IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-11
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01:09:19 * drac_boy pokes sim-a12 with an imperial measured wrench? ;)
01:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how would we know?
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01:30:37 <sim-al2> Ahh. Not imperial units!
01:30:59 <drac_boy> heh I never liked them either :)
01:31:43 <Mazur> Bonaparte styled himself emperor for a while...
01:32:16 <sim-al2> I'm good. Caculations with the old customary units get interesting... I suspect many people haven't used slug units instead of pounds...
01:33:31 <drac_boy> heh well tbh its a bit strange but some of the times when I ask someone (and this place is nowwhere close to any usa borders btw) about litres to kilometer they give me a blank face like they don't even know what thats supposed to mean
01:34:14 <drac_boy> (and on a funny note.. lower mpg in usa is worser but lower l/100km in canada is better ... talk about going opposited)
01:34:53 <drac_boy> mazur at least you hopefully don't have to deal with services/products that comes in half-n-half
01:35:02 <sim-al2> Yeah, distance vs volume usage :)
01:35:15 <drac_boy> there was at least one ford car (I forgot model) that for example had metric at one end and SAE at other end of the one brake cable :-s
01:36:09 <sim-al2> I think lots of GM products went that way too, with some parts still using imperial unit specs and the rest metric
01:37:12 <sim-al2> In theory the government is actual fully metric too, it's just popular culture that never changed over
01:37:44 <Mazur> No, we have no remnants of older measurement systems left over here.
01:38:18 <Mazur> Well, our ships still sail in knots, but that only stands to reason.
01:38:32 <drac_boy> sim-a12 at least there are still a small but decent % of cars in canada that only have km/h alone on the speedometer (these came during the Canadian Auto Pact thats now long been axed basically afaik)
01:38:55 <sim-al2> Oh, I suppose lots of US companies starting packing in liters instead of quarts, slightly smaller volume for the same price
01:39:18 <drac_boy> even the subaru legacy had that for a while in first generation .. then when the pact died you could see the usual mph+kph combo speedometers instead
01:39:49 <sim-al2> Aren't most cars up there marked in both? Many US vehicles have dual markings (although some US pickup trucks don't)
01:40:03 <Mazur> You'll get there, eventually, and then you can start landing lading stuff successfully on Mars, even.
01:40:17 <drac_boy> well during the pact period (or what I can tell from limit of online photos) you could actually get kph-only
01:41:09 <Mazur> I bet in Texas and Alabama there's not a km/h in sight.
01:41:39 <sim-al2> Texas actually has some signs near the border for the cross-border trucks
01:41:46 <drac_boy> and btw I'm not sure re quarts/litres .. but I think it may partially also be to do with cooking (as I can't recall seeing a book that mentioned "1 1/2 quart of milk" but I'll be happy to stand corrected if necessary tho)
01:42:12 <sim-al2> In Alabama, you are lucky if the road is drivable in the first place...
01:43:52 <sim-al2> (redneck sterotypes galore)
01:44:01 <drac_boy> umm I'm just seeing a lot of normal pavements when I look for alabama online? :P
01:44:03 <Mazur> Last 16th century place left on Earth.
01:44:37 <sim-al2> I don't know about 16th century, but they defintely have problems leaving the 20th
01:46:23 <sim-al2> Alabama has some questionable road maintenance, even the interstates tend to be left with no fixes until they just grind the whole thing down and repave
01:46:40 <sim-al2> Mississippi is worse because they never actual fix the road
01:47:32 <drac_boy> hmm sounds like a decent place for non-lowered cars :)
01:48:11 <sim-al2> Yeah, as much as I hate the jacked-up trucks it is somewhat functional, especially if you go on country "maintained" roads
01:48:53 <drac_boy> actually you don't even need it to be jacked up...
01:49:09 <drac_boy> its usually just the same actual clearance unless you go with fancy hummer-like axles :)
01:49:35 <drac_boy> (I dunno of anyone else who make geared tire assembly....unimog maybe but not sure)
01:49:40 <sim-al2> Keeps the body off the ground
01:51:19 <sim-al2> Most of these people don't go off-road anyway, or at best drive through the mud until they get stuck
01:53:01 <sim-al2> Besides fancy off-road axles get really expensive when you could use that money to put on a 4ft fake exhaust stack on your V8 gasoline truck
01:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> my boss drives unimog ralleys
01:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they drive to remote places in like poland or romania, and then go 100km off-road
01:55:30 <sim-al2> Unimogs are nearly non-existant here, people either build custom rigs or buy ex-military trucks
01:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> our military has plenty of unimogs :p
01:55:59 <drac_boy> or just use a decent suv with standard sized tires? (thats what I had anyway..long story with that heh)
01:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the unimog my boss uses is ex-military
01:57:07 <sim-al2> Off-road is really a self-reinforcing hobby here, there's not too many places where a truck or SUV with decent ground clearence can't reach
01:58:31 <sim-al2> Even the worse public roads are at least driveable, with exceptions of course (certain mountain roads, national parks, and all bets are off with the little private access tracks)
02:02:05 <drac_boy> just as long as you don't drive like ace ventura :)
02:03:27 <Mazur> But he parks right in the spot, and without a scratch on his car.
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02:04:38 <drac_boy> mazur well...at least *it* was a small suv built out of real steel (even as its small engine power could make it a little slow at times) ....
02:05:02 <drac_boy> if he had tried the same thing with anything else built in the 90's or later .. it might had completely blow apart early on
02:08:41 <sim-al2> Ah, the old school Land Rover, a vehicle know for its speed and power... 0.o
02:10:52 <drac_boy> well at least the last generation of the old 'series' had an engine option for close to 100hp but ehh yeah :)
02:11:10 <sim-al2> The real question is why they have the monkey with them... I know this is a 90's film but that doesn't really make any sense
02:11:25 <drac_boy> sim-a12 its probably due to ace ventura tbh :)
02:11:54 <drac_boy> he had this purple(ish or was it some strange blue offtone?) muscle car that had a silly little poodle for a ride in many scenes
02:13:49 <drac_boy> either way I'll let you two have some fun.. I'm going off for a bit re some night papers :-s
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16:26:38 <Wolf01> random argument of the day?
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16:28:33 <Wolf01> or just a how difficult could be adding an "autoreplace anything which enters this depot to a new consist, automatically purchasing and selling the rolling stock"?
16:29:15 <Alberth> given newgrf capabilities, non-trivial at least
16:34:54 <Wolf01> i'm trying to figure out how to simulate shunting (i don't really need it to be visible) so you can just configure the orders and send trains to a depot which rebuilds the entire train as autoreplace/autorenew does, and keeping the orders
16:35:59 <Wolf01> the main problem is that if you do it every time you'll waste big money, but with a sort of "cache" of the rolling stock inside the depot it might be cool
16:39:30 <Alberth> but if you rebuild from consist A to B every time in the same depot, wouldn't it stack a lot of "old" A wagons that are never used again?
16:39:44 <Alberth> (and you build B -> A at another depot
16:40:05 <Wolf01> eh that is the problem
16:40:55 <Wolf01> you might need to run a consist just to move the rolling stock from one depot to the other one every now and then
16:45:25 <Wolf01> but this sounds too much "R", so let the game stay as it is and we are all happy
16:55:08 <Alberth> something refit wagons seems like a nicer solution, perhaps
16:56:18 <Wolf01> but the refit doesn't change the wagon, you might need an universal cargo wagon or just refit to the compatible ones, as it works on stations now
16:56:49 <Wolf01> i want to change from hopper to flatbed for example, and the number of wagons too
16:57:43 <Alberth> ah, refit limitations :(
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16:58:53 <Wolf01> also the autoreplace is global, refit at stations is done on stations (so no consist change, just the paper attached to the wagon)
16:59:26 <Alberth> I don't think RL would consider engines to be rolling stock that you have to move, do they? :)
17:00:08 <Alberth> afaik you can also do refit in depot?
17:00:31 <Alberth> never tried it though
17:00:33 <Wolf01> i don't know, never tried
17:01:18 <Wolf01> iirc, some times i've seen unpowered engines attached to another consist just to be moved to a different station
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18:21:04 <V453000> hi humanz, what do I need to install to compile newGRFs for openttd?
18:21:22 <V453000> last time we seemed to have concluded that I dont need vc redistributable
18:23:19 <V453000> I read NML needs python 3.5.1, I installed that
18:23:32 <V453000> I forgot how to install NML though
18:25:48 <Alberth> you said yesterday PLY and Pillow, which sounds about right
18:26:38 <V453000> yes but then somebody said I dont need that :d
18:26:54 <V453000> I tried installing pillow but it didnt find python
18:27:54 <V453000> Windows users can install the windows binary which contains a binary which bundles (most) required libraries.
18:28:24 <V453000> is the zip considered a binary? it only has nmlc in it
18:30:34 <Alberth> windows binary is an exe file, normally
18:30:59 <V453000> readme says run setup.py which I cant see
18:34:16 <Alberth> it's probably safe to ignore the readme
18:34:34 <Alberth> the python.dll is used
18:35:19 <V453000> how do I ... "use" it?
18:35:31 <V453000> clicking stuff aint helping, windoze user is lost
18:35:44 <Alberth> in a command.com shell type "nmlc -h"
18:37:51 <V453000> or do I go to the NML folder?
18:37:54 <Alberth> just like all previous versions of nml
18:38:06 <Alberth> in the nml folder would be a good idea
18:38:08 <V453000> I haz no version of nml here and dont remember how old one did it :P
18:38:34 <V453000> should this NML folder I unpacked the zip to, be the same folder as where NML will be in the end?
18:38:43 <V453000> aka atm it is in C:\NML
18:38:44 <Alberth> although you can probably type "path\to\the\nmlc.exe" -h
18:39:06 <V453000> should it be C:\NML-install and then put the product into C:\NML?
18:39:12 <Alberth> c:\nml\nmlc -h would work probably
18:39:45 <Alberth> I don't think the exe is an install, it's the final product already
18:40:02 <V453000> right that is what I thought
18:40:18 <Alberth> but you can rename the directory to be on the safe side
18:40:54 <Alberth> I have no idea what's packed into the windows distribution :)
18:41:19 <V453000> I guess I need to somehow teach python the nmlc command or something?
18:41:21 <Alberth> nmlc --grf=blah.grf blah.nml
18:41:28 <V453000> or windows cmd to be taught the command?
18:41:52 <V453000> that means the grf needs to be in the same folder as NML, right?
18:42:07 <V453000> cause I am pretty sure that is how my .bat compile things look
18:42:25 <Alberth> you can probably specify a path to nmlc
18:42:38 <Alberth> ie d: cd d:\some\where
18:42:55 <Alberth> c:\nml\nmlc -h should work then
18:43:35 <V453000> I might be doing that already
18:44:21 <Alberth> if that works, you can stick the command in a .bat file
18:44:52 <V453000> spriteset parameter error, so it is compiling, my code just has shit in it
18:44:57 <V453000> thanks :D I cant believe it was this simple
18:45:30 <Alberth> computers are simple-minded creatures, the only problem is knowing how to handle them :p
18:46:05 <Alberth> and great that my 20+years old windows knowledge still works :p
18:48:04 <V453000> well I did remember that I did set it up somehow super simply at work, but all the wiki and readme confused me to hell
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18:53:02 <V453000> frosch yes that is actually where I copied it from :P I just added the path C:\..
18:53:55 <V453000> also it is cute how it reveals that I compiled it at work because that was my windows username there XD at home I only have the first name
18:55:18 <frosch123> V453000: what? your username is not V ?
18:56:02 <frosch123> i thought you were some fancy startup company, no old establishment :p
18:57:08 <V453000> 300 humans company with proper IT stuff
18:57:31 <frosch123> i meant your new company
18:57:33 <Wolf01> the team photo says 10
18:57:43 <frosch123> and btw. there is no such thing as "proper IT stuff"
18:57:57 <V453000> new company is 10 humans yes :)
18:58:10 <V453000> I am not compiling openttd shit at factorio office though ;)
18:58:33 <frosch123> you should write a FFF and only talk about ottd :p
18:59:30 <V453000> yeah I learned to use - in files lately
18:59:43 <V453000> fucking christ need to rename the files then
18:59:54 <Wolf01> uhm, now i'm bored, i just coded the entire xml level loading
19:00:02 <V453000> no I just need to change the identifier
19:00:06 <frosch123> the stuff between " is fine
19:00:32 <frosch123> nml just doesn't know how to subtrract rail1_overlays from GEAR :)
19:00:58 <Wolf01> also shit happens, i hit the credit card limit this month
19:01:42 <V453000> unexpected token ; .............. ;_;
19:02:33 <Wolf01> then don't put ; at end of the lines
19:02:53 <V453000> it just usually is ; missing
19:03:15 <V453000> seriously this can only happen to me
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19:06:38 <frosch123> what does your usage of "sort" look like?
19:06:38 <V453000> the newgrf doesnt even really have anything in it XD
19:07:02 <frosch123> you mean you left [] empty?
19:07:11 <V453000> works now with it commented out
19:07:11 <frosch123> ok, that's it then :)
19:09:01 <frosch123> Alberth: making no-white-space-changes diffs for python code kind of fails :p
19:09:49 <V453000> yay compiled for the first time
19:09:59 <V453000> that sounds very nsfw
19:09:59 <frosch123> i guess making it a NOP is fine, no error
19:11:02 <frosch123> looks like an ios game
19:11:17 <frosch123> (without the automate)
19:12:16 <frosch123> "Makefile.config:10: *** Too many open files. Stop." <- trying to compile nuts :p
19:13:59 <V453000> it is a joke we have with Albert at the office; we enjoy the relation between factorio spirit and us automating anything we can at work
19:14:04 <Alberth> interesting to make last = vehid_list[0] :)
19:14:21 <Alberth> but if an empty list is a proper result, looks ok to me
19:14:49 <frosch123> well, i could change it to len > 1 actually
19:14:52 <frosch123> sorting one vehicle :p
19:15:36 <Alberth> is always trivially correct :)
19:17:17 <frosch123> why are makefiles from coop always completely broken?
19:17:26 <frosch123> Makefile.config including Makefile.config?
19:18:04 <glx> usually copy paste and people not knowing what they are doing ;)
19:20:33 <Alberth> overly generic makefile setups :)
19:21:27 <V453000> oh yeah I need to define at least 1 vehicle to see the track set XD
19:45:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27470 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2015-12-11 19:45:09 +0100 )
19:45:15 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:16 <DorpsGek> turkish - 69 changes by wakeup
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20:55:55 <drac_boy> so..working on firs as usual I assume?
20:56:17 * andythenorth needs more goals
20:57:43 <andythenorth> let’s try 20 goals
20:58:03 <andythenorth> will it work with my savegame? :P
20:58:23 <andythenorth> the setting is baked in
21:07:44 <frosch123> juicy cat - real filtered cat juice
21:13:07 <V453000> trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right?
21:13:17 <V453000> vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
21:13:36 <drac_boy> (then again it almost seem the same styling you'll find on emd gp7 etca when it comes to much later diesels tho)
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21:22:23 <drac_boy> <is just trying to sort out a bit of steam locomotives atm
21:25:50 <Mazur> Are you pulling my plonker?
21:28:23 * drac_boy gives mazur some unplonker?
21:30:02 <Mazur> No? Who's pulling my plonker, then?
21:30:53 <drac_boy> no idea, but not me for sure :)
21:34:57 <Alberth> andythenorth: {BLACK}Processes pyrite ore into metal and chemicals.{}{}Cargo production:{} 4t + 4,000l per 8t delivered this looks somewhat wrong compared to the other strings?
21:35:19 <andythenorth> it does doesn’t it
21:35:24 <andythenorth> I can’t think how to do it better
21:36:07 <Alberth> Cargo production:{} 8 crates per 8,000l petrol delivered{} 8 crates per 8t metal delivered a bit more wordy, like <---
21:36:43 <Alberth> oh, it's the other way around, sorry
21:37:47 <Alberth> still, 4t metal and 4,000l chemicals per 8t pyrite delivered
21:40:13 <andythenorth> working on that industry anyway, by coincidence
21:40:58 <Alberth> what's a supply yard?
21:41:29 <Alberth> ah, delving fools gold :p
21:44:43 <andythenorth> supply yard is just a place to arbitrarily make engineering supplies and so :D
21:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> looks like an ios game <-- then "automate" would be "spend 2$ to make this action instant."
21:59:49 <V453000> guys does my stuff make sense pls_
22:00:01 <V453000> trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right? [21:13] <V453000> vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
22:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, if you add transparent stuff at the bottom and right of the sprite, the anchor shouldn't need changing
22:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (but i haven't touched a sprite in years)
22:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if you add transparent stuff at the top or left, the anchor should be moved
22:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause> if you add transparent stuff to both sides, anchor should be moved by 1/2
22:15:36 <Mazur> If you centered the image, the offset is x: -64, y: -96
22:16:18 <Mazur> (half the additional size.)
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