IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-15
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01:51:07 <Samu> if (!AIConfig::GetConfig(c, AIConfig::SSS_FORCE_GAME)->HasScript()) AIConfig::GetConfig(c, AIConfig::SSS_FORCE_GAME)->Change(NULL, -1, false, true);
01:51:31 <Samu> added this line to openttd.cpp, below line 368
01:53:36 <Samu> if it doesn't find a script, treat that script as being random ai (instead of none), and add some NULL's, especially at config_list, which is what Change is doing
01:54:26 <Samu> must test save game, and load game now, see if it didn't break anything
01:54:53 <Samu> well, not now, don't have time
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10:45:51 <Leanden> Wonder if someone can help me
10:46:19 <Leanden> I have coded my HST trains but found that some pixels are animated
10:46:38 <Leanden> i repalletized to the noaction pallet and palletized back to ttd dos
10:46:45 <Leanden> but the animated pixels are still animated -.-
10:47:03 <Leanden> what is the best way to replace these without painstakingly redrawing every pixel?
10:47:20 <Leanden> or is there a way to disable animation on newgrf trains?
10:55:36 <planetmaker> you cannot disable palette animation; you simply need to use the correct colours
10:56:03 <planetmaker> (except you can disable it for the whole game. But that's a client-side action, nothing you as NewGRF author will be able to aks players to do in any way
10:56:24 <planetmaker> With a proper graphics programme you colour select the wrong colour and replace it globally by the right one
10:58:54 <V453000> I believe you should be able to download no-anim palette from the devzone for your pixel editor
10:58:58 <V453000> and re-save images with that
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11:01:04 <Leanden> but when i try to run nmlc it says its an incomplete pallet (only 208 colours)
11:01:13 <V453000> which one are you using?
11:01:29 <Leanden> image editor or pallet?
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11:02:02 <Leanden> GIMP and my default is openttd-dos
11:02:24 <Leanden> but the im using ttd-noaction to remove the animation pixels
11:03:44 <V453000> I don't use gimp so I can't check if the pallete there works fine
11:03:55 <V453000> cause when I tried with photoshop, there was some weird stuff happening too
11:03:56 <Leanden> It hasnt been an issue until now
11:03:59 <V453000> like, it still animated
11:04:16 <Leanden> so what graphics program do you use then?
11:05:51 <Leanden> but you said you get glitches?
11:06:16 <V453000> I might have done something wrong, or the PS palette on devzone is borked
11:06:25 <Leanden> Odd thing is i even took a pixel drop of a non-animated pixel and then pasted over the animated ones
11:06:26 <V453000> generally I use the one with action colours
11:06:34 <Leanden> but once i ran the pallet it was animated again!!!
11:07:05 <Leanden> i think the noaction palette is Win
11:07:12 <Leanden> but the rest of my palette is DOS
11:07:22 <Leanden> are the reds in the win pallet action colours in the DOS?
11:07:23 <V453000> I think you should always use DOS but I am not sure at all
11:07:35 <Leanden> well there isnt a DOS noaction pallet ;)
11:08:38 <Leanden> ah there is one for photoshop
11:11:07 <Leanden> ahhh i think i solved it!
11:15:38 <Leanden> im literally lost as to why these animated pixels wont go away
11:16:16 <Leanden> and its just that one red colour!!
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11:23:51 <Alberth> it's not the colour that's used, it's the palette index
11:31:16 <Alberth> so you need to replace it with a pixel with a different palette index
11:32:07 <Alberth> (unless nml is more smart than I think it is)
11:34:01 <Leanden> any quick way to do that in GIMP? :P
11:36:48 <andythenorth> Leanden definitely use the DOS palette everywhere
11:37:20 <andythenorth> there are various palettes floating around for download
11:37:26 <andythenorth> ttd-dos.act is the filename of the one I use
11:37:41 <TrueBrain> As a general FYI: I moved stuff around in openttd.org, and email are now sent from another VM. Please let me know if you no longer receive an email you used to be able, etc
11:38:19 <andythenorth> in photoshop this palette is applied to the document, in indexed colour mode *or* applied on export to an RGB document
11:38:53 <andythenorth> but to remove the red pixel, you need to find replace with a different red
11:39:19 <andythenorth> there are a number of very similar reds, some animated, some not… this is a common problem in sprites people send to me
11:40:35 <TrueBrain> whoho, openttd.org gets an A+ from SSLLabs again :D
11:40:55 <andythenorth> are we PCI Compliant? :P
11:43:04 <TrueBrain> about 50% of the requests is HTTP/2 :)
11:43:23 <TrueBrain> about 10% of the requests is HTTP/1.0 ....
11:45:41 <Alberth> /me wonders about the remaining 40%
11:46:06 <TrueBrain> 10% of our requests are via IPv6
11:46:09 <TrueBrain> it is slowly growing :)
11:46:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, I do not store how many request are via SSL
11:46:53 <TrueBrain> that would be a nice thing to know
11:47:21 * andythenorth thought newgrf trains had a curve speed penalty option
11:47:33 <TrueBrain> be careful with that
11:48:14 <andythenorth> hmm, it’s in the railtype
11:48:21 <andythenorth> makes sense I guess :P
11:48:39 <Alberth> for some value of guess, sure :p
11:49:15 <andythenorth> I think newgrf spec is telling me that this train roster does not have good gameplay
11:49:32 <andythenorth> looking for arcane bits of spec is usually a sign of that
11:49:47 <andythenorth> “we have the technology, we can rebuild him"
11:50:02 <TrueBrain> whoho, logging SSL and cipher used :D
11:50:26 <Alberth> /me just changed the ssh key to rsa
11:50:46 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: supermop was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 19 hours, 30 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <supermop> but i do have a shogi-ban, because my first goban came with one on the back, and a set of plastic shogi pieces
11:50:48 <TrueBrain> bingbot connects via https :)
11:51:15 <Alberth> although some sites may not be connectable otherwise
11:51:35 <TrueBrain> eyeballing this, it seems 50/50 (http vs https)
11:51:48 <TrueBrain> eyeballing this, 99% is TLSv1.2 :)
11:52:41 <andythenorth> I envy the days when I didn’t know what TrueBrain was talking about
11:52:52 <andythenorth> life was simpler then
11:53:07 <TrueBrain> mainly I have been wondering what happens if I enforce SSL :P
11:54:37 <andythenorth> you bounce some clients that can only use flawed versions of TLS?
11:54:56 <Alberth> /me understands some of the words
11:55:17 <andythenorth> or even clients that predate TLS?
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11:55:30 <andythenorth> pre-date not predate :P
11:56:06 <TrueBrain> yeah ... our own client connect via http :D
11:56:48 <andythenorth> that means someone could MITM my savegame :P
11:57:51 <TrueBrain> its a bit silly .. we have HSTS enabled, which means that once you visited the website via https, your browser will do its best to always reuse https for the domain
11:57:58 <TrueBrain> but when you just arrive at the site via http
11:58:01 <TrueBrain> you might never see this
11:58:16 <TrueBrain> there is a 'preload' list, but that has as requirement that you always redirect http users to https
11:58:29 <TrueBrain> but that is not really what I want .. I just want people to be directed to https if they are capable
12:01:41 <Alberth> ha, almost, but not really :)
12:01:59 <TrueBrain> on the plus-side, google reports all our links as https :)
12:06:54 <Samu> it's not a direct fix per se
12:07:59 <Samu> line 21 breaks it again to "fix" it
12:08:13 <Samu> 2 wrongs make a right in this case, not the optimal way to fix it, but it works
12:11:18 <Alberth> yeah, it looks quite weird at least
12:15:37 <Samu> i wish i could do better
12:45:22 <Samu> there is no way to select none for AIs, right?
12:47:00 <Samu> my fix will work, for as long as it continues to be no way to select a "none" AI
12:47:25 <Alberth> reduce number of competitors to 0
12:48:30 <Samu> you're not really selecting a "none" AI that way
12:49:54 <Samu> brb, deleting all scripts
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12:53:47 <TrueBrain> so many threads these days asking for help/info/features for Android/iOS ports
12:54:04 <TrueBrain> are they really that popular? Always assumed it would be unbearable to play (because the lack of a mouse)
12:58:35 <Alberth> maybe the port added a lot of usability features
12:59:41 <Alberth> at least I know he modified to main toolbar as it didn't fit on the screen
13:01:44 <Wolf01> having OTTD on windows mobile working with continuum would be a nice feature
13:03:20 <Leanden> andythenorth: is there a way i can get GIMP just to replace that particular red, or if you know a quick way could i send you the sprites to change it for me ;D
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13:13:46 <V453000> hm, I am thinking about completely changing BRIX visual style XD
13:14:57 <Alberth> everything upside down? :)
13:15:13 <V453000> thing is, the texture-less thing is nice and clean
13:15:18 <V453000> but eyes hurt from it
13:15:44 <V453000> & integrating things to make them look nice is almost impossible because there is no comfy noise to get lost in
13:16:11 <Alberth> adding noise seems the answer :)
13:16:20 <V453000> well just random noise won't work
13:16:29 <V453000> means it needs some texture and some detail
13:16:36 <V453000> which kind of completely changes the concept
13:19:02 <V453000> also, I think I have kind of a strong colour concept
13:19:07 <V453000> but not general style
13:19:24 <V453000> as in, I made a rule for myself that important stuff has colour, non gameplay important stuff is desaturated
13:19:32 <V453000> but it doesn't actually answer the style of things
13:20:07 <V453000> right now my brain is in space scifi mode
13:21:00 <V453000> will consider how much can I do without actually reworking the 3D models
13:55:23 <argoneus> good morning train friends
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15:23:54 <m4110c> Just started playing Ottd a few days ago
15:24:06 <m4110c> "just connect one more city"
15:24:26 <m4110c> "uh, I quickly need to improve services for Wrintbourne"
15:24:46 <m4110c> but … how do I enable autorenew of vehicles?
15:25:00 <m4110c> Wiki says, there’s a preference
15:25:13 <m4110c> but for me, the list of prefs in that window is a _lot_ shorter …
15:25:24 <frosch123> there is a filter at the top
15:25:40 <m4110c> "show all prefs, even the weird ones"
15:28:18 <frosch123> it's under "company"
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15:28:42 <frosch123> "firma" in your case
15:29:13 <frosch123> if you looked under "vehicles", you probably found some information for ottd <= 1.1
15:29:35 <m4110c> the wiki page’s text is correct
15:29:42 <m4110c> but the screenshot is old/wrong/misleading:
15:31:15 <m4110c> the referencing page says: 1.3.1
15:31:49 <frosch123> ok, maybe the gui was shuffled in 1.4 then :)
15:32:08 <m4110c> I would’ve searched that forever …
15:32:28 <m4110c> can I prevent that cities build streets automatically over railway tracks?
15:32:49 <frosch123> use the "suchtext" entry at the top, if in doubt :)
15:33:18 <Samu> it's an all or nothing :(
15:33:36 <Samu> that's something I've had in mind about that
15:33:53 <Samu> avoid towns building road on rails
15:33:59 <Samu> but still allow towns building roads
15:38:11 <Samu> what do u think about autoclean for AIs?
15:38:29 <Samu> an AI died... autoclean it
15:39:01 <Samu> i guess i better leave it for now
15:58:32 <Samu> just found out dead scripts don't save data, it saves empty
15:59:01 <Samu> which is good news for what I'm doing
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16:18:01 <Samu> weird, the GS is active in the scenario editor or am I seeing things?
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16:32:02 <Samu> is it intended that a GS is active in the scenario editor?
16:32:24 <Samu> i better make sure of this
16:41:05 <Samu> if I configure a GS in main menu then enter Scenario Editor, the GS does not start
16:41:20 <Samu> if I save the scenario, then load it back, the GS becomes active
16:41:43 <Samu> I am 95% sure this is a bug
16:42:55 <Samu> tested with a broken BusyBee to make it crash, just to make sure
16:43:12 <Samu> it crashed while in scenario editor which means it was active
17:24:20 <Samu> how would you deal with a bug like this?
17:26:08 <Alberth> no idea what to do, but I can imagine that something like that would be fogotten, scenario editor is always very much tested :p
17:26:11 <Alberth> thanks for the report
17:27:29 <Alberth> first guess is trying to suppress the GS in the same way as the first time
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17:53:55 <Samu> when saving the scenario for the first time, the script doesn't have any save data
17:54:09 <Samu> loading it, starts the script
17:54:40 <Samu> saving the scenario afterwards will save the script data into the file...
17:55:15 <Samu> loading it again, we have the script also loading this saved data, assuming it didn't crash
17:56:07 <Samu> how would you maintain save or load compatibility after fixing this bug? :(
18:00:03 <Samu> what to do with the unwanted save data of the bugged saved scenarios?
18:20:02 <planetmaker> samu: simply ignore bugged or unwanted data on load
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19:21:11 <Samu> there's a different issue
19:21:55 <Samu> if i load a save game, not a scenario, in the scenario editor, the save contains data for the ais and scripts
19:22:49 <Samu> if the gs doesn't start now, saving the scenario afterwards... rips away any saved data of ais :(
19:23:39 <glx> of course, a scenario doesn't have AI
19:24:04 <Samu> must check if that actually happens
19:35:37 <_dp_> hi, how do I switch from big font back to normal in gs strings?
19:36:01 <_dp_> there is {BIG_FONT} and {TINY_FONT} control codes but no NORMAL_FONT or so
19:41:14 <Samu> i'm not sure what's actually happening with AIs in scenario editor
19:42:25 <Samu> their companies are there, but their scripts, not sure
19:47:22 <glx> _dp_: same for standard strings
19:53:02 <_dp_> glx, I know it's same, but is there a way to do it?
19:54:56 <glx> but each string start as NORMAL_FONT
20:14:52 <_dp_> bugs in tracker seem to have votes counter, but how do I vote for bugs?
20:16:06 <_dp_> there are even votes for some tasks
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20:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think voting is a useful feature
20:18:08 <_dp_> also it look broken right now, not disabled
20:18:31 <Alberth> random guess, it came enabled out of the box :)
20:19:32 <Alberth> but sure, people post feature requests in the tracker, why not vote?
20:20:34 <_dp_> I often see +1 spam in trackers that don't have voting
20:21:30 <planetmaker> hm, true. But it makes more sense to actually have it, when it is being used to create a priority list when you have limited ressources
20:22:22 <Alberth> I don't think solving technical problems and democratic votes work well together
20:23:17 <andythenorth> votes are fine when there’s a decision to be made
20:23:22 <andythenorth> there’s no decision here :)
20:23:47 <_dp_> it gives devs good idea of what people want more, ofc it shouldn't mean that most upvoted stuff get implemented no matter what
20:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but for that there needs to be a consistent level of dev-work to be done regularly
20:24:31 <andythenorth> devs have almost zero interest in what people want more of :)
20:24:58 <andythenorth> I’m not speaking for every contribute mind
20:25:42 <andythenorth> but I think in broad terms, there is tiny or no interest in fixing bugs now
20:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure voting shines in professional environments, but for a hobby-environment?
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20:26:45 <andythenorth> or any environment without active development?
20:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in a hobby environment, even during more active times, devs value their own interest way more than other people's interest.
20:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's questioning the value of the voting data. you end up with most bugs getting 1 vote from the reporter, or maybe not. and almost never more than 1
20:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which means there's a lot of random noise
20:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and not much actual content to read out
20:30:15 <Rubidium> if you would handle bugs with higher vote count first, then OpenTTD would quickly become an unplayable heap of "features"
20:31:47 * andythenorth wonders when the last bug was closed
20:31:52 * andythenorth looks for self :P
20:32:11 <andythenorth> oh 3 days ago :)
20:32:28 <andythenorth> so actually we do have quite active development
20:32:36 <Samu> think my last bug report is questionable
20:33:15 <andythenorth> 12 fixes in 2016 so far
20:34:12 <Samu> maybe it's fine for the script to be active, however it's dormant, idling or so
20:35:34 <Samu> I can't figure out if the GS is actually doing anything
20:37:15 <Samu> seems that the script save data must be passed from save to save, even when saving from scenario editor
20:41:24 * andythenorth does play OpenTTD
20:45:35 <Samu> looks like it's not a bug after all
20:47:10 <Samu> both ais and gss are loadable in the scenario editor, but.. i guess it's for a reason it does that
20:47:47 <Samu> i just can't figure if they're actively doing anything. their instance is initiated though
20:47:53 <Alberth> you want a ai/gs to be part of the scenario, and after all, it's just a savegame
20:48:29 <Alberth> yeah, that's the puzzle, should an ai/gs be active in the editor; My first guess is no
20:49:45 <Samu> the only reason i can find to maintain the instance initiated is to keep saving their data
20:52:20 <Samu> accessing AI/Game Script settings from the scenario editor under this cirmumstances becomes complicated...
20:53:04 <Samu> they are there, with their instances being kept alive, but apparently dormant, how will i reflect the correct information in that window?
21:02:03 <Samu> okay, seems like the issue is only related to GS's
21:03:10 <Samu> more specifically, during the saving of a scenario when the GS script is chosen but not even started
21:06:12 <Samu> when saving, if it was currently active or not
21:06:32 <Samu> it is assumed that GS's are always actively running when doing a save
21:06:42 <Samu> guess that's the piece of information that is lacking
21:44:58 <andythenorth> so the patch for windowshade on rail station selection, was the conclusion that station UI needs redesigned from scratch? o_O
21:48:33 <Alberth> I'd first try shuffling the components of the window a bit
21:49:06 <Alberth> not sure what else yo can do, most stuff in there is required
21:52:26 <andythenorth> well, the trivial thing is to just patch locally ;)
21:52:37 <andythenorth> and not play MP games requiring unpatched ottd
21:56:37 <Alberth> install a second copy for MP :)
21:59:49 <andythenorth> I have several :D
22:30:50 <Samu> if (Game::GetInstance() != NULL) Game::Save();
22:31:17 <Samu> this shall do it, let's see
22:43:15 <Samu> nope, breaks loading of old saves
23:04:31 <Samu> okay, so it has to save the GS data
23:05:28 <Samu> when loading it back, it must not start it up, and yet must load the saved data
23:06:05 <Samu> the bug is not in the saving, but in the loading
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23:38:41 <Samu> I don't know what to do, really peculiar situation
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23:40:43 <Samu> 1 - if I lauch scenario editor, configure a GS, then save it, then when loading the scenario back, I don't want it to start the GS instance
23:42:04 <Samu> if do that, then in the case that I load a save game with a GS, in the scenario editor, the instance isn't started
23:43:04 <Samu> if it's not started, saving it now, won't save its data, the next load won't have this data anymore :(
23:44:37 <Samu> it must always save this data, it can't be lost, the only means to have it save and load is to start the GS instance in the scenario editor
23:45:06 <Samu> can't have one without the other... it's a loop
23:45:32 <Samu> what to do what to do :(
23:49:21 <Samu> the save complements the load, and the load complements the save. If the instance isn't initiated in one of the cases, the loop breaks :\
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