IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-19
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00:37:34 <Samu> i've set lzo in openttd.cfg, just wondering if you get an error about loading savegame
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02:05:46 <Samu> there's nothing about speeding up autosaves anymore :(
02:06:15 <Samu> it just speeds up all saves on servers
02:07:22 <Samu> i'm sure this approach is bad
02:07:47 <Samu> don't have much time to think now, maybe tomorrow I can come up with something better about all this
02:10:21 <Samu> point a.2) is my main concern
02:10:44 <Samu> will think about it tomorrow, cyas goodnight
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10:20:20 <peter1138> hmm, i suppose i should get this new star trek film
10:20:46 <peter1138> but i don't have an hddvd player
10:27:03 <peter1138> ooh, a bluray drive with an aerodynamic enclosure... wha?
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10:41:19 <joepie91> irritating discovery: the openttd protocol is actually stateful
10:41:32 <joepie91> at least for the content server...
10:45:52 <Rubidium> you mean the version number of OpenTTD?
10:52:45 <joepie91> Rubidium: nah, looking at the content server protocol atm. PACKET_CONTENT_SERVER_CONTENT responses can be either metadata or file contents
10:52:56 <joepie91> depending on whether a metadata packet was seen before and how many bytes are left to read for the file
10:53:03 <joepie91> the packet itself doesn't indicate whether it's metadata or not
10:53:09 <joepie91> that's expected to be inferred from what was seen before
10:53:11 <joepie91> hence, stateful protocol
10:54:47 <joepie91> it's a little irritating since the protocol parser I'm writing has so far been based on the assumption of it being a stateless protocol, because most of it is
10:54:56 <joepie91> and now I have to change it :P
10:58:47 <Rubidium> oh that, but then when you have to transfer more than MTU bytes you can't really circumvent that, right?
10:58:58 <Rubidium> you have some state of the file to write (or not)
11:00:13 <Rubidium> though effectively it's just data that keeps coming till an end-of-file marker (i.e. empty packet)
11:00:33 <Rubidium> unless the file could not be opened at the server side
11:02:16 <Rubidium> yeah, but built on top of the generic UDP/TCP packet format of OpenTTD
11:09:12 <peter1138> if it's raw tcp then there are no packets, just a stream. but i dunno what ottd does on top.
11:09:54 <Rubidium> 1 byte type, 2 bytes length, n bytes content; repeat
11:20:01 <joepie91> Rubidium: it would've been easily solved by just having a separate packet type for file contents
11:20:14 <joepie91> right now there's a "content info" and "content data" type
11:20:21 <joepie91> and "content data" will have both file metadata and file contents
11:20:44 <joepie91> if there were "content info", "content file metadata" and "content file contents" packet types, you'd be able to write a stateless parser
11:20:49 <joepie91> even if you have to reassemble the chunks
11:21:06 <joepie91> but you wouldn't need to know about previous packets to be able to parse subsequent ones, as is the case now
11:21:24 <joepie91> each packet could be parsed independently even if you don't necessarily know what to do with the result
11:22:22 <joepie91> but right now the *format* of the "content data" packets will vary based on stream state :)
11:22:55 <joepie91> Rubidium: btw, packet length comes before packet type
11:41:31 <Rubidium> you should've mentioned that when I wrote it ;)
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12:02:24 <Samu> woah, Nvidia is on a roll, releasing crashing drivers one after another
12:09:43 <joepie91> Rubidium: hmm? you wrote the content protocol, or? :P
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12:52:57 <darksecond> Playing openttd again, cargodist is very cool :D
13:08:26 <Rubidium> joepie91: most of it, I reckon
13:11:51 <joepie91> Rubidium: on that note, I think there's a bug in it
13:11:55 <joepie91> you have a size check that seems off
13:12:17 <joepie91> in void ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::RequestContentList(ContentVector *cv, bool send_md5sum)
13:12:49 <joepie91> length assert is missing the uint8 that's being written
13:13:05 <joepie91> so it's going to be one byte off for the estimated length of each item
13:13:31 <joepie91> actual length of an item is 21 or 5, not 20 or 4 :)
13:13:52 <joepie91> posted this here yesterday as well but I guess it got lost in the conversation
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13:18:42 <joepie91> also, void ClientNetworkContentSocketHandler::RequestContentList(uint count, const ContentID *content_ids) has comments and a size check claiming that it writes a byte for the content type but I'm not seeing any such byte being written
13:20:35 <Rubidium> probably the cause of refactoring during development; could you make a patch for those issues and make a bug report with the patch attached to that (i.e. a tracker issue of type bug with a patch, not of type patch because that's generally for features and less well read)
13:20:53 <Rubidium> in any case I won't be doing anything with it as I don't have the required tools with me right now
13:21:27 <joepie91> Rubidium: I don't speak C++, so I'm not confident enough that I can write a correct patch :P
13:22:02 <joepie91> I can file a bug though
13:29:28 <Samu> question. I found a bug that only happens on 64-bit of openttd. Which category in flyspray is appropriate for this kind of bugs?
13:30:52 <Samu> it's the lzo bug i've been talking about, i figured as much i might fill a bug report about it
13:33:25 <Rubidium> but are you sure it is an OpenTTD bug and not an LZO bug?
13:33:47 <Rubidium> or maybe a bug in the LZO library you are using?
13:34:06 <Samu> i tested the official trunk and 1.6.0, it happens there too
13:35:45 <Samu> Unexpected end of chunk when loading LZO compressed saves
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14:37:24 <Samu> I found a bug in BusyBee
14:37:42 <Samu> how do i report a bug for this?
14:38:44 <Samu> Number of years to wait to fullfill a new goal: 3, but when i click the arrow to diminish this value, it goes up to 4
14:39:02 <Samu> 4 is the minimum I can set if i change that value from default of 3
14:40:17 <ST2> by default: GSInfo.AddSetting({name="wait_years", (...) min_value=4,
14:41:00 <ST2> somewhat hard_value=3, maybe the cause of 3 appear xD
14:41:24 <Samu> im not gonna register to that website :(
14:47:15 <Darksecond> cargodist makes the game a lot more challengeing
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14:49:52 <andythenorth> cargodist changes my play style a bit
14:51:24 <andythenorth> the most obvious is the automation of transfers, especially pax
14:51:32 <andythenorth> doing that without cargodist is blah
14:51:38 <andythenorth> peter1138: yacd :P
14:52:42 <andythenorth> for freight, cargodist tends to perform poorly with more than two routes per pickup station
14:52:50 <planetmaker> Samu, what's wrong with registering with the openttdcoop website?
14:53:03 <andythenorth> if a third route is added, it takes a long time recalculate and rebalance the cargo
14:53:05 <Darksecond> andythenorth: you wouldn't recommend cargodist for freight?
14:53:11 <andythenorth> it’s better to add a new pickup station, and let station rating balance cargo allocation
14:54:47 <andythenorth> I use it for freight, but I have found the edge cases, and fonso has explained to me how it works
14:54:47 * andythenorth was going to update cargodist wiki page, but never did :P
14:54:47 <andythenorth> also for pax, it looks obvious to connect all routes together
14:54:47 <andythenorth> that is a very poor strategy
14:54:47 <andythenorth> better to build quite isolated networks
14:55:13 <Darksecond> really? seems more fun to build one big network
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14:56:11 <Darksecond> so that's what I'm doing right now, cargodist pax with one big network :)
14:57:10 <andythenorth> biggest misconception is that cargodist assigns cargo a specific destination, it doesn’t
14:57:55 <Darksecond> how so? it even says 'from ... via ... to ...' in the little window thing
14:58:44 <andythenorth> it’s based on ‘next hop’ rather than specific destination
14:59:04 <andythenorth> it works out about the same, but it’s more like flow in pipes
14:59:14 <Darksecond> so they will get on the first train that goes to the next hop? instead of a direct line?
15:01:41 <andythenorth> not sure exactly
15:01:41 <andythenorth> but it’s much easier to understand as a system of pipes, with stations as splitters
15:01:41 <andythenorth> and it uses distance and link capacity like valves to control proportions
15:01:41 <andythenorth> to people who can think algorithmically, I think that’s not a useful distinction
15:01:42 <andythenorth> but to people who think cargodist is actually simulating, e.g. preferences of individual passengers, it matters
15:02:54 <Darksecond> what I do like is how some stations slowly become 'hubs' of sorts :)
15:03:44 <andythenorth> it makes playing with airports much more satisfying
15:03:55 <andythenorth> airports can be fed from neighbouring towns
15:04:23 * joepie91 finds airports to be a capacity nightmare
15:04:40 <andythenorth> just don’t overfeed them
15:04:47 <joepie91> turns out it's quite easy to do that
15:04:58 <joepie91> much more success with long-distance trains
15:05:23 <joepie91> bah, there's a bug in my parser...
15:06:13 <joepie91> whee, found another bug in OpenTTD source
15:22:09 <Wolf01> gah researched the electric furnace before plastic :|
15:22:45 <peter1138> no bugs, just features
15:23:21 <joepie91> fine, fine, misfeatures then :D
15:26:26 <joepie91> Rubidium: any chance I could pick your brain for a minute?
15:26:34 <joepie91> my parser is mis-parsing and I can't quite work out why
15:28:01 <joepie91> oh, hold on, I think I found the problem
15:28:58 <joepie91> forgot to advance my pointer after encountering a nullbyte in a string
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16:28:10 <_dp_> hi, did tropic landgen change in 1.6? doesn't seem to generate any hills whatsoever now
16:28:23 <_dp_> and there is nothing about it in changelog
16:30:16 <_dp_> I mean it does it on hilly, but there were plenty on "very flat" too previously
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16:38:13 <_dp_> oh damn, that's what "tune down" meant, everything is more flat now
16:38:25 <_dp_> how do I get back old settings then?
16:41:19 <Samu> .time to work on version 3
16:41:29 <_dp_> will it be enough if I just revert r27230?
16:42:50 <andythenorth> _dp_: desert has been flat for some time
16:42:58 <andythenorth> it’s absolutely crap :)
16:43:24 <andythenorth> you can patch it yourself trivially, just copy the temperate code in the switch, it works well
16:43:29 <Alberth> probably since MHL got added?
16:43:49 <_dp_> well, what I'm talking about changed in 1.6.0, there are plenty of trees in 1.5.3
16:44:36 <Alberth> different tree algorithm?
16:44:57 <_dp_> Alberth, nah, it's more flat now and trees only spawn on hills in tropic
16:45:55 <_dp_> Alberth, it seems it was your change actually ;)
16:46:37 <Alberth> chill change actually
16:47:49 <Alberth> he tried to fix the long slopes in MHL added openttd, which worked, a bit too well, perhaps, even :)
16:48:00 <Alberth> some parts were later reverted iirc
16:48:53 <Alberth> maybe this one should have been reverted too
16:48:59 <supermop> is it just me or is their no slide/page/board size in powerpoint
16:49:22 <supermop> like i cant set the size or ratio of these things they are just always 4
16:50:28 <supermop> why would anyone use this as a design tool
16:50:44 <supermop> except for the situation i'm in now where my boss told me to
16:51:04 <_dp_> ah, I dealt with mhl by setting max_heightlevel back to 15, so I guess that's why it's affecting me now xD
16:51:54 <Alberth> heights settings are not entirely correctly implemented any more, iirc
16:52:18 <Alberth> too many things are set in absolute values
16:52:19 <_dp_> well, it seemed to do the job)
16:52:41 <Alberth> which breaks if you change max height
16:53:41 <_dp_> yeah, also config settings are same as gui ones
16:54:05 <_dp_> so if you change what "very flat" means it also breaks existing configs
17:18:53 <Alberth> one could convert from number to percentage num*100/16 :)
17:20:26 <joepie91> my protocol parser works :D
17:20:34 <joepie91> content downloads and all!
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17:35:01 <frosch123> _dp_: try with max height levels set to 16
17:35:36 <frosch123> tropic does a height transformation, which tries to create mostly low land with a few peaks
17:35:40 <frosch123> this is broken with mhgl
17:36:00 <frosch123> vice versa, artic tries to generate high land with a few valleys
17:36:11 <frosch123> this is broken with mhl, and thus people complain about no forests in arctic :p
17:36:43 <_dp_> frosch123, already have it at 15 since mhl introduction)
17:36:57 <frosch123> ok, i expected the mapgen would work then :)
17:37:04 <tony> Hi, is anyone here familiar with Clueless plus AI, and the NoCarGoal game script?
17:37:29 <frosch123> several people here played nocargoal several times
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17:38:58 <tony> @frosch123 cool, I was looking to extending the cluesless AI that should work with it but from what I can tell, it doesn't?
17:39:55 <frosch123> are you refering to the "script communication protocol"?
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17:45:14 <andythenorth> bloody mapgen :D
17:45:16 <Samu> the logic behind the choice of an encoding speed when a save request
17:47:27 <Samu> do you have other suggestions?
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18:00:37 <tony> I think it maybe because the Game Script is using 1.2 of SCP but the AI 1.3.
18:20:22 <frosch123> @calc (1460 - 2 - 1 - 1) / 5
18:20:24 <frosch123> @calc (1460 - 2 - 1 - 1) / 21
18:20:24 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 69.3333333333
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19:09:41 <Samu> could openttd delete savegame function actually move the file to the recycle bin?
19:13:43 <Rubidium> not reliably across all platforms I guess
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19:32:40 <Samu> i actually like the idea of user defined variables
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20:01:58 <Samu> Clamp(2, 0, 9) this checks if 2 is inside a range that goes from 0 to 9?
20:02:28 <Samu> but it doesn't return a true, it returns 2
20:02:58 <Alberth> read the documentation of the function?
20:07:22 <Samu> oh, i see, makes sense, sorry
20:13:31 <Samu> this is all starting to make sense
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20:26:12 <Samu> i have a dilema, need your input
20:26:39 <Samu> do you mind if i set min.compression for ZLIB to 1?
20:26:46 <Samu> because 0 doesn't even compress
20:27:19 <Samu> and there's already a "none" for that
20:32:35 <Samu> :(, i'm setting the min to 1, hope it's okay
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20:36:35 <Samu> as for lzma, 7, 8 and 9 are actually doing worse than lzma:6
20:38:13 <Samu> lzma:9 is especially bad for 32-bits
20:38:36 <Samu> game might runs out of memory if the map is large
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21:10:09 * andythenorth builds the world’s worst 4 way junction
21:18:21 <frosch123> do you have 90° turns enabled?
21:19:55 <andythenorth> yeah I have 90º turns enabled
21:20:05 <andythenorth> I used to disable it, but balls to that realism crap
21:20:21 <andythenorth> 90º is needed for ships to work on rivers
21:20:25 <andythenorth> and it makes it more fun also
21:24:05 <andythenorth> oops, that 4 way distracted me, forgot to do my BB goals :)
21:55:14 <peter1138> Not realism, it just looks shit when trains do it.
21:55:29 <peter1138> Also º is still not a degrees symbol :p
21:59:10 <frosch123> apparently it is some spanish character
21:59:24 <frosch123> "masculine ordinal indicator"
21:59:28 <frosch123> no idea what that means
22:01:19 <andythenorth> one day I’ll find the degree symbol :D
22:01:25 <andythenorth> if I try enough key combos
22:01:52 <sim-al2> It's fun to how almost all special characters fail in my IRC client
22:03:03 <sim-al2> I can't, as far as I can tell
22:04:11 <frosch123> you are missing out on all the ö, œ and ø
22:04:59 <andythenorth> also the magic quotes
22:05:39 * andythenorth wonders about fixing station construction window
22:07:56 <sim-al2> Yeah, I see lot's of this: “no”
22:08:50 <sim-al2> "you are missing out on all the ö, œ and ø"
22:09:18 <sim-al2> It works on Chatzilla of course, but I do like this interface more
22:09:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: i never understood quotes "'«»‘’‚‛“”„‟‹›⍘⍞❛❜❝❞��❮❯〝〞〟＂
22:10:55 <andythenorth> fun aren’t they?
22:11:08 <frosch123> i mean how many rotations are positions can a ' possibly have?
22:11:24 <andythenorth> are there quote emojis?
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22:11:48 <Alberth> /me wonders about emoji cargo
22:11:57 <andythenorth> oh they’re just unicode points or something I guess
22:12:07 <Alberth> or quote cargo, for that matter
22:12:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: ☹☺☻〠 <- those?
22:12:37 <andythenorth> really, there’s an emoji for the Wuppertal suspension monorail? :o
22:12:41 <andythenorth> that seems overkill
22:12:45 <Alberth> not all, I think, just the ones in the official unicode tables
22:18:05 <Samu> could the minimap information run on a separate thread?
22:19:08 <frosch123> i discussed with eddi, what kind of synchronisation objects it woudl require to run a computer with countable infinite cores
22:19:22 <frosch123> i blame it on samu for waiting indefinitely for infinity
22:23:31 <andythenorth> there is a godwin law equivalent that applies to countable and non-countable infinity
22:24:27 <andythenorth> converting to electrified track has explosion sound effect
22:24:35 * andythenorth normally plays with sound off, because crossing bells
22:25:13 <frosch123> sounds like everyone does who uses convert-track :p
22:26:20 <frosch123> CcPlaySound10 plays SND_12_EXPLOSION
22:27:19 <frosch123> all CcPlaySound are off by two
22:28:12 <Alberth> Samu: of course it can, deciding beforehand whether it will have the effect you want is the tricky part
22:29:07 <Samu> it is extremely slow when i zoom out the minimap :\
22:30:13 <Samu> are these draw calls or something like that?
22:30:34 <frosch123> i still have not found a passive-agressive insult to display when someone selects a mapsize with more than 1M tiles
22:31:14 <Wolf01> something like "oh noes, here we go again with this absurd map size"
22:32:07 <Samu> i had a dream that one day i'd be able to run openttd with 15 AIs + GS on a giant map
22:32:08 <Alberth> Samu: pixels blitted directly into the displayed memory
22:32:13 * andythenorth has not found a way to educate people about the meaning of passive-aggressive :(
22:33:36 <frosch123> ottd could just generate a smaller map, noone would notice
22:33:39 <Wolf01> "shit I forgot to see how much I took to get electricity in this game"
22:34:12 <Samu> i hope 16 GB of RAM is enough
22:34:44 <Samu> openttd is currently close to 5.9 GB RAM usage
22:34:57 <Wolf01> meanwhile people are hosting on ras.pi
22:35:28 <Samu> only 16 game years have passed though
22:36:29 <Alberth> you can simply run each AI separately, at that map size, they won't bother each other
22:36:37 <Samu> frames are passing by so slowly
22:36:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: that sound effect seems better
22:36:51 <Samu> takes about half a second to update mouse cursor
22:37:13 <andythenorth> also withholding the requested map size is genuinely passive aggressive :)
22:38:32 <sim-al2_2> I've turned off most of the sounds because of the subtropical climate
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22:38:41 <sim-al2_2> (and the damn sawmills in temperate)
22:39:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27547 trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp (2016-04-19 22:39:08 +0200 )
22:39:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Use a more appropiate sound effect for convert-rail. (andythenorth)
22:39:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: I didn’t write the patch :)
22:40:38 <frosch123> well, i didn't even start ottd :p
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23:02:43 <Samu> yes, i finally figured this
23:02:46 <Samu> const SaveLoadFormat *fmt = GetSavegameFormat(((_savegame_format != NULL) ? _savegame_format : _sendmap_format), &compression);
23:03:59 <Samu> i have 3 user defined settings for this
23:04:09 <Samu> the already existant _savegame_format
23:04:18 <Samu> 1 more i am creating _sendmap_format
23:04:25 <Samu> and another _autosave_format
23:04:36 <Samu> these are user defined in openttd.cfg
23:05:22 <Samu> now I got to work on bools
23:06:25 <Samu> but if there's a better approach for this, plz tell me
23:08:53 <frosch123> the fastest compression is not necessarily the most suitable one
23:09:07 <frosch123> you have to balance it with the network transmission speed
23:09:43 <frosch123> ideally you compress just as fast as you can send data
23:13:07 <Samu> (_savegame_format != NULL) ? is to be replaced with an ugly mess of bools that will be put in there, i make the bools before passing them into GetSavegameFormat
23:13:26 <Samu> k lets see what I can do, brb
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