IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-05-11
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00:10:50 <Samu> hmm, there's some serious bug related to random ais
00:10:57 <Samu> can't get my head around this
00:11:54 <Samu> they don't have a configuration in a game
00:13:52 <Samu> in main menu, slot 1 is configured with random ai, parameters are set to have a start delay of 1 day.
00:14:54 <Samu> i start a game, i start in slot 1. I move to spectator and kill slot 1.
00:15:21 <Samu> now i'm waiting for the next ai to start, which should be in slot 1, and should also be 1 day
00:15:30 <Samu> well, it didn't start yet
00:16:23 <Samu> it finally started, i don't know how long I had to wait, but definitely it wasn't 1 day
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05:44:35 <Flygon> To capture the entirety of Japan at the same resoluton as that Hokkaido map
05:44:42 <Flygon> You'd need a 16k*16k scenario map
05:44:51 * Flygon laughing a little hard here...
05:45:12 <Flygon> That'd need a hell of a daylength patch, and something to remove vehicle limits :'D
05:46:21 <ST2> "hack" wagons capacities... hack it all xD
05:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and probably more RAM...
05:46:48 <ST2> and a new CPU cooler too :)
05:48:16 <Flygon> Eddi: I might have the RAM. I don't think we'll ever get the single threaded CPU capacity :DDD
05:48:26 <Flygon> ST2: Nah, not capacities
05:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the map alone is over 2GB, and then you haven't had a single cargopacket yet
05:48:52 <ST2> Sylf making a "big chest" :D
05:48:59 <Flygon> Just somehow increase the vehicle table size from 65k (16-bit) to 32-bit (like, 16.7m)... somehow :D
05:49:16 <Flygon> Sylf: For the same scale as the Hokkaido map, yeah
05:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the vehicle table is 1M for like 5 years now
05:49:49 <Sylf> I'm thinking a bit longer and narrower
05:49:55 <Flygon> So you can have more than 65k RVs in a single game?
05:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the per-company-limit is still 5000
05:50:15 <Flygon> Sylf: If you got the spare dimensions, may's well include China and Korea :D
05:50:27 <Flygon> Eddi: Ahh, so it just never got increased?...
05:50:39 <Flygon> As in, the capacity is there?... sorry, I'm a bit lost O_o
05:50:45 <Flygon> This is rather a surprise for me
05:51:23 <ST2> in our last tournament we made limit to 5K RV's per company... some companies reached 3K - server started struggling
05:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: the 5000 limit was never meant to be increased, just that multiplayer with long trains kept hitting the 65k limit, and thus it was increased
05:52:00 <Flygon> Ooooooooh, a wagon counts as a vehicle?
05:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, each wagon individually
05:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> plane=2, helicopter=3
05:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> plus ufos, smoke puffs, whatever
05:52:38 <Flygon> ST2: Hahaha, yeah, I don't think even a 4k*4k map alone will ever work as a multiplayer map unless everyone's on a gigabit LAN :DDD
05:52:46 <Flygon> Eddi: Shit, I didn't think of that
05:52:55 <Flygon> OpenTTD shares more with Ragnarok Online than it thinks :DDDD
05:53:30 <Sylf> I still think 4k maps are meaningless but... meh.
05:53:38 <Flygon> (the randomest of shit is a "Monster"... someone shoots an arrow? The server generates a monster for, like, 0.1 seconds so the arrow sprite can show and update it's position on the screen)
05:53:50 <Flygon> (I mean, sure, it works, but it feels so... unclean)
05:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: that just means the "monster" class is mis-named
05:55:25 <Flygon> Which's a bit of a lolwut in itself @_@
05:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "mob" sounds like it should be multiple objects...
05:55:59 <Sylf> Killed couple yeti bugs. good enough for the night.
05:56:02 <Flygon> I forgot if it was because Korean devs, or if it was some 80s/90s tabletop term
05:56:32 <Flygon> And you've come up with the best explanation I've heard to date
05:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in german, a "mob" is usually a bunch of people ganging up, pitchforks and all...
05:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> usage in the english language might differ.
05:58:49 <Flygon> The same applies to English xD
05:59:01 <Flygon> Hence why the term was so confusing to me :D
05:59:21 <Flygon> Combined with the fact that a lot of the game's internal terms has some confusing Korean>English Engrish...
05:59:40 <Flygon> Misc. Nordic>Korean>Japanese>English
06:01:08 <sim-al2> That ensures context is lost completely :D
06:01:10 <Flygon> Though, thankfully, it's usually just some derp transliterations
06:01:37 <Flygon> ie. the town of Payon used to be translated as Fayon, thanks to Korean not having a fully distinctive F/P sound
06:01:51 <Flygon> (Payon sounds cooler, anyway...)
06:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that place
06:03:29 <Flygon> Ingame town, not IRL :PP
06:03:46 <Flygon> But, yeah... the problem is, with assigning so many things to mobs
06:03:52 <Flygon> And thanks to client-server sync being 2001 era...
06:04:19 <Flygon> Cue random objects 'sticking' to tiles on the screen, because the server telling the client the object was suppose to disappear never quite got through
06:05:28 <Flygon> It's bad enough that almost every private server has some sort of a @refresh command to force the client to clear all current object info, then retrieve fresh info from the server... and basically do a soft-reboot of the current client state
06:07:26 <Flygon> (the obvious solution is rewriting client/server sync... but the only half that's feature complete in open source is the server end)
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12:37:40 <peter1138> must, not, read, /r/openttd
12:39:00 <Wolf01> I try to avoid /r/ when I can
12:46:02 <Wolf01> like almost the rest of the web
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13:24:34 <Joseph222> Meme meme,emerge,emerge,emerge,eye,e,me,ememeukifkiqhvdkjhvackjcvvhvukjavccebcdekiwfbvkishbdvkuhbsdfvuhbefviuhb
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14:22:30 <argoneus> to a house full of smoke
14:22:34 <argoneus> off to a great start
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14:33:37 <Flygon> I wonder if OpenTTD with Research Trees should become a thing... :B
14:33:46 <Flygon> argoneus: Oh, shit. Sorry. >_<
14:34:48 <argoneus> it's mostly fine now
14:34:59 <argoneus> except I can't breathe
14:36:08 <planetmaker> you should see a doctor then instead of IRC-ing
14:38:03 <argoneus> it's getting better, so no need
14:38:10 <argoneus> I'm sitting in front of a wide open window
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15:04:03 <Wolf01> at least your house is not burned down
15:08:06 <peter1138> gah, modsecurity is pissing me off
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15:51:17 <argoneus> yeah I feel fine now again
15:51:28 <argoneus> for whomever it may concern
15:55:08 <supermop> went right from too cold
15:59:48 <supermop> was rainy for weeks here, then warm on monday, cold again yesterday, now very warm again today
15:59:59 <supermop> on a day i walked to work wearing a suit
16:00:19 <supermop> really need a summer suit, burning up in this wool /poly blend
16:00:57 <peter1138> sorry i lost you at "suit"
16:06:46 <supermop> i don't wear suits to work enough to justify owning a "summer" suit
16:07:20 <peter1138> i bought my first suit last year. i'm 38.
16:07:21 <supermop> but could really use one today, and presumably at my wedding where it will be a lot hotter and i'll be expected to dance around and shit
16:08:02 <peter1138> worn it 3 times... funerals...
16:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a lot.
16:11:54 <supermop> peter1138: fortunately (?) my spate of funerals was enough in the past that i no longer fit the suits I wore to them. only one this year, and my more winter suit was fit for purpose
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16:50:10 <supermop> hmm anyone else find it odd that you can select company color of a wagon based on type of locomotive hauling it, rather than color of a locomotive based on type of wagons it hauls?
16:50:41 <V453000> works better with mixed trains
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17:02:39 <supermop> V453000: was thinking that on walk to work, but still feels lit a bit of customization i'd miss
17:11:38 <Wolf01> supermop, in Italy we have/had passengers liveries and cargo liveries for the same engines, did you mean that?
17:12:26 <supermop> like, what if i want to select pink for passenger and grey for freight
17:16:28 <V453000> I do agree that having cargo subrefits for various colors of trains is an excellent feature
17:18:15 <supermop> you'd need some idea of a hierarchy though, and make a decision that say, one passenger car in a train of coal hoppers classifies the whole train as passenger, or instead that one boxcar at the end of a passenger train makes it a freight train
17:19:46 <supermop> or you could say that there is a default color for locomotives on mixed trains
17:20:58 <V453000> well yeah such a thing is also an option
17:21:27 <V453000> if you have it controlled by code recolour, you could go really wild with it
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18:21:42 <supermop> V453000: yeah, but want something simple and customizable rather than realistic
18:22:54 <supermop> i think ukrs may make some steam trains black if hauling freight, and might make BR era locomotives match their real passenger, mail, or freight liveries automatically
18:23:57 <supermop> but i am thinking like a feature for ogfx+ trains, where any casual user can choose pink for mail or orange for freight or grey for passenger
18:24:25 <supermop> do ogfx+ trains use 2cc?
18:25:14 <Alberth> it's not that relevant, as all trains are mine
18:25:58 <supermop> ah - i still like to have 2cc to get some nice contrast
18:26:19 <supermop> favorite of mine is "light blue" & "orange"
18:27:07 <supermop> previously used a lot of green and yellow, also looks goot
18:27:45 <supermop> currently using grey with pink in antelope, which is surprisingly good looking on these steam locomotives
18:29:11 <supermop> in the 90s in tto i always used green, and the yellow/orange fronts on the trains looked good, which inspired me to keep using yellow or orange as 2cc
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18:58:16 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause wasn't already here?
18:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i was... elsewhere
19:07:57 <Samu> i got a math problem, need help to solve it
19:10:56 <Samu> this for cycle and what it returns
19:11:48 <Samu> arf.. i dont know how to expose my problem :(
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19:17:06 <Samu> if slots from 1 to 2 are HU, slots 3 to 7 are AIs, slot 14 is HU and slot 15 is AI, and I set a max no of competitors to 10, then counting the number of editable slots is returning true for slot 12, and it shouldn't
19:17:29 <Samu> slot 12 should return false
19:17:51 <Samu> because slot 15 is an AI, but the for cycle is not counting it
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19:22:36 <Samu> this problem is also present in 1.6.0
19:23:16 <Samu> let me provide a savegame, already exposing this problem
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19:38:04 <Alberth> live.com is too broken to open, but from your description, I don't see why you cannot count ais first
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19:41:59 <Samu> return slot < max_slot && something_else_missing
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27556 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-05-11 19:45:36 +0200 )
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> spanish (mexican): 36 changes by Absay
19:46:32 <Samu> count ais first, how exactly do i make this counting?
19:47:04 <Samu> count from 0 to MAX_COMPANIES or max_slot or some other method?
19:49:10 <Samu> i got 4 variables if I'm not mistaken. there are Hu slots, Ai slots, not-yet-started slots determined by the max_no_competitor value and max_slot itself
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19:58:11 <Samu> max_slot is being computed wrong, i just know the problem is somehow related to max_slot
19:58:47 <supermop> my fiance found me an insane royal thai railways book in seattle
19:59:04 <Samu> supermop are u a math expert, problem solver or so?
19:59:27 <Alberth> Samu: you need to count ais, my guess is all ais, so pick a variable that realizes that
20:00:14 <supermop> with scale dimensioned drawings, stats, photos, and 100s of words of background on each bit of rolling stock up until the mid 90s
20:00:30 <Alberth> and pixels, I might add :)
20:01:22 <supermop> Samu: not at all, i had to re-take calculus in university because my score on my AP calc test from high school was not good enough to get me exempt from it
20:02:30 <supermop> in case you want an iron elephant roster instead
20:03:04 <Samu> counted_ais- if i count all ais i get 6 AIs total, or 5 AIs if counted up from the range 0-max_slot
20:03:40 <andythenorth> supermop: maybe one at a time :)
20:03:40 <Samu> max_slot changes itself from 10, to 11, then to 12
20:03:47 <andythenorth> or blend whole regions
20:04:09 <Samu> since slot 3, max_slot is equal to 12
20:05:20 <supermop> andythenorth: yeah. has interesting 1067mm stuff, including wartime Japanese Burma stuff. I thought it could apply to VN as well, but to be honest antelope could be a good fit for SEA as is
20:07:24 <supermop> but south east asia doesn't have the rich variety of stock to make it comparable to Japan or Britain for interesting 'mature' rail rosters, nor is it different enough from the other developing world rosters like antelope or llama
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20:08:31 <supermop> maybe just add a parameter that gives everything in antelope a Thai, Khmer, or Vietnamese name
20:08:53 <supermop> (being facetious a bit)
20:10:53 <supermop> she also brought me a radical anacho-syndicalist text on the 1990 Melbourne Tram lockout
20:11:47 <andythenorth> sounds like a GS
20:22:28 <supermop> can GS cause all vehicles of a certain roadtype to breakdown?
20:26:17 <Alberth> no, at least not that I know
20:26:58 <Alberth> even then, most people cheat their way out of breakdowns by disabling them
20:29:21 <supermop> Alberth: so much for disruptive labor action then!
20:38:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27557 trunk/config.lib (2016-05-11 20:38:44 +0200 )
20:38:51 <DorpsGek> -Fix: bashism that caused different CFLAGS with bash vs dash
20:39:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27558 /trunk (Makefile.bundle.in Makefile.src.in) (2016-05-11 20:39:18 +0200 )
20:39:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix: force sorting to be locale independent, so files are always ordered the same and by that token better diff-able
20:42:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r27559 /trunk/bin/baseset (8 files) (2016-05-11 20:42:32 +0200 )
20:42:39 <DorpsGek> -Update: baseset translations
20:47:28 <supermop> andythenorth: i am stealing your conveyors
21:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what's wrong with my system today. it seems to randomly dismiss keypresses or mouse button presses every once in a while
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21:09:22 <frosch123> reboot the keylogger
21:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen oom, this is not oom :p
21:17:06 <dihedral> the receicer of my wireless keyboard got stuck on a sent backspace signal, no further input from the keyboard was accepted, but it told my computer i was sending a bunch of backspaces....
21:17:13 <dihedral> good job there was ctrl+z
21:27:02 <supermop> can a railtype specify its own catenary?
21:27:58 <supermop> and if so, will loading a catenary grf late in the newgrf list override that?
21:28:30 <frosch123> railtype-specific catenary takes precedence over global catenary
21:29:03 <supermop> firs conveyors seem to have some sort of framework over the belt, i'd like to retain that without having to make the conveyor completely covered/enclosed
21:30:36 <supermop> although i'd settle for a covered conveyor if need be as it could match the isr tipples
21:32:21 <supermop> Supercheese: that page implies that depots are aware of town zone...
21:32:40 <supermop> i wonder what interesting tricks that could be used for
21:33:11 <Supercheese> I'm sure it could enable some shed-nanigans ;)
21:33:14 <Alberth> citizens demand a new depot in their city!
21:37:44 <supermop> whats the point of the new fence feature?
21:38:09 <supermop> in case you want the fence to be a solid wall that looks different on the "front" than on the back?
21:38:46 <frosch123> no, the hope is that you can line them up properly now
21:39:01 <frosch123> previously there was only a single sprite for vertical/horizontal fence
21:39:18 <frosch123> and you could not line up either with adjacent fences in corners
21:39:31 <frosch123> though, i guess noone really tries whether it works
21:39:49 <supermop> i wasn't planning on using fences at all
21:40:52 <supermop> shoulf a belt have grass underneath? or an isr or chips style tile? or dirt?
21:41:51 <supermop> best to do both i guess, so users can use belts across wilderness as well as large station and industrial complexes
21:43:55 <frosch123> assuming the belt is moved by gnomes walking underneath it
21:44:01 <frosch123> gnomes like walking in grass
21:45:27 <frosch123> belts are better than pipelines :p
21:46:52 <supermop> V453000: want to code for me?
21:47:16 <V453000> if I am famous for my coding, I need to reconsider things XD
21:47:32 <supermop> i can probably manage a rail grf that adds only one railtype, but lets see
21:47:47 <V453000> how does it matter if you add 1 or 14?
21:47:47 <ST2> belts are moved by captured bitters, put on the dungeons - that's why there's some fast belts xD
21:52:41 <Matombo> hi, i have a station near a cole mine and 2 trains getting the coal, but the mine only gives about 40% of the produced coal to the station
21:52:57 <Matombo> how can i make the coalmine giving more to the station?
21:53:30 <Matombo> (for it to grow i need to deliver 60%, also the trains would be more filled)
21:54:05 <frosch123> set the trains to full-load
21:54:49 <ST2> suggestion 2: build a Statur on town that gave station name
21:54:52 <Matombo> but i allready getting everything from the station, or will then be more delivered to the station while the train is waiting
21:55:10 <frosch123> Matombo: you need to improve your station rating
21:55:36 <frosch123> full-load is one of the most important things to do that
21:55:43 <Matombo> can i look my current rating up somewhere
21:56:53 <Matombo> ok where can i build the statue, i thought i once have read that somewhere but i don't know where anymore xD
22:01:12 <Matombo> well no spoilers in sim games imho
22:01:18 <Matombo> they are complicated enouth xD
22:05:26 <Alberth> nah, it's easy enough to make sufficient money, it only gets complicated when you want more :)
22:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i must say, i enjoyed some games way more before i learned all the details of the mechanics
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22:10:36 <Matombo> the build statue option is not available where it should be
22:10:45 <Matombo> any requirements for it to make it apear
22:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you need enough money
22:13:05 <supermop> can "rail" sprites have any height other than catenary?
22:13:37 <Matombo> Eddi|zuHause, but shouldn'T the option already be there?
22:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, options are hidden for some reason
22:14:19 <supermop> yeah i never got tha
22:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not even chris sawyer will know anymore after over 20 years :p
22:15:03 <supermop> he may not have know 20 years ago why he did it
22:22:10 <supermop> do i need to draw the belt as a "flat" rectangle on the ground, cut off at tile edge?
22:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> rail tiles do not have a bounding box, so i'd lean towards "yes"
22:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> monorails have problems with that
22:26:57 <supermop> what might go wrong if i do not follow that rule?
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22:32:49 <Samu> return slot < max_slot - uncounted_ais && max_slot - total_ais > uncounted_ais;
22:33:15 <Samu> have to verify this thoroughly
22:48:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r27560 /trunk/src (3 files) (2016-05-11 22:48:46 +0200 )
22:48:54 <DorpsGek> -Fix: typos in comments and string
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23:04:15 <Samu> but still, the function needs fixing :(
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23:12:24 <blathijs> Samu: The Debian build process has some checks for common typos, so I got some notices about them when building the Debian package just now :-)
23:28:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r27561 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel (sqstdlib/sqstdaux.cpp squirrel/sqdebug.cpp) (2016-05-11 23:28:39 +0200 )
23:28:46 <DorpsGek> -Fix [Squirrel]: Fix typos in error messages
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