trucks are 2CC in Road Hog
23:03:52 * andythenorth wants consistency
23:04:12 <V453000> 1CC and use 2nd CC for cargo stuff
23:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just recolour the grey?
23:04:44 <V453000> different amount of shades likely
23:04:57 <andythenorth> but is grey better than 2CC?
23:05:05 <andythenorth> mostly I care that things are fast to find in buy menu
23:05:10 <andythenorth> so differentiation is good
23:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't mind the grey, but a bit of 2nd CC is nice as wel
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23:17:13 <andythenorth> maybe matching IH and RH is a slavish consistency
23:17:17 * andythenorth might not bother
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23:32:38 <Samu> just started original/npf/yapf terron
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