IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-01-08
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11:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> bwäh... can't launch a kerbal in the command seat :/
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12:26:49 <Taede> launch whilst a kerbal is in command seat, or launch the kerbal that is in the command seat?
12:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> launch as in go to launchpad with a kerbal in the seat
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13:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ha i found a new mode of transportation...
13:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> rolling around with my rocket on minimus via gyro thingies :p
13:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> not very efficient though, as you can't go very fast :p
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13:38:39 <Eddi|zuHause> also, steering is a bitch :p
14:22:05 <V453000> fuck trains, use horses
14:22:45 <Wolf01> even the fastest horse can't reach the speed of 88mph!
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14:36:26 <V453000> slugs can, why could not a horse?
14:41:10 <Wolf01> today i need to murder someone... which one is better, borderlands or skyrim?
14:42:56 <V453000> I didnt play skyrim but I loved the hell out of borderlands and borderlands 2
14:43:47 <V453000> I personally prefer borderlands 2 a lot, it has a lot more fun and INSANE amount of talking that the characters do ... most of which are really fun
14:44:57 <Wolf01> yes, the 2 is the best one so far, the pre-sequel is good to know what happened before but it's not so good as the 2 was
14:47:00 <V453000> I honestly find the pre-sequel very horrible
14:47:11 <V453000> 1. in the beginning it is boring for a LONG time
14:47:38 <V453000> 2. characters are weird, I did not get the feel with any of them, in BL2 I only disliked zero somewhat
14:48:02 <V453000> 3. the humor is just going too repetitive, constant bullying of claptraps for not that much of a reason, ...
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14:48:43 <V453000> there was probably something else but yeah
14:49:28 <V453000> when I bought the pre-sequel, I finished the main story and since there was literally nothing else to do, I just went to play borderlands 2, and had a great time doing so
14:50:17 <V453000> the only complaint I would have about both of them is how hard it is to actually obtain legendary gear
14:50:19 <Wolf01> i'm still searching for those damned vault signs all around
14:50:55 <V453000> even in the last playthrough of BL2, getting legendaries is wtf hard ... and then you discover that you just need to grind crater of badassitude tokens, buy a double penetrating hornet and not give a fuck
14:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my plan for an assembly rover might be getting somewhere...
14:52:41 <Wolf01> lol, honestly i'm right there grinding :D
14:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if the terrain is not too uneven
14:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> now, for getting all the parts to the mun, however...
15:27:22 <argoneus> Wolf01: borderlands 2 is shit
15:27:33 <argoneus> it's super repetitive
15:27:40 <argoneus> it's fine if you like "fetch 10 shit"
15:28:11 <Wolf01> so are almost all other games
15:28:36 <frosch123> what? transport coal from A to B! there is nothing repetitive about that
15:30:04 <argoneus> skyrim at least has some open world content
15:30:14 <argoneus> besides killing 10 things for this one funny pop reference parody guy
15:31:09 <frosch123> isn't "open world" and "content" a contradiction?
15:31:11 <argoneus> Wolf01: most games are shit too
15:31:20 <argoneus> look on steam how often a new game is released
15:31:57 <argoneus> frosch123: what do you mean contradiction?
15:32:05 <argoneus> in skyrim you can do things inbetween questing
15:32:08 <argoneus> in borderlands hardly
15:32:15 <frosch123> "open world" means "make your own content in our sandbox", doesn't it?
15:32:30 <argoneus> "make your own content in our sandbox" is called "sandbox"
15:32:50 <frosch123> and "open world" is not "sandbox"? :p
15:33:41 <Wolf01> skyrim at the point i am it's pretty boring, i have just a bunch of repetitive missions like "kill that bear in the cave" or "there's an evil awakened in the crypt under my bedroom"
15:33:43 <frosch123> true, better make a repesentative analysis of at least 90% of released games :)
15:33:55 <argoneus> Wolf01: then you won't like borderlands
15:34:09 <argoneus> the whole game is like that
15:34:28 <Wolf01> i played all the 3 borderlands and enjoyed them
15:34:36 <argoneus> have you finished them?
15:34:55 <Wolf01> and almost all the side quests too
15:35:16 <argoneus> I can't be bothered when I keep doing the same thing without giving it any thought
15:35:32 <argoneus> borderlands felt like "drive here, kill this funny meme boss which is a reference to some funny thing"
15:35:51 <Wolf01> and 3 times with some characters because i wanted to get them to the higher difficulty level
15:36:31 <argoneus> then again I mostly play multiplayer games only these days
15:36:36 <argoneus> at least every game is different
15:37:08 <argoneus> Wolf01: have you played that.. whatitsface
15:37:10 <argoneus> the steampunk stealth game
15:37:38 <Wolf01> online games aren't repetitive, every time you find another 12 years old who could be your dad
15:37:51 <argoneus> I don't play call of duty so I wouldn't know
15:37:53 <Wolf01> no, i didn't play that
15:40:20 <Wolf01> also borderlands is, it's just a different thing, it's like those charlie hebdo's comics, i don't even find them fun, but i find fun the joan cornellà comics
15:40:34 <argoneus> Wolf01: did you play BL alone or coop?
15:40:43 <V453000> actually many of the missions in borderlands have a lot of plot twists or funny reveals, I dont see why would you complain about the missions there ... :D
15:41:00 <V453000> coop borderlands is one of the best experiences in gaming I ever had
15:41:06 <V453000> solo is still nice for me personally
15:41:12 <argoneus> V453000: "plot twist"?
15:41:22 <argoneus> I don't remember any from playing halfway through BL2
15:41:27 <argoneus> actually, I don't even remember there being a story
15:41:29 <V453000> "go do shit" and in the middle of the mission it turns on its head completely
15:41:38 <argoneus> I know there was a story
15:41:41 <V453000> there is a story and it is very good actually
15:41:45 <argoneus> but I can't remember it for the life of me
15:41:49 <V453000> side missions are also a huge source of fun
15:42:07 <argoneus> I guess singleplayer RPGs just aren't my gener
15:42:30 <Wolf01> so why do you like skyrim?
15:43:17 <Wolf01> which has the most deep story of "side with one faction or the other and kill a dragon"?
15:43:28 <argoneus> I never finished the skyrim story
15:43:33 <argoneus> it didn't feel interesting
15:43:40 <argoneus> I was mostly fooling around doing dark brotherhood stuff and shit
15:43:56 <argoneus> or doing stealth playthroughs
15:44:29 <argoneus> I didn't even play it for more than 20 hours keep in mind
15:44:48 <argoneus> as I said, singleplayer RPGs aren't my thing :P
15:45:04 <argoneus> too tired of ancient evil awakens everywhere
15:45:05 <V453000> judging huge games like skyrim or borderlands after you played 20 games is not very smart
15:45:33 <argoneus> if I thought it had a lot more to offer I wouldn't have stopped
15:45:43 <argoneus> I actually finished fallout 3 and liked it a lot
15:45:43 <Wolf01> the only thing i didn't finish in skyrim was one of the side quests on the dragonborn dlc, because a bug made it stuck to a step which is unrecoverable also with the console (unless i do /resetquests)
15:45:46 <argoneus> then I played fallout new vegas
15:45:48 <argoneus> and quit after an hour
15:45:57 <argoneus> "oh it's the same game but there's a different ancient evil"
15:45:57 <V453000> thought XD so you basically predict how much the game has in it
15:46:23 <argoneus> there's also the part of RPGs I don't like at all
15:46:30 <argoneus> "sorry you haven't grinded enough to kill this guy"
15:46:41 <argoneus> "your weapon's bullets don't do damage because of some arbitrary number to make the game feel worthwhile"
15:47:07 <argoneus> I like games where progress = your skill level
15:47:18 <argoneus> not progress = some number that increases periodically
15:47:24 <argoneus> devil may cry was fun
15:47:59 <V453000> in borderlands you can usually kill higher level enemies, it is just a bit harder, ergo your skill level could come in handy, I do not see a big problem there :)
15:48:18 <V453000> because of course the levels are just arbitrary numbers, you still shoot shit
15:48:26 <argoneus> all you can do is get the right weapon for their armor/health type
15:48:31 <argoneus> and then run around and shoot them without them hitting you
15:49:00 <Wolf01> isn't it in all games?
15:49:11 <V453000> just have it your way
15:49:19 <Wolf01> i'm doing that in factorio too... running around avoiding trains
15:49:20 <argoneus> I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me that borderlands has a deep combat system
15:49:43 <argoneus> it's weapons + grenades + special abilities iirc
15:50:19 <Wolf01> we are not trying to convince you that borderlands is the best game ever, we started like "we played all the three ones and the 2 is our favourite"
15:51:05 <argoneus> it sounded like "you can't judge this huge game after 20 hours"
15:52:13 <V453000> so you think that playing it for 20 hours is enough to know how the mechanics work all in all?
15:52:15 <Wolf01> the same thing i was told when i played the diablo 3 demo, with locked difficulty to normal... i didn't even die once
15:52:30 <V453000> because to me it sounds like you just tried your approach, failed, so you got bored and stopped playing
15:52:30 <Wolf01> it was too easy for me
15:53:05 <argoneus> V453000: what do you mean
15:53:08 <V453000> RPG games in general, like borderlands, D3 or whatever usually do offer various ways of combat/builds/solutions, so playing for 20 hours and discovering them all is highly unlikely
15:53:12 <argoneus> the weakness of every enemy in the game was blatantly obvious
15:53:27 <argoneus> and if my character's build is weak against another I just need to compensate with something else
15:53:32 <argoneus> it's not difficult at all
15:53:53 <V453000> sorry this is not worth my nerves
15:54:05 <argoneus> I enjoyed divinity original sin a lot
15:54:07 <V453000> everything is obvious to you except you do not have a clue
15:54:10 <argoneus> in that game you actually have to think
15:54:13 <Wolf01> then try to kill voracidous or other huge bosses for the booty, i can't even kill one of them on normal difficulty while being 10 levels more than it
15:54:29 <argoneus> games like baldur's gate in general feel rewarding
15:54:36 <argoneus> every fight is unique
15:54:36 <V453000> voracidous is just wtf.
15:55:00 <V453000> yeah well, I managed to kill terra quite solidly
15:55:29 <Wolf01> all the other plot bosses are pussies, i agree with that
15:55:39 <V453000> everything with grog nozzle gunzerker though ... which is kind of hacky and lame
15:56:06 <V453000> depends how you play, if you play all side missions then I agree that the game is quite easy, to the point where I would really like some difficulty settings to override that
15:56:16 <V453000> but if you go straight in without any side missions then shit is pretty tough
15:57:13 <V453000> again to the point where the enemies can start to be so high level that it simply starts being almost impossible .... where admittedly the arbitrary number of levels is kind of annoying, forcing you to do other missions than you want
15:57:30 <V453000> the difficulty/xp system is one of the weaker parts of the game, definitely
15:57:42 <argoneus> have you guys played dark souls
15:57:42 <Wolf01> but there is nothing more funny of going to kick a boss in the ass with a shotgun which shots swords which explodes in more swords... with "the bee" shield too
15:58:05 <argoneus> that was probably the most fun RPG I've played
15:58:11 <V453000> yeah ... I pesonally hate the bee a lot, but eh :) swordsplosion is fun but the double penetrating hornet just wrecks shit
15:58:12 <Wolf01> no, i usually play games to relax, not to punch holes in the monitors
15:58:23 <argoneus> why would you be angry
15:58:28 <argoneus> every death in dark souls is literally only your fault
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15:58:39 <argoneus> you can beat the game on level 1
15:59:09 <Wolf01> i already fail too much in rl, i expect some satisfaction in games
15:59:26 <Wolf01> if i want to fail i just talk to my dad
15:59:31 <V453000> yeah, absence of levels / less importance = good game. It is not our problem you do not like it :) but it does not make it objectively bad/good
15:59:39 <argoneus> it's not less importance
15:59:42 <argoneus> it just means you will die in one hit
15:59:48 <argoneus> and do jack shit for damage
16:00:16 <argoneus> does borderlands have no hitscan?
16:00:20 <argoneus> can you avoid every single attack if you want to?
16:00:37 <Wolf01> if i want to die in one hit and do a shitload of damage i'll go to play quake 3 with instagib enabled and open maps with no covers
16:00:46 <frosch123> sounds easy, if you only need to "want" it :p
16:00:49 <V453000> not in the way you want, but that is not entirely relevant
16:01:18 <argoneus> in dark souls you are supposed to level normally and even grind to have an easier time with some of the bosses
16:01:25 <argoneus> but a decent player can solo the game on level 1 with a stick
16:01:30 <argoneus> that makes it a good rpg imo
16:01:48 <Wolf01> it works on skyrim/fallout too
16:01:59 <argoneus> I wish skyrim combat wasn't shit
16:02:03 <argoneus> some mods make it bearable
16:02:06 <argoneus> but the vanilla combat is soo bad :(
16:02:09 <Wolf01> in borderlands a bit less, because of the health regen
16:02:34 <Wolf01> eh, i also wanted the mount&blade combat in skyrim
16:05:18 <V453000> m&b was a fucking massacre XD
16:05:29 <V453000> I didnt remain entertained by it for long, but it was quite interesting
16:05:41 <argoneus> I played m&b for hundreds of hours
16:05:47 <argoneus> V453000 why can't you be more like me
16:06:02 <V453000> fuck you thats why? XD
16:06:14 <argoneus> m&b is also the kind of game I like
16:06:20 <argoneus> it's a "RPG" in the sense you have levels
16:06:25 <argoneus> but they don't mean much if you are good at the game
16:06:27 <Wolf01> i'm trying to play the viking conquest campaign, but i'm struggling to advance
16:06:37 <argoneus> Wolf01: what diff settings do you play on?
16:07:52 <Wolf01> i'm not so good at it, that's my problem
16:08:16 <Wolf01> i can't get the right time of attacking and blocking
16:08:36 <Wolf01> and when i have more than 1 enemy attacking me, i'm dead
16:08:44 <argoneus> in m&b you can't really fight 1vX where X>1
16:09:01 <argoneus> they would have to sync their attacks perfectly so you can block at the same time
16:09:14 <argoneus> usually you can only block and hope someone helps you :(
16:10:00 <Wolf01> or get a horse and hope it don't die while you are poking them with a pike from above
16:10:43 <argoneus> do you run any mods?
16:10:57 <argoneus> most mods have spear bracing built in
16:11:02 <argoneus> charging someone with a horse has never been so scary
16:11:13 <argoneus> it's like couched lance but stationary
16:12:42 <V453000> idk I often went against like 100 enemies v 1, cause my squads were generally ultra bad ... riding around them on a horse and killing them one by one with a mace felt ok XD just lengthy
16:13:00 <Wolf01> that's what i usually do
16:13:23 <Wolf01> but i don't have enough money for a horse right now
16:13:35 <argoneus> don't you start with one?
16:13:51 <argoneus> oh wait you're doing the viking thing
16:13:52 <Wolf01> also vikings seem to not like horses
16:13:58 <argoneus> I didn't buy any of the dlcs because what's the point
16:14:35 <V453000> yeah not like 90% of modern games have actual content spread to 666 DLCs
16:15:07 <V453000> ... including borderlands :>
16:15:27 <argoneus> have you even played warband?
16:15:42 <argoneus> there's so many total conversion mods any paid DLC loses its point
16:15:45 <Wolf01> the closest thing to a horse i have is the dog... because they used the skeleton of a horse for the movements and it's funny to see it moving, but also uncomfortable seeing it bending the legs in the wrong way
16:16:02 <argoneus> there's a mod that makes the game into lord of the rings pretty much
16:16:08 <argoneus> why would I pay 15 euro for vikings
16:16:33 <V453000> perhaps there are new mechanics etc? My guess, I did not play it, nor warband
16:16:33 <Wolf01> it's historically accurate
16:16:58 <Wolf01> warband has multiplayer if you want
16:17:12 <argoneus> mods bring new mechanics too
16:17:15 <Wolf01> but the base game is the same as the first one
16:17:18 <argoneus> there's a mod that makes battles look like total war
16:17:23 <argoneus> you click your units and move them to places
16:17:42 <argoneus> python is one hell of a drug
16:18:04 <Wolf01> it's just the army management, you can use it from the viking conquest dlc too
16:18:51 <argoneus> I know you mean the backspace thing
16:18:59 <argoneus> but this literally split your army into squads
16:19:06 <argoneus> and you had the clickable bars from total war
16:19:22 <argoneus> and you could pre-position them before a battle
16:19:31 <argoneus> and put them in formations
16:23:13 <Wolf01> too bad i only have 70 men (and they cost really much, while being almost all young warriors and burglars)
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16:27:34 <Wolf01> and i need 2 more ships too :(
16:27:51 <Wolf01> (no money for them... if i can't even afford a horse)
16:29:36 <M-E> A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!
16:30:03 <Wolf01> i don't have a kingdom too :(
16:31:29 <Wolf01> after boarding my ship (it wasn't even mine) vikings left me on a beach with my ass up and a stick in it... luckily some fishermen found me
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19:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27490 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2016-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 )
19:45:48 <DorpsGek> chinese (simplified): 1 change by siu238X
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23:18:49 <m1cr0man> Does anyone use the finescale, standard guage and 3rd rail track GRF?
23:19:06 <m1cr0man> I want to know why the electric tracks are so much more expensive than usual
23:19:57 <Supercheese> that's not Pikka's finescale track grf, is it?
23:20:17 <m1cr0man> is there an alternative?
23:20:26 <Supercheese> no that's an excellent grf
23:20:36 <Supercheese> what's the problem exactly?
23:20:45 <m1cr0man> Its 7 grand to build 1 tile of track
23:21:21 <m1cr0man> You build like 100 units of track and all of a sudden you wasted your money not building an airfield
23:21:35 <m1cr0man> Does the running costs parameter in the game settings effect grfs?
23:21:36 <Supercheese> have you changed any bases costs via newgrf?
23:21:46 <m1cr0man> i dont even know how
23:23:18 <m1cr0man> is it normal for me to be missing the maglev and monorail tracks too?
23:23:49 <Supercheese> Yes, when using UKRS there are no monorails or maglevs
23:24:03 <m1cr0man> Ok good, not something I broke :P
23:24:39 <Supercheese> well, are all your tracks expensive? or just one type?
23:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> m1cr0man: if you mix multiple sets that modify the same thing, the last one may override settings of the previous one
23:25:05 <m1cr0man> oh im not sure actually supercheese, ill check now
23:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> m1cr0man: try changing the order, and see what happens
23:25:11 <m1cr0man> eddi, ok ill move it to the bottom yeah?
23:26:07 <m1cr0man> that may have fixed it Eddi|zuHause
23:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably not "fixed", just broken in a less obvious way :p
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23:27:13 <m1cr0man> I saved my old load order
23:27:37 <m1cr0man> 1 track now costs 4,830 instead of ~600 like it does when its at the bottom
23:28:15 <Supercheese> it seems one of the other grfs may be influencing base costs
23:28:27 <m1cr0man> yep. checking which one now
23:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they are probably both setting base costs
23:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (otherwise changing order would not change anything)
23:29:22 <Sylf> Japan set 2 had pretty expensive track, I think
23:29:44 <m1cr0man> interesting - its the vactrain set
23:34:26 <m1cr0man> Selected mod is causing the problem: http://u.m1cr0man.com/lZp4 I seem to have 2 versions of the vactrain mod, with the same version, but the GRF ID is different by 1 value (last digit 2->1), could this be a sort of hack or attempt to put a game breaker on bananas?
23:36:25 <m1cr0man> nope! sorry, its the other one causing it
23:36:28 <m1cr0man> this is so confusing
23:41:52 <m1cr0man> In other news, is there an AI that supports these rail types?
23:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what kind of "support" you are after. some AIs might use it, but i don't think there is one specifically designed for this.
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