IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2016-01-05
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08:01:14 <__ln__> ah, -19 degrees and light wind.
08:03:46 <peter1138> a mild 7 degrees celcius and 7 mph winds here.
08:07:45 <Supercheese> 7 degrees is below freezing ;)
08:08:01 <Supercheese> since we for some reason never actually adopted °C
08:08:38 <Supercheese> but we're stuck with it
08:09:16 <__ln__> but the body temperature of a horse is a nice round figure for you
08:10:29 <V453000> Supercheese: the F feel less wtf to me than the metric units like feet etc XD
08:17:18 <Supercheese> all US customary units are weird as shit
08:17:40 <Supercheese> we use the BTU... the *British* therman unit... when even the British don't use it any more!
08:18:25 <Supercheese> and yeah feet and inches such
08:18:34 <Supercheese> we don't have decimal measurements for length
08:18:41 <Supercheese> just 1/2 inch, 3/8, 7/16
08:19:08 <Supercheese> so someone says "9.2 feet" and everybody has no idea how much that is
08:19:34 <Supercheese> somewhere between 9 + 1/8 in and 9 + 1/4 in
08:19:43 <V453000> well at least US education has success with math :P
08:19:47 <Supercheese> which is likely all your measuring device will have
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08:25:44 <__ln__> so we have -2°F here right now
08:27:56 <Supercheese> damn, that's cold
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10:11:50 <planetmaker> I can only offer like -5°C here. And more and more snow as it seems
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10:16:15 <V453000> you should be stoned for daring to bring such low contrubution
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14:55:20 <Belugas> -20 celcius right now. yeah. snow? a bit yeah, but i am not going to dip a ruler on it and see how much we have received. too much for my liking, for sure!
14:56:43 <frosch123> there is not even night frost here
15:26:20 <Taede> must be between 7 and 10 here
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17:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's nice and white here
17:11:50 <Ether_Man> Hi. I've been looking at the gamescript Industry Constructor, which, as I understand it, can be set to focus industries around towns which would make it a bit more natural (can exclude primary ones ofc). But, starting a game with that GS active, still places all industries as normal, and then after a little while, the GS crashes, saying it cannot create the new world because number of industries is supposed to be none. But I cant find any way to completely
17:11:50 <Ether_Man> turn off all industries. Even if I set it to funding only, there's still industries being generated (I have FIRS active as well if that's relevant)
17:17:05 <frosch123> "funding only" should not spawn any industries on game start
17:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> did you check whether the GS actually can handle FIRS?
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17:21:18 <Ether_Man> Hmm... Removed FIRS, it works... Added FIRS again, and now it works... O_o
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18:47:59 <mykoserocin> has anyone encountered GRE keepalive packets looping in lo0 interface when stateful PF enabled (with single pass rule)?
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18:52:51 <mykoserocin> all gre 192.168.0.1 <- 192.168.0.50 NO_TRAFFIC:SINGLE
18:52:51 <mykoserocin> age 00:00:03, expires in 00:00:57, 1:0 pkts, 24:0 bytes, rule 0
18:52:51 <mykoserocin> for some reason when this entry is active GRE packets are forwarded 'as is', instead of being decapsulated first
18:54:01 <mykoserocin> if i add "set skip on gre0" to pf.conf everything works fine, but i want to understand why this happens
19:01:53 <Alberth> sure you're in the right channel?
19:02:14 <mykoserocin> i've thought it's #openbsd
19:02:39 <Alberth> openbsd is also a nice game :p
19:02:58 <mykoserocin> yes, such clean code!
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19:41:54 <Ether_Man> For timetable purposes. Exactly how long does it take to fully unload and load a wagon? Or does that vary for cargo?
19:43:03 <frosch123> the loading speed is newgrf defined
19:44:25 <frosch123> the default for rail wagons is 5 units per 40 ticks
19:46:24 <Ether_Man> So a default passenger wagon would be 320 ticks. How long is that in days? And do all wagons load/unload at the same time (as long as platform is longer ofc) or is it one by one?
19:46:46 <Ether_Man> Or well, a default beginner passenger wagon that is :)
19:47:36 <frosch123> there is a setting to make timetables operate with ticks instead of days
19:48:15 <frosch123> as long as there is sufficient cargo, wagons will load in parallel
19:48:19 <Ether_Man> Prefer smaller numbers so :)
19:49:25 <Ether_Man> Hmm... 4.3 days. So that's 9 days to allow for fully load/unload :/
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20:48:45 <Zuu> I finally pushed my resizable elevators. And fixed a bug that made stairs and elevators cost zero in maintenance. :-) Now I 'only' need to do pathfinding, moving evelator cars and human agents. :-p
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21:12:56 * andythenorth compiles tip anyway
21:49:12 <Ether_Man> Don't suppose anyone know of any nice station designs that's similar to http://i.imgur.com/ZNr0W.png but where the two "inputs" and "outputs" go straight through as well as to the station, and ofc, where trains need to exit the station in either direction as well :/ all my atempts to modify that design ends up in deadlocks >_<
21:50:42 <Ether_Man> I've looked at the openttdcoop advanced building concept images but none of them seem to fit what I'm looking for :/
21:52:43 <Sylf> How many trains per minute? How many platforms? How quickly do the trains load/unload? How quickly do the trains accelerate?
21:53:07 <Sylf> Those are the questions coop builders would ask
21:53:54 <Sylf> Also, must it be terminus?
21:54:16 <Sylf> It needs to be perpendicular to the incoming lines?
21:54:35 <Sylf> Is the station area flat or hilly?
21:55:41 <Ether_Man> And those are questions relevant if I was looking for optimal designs which I'm not. If I was, I would make a SLH and use pretty much any of the station designs on that site
21:58:45 <Ether_Man> or well... Rather, 4 bypass since it's 2 in each direction
22:01:34 <Alberth> I don't understand that
22:02:17 <Alberth> you're talking about terminus or roro?
22:03:01 <frosch123> Sylf: does coop have a client which measures those things? :p
22:08:44 <Ether_Man> Alberth, The concept would work for my purposes, but for 2 lines per direction. And as you say, performance is terrible :)
22:10:43 <Alberth> how much goes to the station?
22:11:15 <Alberth> you could use this as a side line, so most traffic never gets at this junction
22:12:22 <Alberth> don't try to find a single solution, use several useful pieces and put them together
22:15:33 <Ether_Man> Well, most traffic does stop there. And I'm currently using two SLHs and two https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PBS_alternating.png but that takes up a LOT of space, and balances really poorly as it tries to fill up the first before going to the second at all so leading to a lot of congestion at one SLH and none at all at the second one :/
22:16:27 <Alberth> bridges from the station are all outgoing
22:16:44 * andythenorth gets confused by all this stations stuff
22:17:06 <andythenorth> I don’t have any games in years where a basic roro doesn’t solve all capacity issues :P
22:18:19 <Alberth> terminus and roro mostly work evenly well, roro is simpler to set up though
22:21:32 * andythenorth can’t be bothered faffing with bridges for terminus
22:22:06 <andythenorth> and I use mixed train length, a 6 car train can get horribly stuck in a 5 car terminus :)
22:23:58 <Alberth> build all stations for your longest trains :)
22:24:19 <andythenorth> very sensible :)
22:24:49 <andythenorth> “go on eBay, find things you want, but don’t buy them, thereby feeling you have saved money”
22:25:25 <Ether_Man> :/ Guess I can't explain what I'm looking for well enough... Oh well, guess I'll keep experimenting
22:25:38 <andythenorth> never a bad plan ;)
22:28:07 <Alberth> deadlock is simple to fix, just use path signals at the ends, and no other signals
22:29:53 <Ether_Man> Err... no... That does not solve deadlocks at all.
22:34:19 * andythenorth is way behind the times
22:39:51 <Sylf> If you have a working version with 1 each of in/out, you can build the second copy of the same thing next to it :>
22:40:03 <Sylf> It's a valid coop solution
22:42:55 <Alberth> just what I was thinking too, build 1/2 a station for the first pair and 1/2 a station for the second pair of tracks
22:46:17 <Ether_Man> Which is sort of what I have. But as I said before, it balances terribly and just massively overloads the first half and rarely uses the second half.
22:47:50 <Sylf> Add a balancer in front of the station
22:50:41 <Alberth> swap one of the tracks?
22:51:29 <Alberth> I mean, if you have equally many trains from both sides visiting the station, and you have 2x 1/2, how can you have one side filled?
22:52:23 <Ether_Man> Alberth, swapping just reverses the problem. The problem is in the end, that when the trains leave the previous station and thus, selects the track, the station in question has a free platform on the first, and thus, all trains select that track, despiite it being only one platform that is likely to be full when they arrive, and despite the second one having 8 empty platforms.
22:53:03 <Ether_Man> A balancer would help, I guess, but wouldnt that just move the problem closer to the station? Which I guess might help some but :/
22:55:02 <Sylf> Coop doesn't build anything that's perfect either
22:55:55 <Sylf> They just build stuff that should work reasonably well. Then when something isn't working well enough , we fix it
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