IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-02-13
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00:11:30 <swiss> is sombody from switzerland?
00:15:01 <Supercheese> No, but Schweitzer is the name of the local ski resort :P
00:17:45 <Supercheese> the anglicization seems to have added the explicit t in front of the z
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08:44:05 <andythenorth> vehicle factory is regrettable
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08:58:49 <andythenorth> irl, vehicle factories are 1) very big 2) very bland
09:00:59 <andythenorth> big is hard to place
09:01:04 <andythenorth> bland is…bland :P
09:01:18 * andythenorth needs a better solution
09:02:44 <andythenorth> I can probably cheat scale somewhat
09:03:18 <Supercheese> Draw cutaway view! Assembly lines, robotic arms, forklifts! :P
09:06:38 <andythenorth> V did that in YETI :)
09:07:40 <andythenorth> but it’s all just brick cuboids :P
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10:30:07 <_johannes> "bool reserve_paths; ///< always reserve paths regardless of signal type."
10:30:13 <_johannes> What does it mean to reserve a path?
10:30:28 <_johannes> Also, what is a PBS signal?
10:36:45 <andythenorth> path based signal
10:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: reserving a path means it is then (almost) guaranteed to be kept free from other trains
10:45:30 <_johannes> andythenorth: ah ok, then it's just a path signal?
10:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "PBS" and "path signal" are the same thing
10:46:23 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: so this can happen regardless of any type of signal, it just means that the tracks is reserved for this specific train?
10:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: i don't know under which condition this flag is set
10:48:25 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: train_cmd.cpp, "do_track_reservation = true;"
10:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: not enough context
10:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why does this matter?
10:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably don't want to reserve paths
10:51:33 <_johannes> I'm just figuring out how it works
10:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: reserving a path is a train saying "i'm coming through here, stay clear!"
10:52:32 <_johannes> for just finding out what path is the best from station a to b, I can not use Train::Tick(), because I guess this will let the train stop if other trains are blocking
10:53:05 <_johannes> but just calling the YAPF/NPF algorithms seems to be too less, I guess?
10:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is pretty much exactly what you want
10:53:54 <_johannes> the YAPF/NPF algorithms can not do things like turning a train around, correct?
10:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but the appropriate wrapper function for that almost definitely already exists
10:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't want to turn the train around
10:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you just want to know what would happen if you turned around
10:54:47 <_johannes> the path algorithms can do this?
10:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you have to call it twice, with opposite starting directions
10:55:39 <_johannes> ok, so then I need to try to turn it around after every step the train made
10:55:57 <_johannes> oh wait, a train is not allowed to regularly turn around?
10:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> turning around can only happen at stations
10:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or in depots, or end of line
10:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder generally ignores the possibility of "end of line"
10:56:42 <_johannes> ok, the path finders will know if a route via depot is good?
10:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> doing that correctly is tricky, because it would need to know the train length, and then go backwards the appropriate amount of steps
10:57:22 <_johannes> ok, for the "end of line" thing, one could just assume that it won't happen in reality...
10:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the pathfinder can handle depots, but they have a pretty large penalty
10:58:03 <_johannes> let me play a game to find that depot thing out
10:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the penalty by default is 5000 (ca. 50 tiles detour)
10:58:43 <michi_cc> _johannes: You probably want to check/use TryPathReserve and/or ChooseTrainTrack
11:00:49 <_johannes> michi_cc: I'd need to understand what ChooseTrainTrack actually does
11:01:10 <_johannes> but it seems unsuited, e.g. as it make the train go to depots if it needs service
11:01:35 <_johannes> or, if paths can not be reversed, ChooseTrainTrack aborts
11:01:54 <_johannes> for getting a nice graph, it should be simulated like our train is the only train on the map
11:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: independent from that, it might be tricky to get the full path out of the pathfinder routines. they are only meant to return the first choice to make, and discard the rest of the calculated path
11:04:13 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: ok, so I'd just need to iterate them?
11:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems like a huge waste of processing power
11:04:53 <_johannes> but doesn't openttd work the same ingame?
11:05:21 <michi_cc> _johannes: Then I don't think messing around with path reservations is what you want. YAPF will have the complete path to the target internally, so you'd want to directly hook into that.
11:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but by the time the next choice needs to be made, the state of the network likely changed, so you cannot reuse the result anyway
11:05:49 <michi_cc> And before you ask, no, there is no ready-made function for that.
11:06:00 <_johannes> I just wanted to ask that :P
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11:55:08 <sim642> What's the logic for sending PACKET_CLIENT_ACK? I'm trying to make a bot stay connected but can't figure out when the ACK needs to be sent and with what data because packet sniffing the real client shows that it's only being done occasionally.
12:04:37 <sim642> and when sniffing packets and trying to figure out what's going on I found that both wiki pages are outdated
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12:04:47 <sim642> the comments in the source are outdated as well
12:04:56 <sim642> I ended up having to read some of the packet creation code
12:05:20 <Wolf01> you could fix the comments and submit a patch
12:05:34 <sim642> I can't fix the comments if I have no clue what actually happens
12:05:41 <sim642> because the SendAck function has some p->Send_uint8 (my_client->token);
12:05:51 <sim642> there's no mention of a token anywhere I have seen
12:07:53 <sim642> tbh, I don't really care about how exactly the whole frame thing and commands even work
12:08:00 <sim642> but I need the ACK sending to keep my bot connected
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12:23:32 <Wolf01> meh... they changed again firefox... now push notifications let you chose "always" or "not now"... and if I want "only for this session"?
12:25:16 <sim642> Oh I just found out, some server frames send you as a token as well
12:25:25 <sim642> I guess that's what to send back
12:27:34 <sim642> seems to stay connected too if I client ACK every 100 frames
12:31:47 <sim642> still, seems somewhat ridiculous that the only reliable source for the network protocol is the packet creation code and packet sniffing
12:38:31 <sim642> there's still parts I totally didn't figure out though
12:38:46 <Wolf01> maybe nobody knows, and you can be the one which could bring the light
12:39:13 <sim642> the people who designed and implemented it must know how it works
12:39:27 <sim642> although I understand there needn't be many people since it needs to be only done once
12:40:14 <sim642> PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN has some newGRF version uint32 being sent, I wonder where should I get one that'd allow me to connect
12:40:28 <sim642> currently I just took the one my sniffed client used
12:42:50 <Wolf01> I think you need to emulate the entire game to make it connect
12:46:08 <sim642> not really, simply by always ACKing that I'm up to date with the frame is enough to stay connected
12:46:35 <sim642> also I just ignore the map data it sends and tell the server I got it OK when it ENDs
12:47:32 <Wolf01> the problem it's not what you can ignore, it is what the server wants you to send
12:47:57 <Wolf01> like your list of grfs
12:49:27 <sim642> I should be able to just send back such that it'd be ok
12:52:45 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: right now, I think it's cleaner to add an "is_virtual_train" parameter to TrainController() (or a similar function) instead of copying the function and smash parts out...
12:53:08 <_johannes> do you think this modficiation in the core would be acceptable?
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13:26:54 <sim642> if there's only one spectator client connected the game gets unpaused too?
13:31:25 <Milek7> sim642: why you need to connect to server with dummy client?
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13:40:07 <sim642> Milek7, for a chat bridge
13:40:29 <Milek7> why not simply patch server?
13:43:28 <Milek7> patch server to do chat bridging
13:43:41 <Milek7> propably a lot simpler than writing own client
13:44:40 <sim642> but a lot harder to get anyone running the server to do it
13:45:22 <sim642> not to mention having to implement a whole IRC client in openttd server
13:45:47 <Milek7> write to fifo somewhere
13:46:06 <Milek7> and write some script reading from it and piping into irc client
13:46:08 <sim642> makes no difference at this point since I already have it working
13:50:34 <_dp_> there is admin port for chat
13:50:54 <_dp_> and bunch of libraries that work with it
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13:52:00 <sim642> is there a single line of documentation about it?
13:53:40 <_dp_> but don't think you need docs for admin port protocol, just library
13:55:18 <_dp_> oh, no, it's just usage, not api... but whatever, who needs comments in python :p
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14:46:06 <michi_cc> sim642: <OTTD src>/docs/admin_network.txt
14:51:22 <sim642> so that's something the server admin needs to allow?
15:19:22 <xcy> </> I would be willing to rework the website. And in addition add support for mobile devices.
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15:55:44 <Quatroking> is it possible to change the setting for station size on a running server?
16:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: i don't think that is the right approach
16:06:09 <Milek7> Quatroking: can't be done using console?
16:07:38 <Milek7> propably you must save game, stop server, change it, and load
16:08:07 <Quatroking> Yeah I was hoping to avoid that
16:09:53 <_dp_> usually you can change settings on running server
16:10:19 <Quatroking> I have direct console access if that helps
16:11:39 <_dp_> if you mean ttd console that will do too
16:13:15 <Quatroking> I got the server running right next to me
16:14:05 <_dp_> well, you need ingame console, don't see any other way
16:15:42 <Quatroking> Alright, i set up rcon
16:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the console where you started the server will work
16:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it behaves like the ingame console
16:17:36 <Quatroking> I have no idea what setting to use though
16:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you put the server in the background)
16:18:04 <Quatroking> Nah I got it open in a terminal
16:18:24 <_dp_> oh, wow, it works indeed, didn't know that
16:24:47 <_dp_> there is a bunch of related settings actually
16:25:13 <_dp_> vehicle.max_train_length, gui.station_platlength
16:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think gui settings apply to a server
16:27:42 <_dp_> yeah, sounds likely, but I'm not sure either
16:28:05 <_dp_> I mean it definitely applies to server, but probably not to clients))
16:28:45 <Milek7> gui settings are only revelant on client
16:28:56 <Milek7> and independent from server
16:32:13 <Quatroking> oh wow two of my trains' pathfinding bugged up completely
16:32:23 <Quatroking> they're just riding in circles now
16:47:40 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: what would be an alternative? I could copy ~ 200 lines of code into my graph exporter
16:48:00 <_johannes> this would lead to code duplication :-/
16:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: to me this smells like you have not found the right point to hook into yet.+
16:49:15 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that TrainController and subfunctions do contain many lines of code that I need
16:50:36 <_johannes> or wait, maybe not...
16:53:43 <_johannes> hmm ok I think you're right :D
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17:24:58 <sim642> Something weird happening with my dummy client: sometimes the MAP_DATA it gets has less bytes than it claims to and will get stuck in the whole connection part
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17:50:12 <andythenorth> 32bpp FIRS is it?
17:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can also do 8bpp extra zoom
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17:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or do a "limited 32bpp" where you only use the 8bpp colours plus some antialiasing
17:52:30 <andythenorth> I am waiting for someone to do a fork
17:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that way you can keep the overall style consistent
17:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you "wait" for something in an open source world, it will never happen...
17:53:08 <andythenorth> or the second option also is fine
17:56:18 <luaduck> _dp_: regarding suds, it's extremely fresh and is pretty much a clone of soap at this point in time
18:00:15 <Alberth> imho, there are lots of people more interested than you in 32bpp, andy
18:04:46 <andythenorth> almost everyone is more interested than me :)
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18:28:38 <_johannes> VehicleEnterTile -> should this be called if I just want to get the graph ?
18:29:42 <_johannes> the comment says: "/* Call the landscape function and tell it that the vehicle entered the tile */"
18:30:06 <_johannes> sounds like it's just for graphics?
18:51:44 <_johannes> now I've already copied 300 lines from train_cmd to the graph exporter...
18:52:08 <_johannes> it's a lot of code duplication and I'm not even 100 percent sure if I smashed out anything important...
18:53:21 <_johannes> TrainCheckIfLineEnds, TrainCanLeaveTile, TrainApproachingLineEnd
18:53:37 <_johannes> I'm not sure if this was a good idea...
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19:08:26 <michi_cc> _johannes: I still think that you should look at YAPF only. All the stuff in train_cmd.cpp deals with "physically" moving the train forward, which is exactly what you don't want if your goal is an idealised path disregarding other trains.
19:10:35 <michi_cc> _johannes: YAPF on the other hand will already have a complete node graph back from the destination to the origin in memory at the end of a run, which is just waiting to be plucked. Do YAPF from order to order (with some fudging to deal with non-deterministic conditional orders) and be done with it.
19:11:41 <_johannes> michi_cc: yes, I don't want the "physical" stuff, but there are many things like setting train's bits, handling for 90 degree curves, CheckCompatibleRail, checking if line ends, handling depots....
19:17:16 <michi_cc> But what for? YAPF (or more exactly the track follower) takes care of all that, except checking if a train needs service. YAPF is guaranteed to find a *working* path , which implies all the checks about compatibility and such.
19:18:25 <michi_cc> Using YAPF will fail for stuff like openttdcoopy self-regulating networks, but then you can't represent them as a normal graph anyway.
19:20:48 <_johannes> michi_cc: Ok, I'll look inside and see if it can be used...
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19:27:10 <andythenorth> no good trainsets :(
19:28:01 <Alberth> that includes iron horse? :O
19:28:32 <andythenorth> played the Brit roster so many times
19:28:44 <andythenorth> I need one for arctic and one for tropic
19:30:27 <Alberth> british tropical? lots of old steam engines? :)
19:31:26 <andythenorth> it nearly works tbh
19:31:35 <andythenorth> brit in tropical is ok
19:32:07 <Alberth> arctic.. big power for all that wood?
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19:33:55 <andythenorth> norway, finland, electrics and such
19:35:07 <Alberth> I'd expect steam and diesel rather than electric, with all the snow and frost
19:35:30 * andythenorth should probably research it :)
19:35:32 <andythenorth> Dan had some ideas
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19:44:08 <andythenorth> stupid vehicle plant :)
19:44:45 <Alberth> it's on the nomination to get retired before I could play with it? :)
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19:45:08 <andythenorth> but if I make it realistic, it’s the most boring industry ever, visually
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19:45:28 <andythenorth> unless I draw one huge building, like the stockyard
19:45:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27508 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2016-02-13 19:45:36 +0100 )
19:45:45 <Alberth> draw a car-like building? :p
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> german: 1 change by mini1025
19:46:06 <andythenorth> and some truck/car parking
19:46:18 <andythenorth> but I don’t like those giant one-piece sprites
19:47:43 <Alberth> imho you have enough box-like industries
19:49:08 <andythenorth> all either brick, or company colour
19:49:14 <Alberth> not many huge multi-level boxes though, but it just becomes massive then
19:49:15 <andythenorth> one or two white or grey
19:49:31 <Alberth> hmm, no triangle roofs, have you?
19:50:06 <argoneus> is there going to be a cash shop in ottd
19:50:13 <andythenorth> reused as hardware store, and in CHIPS for station buildings
19:50:24 <andythenorth> considering doing pointy triangle roofs
19:53:36 <Alberth> I like the L-shape (or U-shape)
19:54:15 * andythenorth should use Oz’s resort to replace FIRS hotel :D
19:54:58 <Alberth> I have seen such a resort in ECS?
19:55:20 * andythenorth is running out of industry shapes :)
19:57:07 <Alberth> shapes with different number of levels at different parts of the factory?
19:59:43 <andythenorth> that worked for tyre plant
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20:26:33 <blackzone> Someone to play open ttd Multi-player?
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20:34:25 <blackzone> who wants to play online?
20:37:40 <Supercheese> (or server2, or server3)
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21:05:19 <andythenorth> I think I would add the varying roof heights idea
21:05:32 <Alberth> add some open space at the parking lot?
21:05:56 <Alberth> get rid of the weird blue line between the two buildings at the right?
21:06:23 <Alberth> it looks like they are connect, make the roof gun through as well :)
21:06:46 <Alberth> some different colours of cars could be nice too
21:07:04 <andythenorth> multi-colored cars? :o
21:07:08 <andythenorth> shameful idea :)
21:07:40 <Alberth> rotate the cars 90 degrees? 1 tile of cars between buildings looks weird now, imho
21:07:57 <Alberth> just asif they are stuck between the buildings :)
21:08:24 <andythenorth> I need another 3 or 4 tiles
21:08:25 <Alberth> if you're Henry ford, yes, but then the cars would all be black :p
21:08:34 * andythenorth did consider black cars :)
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21:19:49 <Alberth> previous layout was nicer imho
21:19:55 <andythenorth> there is a problem with the spacing on the roof triangles also
21:21:51 <Alberth> at the tile border, you mean?
21:22:44 <Alberth> there is more wrong, it seems
21:25:43 <andythenorth> it was the shading
21:25:46 <andythenorth> perception problem
21:25:58 <andythenorth> now I need more buildings
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22:21:05 <V453000> tbh andythenorth, that is the ugliest industry I have yet seen from you
22:21:53 <V453000> 1. the two building types do not fit together at all imo, one looks like a mud hut, the other ones more like an administrative building stuff
22:22:05 <V453000> 2. no empty space anywhere, just huge mess
22:22:20 * drac_boy wonders if this is firs?
22:22:41 <V453000> 3. ultra regular grid-like layout = 2x1 white, 2x2 brown, 3x1 cars, repeat layout x2
22:23:19 <V453000> the building sprites alone are nice, but the combination looks almost as a broken grf to me
22:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> those are supposed to be cars?
22:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you need to redraw thode from scratch
22:27:24 <V453000> yeah the cars are another story, those even have bad sprites "P
22:28:17 <andythenorth> those are the same trucks used in about 30% of FIRS, and every CHIPS station
22:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also,you miss a white line on the tile borders
22:28:34 <andythenorth> it’s a HEQS sprite
22:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they don't work in large quanities like this
22:30:34 <Quatroking> So I have two X2001 monorail trains, of which one goes slower than the other
22:30:51 <Quatroking> and I can't figure out why
22:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> loaded? curves? tunnels?
22:31:33 <andythenorth> V453000: you don’t think I should make all FIRS industries look this?
22:31:56 <andythenorth> I was just looking at original TTD sprites, some are just like this, very regular and repetitive
22:32:01 <drac_boy> quatroking, wagon can't run as fast? :)
22:32:08 <Quatroking> I totally forgot about that
22:32:11 <Rubidium> cargo weight multiplier
22:32:26 <drac_boy> tbh why using tropical rail wagons with non-rail locomotive? just wondering
22:32:45 <Quatroking> I liked the look of em
22:33:13 <Quatroking> mass wagon replacement isn't a thing, is it?
22:33:35 <Quatroking> is it in the same menu as regular replacement?
22:35:37 <V453000> yeah andythenorth I think it is just the fact that there is so many. As one they work, but not in arrays
22:35:46 <V453000> perhaps use various trucks? Profit
22:35:56 <drac_boy> quatroking just one little tip tho, don't use it too much with eg ukrs/canset/etc at certain times because theres still no definitive way to "remove" such wagon
22:35:58 <andythenorth> the whole vehicle factory thing bores me
22:36:20 <V453000> I think vehicle factory should be quite modern looking
22:36:21 <drac_boy> other than to eg group all mineral trains in one list category and autoreplace per group (so brakevan>wagon)
22:36:27 <V453000> like aluminium plant or something
22:36:36 <drac_boy> sorry if my wording isn't good but hope you know what I mean
22:36:47 <V453000> yes that one at least looks nice andythenorth "P
22:36:53 <Quatroking> Don't really have too much train newgrf's as far as I'm aware of
22:37:15 <V453000> andythenorth: how about making the big depots have only 1 floor (cut bottom), and wider?
22:37:31 <V453000> I think it would look very 1900ish
22:38:17 <andythenorth> there are 2 problems
22:38:17 <V453000> also, this demonstrates very nicely how uniform browny building industry looks nice when consistent
22:38:47 <andythenorth> 1) industry will look very bland if it is uniform colours and shapes
22:38:56 <andythenorth> 2) industry will look a mess if it is different colours and shapes
22:39:08 <V453000> colours doesnt mean shape isnt interesting
22:39:15 <andythenorth> vehicle plants are the most uninteresting buildings ever
22:40:26 <V453000> well the ENSP/FMSP factory you just linked looks great
22:40:39 <V453000> just a few adjustments and it will be very much like a vehicle plant
22:41:14 <andythenorth> although that Machine Shop is totally stupid
22:41:27 <andythenorth> but I can’t mess with Full FIRS, it’s too complicated
22:41:51 <V453000> isnt the vehicle factory one of machine shop layouts?
22:41:51 <drac_boy> btw quatroking whats a quatro?
22:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need to worry about industries looking similar if they don't appear in the same economy
22:42:24 <Quatroking> hell if I know, ask 10-year-old-me
22:42:33 <V453000> of course, variety helps, but you dont have to have it everywhere
22:43:01 <Quatroking> I used this nick when I was 10 to sign up on lego.com because it sounded cool
22:43:08 <Quatroking> Been using it ever since
22:45:09 <Quatroking> I do like Pizza Quattro though
22:45:18 <drac_boy> hmm you recall around which year that would be re lego.com ?
22:45:53 <Quatroking> They still had the Galidor Quest and Bionicle game up
22:46:32 <drac_boy> ah, I used to be on lego till they started removing a lot of the good classic games :-s
22:46:55 <drac_boy> the pirate themed gold find game was a funny one (done in plain html too)
22:48:29 <andythenorth> V453000: so what are you saying, leave the vehicle factory as is?
22:48:51 <V453000> I would try to make wider, 1-floor variation but k
22:49:03 <Quatroking> good old shockwave player
22:49:20 <Quatroking> probably the first 3d game I played
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22:51:37 <drac_boy> not sure if it still 100% works .. never tried it much for a very long time
22:51:41 <Quatroking> Oh I remember that one
22:52:27 <Quatroking> there's also this puzzle platformer
22:54:48 <andythenorth> also loads of wtf pipes everywher
22:55:13 <V453000> tbh I dont think the ball-like tanks fit to it, something more cyllindrical would be better me thinks
22:55:27 <andythenorth> other thing I have to draw is Pyrite Smelter, which is basically chemical works + metal furnace combined
22:55:33 <andythenorth> loads of potential
22:55:44 <andythenorth> pipes, conveyors, molten metal, smoke of two colours
22:55:52 <drac_boy> quatroking also similar spelling but did you know what a Quadro was? :)
22:56:08 <andythenorth> did my best with tyre plant, but meh to boxes
22:56:27 <Quatroking> Only quadro I know are those ugly scooters and nvidia's workstation cards
22:56:34 <andythenorth> vehicle plant could at least have input cargos shown I guess
22:56:40 <andythenorth> tyres, crates, metal, etc
22:56:44 <andythenorth> it has a lot of potential inputs
22:57:33 <V453000> the varying roof details would be nicer but this is fine
22:57:42 <drac_boy> quatroking heh funny thing re that .. I actually deal with pny cards once in a while :) (lowend models usually mind you)
22:58:49 <Quatroking> hey is it possible to upgrade bridges to newer types?
22:58:54 <andythenorth> I will go back to tyre plant and do better roofs
22:59:02 <Quatroking> right now I'd removing and building new ones over and over
22:59:21 <Quatroking> oh hell i could've just clicked on the bridge
22:59:42 <andythenorth> it took me 8 years to learn that :P
23:01:02 <drac_boy> quatroking heh it didn't take me long to figure that out in the first few games I played with ttdxp (rather than plain ttdx)
23:01:11 <drac_boy> but to our own ways ofc
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23:03:06 <drac_boy> you mind pms quatroking? just wondering
23:03:29 <Quatroking> I didn't discover vehicle replacing up until a year ago btw
23:04:55 <drac_boy> what kind of signals do you usually go with?
23:13:10 <drac_boy> for me: restricted, except for still sometimes using presignal instead on more basic (aka a catchall) junctions
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23:35:27 <drac_boy> quatroking and which of which country you from? canada here
23:37:10 <drac_boy> ahhhh.. NS .. I actually like some of their trains :)
23:37:52 <Quatroking> Well yeah, they're made by Bombardier
23:38:46 <drac_boy> a few of them still running last time I think I checked
23:39:11 <Quatroking> I'm wrong there, not all of them are made by Bombardier
23:39:19 <Quatroking> the ICM is by Talbot
23:39:58 <Quatroking> also they got rid of the gangways :(
23:40:49 <drac_boy> quatroking btw the ICM sorta had a "cousin" here too..one sec...
23:41:59 <drac_boy> and btw the gangway idea on that one was only used just once in trial test but in public service they never bothered MUing at all
23:42:46 <Quatroking> So I just built a basic highway and nearly doubled my yearly road vehicle from $1,600,000 to $2,800,000
23:42:47 <drac_boy> (it was easier (and fuel-cheaper) to just add more intermediate cars after all hence why the last trainsets grew to like 11 or 12 length)
23:43:14 <Quatroking> should've played around with this a lot earlier
23:43:33 <Quatroking> road vehicle income*
23:43:33 <drac_boy> oh and quatroking its not you .. the thick black thing sticking out of the raised roof is for the hot exhausts coming from the turbine gensets located below :)
23:43:55 <Quatroking> That train looks pretty neat
23:44:36 <drac_boy> quatroking yeah it was a pretty much reliable one later on too .. sadly politics killed it off (VIA was basically a gov-"owned" company)
23:45:06 <drac_boy> 99.8+/-% reliability even with snow issues at times and no I'm not making that up
23:46:05 <drac_boy> the funny thing is that the supposed replacement which was a diesel-electric locomotive called LRC (short for Light Rapid Comfort) had many glitches and later was always running without any tilting capacity too
23:46:38 <Quatroking> They recently upgraded some of the NS DD-AR trains
23:46:46 <Quatroking> They look pretty slick
23:47:03 <drac_boy> small footnote: the turbotrain holds rail speed record in canada abit done with a special shortened trainset that had lot of turbine powers aboard if that says anything
23:49:45 <drac_boy> oh and quatroking I only found out about this in a rail book (theres no copy of the photo online sorry) but .. the turbotrain (in canada) actually got involved in quite an accident that a dome-seating photographer was lucky to be in the right place to take a photo ....
23:50:33 <drac_boy> the train smashed through a meat trailer throwing the truck around but the whole thing stayed on the rails .. and after clearing the wrecked gangway doors the train (things were different back then) simply continued at a limited 60kph to the next station
23:56:25 <drac_boy> mind you I'm probably a bit biased but I've always hated any kind of cabover or similar flat-front designs anyhow
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