IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-04-01
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00:00:54 <Samu_> you can try it yourself
00:01:17 <Samu_> enter my server, save game, then load the game and see it happening
00:10:49 <Samu_> is game_start.scr carried over to the savegame?
00:15:42 <glx> save on server or client ?
00:15:59 <Samu_> save was on client, client does not have any script
00:16:05 <Samu_> load was also on client
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00:16:42 <Samu_> client script folder is emtpy, not running anything
00:19:56 <Samu_> I also have a pre_dedicated.scr on the server, with this simple line: debuglevel net=1
00:21:29 <Samu_> oh, and the server openttd.exe file was converted, with that utility you gave me to download
00:22:56 <glx> .scr are local to the server
00:29:33 <glx> after reading the code it seems to work as intended
00:32:59 <glx> if you save on the server it will work
00:36:52 <Samu_> saved on server, loaded on client, MogulAIs are still MogulAIs
00:36:59 <glx> client doesn't have AI info so it can't save it
00:37:50 <glx> it just knows there's an AI
00:39:58 <Samu_> thanks, another mystery solved :p
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01:02:23 <Samu_> when hosting a multiplayer game, could it start with 0 humans?
01:02:39 <Samu_> instead of putting the host in company 1?
01:02:53 <Samu_> host would start as spectator
01:08:04 <Samu_> hmm, in fact, it should also do the same for when loading a save in multiplayer
01:08:40 <Samu_> i dont have much time today, but I'm going to investigate this tomorrow
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09:33:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, actually I *did* make the river sprites, but not the rock sprites.
09:34:37 <planetmaker> I had my hands on *all* OpenGFX ground sprites, but not enough to claim having made them. I mostly made them 'scriptable' in a big gimp file with many layers
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11:05:54 <Wolf01> I'm dying to know why the 1.6.0 has not been published today :)
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11:09:02 <andythenorth> today is not over yet? o_O
11:11:55 <Wolf01> I'm used to wake up and find april fools and fake april fools already there, maybe I woke up too early :P
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14:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it used to be that release was around 0:00. those times have faded, i guess
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15:59:41 <Samu> but how do i test savegame / loadgame compatibility?
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16:26:39 <Samu> from my testings, there is no apparent issues with backward compatibility
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16:34:53 <Samu> saving the game with max_no_competitors set to 15 with load fine on the old client version, it just reverts it to 14
16:35:59 <Samu> saving the game with max_no_competitors set to 15 with load fine on the same client version, will still have it set to 15
16:38:03 <Samu> do I need to test something else?
16:39:12 <Samu> seems odd that it's working, when you were telling me that the number 14 wasn't chosen on a whim
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17:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> "Reddid has removed a paragraph from its transparency report that it never received a 'national security letter' or other secret request by law enforcement agencies to disclose data"
17:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also, Genscher died. :/
17:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> now that is a person who probably had a big (but very indirect) influence on my life
17:08:31 <Alberth> Samu: administrator logging in?
17:09:25 <Alberth> MP, server owner, logging in to fix problems
17:09:47 <Alberth> how are you going to do that with 15 AIs?
17:10:42 <Samu> uhm, is that the rcon command?
17:11:06 <Alberth> I don't know, I never manage MP games
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17:11:12 <Alberth> I don't even run them
17:14:36 <Alberth> tbh I don't even understand why 14 AIs isn't enough
17:15:18 <Alberth> MP game completely filled with AIs is just madness, imho
17:15:19 <ST2> Samu is a voyeur, I guess xD
17:15:56 <Samu> st2, how do i administrator loggin in ?
17:16:23 <ST2> if that, check rcon password
17:16:59 <Samu> can i set a pass with the server still running?
17:17:23 <ST2> that I have no idea - never done it :S
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17:19:33 <Samu> rcon_password, admin_password, server_password, which one is it?
17:24:48 <Samu> i was able to send a message
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17:25:26 <Samu> rcon 123 "say test", message was sent
17:25:52 <Samu> what do i need to test exactly Alberth ?
17:28:21 <Alberth> like I said, I never managed any MP game, how would I know?
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17:41:29 <Samu> I don't undestand this admin_password. what is this for
17:42:16 <ST2> admin_password is to connect to admin port (I think :)
17:43:55 <Samu> uhm :( what's an admin port? :8
17:45:29 <Samu> 3977? that is not forwarded
17:46:04 <ST2> you only need it if you use some kind of listner software
17:46:18 <ST2> again, I think - I'm kinda noob on those matters ^^
17:46:45 <Samu> i thought you were in charge of 50 btpro servers :8
17:47:28 <ST2> 28, but don't know all specifics by heart
17:48:15 <Samu> you enter them with rcon command?
17:48:35 <ST2> no, but because of the software controller we use
17:48:37 <Samu> if you know the rcon pass?
17:49:15 <ST2> well, I have access to servers (machines themselves) - so, yes I know rcon pw ^^
17:49:57 <ST2> previous link: as I said, if you dnt use some admin port listener, won't need/use admin port
17:51:07 <Samu> i don't really know what Alberth wanted me to try
17:51:09 <ST2> games dnt combine well here ^^
17:53:14 <Samu> but I dont have port 3977 forwarded :(
17:54:23 <Wolf01> meh, broke visual studio with the update... no work today
17:54:52 <Alberth> just type code, without compiling :)
17:55:10 <Wolf01> nah, I need to compile it
17:55:37 <Wolf01> also I would like intellisense
17:56:35 <Samu> brb removing admin_password
17:56:50 <Alberth> oh, microsoft name for auto completions :)
17:57:26 <andythenorth> the conflicting industry code is still C-Pre-Processor macros
17:57:58 <andythenorth> I can port it, just means conflict checks will take longer to add than I hoped
17:58:05 <Alberth> I did see a list of conflicting industries somewhere-ish
17:58:27 <andythenorth> there are lists on each industry
17:58:32 <andythenorth> manually maintained
17:59:26 <Samu> how do i remove a password? tried leaving the setting empty
17:59:38 <Samu> but it just tells the urrent password
17:59:48 <andythenorth> I could feed the python property from the python conflict check
17:59:55 <andythenorth> and leave the templating untouched
18:01:21 <Alberth> yeah, I'd consider it 2 problems, getting the list less outdated, and generation of the checks :)
18:01:53 <andythenorth> I wanted to make the checks economy aware, because there might be a fractional perfomance implication
18:02:02 <andythenorth> probably minimal at best
18:02:51 <Alberth> sounds likely, as it's only done while building a new industry
18:04:26 <Samu> setting network.admin_password ""
18:12:06 <andythenorth> well let’s see...
18:16:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: (I slept little, and am being stupid)
18:16:47 <andythenorth> I want to import chk_ind_compatibility to industry.py
18:16:53 <andythenorth> but that’s a circular import...
18:19:40 <Alberth> that doesn't usually work :)
18:20:01 <Alberth> not sure what it needs there, maybe you can pass it through parameters?
18:20:40 <andythenorth> I just need to call it from Industry methods
18:21:10 <andythenorth> actually there’s probably another way
18:21:34 <Alberth> you can work around the import by moving it into the code, but euhm, hacky :)
18:22:41 <andythenorth> Industry is already a god file :)
18:33:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you have output from chk_ind_compatibility.py?
18:36:21 <andythenorth> the file is python 2, right? o_O
18:37:50 <andythenorth> I ported it to python 3, but something else is amiss locally
18:37:59 <andythenorth> I think I’ll come back to this one :)
18:43:45 * andythenorth tries to teach RV pathfinder to stay out of some tiles, depending on road subtype
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19:02:58 <andythenorth> looks like GetTileTrackStatus() is the place to patch
19:21:29 <Wolf01> meh, VS doesn't see that the universal app tools are already installed
19:21:55 <Wolf01> I even tried to reinstall it :(
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19:25:56 <andythenorth> hmm Eddi suggested IndividualRoadVehicleController
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19:37:58 <frosch123> you have 1 hour left to report typos in the changelog :)
19:38:37 <frosch123> does this highlight l_n ?
19:39:20 <DorpsGek> frosch123: *ln* could be __ln__ (10 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 32 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), __ln___ (18 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), __ln_ (37 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago), Invulner (2 years, 0 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 1 minute, and 8 seconds ago), michelNL (2 years, 11 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), SOULNCHAIN (3 years, 10 weeks, (2 more messages)
19:40:18 * andythenorth already did the FIRS 2.0.0 tag
19:40:29 <andythenorth> so if I made errors in my changelog, I’m screwed :D
19:40:54 <andythenorth> hmm, somewhere, there must be a simple check that the tile has compatible roadtype on it
19:41:03 <andythenorth> but is it in vehicle, or road, or pathfinder :P
19:41:15 <Alberth> changelog looks good to me
19:41:43 <Alberth> probably in expanding to neighbour tiles in the path finder
19:42:28 <andythenorth> I think I am confused between vehicle movement, and pathfinding so far
19:42:42 * andythenorth assumes roadtype must be irrelevant for movement
19:43:02 <andythenorth> it’s only when entering a tile that type must be checked?
19:43:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: src/pathfinder/follow_track.hpp and src/road_cmd.cpp
19:44:49 <andythenorth> I assumed GetTileTrackStatus_Road() but I can’t see any case for normal road there
19:44:54 <andythenorth> only special handling for depots etc
19:45:08 <frosch123> that is one of the two functions
19:45:29 <frosch123> sub_mode is the roadtype
19:45:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27530 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2016-04-01 19:45:37 +0200 )
19:45:43 <DorpsGek> catalan: 2 changes by juanjo
19:46:05 <frosch123> RoadType rt = (RoadType)FindFirstBit(sub_mode); <- that one for example
19:46:36 <andythenorth> ‘sub_mode’ exists, and I have added ‘subtype’ also
19:46:40 <andythenorth> not confusing at all
19:46:42 <frosch123> you likely need to extend sub_mode so it contains both the road/tram flag as well as your new road/tram subtype
19:47:15 <frosch123> if ((GetRoadTypes(tile) & sub_mode) == 0) break; <- likely it is then sufficient to extend that check with your subtype
19:47:42 <frosch123> the second function you need to change is VehicleEnter_Road
19:48:21 <frosch123> the thirs is CFollowTrackT::GetSingleTramBit
19:48:49 <frosch123> that should be enough
19:53:42 <Samu> some suggestions for the AI/Game Script Window: inside the "AIs" window, expand the size of the list so that the entire list is visible without having to scroll up or down"
19:53:46 <frosch123> i guess you may need something like sub_mode = road_types | road_subtype << 8 | tram_subtype << 16
19:54:08 <Samu> also, each line should be numbered, from #1 to 15
19:54:32 <Samu> then instead of having a Configure button, have the parameters display immediately on a panel to the right
19:54:57 <frosch123> 1 to 15 would be misleading
19:55:06 <frosch123> that would look like company numbers
19:55:07 <Samu> just highlighing an AI from the list, would immediately display its parameters on the panel
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19:55:44 <frosch123> Samu: make it consistent with newgrf gui
19:56:35 <Samu> that window is too complex for me
20:01:51 * andythenorth goes back to first principles: bitwise AND of GetRoadTypes(tile) & sub_mode
20:02:15 <andythenorth> I get 0 if both bits are 0?
20:02:27 <andythenorth> and 1 if both bits are 1?
20:03:17 <Alberth> x and y == 1 only happens when x == 1 and y == 1
20:03:44 <Alberth> x or y == 1 only happens when x == 1 or y == 1 (or both)
20:04:10 <Samu> the misleading part for me is related with how the window interacts with the max number of competitors settings.
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20:06:49 <Samu> if i set a max number of 5 AIs, the list allows me to configure the slots from 2 to 6, slot 1 is always assumed to be human
20:07:49 <Samu> if the game is multiplayer, some other human joins in and takes company 3 slot, the max no of competitor settings will still end up starting 5 companies, but will not be able to use the settings from the slot 3
20:08:31 <Samu> we got company 1 and 3 humans, then 2, 4, 5 ,6, 7 as AIs, but I was not able to configure slot 7
20:10:22 <Samu> and I have no real idea how to make this more flexible
20:10:49 <Samu> each line is tied to a company #
20:17:43 <Samu> for now, the only feasible thing I can think of, is to get rid of the limitation
20:18:07 <Samu> no interaction between max no competitors and the list
20:18:46 <Samu> but won't fix the real problem
20:23:19 * andythenorth tried to make ROADTYPE_ROAD drive on tram by ORing the RoadBits
20:24:22 <Samu> must find a way to untie line position from company id#
20:25:04 <Alberth> track next unused line, while walking over companies
20:25:40 <Alberth> or find next company while walking over lines
20:27:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27531 /branches/1.6 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2016-04-01 20:27:37 +0200 )
20:27:41 <DorpsGek> [1.6] -Update: Documentation
20:32:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27532 /tags/1.6.0 (11 files in 3 dirs) (2016-04-01 20:32:32 +0200 )
20:40:20 <andythenorth> ha bananaramas only knows about old OpenTTD versions
20:44:37 <sim-al2> I guess that's not how things work though
20:47:30 <Alberth> this was just the commit, you need a little patience to get the binaries built
20:47:34 <Samu> thx supermop, now what the heck is a foundation :(
20:48:10 <Samu> for the sprites for testing
20:48:11 <Alberth> piece of wall to make the tile flat
20:51:17 <supermop> the foundations are already in base sets
20:52:01 <andythenorth> meh, forums list formatting is a PITA :)
20:53:49 <Alberth> use ascii editor, copy+paste :)
20:54:57 <andythenorth> all wiki & forum formatting is evil :)
20:55:05 <andythenorth> either respect tabs, or give me html :)
20:55:11 <andythenorth> most do neither :P
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21:01:47 <Samu> (8) SLOPE_N, (13) SLOPE_ENW, (29) SLOPE_STEEP_N
21:02:20 <Samu> that's the slopes you provided
21:02:30 <Samu> now, I don't even know how to put them to use
21:03:16 <andythenorth> patience grasshopper
21:20:33 <andythenorth> I commented out // if (side != INVALID_DIAGDIR && (DiagDirToRoadBits(side) & bits) == 0) break;
21:20:52 <andythenorth> and am confused why road vehicles aren’t now behaving unusually
21:25:40 * andythenorth usually learns by trying to break stuff
21:25:51 <andythenorth> and then triggering alerts or odd behaviour
21:25:59 <andythenorth> alert / assert /s
21:26:21 <Alberth> I try that too, every now and then :)
21:33:11 <supermop> samu does the approach make sense
21:33:56 <supermop> that we can cut up the existing ogfx+ rapids to make the slopes?
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21:39:42 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.6.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy"
21:40:34 <Samu> hey supermop, I am clueless, honestly, I don't know what to do at this point.
21:40:57 <Samu> I'm not familiar with foundations
21:42:00 <andythenorth> FIRS release to forums is so emotionally rewarding :P
21:42:02 <Samu> I'd like to test the slopes you gave me, but i have no idea how to even make use of them
21:42:22 <supermop> you wont need foundations for those
21:42:28 <andythenorth> at least my road vehicle is now refusing to drive on certain road tiles
21:42:53 <andythenorth> I think this _might_ not be complete though o_O
21:42:54 <andythenorth> if (road_subtype != 0) break;
21:43:08 <Alberth> I hope it's not even/off tiles, or you get nowhere :p
21:43:38 <supermop> samu what seems to be the problem - they should work similar to the existing ogfx river slopes
21:46:49 <Samu> gonna write some random code
21:46:56 <andythenorth> you need to find the drawing routine, if you haven’t already
21:47:01 <andythenorth> and patch in some new sprite numbers
21:47:02 <Samu> and see what intellisense complains
21:47:12 <supermop> i don't how else to explain
21:47:24 <andythenorth> and modify the magic newgrf that ottd uses for extra stuff
21:47:50 <andythenorth> I can’t remember if that auto-compiles, or if you have to do it manually with grfcodec
21:48:41 <andythenorth> media/extra_grf/rivers
21:49:13 * andythenorth drew those sprites, much regret :P
21:49:36 <andythenorth> yeah, you’ll need to extend the nfo to provide new sprites
21:49:50 <andythenorth> it only _sounds_ hard :)
21:50:57 <Samu> aha, i found that folder: media/extra_grf/rivers
21:51:06 <andythenorth> ha, I’ve got a vehicle stuck in a loop on a tile it should not have entered :)
21:51:08 <andythenorth> clearly more to do
21:52:00 <Samu> now i need to make the code make use of it
21:52:12 <andythenorth> need to extend the nfo
21:52:42 <Samu> yes, i see those in the same folder, interesting
21:52:49 <supermop> what i am suggesting samu, is just like how i cut up the slopes to reassemble,
21:53:26 <supermop> maybe your code can make whatever slop it needs by cutting parts of the existing ones
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21:54:15 <supermop> and choose from those 4 or so options so you get exponential amount of pseudo-random possibilities?
21:54:48 <supermop> if thats too hard i can just manually make the other needed slopes
21:55:59 <supermop> what about a river that only runs along the bottom of a slope though - we don't need or want any water shown on the sloped face - only the flat bottom?
21:56:50 <Samu> I envision it requiring river being on both flat and sloped
21:57:06 <andythenorth> it will be a faster patch initially if there’s no compositing of sprites, is my guess
21:57:12 <andythenorth> current river sprites are composited
21:57:22 <andythenorth> but I would guess that means writing more code
21:57:37 <supermop> andythenorth: yeah, just imagining a future with less repetition in graphics
21:57:46 <supermop> and less drawing by me
21:58:01 <andythenorth> time-to-working patch is what matters initially :)
21:58:06 <Samu> the river borders are dependant on the surrounding tiles
21:58:59 <supermop> so you might end up with imposible things like a river running sideways along a slope
21:59:26 <Samu> yes, just like in the picture
21:59:38 <supermop> andythenorth: computer time cheaper than artist time
22:00:24 <andythenorth> works for road, but trams are entering a tile they shouldn’t be, then getting stuck
22:00:27 <supermop> yep looks like some code
22:01:00 <supermop> that happend if a real tram drives onto the pavement too
22:04:21 <Samu> how do i edit the .nfo files? ;( need a special program?
22:04:37 <Samu> i can't quite get the coding style in that file
22:05:12 <Samu> i think you mean numbers
22:05:17 <drac_boy> abit sometimes line breaks may be omitted
22:05:35 <drac_boy> samu .. *.num doesn't really exist unless you're thinking of numeric :)
22:05:55 <Samu> -1 sprites/rapids.png 8bpp 10 10 64 23 -31 0 normal
22:06:06 <Samu> need a guide for deciphering this
22:06:40 <drac_boy> thats the sprite position line I believe
22:07:53 <andythenorth> those are action 1s or so
22:08:22 <andythenorth> it’s ok once you understand how to read the bytes
22:26:53 * andythenorth wonders at tram magic
22:27:06 <supermop> trams are magic, i miss them
22:27:36 <supermop> not sure about 3 billion to build one in williamsburg though
22:28:18 <andythenorth> I don’t think it’s GetSingleTramBit that allows the tram to enter a tile with wrong subtype
22:28:31 <drac_boy> heh I only like certain trams but too many of them are either rusty plastic and/or bad city planning route-wise
22:35:46 <supermop> a tram shows a civic minded commitment and sacrifice that buses do not
22:36:05 <supermop> and allow neighborhoods to plan themselves around a certain fixture
22:36:28 <supermop> whereas a bus line can easily be cancelled
22:40:31 <drac_boy> well sumpermop the problem is the street was there first usually
22:40:53 <drac_boy> plus forget about being able to detour a service without keeping non-tram buses on backup
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22:42:43 <andythenorth> well I can’t fix RVs
22:42:54 <andythenorth> and forums have delivered the usual slap in the face to 1 year’s work
22:43:32 <frosch123> eints can now operate on git repositories
22:45:18 <frosch123> he, no fishing in arctic? :p
22:46:06 <andythenorth> nah, fish are everywhere
22:46:17 <andythenorth> I did a diff of Arctic against Temperate
22:46:21 <andythenorth> there were about 4 differences
22:46:57 <frosch123> all fish are extinct in arctic now
22:47:15 <andythenorth> fishing is not that big a deal in Scandinavia
22:47:21 <andythenorth> I thought it was, but it’s not, so eh
22:47:44 <andythenorth> drilling dead fish out the ground in black liquid form is the major money earner
22:47:47 <andythenorth> and making tractor
22:49:16 <andythenorth> no release post frosch123? o_O
22:49:24 <supermop> andythenorth: and chainsaws and sewing machines
22:49:36 <frosch123> no, want to write on?
22:49:43 * andythenorth wants to go to bed :P
22:49:55 <andythenorth> I was only sticking around to do \o/ in encouragement
22:50:12 <supermop> and a car that drains its battery every night so yu have to push start it by walking it along with one leg out the door
22:50:14 <andythenorth> “1.6.0 is done. Changelog: [url]"
22:50:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: only rcs need a post
22:50:32 <frosch123> when we did no post, there were like 1/4 of testers
22:50:39 <frosch123> but, who cares about the release?
22:51:02 <frosch123> maybe someone provides a haiku in a few days :)
22:51:14 <andythenorth> well in that case
22:51:28 <andythenorth> tomorrow, I fight RVS again :P
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23:08:40 <Tedjam> Any assistance? Setting up a server 1.5.3 on Ubu; Cant seem to find it on server list. server_advertise is true, and ports *should* be working, hit me for any more details
23:09:00 <DorpsGek> frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
23:09:21 <frosch123> you need to forwards those ports in your router
23:11:09 <Tedjam> Im using my AWS EC2, so its in the security groups settings -> I've set inbound rules for UDP and TCP 3979 and UDP 3978, and outbound is set to all traffic
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23:21:58 <glx> checked the server list ingame or on servers.openttd.org ?
23:26:33 <Samu> please help me decipher these numbers
23:26:38 <Samu> -1 sprites/rapids.png 8bpp 10 10 64 23 -31 0 normal
23:27:16 <Samu> 10 10 is the coordinates where the image beings in that .png file?
23:28:01 <Samu> then 64 23 is the size of one of the actual sprites inside the .png
23:28:14 <Samu> what about the other numbers?
23:28:48 <Samu> or am i seeing this wrong?
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