IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-19
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00:02:30 <andythenorth> supermop: I’ll stick these coaches in tomorrow :)
00:03:11 <supermop> hmm my random garden path doesn't look random enough
00:03:23 <supermop> too many of the medium size stepping stones
00:03:43 <supermop> need to weight towards the skinny ones
00:04:06 <andythenorth> I’ve done a photoshop paste of the pax coach onto a screenshot, looks good
00:04:56 <andythenorth> thinking maybe just extend them for the gen 2 coach
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01:42:44 <Samu_> I pressed Alt-0 and it crashed OpenTTD
01:42:58 <Samu_> alt-0 can't be used as hotkey?
01:43:37 <Samu_> case GHK_CRASH: // Crash the game *(volatile byte *)0 = 0;
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02:05:14 <glx> and there is an alt combo for money
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09:31:47 <andythenorth> supermop pax/mail cars in
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12:18:46 <Wolf01> ahaha "what do you want to do with ad.exe? [open] [download] [cancel]"... and they tell me to not use adblockers?
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13:51:56 <Samu> this is confusing me: if (!valid) continue;
13:52:11 <Samu> valid = true at the moment
13:52:24 <Samu> !valid would make it false, right?
13:54:00 <planetmaker> true and false are strings. Use numeric 0 and 1?
13:55:06 <Samu> bool valid = Company::IsValidAiID(i);
13:59:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: adblock is way more important than a virus scanner
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16:33:49 <Samu> my parent's HDD seems to be dying
16:35:31 <Alberth> all HDDs are dying, some are a bit more dead than others
16:35:53 <Samu> i was never lucky with Seagates
16:37:01 <Alberth> age is probably a more relevant factor :)
16:37:13 <Samu> everytime one of ours HDD dies it's a Seagate, or Samsung branded Seagate
16:37:50 <Samu> I don't think age matters much
16:38:03 <Samu> that same system has got 2 Maxtors from the IDE age
16:38:24 <Alberth> of course, they die immediately when you switch on for the first time
16:42:18 <Samu> windows is barely responsive
16:42:24 <Samu> takes time to answer requests
16:42:32 <Samu> it could be a virus, or HDD
16:42:57 <ST2> with some tables, I know Samu likes them ^^
16:43:24 <Samu> windows restore started up fixing disk issues on the next reboot
16:43:47 <Samu> now I'm unsure what to do, it tells me it may take hours
16:46:02 <Samu> it's a 500 GB Seagate barracuda, can't remember model
16:57:11 <Samu> seagate barracuda 7200.12 500 gb sata 3 16 mb cache
16:58:54 <Alberth> any particular reason we should know that?
17:03:23 <Samu> I remember i had to deal with its firmware
17:03:50 <Samu> now it dies... apparently
17:05:47 <Alkel_U3> the moral of the story: Harddisks die.
17:09:26 <Alkel_U3> well, I hear good things about some Toshiba HDDs that are actualy rebranded Hitachi. I'd go for that, probably
17:10:11 <Alberth> nah, buy a new seagate, will give you something to complain about in a few years
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17:38:33 * andythenorth in bed, with a bucket nearby
17:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope it's a bucket for drinking.
17:44:45 <andythenorth> didn’t take long :)
17:46:04 <supermop> use llama open car for antelope
17:46:28 <supermop> its alreadt 5/8, has a tan canvas tarp
17:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> when you speak of "llama", "antelope", "pony" i always think you're speaking some military codenames
17:55:04 <supermop> playing an 1870 llama game right now
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18:04:19 <supermop> hmm better to run a mineral train with two burros or one americano
18:04:32 <supermop> that reminds me, i should go get an espresso
18:17:10 <andythenorth> llama is junk :)
18:17:27 <andythenorth> the roster makes no sense
18:17:38 <andythenorth> I’ll rework it once antelope is done, maybe
18:18:01 <supermop> quarry is already making so much that i need double headed burros leaving every few days though with 5 tile rakes
18:19:04 <supermop> so far in firs 2 ive found some industries easily will run these early game trains ragged
18:20:00 <supermop> only in november of the first year and already most of trunk line is doubled, need all of it to be
18:21:20 <supermop> i have a sheep farm doing 189 sheep and 225 bales of wool at 'normal' production level
18:27:36 <Alberth> yep, firs 2 has higher production :)
18:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the problem with early starts, the production doesn't scale down along with vehicle capacity
18:32:57 <Alberth> firs 2 just has more production
18:33:26 <Alberth> even with default set in 1950
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18:36:09 <supermop> ok june 1871 and whole trunk line doubled, part tripled. enough cash now to triple most of it
18:51:06 <supermop> andythenorth: what do you think about gen 1 llama open wagon? its pretty much exactly what i was going to draw for antelope
18:51:43 <andythenorth> yeah that looks fine
18:52:04 <supermop> could paint/pallet swap/ tweak a few pixels
18:52:05 <andythenorth> supermop: you mean the SG one, or the NG one?
18:52:13 <andythenorth> one is CC, one is brown
18:52:36 <andythenorth> NG one is brown, it’s copy paste from NARS 2 I think
18:52:40 <supermop> open_car_llama_gen_1_template.png
18:53:00 <supermop> thats the one i took
18:53:17 <andythenorth> made any changes? Otherwise I paste it in now
18:54:00 <supermop> haven't changed anything, considered messing with the cc/adding a stripe or patch of 2cc
18:54:07 <supermop> but i think it looks fine as is
18:54:47 <supermop> im off to get lunch with fiance
18:55:04 <supermop> what else is left to do of the 5/8s / gen 1s?
18:55:22 <andythenorth> which can be copied from pony
18:55:24 <supermop> maybe i'll have time in afternoon to do one or two other cars
18:55:45 <supermop> any gens 2 or 3 need reworking?
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18:56:51 <supermop> anyway hightlight me while im out and ill let you know when i get back if i can get to it
19:01:34 <frosch123> V453000: when the additional coasttiles were added, there was a discussion, whether canyon flooding should be a thing
19:02:02 <frosch123> in the end canyon flooding was ruled down, but the sprites for it remained
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20:09:24 <V453000> I could really use that thing frosch123
20:10:14 <V453000> also, tbh that looks SO much more consistent
20:11:30 <V453000> just having grass in the canyon for $reason isn't very sensible
20:11:48 <supermop> should at least be wet grass
20:12:09 <frosch123> V453000: well, canyon flooding results in inconsistent gameplay bevaviour
20:12:22 <frosch123> and i prefer consistent behaviour over consistent looks :)
20:13:29 <supermop> this firs map could use more farms
20:13:33 <V453000> what is gameplay wise different?
20:13:46 <frosch123> build a road through a canyon
20:13:50 <supermop> i feel like a 19th C game should be a bit more agricultural
20:13:59 <frosch123> when does it flood, wehn is the road traversible?
20:14:20 <supermop> frosch123: draw ford sprites?
20:14:24 <frosch123> V453000: thing is, currently you can never flood something by removing something with a foundation
20:14:34 <frosch123> with canyon flooding foundations have influence on what is flooded
20:14:51 <frosch123> so, removing a piece of track with foundation may suddenly flood something
20:14:59 <V453000> and does it need to actually flood stuff?
20:15:06 <V453000> can't it just draw water there without actually flooding stuff?
20:15:38 <frosch123> a coast either ends at water or at land
20:15:47 <supermop> ocean on mountains? ocean on houses?
20:17:32 <V453000> hm I think I see the problem
20:18:14 <V453000> me is sad about that :( had a nice idea
20:20:38 <Alberth> newobject water tiles? :)
20:21:25 <V453000> I can fuck it around, but hm
20:21:55 <V453000> in other words I wanted to have different system for coasts and different system for hills
20:22:12 <V453000> these diagonal valley coasts mean I can't do that
20:22:25 <V453000> either one or the other system, but for all of them
20:23:04 <frosch123> canyon flooding would turn the purchased land into water/coast
20:23:14 <frosch123> i have no idea where you would stop drawing coast
20:23:29 <frosch123> and the roads at the top are the gameplay issue of canyon flooding
20:23:44 <V453000> honestly, I don't find it to be a gameplay issue
20:23:54 <V453000> I see your point, it is totally valid
20:24:09 <V453000> just that I think it doesn't need to be 100% idiot proof :)
20:24:27 <V453000> I'd say it shouldn't flood purchased land maybe
20:24:59 <frosch123> well, i think the flooding behaviour is fine
20:25:09 <Alberth> obviously it should wait until you placed an expensive airport on it
20:25:15 <frosch123> but we need some graphics for the weird corners without coast
20:25:36 <frosch123> but back then noone had a concept how to draw graphics for those corners
20:25:46 <frosch123> which are technically at height zero, but also aren't
20:25:49 <V453000> which corners do you mean?
20:26:03 <frosch123> those where the coastline is interrupted
20:26:13 <frosch123> and where canyon flooding would continue flooding
20:26:27 <V453000> isn't that just a normal coast tile?
20:27:04 <frosch123> i mean graphics for slopes which have shore only in one corner, not along the whole slope
20:27:41 <V453000> isn't that one of the things the replacenew allowS?
20:27:58 <supermop> i feel like this a reason for ocean to have depth
20:28:41 <supermop> and then say, any tile that is partially below 0 has ocean, and at flat tile at 0 is just a beach
20:29:25 <frosch123> from right to left: 1. shore is complete, 2. two tiles miss shore sprites, 3. one tile is missing shore sprite
20:30:37 <frosch123> the canyons need shore sprites at the beginning where they reach the water
20:30:46 <supermop> frosch123: why not always draw the beachy part on the slope, and if a piece of land is flat at 0 but not floodable, draw it as all sand?
20:30:46 <frosch123> they do not need shore sprites along them
20:31:06 <frosch123> supermop: that's what i mean, but there are no sprites for it
20:31:29 <supermop> someone could draw, myself included
20:32:17 <frosch123> it depends on the graphics, in 2007 that sand part was even higher than those in opengfx
20:32:30 <frosch123> you would need to draw some hill near the water
20:33:31 <V453000> I would be very interested in drawing those if it could mean we could have this feature
20:33:49 <V453000> separating shore graphics from hills completely that way
20:34:10 <V453000> as long as it works like this, you can't really be creative which hurts mainly with 32bpp/EZ
20:34:25 <V453000> if you can separate them, you can fuck with the border and things get interesting
20:34:48 <frosch123> the yellow arc should be sand
20:35:21 <V453000> oh, I thought that is where the valleys/canyons of water should go
20:35:28 <V453000> why end the water there with the yellow arc?
20:35:42 <frosch123> .... because it breaks gameplay.... ?
20:35:51 <frosch123> i already said that 3 times
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20:36:43 <V453000> if you can see the water next to the object you are removing, it is quite clear that it will flood through
20:36:52 <V453000> after all, those nice canyons are just better rivers :P
20:37:06 <V453000> the coast could get really nice with this
20:37:25 <frosch123> did you look at the old screenshots?
20:37:29 <frosch123> canyon flooding mostly looks weird
20:37:36 <frosch123> also, where is andy
20:37:48 <frosch123> we need his opinion on traveling with ships on those "rivers" :p
20:39:09 <V453000> honestly when I look through the old screenshots, the valleys look very nice to me
20:39:27 <V453000> it makes sense, level 0 -> water spreads
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20:43:49 <V453000> ok that is considerably shitty :)
20:44:29 <V453000> I'll just do some silly shit :P
20:46:17 <frosch123> maybe put some yetis in the corners, which block the water flooding
20:46:46 <supermop> in 2007 arctic had a rocky beach?
20:47:05 <frosch123> supermop: it's the "new water" newgrf
20:47:36 <frosch123> it was the only grf back then that had this type of coast
20:49:41 <supermop> i don't think i have ever used a water or shore grf
20:50:19 <V453000> for arctic it is very nice, I used it a lot
20:51:13 <supermop> in the time between when i used to visit forums around 2004 and when a came back to lurk around 2008
20:52:28 <V453000> you didn't make me very happy frosch123 =[
20:52:58 <V453000> sooo... vehicles consisting of multiple sprites? :P
20:53:05 <supermop> around 2004 i found the forums while trying to figure out how to get tto to work on my circa 2003 computer
21:02:23 <Wolf01> I leave you for 30 minutes and you start a discussion which now I must read :P
21:05:18 <supermop> V453000: what exactly are you looking to accomplish?
21:06:05 <V453000> well with the shores I want nice graphical shores which don't have to start AND end at the corners
21:06:21 <V453000> which is not doable with the valley tiles being taken from normal terrain
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21:06:35 <V453000> cause if you make the shore different, it breaks in those corners
21:07:06 <V453000> with the multiple sprites per vehicle, I would like to massively reduce filesize of 32bpp/EZ grfs by composing it from layers (wagon, cargo, ...)
21:11:24 <supermop> perfect for brio trains
21:14:01 <V453000> perfect for anything, really
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22:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "this warranty is valid for 5 years after purchase" ... "purchase date: december 1975" ... very helpful :p
22:28:52 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Well, eight times the warrantied life ain't bad
22:29:13 <FLHerne> Assuming it still worked until fairly recently, or you'd have thrown it out?
22:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i've sorted through a pile of instruction manuals. some of the documents are for devices that were already thrown out
22:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> this particular sheet was about a sowing machine, which still exists, but i don't think i have ever used in my life :p
22:40:17 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: even a DDR sewing machine made in the 70s probably still works well
22:40:40 <supermop> i find only sewing machines made before 1900 or after 2000 are likely to be broken
22:41:27 <supermop> and some of those 1900s singers still work pretty well too - if you don't mind the leg workout
22:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> DDR: serves you right for naming yourself after a non-existing country :p
22:45:04 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe he thought it was like license plates - if the country doesn't renew the name, it goes back into the pool for the next entity to take
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23:03:03 <supermop> so in 1870 i get a bulk terminal, but no aluminum plants yet to take the bauxite
23:03:21 <supermop> (i can still make use of the chemicals)
23:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> bauxite in 1870 sounds wrong
23:04:53 <supermop> but this to me suggests a humorous situation where people have not yet discouvered that you can extract aluminum from bauxite, but that some merchant at this port has decided to import hundreds of tons per month of it anyway
23:05:36 <supermop> maybe he is trying to sell it as a decorative landscaping material
23:13:17 <supermop> why are outdoor light sconces so expensive
23:13:48 <supermop> the really cool designer ones and european ones are like 2-300$, which i can understand
23:14:02 <supermop> but then the cheap generic ones are like 1-200
23:14:17 <supermop> apart from a couple really ugly ones around $50
23:14:34 <supermop> even some of the ugly generic ones are $200
23:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you're talking about
23:15:05 <supermop> lights to go on a wall outdoors
23:15:19 <supermop> in a back yard, or side of a house etc
23:16:08 <supermop> the budget for this project is $25,000 and i can tell right now that the deck my boss wants to use is going to be $80,000 alone
23:19:35 <supermop> i bet i could design a nice looking shroud to cover an ugly light for less than $20 a piece
23:21:41 <supermop> just drill 4 holes in a sheet of steel, fold it twice, and powdercoat it
23:31:22 <supermop> is it odd that this train makes the segment from last waypoint into platform 2 days slower than from platform back to that waypoint on the return?
23:31:41 <supermop> i guess it brakes slower than it accellerates
23:32:17 <supermop> not sure how to timetable this
23:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> braking into station is kinda hardcoded speed reduction, whereas accelerating depends properly on power/weight
23:33:51 <supermop> i thought the game based braking performance on HP
23:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat, but station entrance has some special code to slowly brake, instead of going fast to the last tile and then emergency brake
23:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> like it does for signals
23:35:30 <supermop> now i wonder if i can save a day or so on the timetable by stopping at near end instead of middle
23:37:53 <FLHerne> supermop: Is it just that, or that sometimes it has to wait for a platform?
23:38:12 <supermop> nope, brand new segment of line and service
23:38:39 <supermop> this is the only train on it so far - doing test runs to get the timetabling down
23:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: stopping at end of platform may help if you want to clear the station entrance for other trains quickly
23:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: basically the code says "if you're less than X tiles away from stopping point, max speed should be Y"
23:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch the train, you see the speed go down after each tile border, then flatten out somewhere during the tile
23:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (if it does not flatten, you do not have enough braking power)
23:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why, oh why, youtube, do you suggest to me some random shooter game video with greek language commentary?
23:52:08 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Might be IP-based?
23:52:17 <FLHerne> Unless you have a static one
23:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really static, but i have no forced disconnection anymore
23:53:16 <glx> and even with dynamic IP it's bound to a country
23:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so i should have had the same for quite a while
23:58:17 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's the sort of case where Google might get it wrong
23:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't even a video with millions of views
23:59:39 <FLHerne> If your (or the Greek guy's) IP is usually unchanged for a while, they'd get the heuristic from that
continue to next day ⏵
