IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-02-19
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00:16:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:22:30 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
00:47:32 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
00:49:48 <drac_boy> got a bit unusual question for you ... even although it wouldn't do much difference to a grf locomotive I'm still curious if blowing nitrogen dioxide instead of oxygen into a firebox would even result in any noticeable difference or not much?
01:02:23 <sim-al2> I think that would just displace oxygen, without doing much else
01:05:50 <drac_boy> thanks, and how're you doing anyhow?
01:06:24 <sim-al2> Nitrogen dioxide is really nasty btw, it does a lot of damage to the lungs even in low doses
01:07:31 <drac_boy> heh well the real reason i asked was because of using off-gassing from one source to power another (or in this case 'another' being firebox atmosphere) but probably pointless at this viewpoint now :)
01:08:40 <drac_boy> <is doing ok after a long week earlier on, hoping to work on some more papers and the so from tonight to the weekend
01:11:42 <sim-al2> Now nitrous oxide is the stuff used in racing, and it does help deliver some more oxygen during combustion, but production is much less than the nitrogen oxides resulting from internal combustion
01:16:35 <drac_boy> at least in theory (I think, I'm no skilled into this) a stationary large turbine could probably easily auger a small 'secondary' steam turbine what with the exhaust's temperature being a water-heating exchange source
01:21:33 <sim-al2> I think systems like that are already in used in some large power plants and ships
01:22:01 <drac_boy> wouldn't surprise me then in that case
01:22:39 <sim-al2> There certainly were a number of aircraft pistion engines with power-recovery turbines, which recovered energy from the exhaust flow and returned it directly to the crankshaft
01:23:31 <sim-al2> It helped increase the fuel efficency of faster, higher-flying pressurized piston-liners, at the expense of mechanical complexity
01:23:50 <drac_boy> didn't think of it being on planes but I can see why they actually tried it tho
01:24:24 <sim-al2> Direct-drive turbine too, unfortunatly leads to rather low slow-speed efficency
01:24:27 <drac_boy> mind you "expense of mechanical complexity" actually sometimes sums up the very small number of 3-cylinder locomotives in usa, mechanics somewhat hated the center cranks/etc
01:24:47 <drac_boy> at least a few of these not surprisingly led a rather good life of 10+ years of express/freight services
01:24:51 <Supercheese> hot dang that coupling rod is enormous
01:26:04 <drac_boy> one particular small fleet built by alco as I recall...when the emd F units replaced them on mainline they found a nice new home for a while working hump yards with switcher footboards fitted (they slipped less at low speed shoving the long cuts over for one thing)
01:26:15 <sim-al2> The problem with the aircraft engines was that turbines required far less inspection, and so once the more efficent turbo-fans arrived, all piston liners and even the turboprops were doomed
01:26:57 <drac_boy> and sim-a12 you're right about low efficency .. where a big ship can have multi-speed turbines aboard, a locomotive only has space for one or two turbine gears so it was always a "big compromise" all the time
01:27:10 <drac_boy> the prr S2 in that case was geared to whip 100mph express trains
01:27:50 <sim-al2> I think it had light-weight rods though
01:29:13 <drac_boy> I imagine the S2 never got bumped down to local trains due to questionable fuel consumptions ... compared to the T1 (a conventional duplex-drive layout) which was supposed to be built only for express trains but only a short time later got knocked down to slow local trains which didn't help its eventual full scrappages
01:29:51 <sim-al2> Local trains would never get something so nice, I'm sure the PRR had clapped out 4-6-0s for that until the end
01:30:31 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the funny thing is that a lot of the local trains on PRR were often happy with diesel-bumped K* units which made more sense for the light consist weight at low speeds
01:30:57 <sim-al2> Oh, older pacific makes sense too
01:31:07 <drac_boy> I know some photos that shows a K4 with just 1 to 3 heavyweight coaches on its tail and with the 40mph or so speed the fireman never really noticed much work
01:32:37 <drac_boy> in my opinion the K4 was a rather good example of "just design it for best efficency and forget silly bells and whistles!" line of thinking
01:32:51 <sim-al2> I suppose the PRR could get away with that because the big city commuter trains were mostly electrified
01:33:43 <drac_boy> one funny little tidbit related to that..when france ordered some of their early mallet locomotives they actually bought it from usa instead as to avoid the usual french way of always wanting to complicate things with strange contracptions
01:39:11 <drac_boy> sim-a12 another thing PRR somewhat made 'famous' with was the high-wheeling E6's .. once again it was just a simple straight 4-4-2 layout but heh .. they sure could move a bunch of coaches really fast
01:39:40 <drac_boy> naturally the K4 replaced them due to terrain and/or even-heavier (double E6's was a bit expensive naturally) trains
01:40:56 <drac_boy> doesn't help that a single E6 made itself famous for running too fast with a special consist :)
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01:41:42 <drac_boy> heh that L5 somewhat looks a bit funny .. but probably can see why it was built :)
01:45:08 <drac_boy> of course uk did have their own atlantics too, only in a few instances they were a bit less sure-footed on hilly routes that was then worked by 3-axle powers instead
02:13:19 <supermop> i guess i should 'blind' my path signals with block signals just ahead of junctions where i dont want a conflicting move to be reserved way in advance
02:29:02 <drac_boy> anyway going upstairs soon so you two have fun tonight one way or another :)
02:29:11 <drac_boy> oh and you too mr.bigcheese heh ;)
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04:39:11 <Flygon> Those K4 photos from sim-al2
04:39:23 <Flygon> I gotta rummage some old VR (Victoria) photos
04:39:48 <Flygon> Basically, there was an A2-class series locomotive, originating from the late 1890s, and lasted 60-70 years...
04:39:59 <Flygon> They were virtually unrecognizable by retirement
04:40:08 <Flygon> They got the shit upgraded out of them
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04:43:16 <Flygon> It even LOOKS remarkably more modern, despite being classed as the same loco type :D
04:45:25 <sim-al2> Yeah, they started streamlining everything, but it's much harder to maintain a locomotive with all that stuff to remove and put back every time
04:46:31 <Flygon> Was comparing a loco we designed and built in the 1890s (Victoria, Australia), and what it ended up as by the 1960s
04:47:06 <sim-al2> Wow those are some big smoke deflectors
04:47:44 <Flygon> I promise we weren't compensating for something
04:47:49 <Flygon> We had the H-Class to do that for us
04:48:24 <sim-al2> Cylinders are rather different too
04:48:35 <Flygon> It's amazing how much a single machine can evolve
04:48:51 <sim-al2> So these are different batches, correct?
04:49:02 <Flygon> I mean, they're clearly not the exact same loco (diff numbers), but they would've gone through the same upgrades
04:49:17 <Flygon> iirc, most of the A2s were built from the 1890s to around 1910
04:49:43 <Flygon> And then got whacked on upgrades that worked on newer locomotives
04:49:58 <sim-al2> Ah ok, I know there's been a few cases where designs are in production so long that the newer ones replace/displace the older ones
04:50:36 <Flygon> Yeah, here, I think the idea was "Make a new design based off an old design, and also pass on the upgrades that worked on the new design to the old design
04:51:17 <Flygon> Though, we did have a few long runners that kept being manufactured for so long as to actually have different designs depending on the year
04:51:40 <Flygon> The K-Class, specifically, comes to mind (though, older ones got upgraded to the same spec)
04:53:19 <sim-al2> wow, talk about convergant designs
04:58:20 <Flygon> The J-Class is basically a K-Class
04:58:28 <Flygon> But gauge convertable... and with a few other minor upgrades
04:58:36 <Flygon> The VR were very very conservative designers
04:58:40 <sim-al2> Oh, that explains a lot
04:59:01 <sim-al2> Those smoke deflectors look very European though
04:59:06 <Flygon> Their most non-conservative designs that come to mind would be the S-Class and the H-Class
04:59:16 <Flygon> Yeah, we stole the idea from the Germans
04:59:28 <Flygon> No other Australian railway (apart from SAR... long story there)
04:59:35 <Flygon> Er, no other Aussie railway really used them
05:00:05 <Flygon> New South Welsh stuff always looked distinctly more British. VR took more insight from the Germans and Americans.
05:00:51 <sim-al2> It seems most American locomotives lacked them, apart from experiments, but many continental Europe types, especailly anything that might ever haul passengers had them
05:02:51 <Flygon> Please excuse the minor delays
05:03:35 <sim-al2> It looks like the S-class lacked them, at least in the wikipedia pictures
05:04:20 <Flygon> Uuh, naked S-Class. I forgot if the shell-less S-Class had deflectors
05:04:50 <Flygon> Yeah, you're right. They didn't have smoke deflectors
05:05:31 <Flygon> They must've relied on the Streamliner setup to do all the work. They never ran without the shell unless they did freight (obviously, not a good task for a fast express loco... but, erm. Certain difficulties happened in the 40s x.x)
05:05:49 <sim-al2> I can't but notice how the recycling of the class names seems sometimes natural, and sometimes very odd
05:06:18 <Flygon> It's annoying, too, when some were recycled very close to eachother
05:06:26 <Flygon> Or they recycled the same TYPE of loco
05:06:35 <sim-al2> H-class vs H-class, lol
05:06:48 <Flygon> (eg. R-Class Steam Loco becomes... R-Class Steam Loco. Instead of H Steam to H Diesel)
05:07:03 <Flygon> The H-Class Diesel is just a T but with more weight
05:07:09 <Flygon> Only really suppose to shunt
05:07:32 <Flygon> Heh... the T-Class locomotive, itself, is just a ridiculously long runner
05:07:34 <sim-al2> Yeah, I guess it reallys stands for "Heavy", but the S-class diesel was used on the same trains as the steamer...
05:07:52 <Flygon> They've been running for almost 65 years, continuously... and have the redesigns to suit
05:08:03 <Flygon> The S-Class Diesel is... a bit of a fiasco
05:08:12 <Flygon> They're neat, but they're really underpowered
05:08:20 <Flygon> And lack the top speed...
05:08:35 <Flygon> And the fact that their introduction 100% killed off ALL the S-Class Steamers left a lot of people bitter
05:08:43 <sim-al2> 1957 though, there wasn't a lot of options for more power
05:08:51 <Flygon> (yes, the steamers got scrapped. It's a miracle we kept the sole H-Class)
05:09:37 <Flygon> Well, the issue is more... they didn't really leave much room for adding additional power without breaking the 'intended' streamliner setup
05:09:41 <sim-al2> The SD24 with 2400hp wasn't introduced until mid-1958
05:10:28 <sim-al2> I really like the B-class for whatever reason, it looks very nice
05:10:28 <Flygon> This isn't to say the S-Class and derivatives (the B, A, and X come to mind. The A still in active usage by V/Line, VR's successor) haven't had a fantastic service life
05:10:33 <Flygon> They're just... not as spectacular
05:11:06 <sim-al2> Isn't the last A in VR service just a standby now? The N's seem to have replaced them completely
05:11:54 <Flygon> They're technically 'just' standby
05:11:55 <sim-al2> The early T-class is basically a standard EMD G8 export, the later ones however are very different...
05:12:05 <Flygon> The reality is, V/Line is so ridiculously stretched for resouces
05:12:39 <sim-al2> Oh yeah, V/Lines passenger coaches seem very... haphazard
05:12:54 <Flygon> Some of their most recent work has involved towing VLocity DMUs due to the recent wheel wear and LX issues... which're...
05:13:18 <Flygon> In part because suspected corruption by Metro (a separate rail operator)
05:15:45 <Flygon> They... had a fun time fitting it into the loading gauge. And it was around 24 tonnes an axle, iirc. Which in the 1930s, was... erm, a very tough ask for a lot of VR's lines.
05:16:40 <sim-al2> Heck, the Europeans today often don't allow 24 tonne axle weights
05:16:42 <Flygon> Still, it was Australia's most powerful (non-articulated) loco til 1995 :D
05:17:30 <Flygon> Yeah, a lot of lines here still don't handle over 21 tonnes regulary
05:17:54 <sim-al2> Didn't Connex get kicked off the suburban lines for having a lot of internal problems?
05:17:54 <Flygon> I suspect you could get away with running Harry for the occassional tour, tho. If anyone had the $$$ to get him working
05:18:09 <Flygon> I just want him to get running so him and a VLocity can have a race :D:D
05:18:25 <Flygon> The French company so abysmal, even the French hate them
05:18:55 <Flygon> Yeah, Connex were just... bad
05:18:59 <sim-al2> lol that's a great sign :D
05:19:06 <Flygon> But their replacement (Metro), is just... well
05:19:09 <Flygon> Lemme dig up a few reports
05:19:20 <Flygon> But they're LONG reads, so best save them for future reading
05:20:33 <Flygon> This is, to use the most eloquent language I can use to describe how incredibly stupid/bad this situation is with Metro atm
05:21:14 <Flygon> The articles show quite clearly what can happen when railway corruption and greed take priority over basic safety
05:21:21 <Flygon> It's a miracle we haven't had a Granville yet
05:21:37 <sim-al2> >This may result in shorter trains
05:21:37 <sim-al2> (eg, 3 car vlocity) not being detected.
05:22:29 <Flygon> Metro's maintainence on LX equipment is baaad
05:22:41 <Flygon> A fair chunk dates back to the 50s-70s
05:22:59 <Flygon> A lot of other rail equipment (including LX, probably) dates back to the 1930s
05:23:17 <Flygon> Until recently, we also had a fair few pre-1900s mechanical interlocks being used, too
05:23:56 <Flygon> It sounds like a joke from The Simpsons...
05:24:22 <sim-al2> So the operating company is also responsible for maintenance? I thought the tracks would be state-owned too
05:25:08 <Flygon> Maintainence has also been leased out
05:25:19 <Flygon> The idea is that we don't have to pay for track they're using
05:25:27 <Flygon> The reality is that they're letting the track turn to shit
05:25:56 <Flygon> We've come a long way down since the 20s-40s VR glory days
05:26:05 <sim-al2> I mean, those statements are really alarming. Not being able to detect a three-car train is ludicrious
05:26:08 <Flygon> (even if the 40s meant VR stock was getting the hell flogged out of it...)
05:27:35 <Flygon> (tho, 40s war freight did also mean that Heavy Harry pulled ludicriously heavy amounts of freight, in part, because the workers wanted to see just WHAT it could do. IIRC, it hauled around 3x it's intended maximum tonnage without really sweating a bit... I'd need to grab the actual numbers, though)
05:28:47 <sim-al2> TBH, I don't really understand the big move towards operating companies. We have some here too, where the transit agency still owns everything, but the equipment is operated by some company
05:29:38 <Flygon> It's a political thing
05:29:51 <Flygon> IF something goes wrong, the Government blames the private company
05:29:57 <Flygon> And then doesn't fix the issue
05:30:22 <Flygon> Compared to, if, say, a Government owned company stuffs up
05:30:32 <Flygon> And the party suddenly risks losing the next election
05:30:40 <Flygon> In reality, the public isn't that stupid.
05:30:49 <sim-al2> The Melbourne system seems to be rather important to regional transport though, something going bad could have dire consequences
05:31:06 <Flygon> It would. Hence my references to Granville. :(
05:31:33 <Flygon> The VLocity wheel wear incidents have come close to causing an incident to happen @ over 150km/h...
05:31:48 <Flygon> But it's not V/Line I worry about, so much as Metro
05:32:02 <Flygon> V/Line at least give enough of a damn to pull over half their fleet out for the sake of safety
05:32:24 <Flygon> Metro keeps having derailments and what must be the divine intervention of god preventing a head-on collision
05:32:48 <Flygon> Now, I'm not a religious man. But the fact we haven't had a head-on yet is statistically baffling/amazing.
05:34:22 <Flygon> We're heading to the same situation as the UK's current problems with franchising out rail
05:34:47 <Flygon> It was cheaper to just pay a supposedly 'bloated' Gov't owned corporation to manage the railways
05:37:26 <Flygon> V/Line's own network maintainence is far better...
05:37:38 <Flygon> The wheel wear, is... a particular case, though
05:38:21 <Flygon> tl;dr: Sharp curves on new part of the network. Most trains no longer using Metro's network. V/Line's INCREDIBLY averse to using grease pots to alleviate sharp curve wear, and since the trains no longer pick up grease from Metro grease pots?...
05:41:28 <sim-al2> Hmm, why wouldn't they use lubricators?
05:41:50 <Flygon> V/Line's budget consists of empty air
05:42:11 <sim-al2> That seems rather backwards, considering how much wear will be inflicted over time
05:42:12 <Flygon> So their foremost concern is keeping the VLocity DMUs operating as well as possible
05:42:26 <Flygon> (they're some of the most complicated DMUs on Earth... and some of the most overpowered)
05:42:37 <sim-al2> Not to mention the noise
05:42:42 <Flygon> Well, the prevailing theory is that it's INTENTIONAL on the Government's behalf
05:42:52 <Flygon> So they can have an excuse to flog V/Line to Metro
05:43:05 <Flygon> A lot of the public suspects there's a lot of corruption and bribery going on
05:43:24 <sim-al2> Well, overpowered is relative, there's some out there that are more powerful, but that's because they are heavier and/or pull trailers
05:43:28 <Flygon> And not the 'good' sort of Japanese bribary >_>
05:44:08 <Flygon> Well, keeping in mind, the VLos are specced to accelerate @ 0.9m/s/s. And are likely written as 'weaker' than they can actually go, on even that respect
05:44:23 <Flygon> But, on paper alone, they actually accerate faster than a lot of suburban EMUs @_@
05:44:41 <Flygon> And, given some alleged tests have pegged them going 220-230km/h...
05:45:04 <sim-al2> Lots of the new European designs try for 1m/s^2, but yeah, most older designs would love to hit that
05:45:07 <Flygon> (the transmission, however, is only built for 200. And I can't fully confirm if the tests for post-200 did actually happen or not)
05:45:24 <Flygon> I do ask, given EU is very very electrified
05:45:48 <sim-al2> Well, if it's actually rated for 200km/h, they'll probably do overspeed tests to ensure safety margin
05:46:14 <sim-al2> Here in the US, one of the testing requirements is running at 10% above top speed without any problems
05:46:31 <Flygon> Yep. That collorates well with the 220-230 speeds reported
05:46:38 <sim-al2> Que Dash 9s rolling around the Colorado test track at 90mph
05:46:58 <Flygon> (they, in service, only hit 160km/h officially. In reality, they are allowed to hit 177km/h)
05:47:38 <Flygon> If they could hit 90mph in service, they'd be pretty neat pax locos
05:48:09 <Flygon> Assuming the acceleration curve allows it
05:48:10 <sim-al2> Yeah, for whatever reason the Dash 9 is still 70mph rated, but the AC derivative is 75mph
05:48:50 <sim-al2> Yeah, Dash 9 is pretty damn heavy, the P40DC/P42DC are basically Dash 9's in a lighter body
05:49:09 <Flygon> Yeah, no V/Line pax locos are really designed to go over 115km/h. The A-Class are geared for 133km/h... but they don't hit that.
05:49:29 <sim-al2> Still heavy by say, Euro standards, but definetly nicer on the track than a heavy freight locomotive
05:49:32 <Flygon> (which, due to us FORMERLY using miles, unsurprisingly, 115km/h rounds very neatly to 70mph)
05:50:18 <Flygon> It seems a few Dash 9s run in Australia.
05:50:22 <Flygon> Must be for Interstate
05:50:32 <sim-al2> The one problem with acceleration rates is that it's pretty easy to hit a high rate at low speed
05:50:52 <sim-al2> Like, there subway cars in the 1910's capable of 2.5mph/s
05:51:15 <sim-al2> Nevermind that they can barely reach 50mph, thanks to a lack of weakfields
05:51:43 <Flygon> Here... er, the history with EMU speeds is actually a bit confusing
05:51:45 <sim-al2> While the orginal Shinkansen, with all axles powered, was rated for like 1km/h/s
05:52:05 <Flygon> Officially, they were all rated for 115km/h with post-50s models
05:52:15 <sim-al2> (later 1.3, they seemed to have tuned it up during the 90's)
05:52:28 <Flygon> The reality is, most pre-50s sets only designed for 80 tended to blow up to 120km/h due to the lack of actual speed recorders
05:52:51 <Flygon> I... think. Take it with a grain of salt.
05:53:04 <Flygon> Yeah, the 0-Class Shinkansen accelerated very slowly
05:53:18 <Flygon> It's very very weird seeing the 0-Class Shinkansen
05:53:26 <Flygon> Back then, they were very state of the line
05:53:53 <Flygon> Nowadays, VLocities practically have all the same capabilities (Bar being a fair bit noiser). And they're seen as ordinary Interurbans.
05:54:13 <Flygon> And accelerate far faster...
05:55:10 <Flygon> It does feel kind of weird to me
05:55:17 <Flygon> Seeing how 'slow' overseas urban EMUs are
05:55:32 <Flygon> For us, 115km/h on a suburban train is a bit slow. We're used to going 160km/h on Diesels :D
05:55:47 <Flygon> But... your networks evolved differently.
05:55:49 <sim-al2> Most of the time, the "slow" ones are used on lines where the stations are very close together
05:55:56 <Flygon> Namely, tighter stations spacing
05:56:09 <Flygon> Whereas, for us, the 'subway' role is filled in by the Trams
05:56:20 <sim-al2> They NYC subway probably has very short station distances compared to even other subway systems
05:56:31 <Flygon> Which, if you compare various specifications... operate in almost the exact same way as- well, yeah, exactly
05:57:21 <sim-al2> Trams used to be pretty common in the big cities around the 1900's, but either they were replaced with elevated or subway systems, or doomed to fade away
05:58:42 <sim-al2> Really, I think only Boston and Chicago followed the route of the heavy-duty tram systems found in Europe, and even then the Chicago systems became electric commuter railorads
05:59:33 <sim-al2> The Boston Green Line seems the closest to what is done with the city trams in the German countries, it even has subway sections downtown
05:59:35 <Flygon> Yeah, Chicago developed a lot like Melbourne with regards to Trams
05:59:53 <Flygon> A LOT of Cablecar lines pre-1910s, even on flat land, because electric traction hadn't caught up
06:00:04 <Flygon> And ludicrously huge networks in the progress
06:00:12 <Flygon> Yeah, no Tramlines here are subway
06:00:59 <Flygon> IT LOOKS LIKE A Z-CLASS
06:01:38 <sim-al2> Oh hey, looks like Melborne stole the PCC too
06:01:56 <Flygon> But it shows the design
06:01:59 <Flygon> Well, not so much stole
06:02:03 <Flygon> As much as half-licenced
06:02:09 <Flygon> Then hybridized with a W-Class
06:02:10 <sim-al2> It's hilarious that the world's tram systems are built on the back of an American design
06:02:13 <Flygon> Then ran 115km/h with it
06:02:40 <Flygon> (they did the test run somepoint in the 1950s because... well, they could)
06:02:46 <sim-al2> Well, the Czechs did literally build many without a license
06:03:03 <Flygon> Ye olde Soviet Union...
06:03:22 <Flygon> Still, they invented 80s video game music in the 30s xP
06:03:41 <sim-al2> Of course, the streetcar systems in the US were pretty much toast by the 70's anyway, and I'm sure the companies didn't even notice the lack of Commie money
06:04:53 <Flygon> Yeah, the dying out in the 50s-70s.... well, sucks
06:05:52 <Flygon> The similarity with 80s computer synths is rawly uncanny
06:06:01 <Flygon> Right down to the waveforms chosen
06:07:17 <sim-al2> Don't worry about the cars, my city stole a few W's back
06:07:32 <Flygon> Technically purchased xP
06:08:06 <sim-al2> Too bad they managed to maintain one badly enough that it caught on fire...
06:08:37 <sim-al2> So for like the last two years, no more trams downtown
06:08:39 <Flygon> What did they do, run it in the wrong notch setting for too long?
06:08:46 <Flygon> It has to be either 50%, or 100% power
06:08:53 <Flygon> Otherwise the resistors grow VERY hot
06:09:02 <Supercheese> Flygon: Hot dang that's some retro-retro stuff
06:09:08 <sim-al2> Only this past spring did they get the stupid fake trolley-buses to replace them
06:09:29 <Flygon> Supercheese: I know, right? It's a shame the Soviet Government of the time decided the programme was unprofitable
06:09:37 <sim-al2> I don't know, they were fine when I rode on them
06:09:47 <Flygon> The idea of a Communist Government scrapping a programme for being unprofitable is... amusing
06:10:21 <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah, it's hard for me to tell without being there. And even then, I'm not a maintainence engineer.
06:10:37 <Flygon> But that's the only thing I can think of that could even cause a fire in ordinary operation
06:10:49 <Flygon> And even then, you'd need to be almost deliberately driving that way
06:11:02 <sim-al2> I don't know, somehow they could install pantographs and enough lights to make it look like a disco ball, but not maintain it
06:11:20 <sim-al2> No, I think it burned up while not in service
06:11:50 <Flygon> Sounds like they tried to do what we did her and fucked the wiring up :(
06:12:01 <Flygon> (we installed panto and additional lighting, too)
06:12:15 <sim-al2> Oh nevermind, it was too different cars about 5 months apart
06:14:13 <sim-al2> Oh god it's going to be FALL before the first five are finally refurbished
06:15:03 <sim-al2> Wait, the webpage hasn't been updated in a year, now I'm confused...
06:15:10 <Flygon> Again, the uncanny resemblance with 80s computer music....
06:15:29 <sim-al2> My city's transit agency is of course, a very competent organization ... not...
06:15:43 <Flygon> sim: I understand fully :(
06:16:05 <Supercheese> so they have triangle & square waves... on paper. Cut out by hand. Hot damn
06:16:51 <Supercheese> They used analog to make digital
06:16:59 <Flygon> I don't think they specifically aimed for either. But they certainly got a very close waveform shape
06:19:33 <Flygon> Including a fair few waveforms that a computer can't actually intentionally generate
06:19:40 <Flygon> But can be played by an optical player
06:19:52 <Flygon> (of course, the waveforms can be represented electronically)
06:20:08 <Flygon> It does feak me out a bit how cramped US subways get x3
06:20:42 <sim-al2> Just old, built to reduce costs, the rolling stock isn't really that big
06:21:17 <sim-al2> The Washington metro system has larger dimensions
06:22:11 <Flygon> Supercheese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIB36ZY0WM The music in this is 100% artificial... this video is a pretty clear reminder that they were trying to make it sound 'organic', not computery... mainly because they, obviously, had no concept of 80s synthesizers xP
06:22:30 <Flygon> The one made in the 70s?
06:22:58 <sim-al2> yeah, I guess the concrete gives it away? :D
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06:25:44 <Flygon> Supercheese: I do note, though. Some 1930s American synths, themselves, were amazingly advanced. And, in theory, could play self-tracking with a modified piano reel type.
06:25:50 <Flygon> As in, fully electronic ones.
06:29:12 <Flygon> Sounds like it came from the 70s or 80s
06:29:21 <Flygon> HOW DO WE FORGET THIS HISTORY? O_O
06:29:57 <sim-al2> It's not pop music, therefore irrelevant?
06:30:44 <Flygon> The entire thing is basically... vacuum tubes upon programmable vacuum tubes
06:31:18 <Flygon> Everything else in the era used tonewheels, and other mechanical components (like those electronic church organs)
06:31:56 <Flygon> But, there you have it. The two biggest lost oppertunities in music synthesis @_@
06:44:31 <Flygon> It's a shame Novacords probably can't be built anew :(
06:49:09 <Flygon> sim-al2: Correction, btw. Seems the A2 came out in the 1900s, not the 1890s
06:49:30 <Flygon> The A2s, themselves, are an upgrade/update of the A's... made in the 1890s xP
07:57:53 <Flygon> You'll never guess what class was intended to replace the other xP
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12:31:48 <V453000> I am making more and more details for my trains but none of them will be visible in openttd resolution :D
12:31:54 <V453000> might want to slow down there
12:31:59 <andythenorth> you will have to switch to trainz
12:32:18 <V453000> will just add fancy pictures to devzone wiki/stuff
12:33:38 <andythenorth> splash screen :P
12:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i always wanted the ability to have a picture in the purchase window
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13:44:14 <argoneus> good morning train friends
13:53:09 <NGC3982> train morning good friends
13:53:34 <Wolf01> morning train friends good
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14:52:51 <Valle> Good afternoon everyone, I'm looking for help with setting up a multiplayer server. I have done this numerous times before but have run out of ideas what the issue could be. OS version: Mac OS X 10.11.3, OpenTTD Version: JGRpp 0.10.1, Router has port forwarding set to 3979 (as set in the openttd.cfg) to the local IP of my Mac, but my game, although advertised online, does not appear in the public server list. Does anyone have an idea what els
14:56:10 <_dp_> does it say "advertising on master server successful" in logs?
14:57:33 <Valle> firewall permission for openttd was granted
14:59:38 <Valle> I think I found the issue, thank you. I had forgotten about the NewGRF limit in multiplayer.
15:00:28 <Valle> Issue resolved, thanks.
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15:45:41 <Wolf01> fuck the system... I'm too stupid to write games :|
16:10:43 * andythenorth has written games
16:10:51 <andythenorth> what level of stupid are we talking? :P
16:11:21 <Wolf01> I can't use unity even with tutorials
16:13:51 <Wolf01> I just don't want to reinvent the wheel with C#
16:14:36 <Wolf01> because it will take ages to do even a simple thing unity can already do
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18:01:18 <Wolf01> bah trainz simulator is boring... it's sitting there downloading and caching stuff for 1 hour
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18:39:41 <andythenorth> “Hot Narrow Horse"
18:48:02 <andythenorth> mostly narrow gauge
18:49:54 <Wolf01> I already saw that in one grf long time ago
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19:09:51 <DexDeadly> Hello, is there a guide for installing OpenTTD on a headless Linux Server 14.10LTS system to use as a dedicated server?
19:10:54 <Milek7> what else you would want?
19:11:37 <glx> and probably manual build so it doesn't require X
19:11:44 <DexDeadly> I've never done so I was looking for a guide
19:21:09 <_dp_> well, it's not a rocket science, at least for me openttd --help was enough for a guide xD
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19:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27510 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2016-02-19 19:45:35 +0100 )
19:45:46 <DorpsGek> frisian: 55 changes by BAJansen
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20:01:52 <Wolf01> good, I was able to load the wagons and move them to a yard... it was cool to understand that there isn't a single station loading area but you have to go exactly on the right point to load stuff
20:03:43 <Wolf01> and the loading areas don't have a name, you must rely only on the switches... which can be far away from the exact point
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20:40:26 <drac_boy> just curious about this but can you hide some buy window texts like the runcost or are these always set to show up all the times no matter what?
20:41:16 <frosch123> you cannot remove stuff
20:43:40 <drac_boy> right, and the added things only can be inserted from the bottom part too - correct?
20:46:05 <frosch123> yes, it's just one text
20:46:16 <frosch123> which people make look like there would be multiple
20:49:35 <drac_boy> I thought that was the case there too, cheers anyhow :)
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21:21:44 <drac_boy> what kind of trains or not sure? :)
21:21:49 <drac_boy> just asking after all heh
21:34:24 <Wolf01> meh... I can't couple the diesel engine, I don't get the part with the brakes, anyone with trainz simulator which can give me a hint?
21:46:23 <drac_boy> hmm say I'm not finding much within uk sources atm but any of you have any thought on if the uic classification B'2' would probably be right for a vehicle thats only powered at one instead of both trucks?
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22:05:53 <drac_boy> heh hm thanks, wanted to put these steam railcars somewhere :)
22:06:00 <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now, be back later on tho
22:07:16 <andythenorth> Wolf01: just make sure you’ve turned off 90º curves :P
22:08:00 <Wolf01> this contraption is complicated ~_~
22:08:17 <NGC3982> < Milek7> what else you would want?
22:08:44 <NGC3982> Using OpenTTD as a dedicated linux server gives the opportunity to customise almost everything in the game.
22:08:48 <Wolf01> I managed to couple the wagons with "patience", but going downhill with dinamyc brake is suicide
22:08:54 <NGC3982> So yes, we want a lot more that -D.
22:12:30 <DexDeadly> i'm wanting to set one up locally to do some testing and playing I'm currently working so if I get a chance to later tonight I'll be attempting to install this into a free linux server vm
22:21:10 <DexDeadly> can I not have my windows machine connect to a linux server?
22:22:08 <NGC3982> Google "How to connect from Windows to Linux using Putty"
22:22:10 <DexDeadly> i got version mismatch but I see why now
22:22:41 <DexDeadly> looks like when I installed on my windows machine I had installed 1.5.3 and when I did apt-get install openttd it installed 1.3.3
22:23:03 <NGC3982> Aptitude is unfortunately not updated properly
22:23:18 <NGC3982> You will need to download the package from the site and install it using dpkg
22:23:30 <Pici> DexDeadly: What distro is that?
22:24:47 <DexDeadly> so how do I do it through a headless linux server
22:27:15 <DexDeadly> yea I downloaded, now to get it over to the vm lol
22:27:45 <Pici> I'd just run wget on the lonk.
22:28:00 <Pici> You might need to run apt-get install -f after installing to grab any missed dependencies.
22:29:41 <DexDeadly> ooh was unaware of that
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continue to next day ⏵
