IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-12-03
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00:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: "Die Stammbesatzung der Orion besteht aus Cliff Allister McLane (Kommandant), Mario de Monti (Armierungsoffizier), Atan Shubashi (Astrogator), Hasso Sigbjörnson (Bordingenieur) und Helga Legrelle (Leutnant für Raumüberwachung). Die Besatzung wird zwangsweise durch einen Sicherheitsoffizier des Galaktischen Sicherheitsdienstes GSD erweitert: Tamara Jagellovsk."
00:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that was also in 1966
00:09:45 <Wolf01> do in zellepins use navy grades or airforce grades?
00:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know any airforce ranks, to be honest, and very little navy ranks
00:18:08 <Wolf01> if it follows the rule, they should use the navy ranks
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00:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, every group can make up their own ranks. civilian aircraft won't use the same ranks as military aircraft
00:24:34 <Eddi|zuHause> likewise, airforce aircraft won't use the same ranks as navy aircraft
00:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (yes, those exist)
00:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course, different countries can use different ranks
00:29:53 <Wolf01> i only knew about the difference from the merchant marine, the navy, and the other forces we have in Italy (which share almost all the grades)
00:33:40 <__ln__> (yes, navy aircraft indeed exist)
00:35:32 <__ln__> for example, Thunderbirds is the flight demonstration squadron of US Airforce, while Blue Angels is the demo squadron of US Navy.
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00:41:42 <drac_boy> hows the sleepy wolf? ;)
00:42:11 <Wolf01> i think i'll go to bed soon
00:47:19 <drac_boy> have a good sleep soon in that case then
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00:58:55 <drac_boy> hows andy doing with his big projects? ;) heh
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13:07:11 <Wolf01> did you see the new technic helicopter?
13:07:26 <andythenorth> buying any of 1H sets?
13:09:09 <Wolf01> ah, i don't know, maybe... for sure i'll buy every set with price high than 100€
13:09:26 <andythenorth> dunno why, I don’t really enjoy them
13:09:37 <andythenorth> I have the crawler in a cupboard at work, unbuilt
13:09:53 <andythenorth> I built the big crane (B model), but don’t like it
13:10:19 <Wolf01> i think it's because when they are off production they will get a bit pricey
13:10:30 <andythenorth> Fear Of Missing Out
13:10:34 <andythenorth> they’re impressive, but they’re usually too big to perform well, and you can’t leave them out around the house
13:10:48 <andythenorth> the Unimog is in my loft, half-disassembled
13:10:56 <andythenorth> Unimog was super disappointing imho
13:12:12 <andythenorth> silly lego, they always break deep-links to their site
13:12:23 <andythenorth> oh yeah, we’ll buy the small Mog :)
13:12:33 <andythenorth> the kids want it
13:13:21 <Wolf01> i was looking for some of its pieces, maybe i'll buy 2 of them just to not have a odd number of pieces
13:14:00 <Wolf01> yes, i'm one of those people
13:14:18 <andythenorth> the curved pieces?
13:14:55 <Wolf01> the blade ones, i think they could be useful in a sort of mecha
13:15:58 <Wolf01> the T pieces are really useful
13:16:05 <peter1138> Silly Lego, using Flash for an image gallery...
13:16:50 <Wolf01> really? i built it but i'm not really satisfied
13:16:58 <andythenorth> kids like it, it’s bouncy
13:17:21 <Wolf01> i'll plan to convert it in a snowmobile
13:17:53 <Wolf01> yes, that one is cool, too bad it have a scale for its own
13:18:04 <peter1138> I... haven't had Lego for years :S
13:18:15 <Wolf01> time to get them again
13:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a large basket full of lego that hasn't been touched for like 10 years
13:19:09 <andythenorth> probably vintage
13:19:16 <andythenorth> send it to peter1138!
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14:22:28 <andythenorth> free plan for open source
14:23:44 <planetmaker> I looked at it some time ago. I was not really convinced that it's better in any way than what we have
14:24:55 <planetmaker> on the contrary. With a bit of work put around the edges of eints it would be a serious competitor
14:30:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: sell eints? o_O
14:30:38 <andythenorth> source of revenue for OpenTTD :P
14:31:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth, people *did* ask us for our previous web translation tool. Not only once
14:33:45 <planetmaker> and eints exists to be better than WT3 :)
14:35:15 <andythenorth> provide hosting, setup credit card billing and deployment automation :P
14:35:21 <andythenorth> make at least $99 / month
14:35:33 <planetmaker> you're the business man
14:35:42 <planetmaker> and you're one of the authors of eints
14:35:46 <andythenorth> I just make the UI
14:35:58 <planetmaker> yeah. That's what the user really cares about :)
14:42:33 <peter1138> Free for open source... yeah, that worked out well with Linux and BitKeeper.
15:44:13 <Wolf01> lalala... working on a picture gallery with the stupid home adsl... lalala
15:57:01 <Wolf01> mmmh images have stupid names, i think is better if i ask the guy to check them before uploading all the shit
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18:55:12 <andythenorth> V453000: wtf, playing?
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18:56:36 <andythenorth> takes too long to get a good map
18:56:48 <andythenorth> too many unfinished newgrfs which will break savegame when I fix them :P
18:57:04 <andythenorth> I’ve painted myself into a corner
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19:45:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27465 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2015-12-03 19:45:08 +0100 )
19:45:14 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:15 <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
20:02:02 <peter1138> i've got, a silver machine
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20:20:35 * andythenorth must draw something
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20:35:56 <andythenorth> circles and squares
20:38:07 <frosch123> make triangle, square and pentagon factories
20:38:29 <frosch123> and then some factories that asemble them to icosahedrons and stuff
20:39:01 <frosch123> at least vehicle grfs will know what to draw :p
20:40:20 <frosch123> oh, you can also add a tertiary industry that takes icosahedrons or dodecahedron and processes them into footballs
20:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you just cut off the corners from the icosahedron
20:40:54 <andythenorth> abstract economy
20:41:00 <andythenorth> I think it’s a valid idea
20:41:06 <andythenorth> I don’t think I’d bother to make it
20:41:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but you can do the same with dodecahedrons
20:41:16 <andythenorth> but definitely interesting gameplay
20:41:47 <andythenorth> it’s better than ‘stuff’ which is a weak joke
20:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that totally escapes my imagination, and i have no physical objects to try that with :p
20:43:55 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a dodecahedron has faces exactly where the icosahedron has edges
20:44:09 <frosch123> a football is the intersection of a dodecahedron and a icosahedron
20:44:18 <frosch123> you can cut off stuff from either of them
20:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense, probably.
20:45:23 <frosch123> i always make that mistake :)
20:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that's an easy to make mistake :p
20:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> not our fault that the english made this horrible translation of the graph theory. :p
20:48:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: hmm, how about mixing colours then?
20:48:57 <frosch123> deliver cyan, magenta and yellow
20:49:08 <frosch123> all ratios are processed
20:49:15 <frosch123> but yuo can get completely different outputs :p
20:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that works as an economy :p
20:56:16 <andythenorth> colours might work
20:56:48 * andythenorth however will be sticking to RL cargos :P
20:56:52 <andythenorth> sorry, no imagination :P
20:56:55 <frosch123> well, is it a reason to increae the number of cargos produced from 2 per industry to 256 per nidustry?
20:57:00 <frosch123> or does it need 16M ?
20:57:57 <andythenorth> please, never increase cargos accepted or produced
20:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and how do you want to transport that stuff?
20:58:23 <frosch123> well, i am sorry, but with 32bit cargo labels we cannot support hdri colour cargos
20:58:29 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have autorefitting wagons with 1 capacity each?
20:58:30 * andythenorth plays a whole other meta-game, making cargo chains fit together
20:58:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: V can render a wagon for each colour
20:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or implement "cargo bay" feature to have multiple cargos per vehicle
20:59:43 <andythenorth> that is a worthy feature
20:59:56 <andythenorth> which I can fake in newgrf for trains and RVs :P
21:00:25 <andythenorth> multi-cargo ships, probably worth it
21:01:49 * andythenorth thinks the game should stop developing though
21:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't that already happen?
21:14:53 <V453000> btw I dont think there is a way to make CC masks use some form of anti-aliasing?
21:15:11 <V453000> because without it they are kind of worthless - except when you use them for full sprite
21:15:31 <frosch123> i wondered about that, but no i did not find a method to make it work
21:15:51 <V453000> I can admit that I am planning to make a NewGRF and I do intend to leave CC masks out
21:16:23 <V453000> which is kind of a shame but...
21:16:54 <frosch123> well, pikka just renders completely separate sprites :p
21:17:16 <frosch123> works as long as the cc remain as they are
21:17:21 <V453000> well pikka probably doesnt have that many sprites
21:17:22 <frosch123> i.e. 16 fixed colours
21:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> can you make the masks 32bpp, and the transparency defines the amount of antialiasing?
21:17:35 <V453000> ah he even has company colours influence it? okay
21:17:56 <V453000> that would be cute Eddi|zuHause but can you? :D
21:18:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you would need 40 to 48 bits
21:18:12 <frosch123> 32 bits for rgba of the underlying colour
21:18:17 <frosch123> 8 bits for blending the cc
21:18:25 <V453000> regardless, I dont want to render every vehicle x16^2 (two company colours, right? :D)
21:18:26 <frosch123> 8 bits for the cc itself
21:18:52 <frosch123> V453000: i never liked 2cc :p
21:18:55 <V453000> lets go 128bpp 64x EZ
21:19:04 <V453000> but with 32bpp just eh...
21:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but sprite+mask is already 40 bits?
21:19:26 <V453000> I might postproduce my 8bpp x1 sprites by pixel pushing to make them work with CC if I feel really fucked in the head
21:19:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, add an alpha channel to the mask :)
21:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so my suggestion would make it 64 bits?
21:19:56 <V453000> but with the amount of sprites I am going to render ... probably not the best idea unless I can do it in some repeatable manner
21:20:13 <frosch123> except that the I part never worked nicecly
21:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: instead of "i", make it greyscale?
21:21:02 <frosch123> V453000: anyway, i prefer a rainbow coloured slug over a company coloured slug any day of the week :)
21:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have potentially 3 greyscale maps for 3 different colours
21:21:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: or remove it entirely?
21:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can change the colour of each face :p
21:23:22 <V453000> haha good point frosch123 but the slugs are actually done by recolour to save sprite count as you might remember :P
21:23:27 <frosch123> but well, starting a new game could be nice :p
21:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that picture has more issues than just the recolouring :p
21:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but the slugs look decent enough
21:25:40 <Flygon> I was half expecting to see a Starbug Train
21:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that thing with the rainbow mohawk?
21:26:08 <frosch123> the most puzzling zbase is how popular it seems to be, compared to noone having drawn the missing gui sprites in the past 3 years
21:26:27 <sim-al2> How many missing sprites are there?
21:26:39 <frosch123> in that screenshot i count 6
21:27:22 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: nyan cat driving a slug?
21:27:43 <V453000> frosch123: people just want MOAR PIXULZ, doesnt matter that it looks shit
21:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i don't see the cat part :p
21:28:09 <frosch123> V453000: i kind of assumed you would give your vehicles some fixed livery choices, which are not single coloured like company colour, but more mad
21:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that does not surprise me at all, considering how many people play patchpacks with obvious and severe bugs that they instantly dismiss
21:28:45 <V453000> sim-al2: for like 2 years already :P but np
21:28:58 <sim-al2> Oh, must have missed them :)
21:29:19 <V453000> frosch123: that is what the heads basically do
21:29:35 <V453000> + WTF CC schemes some bad person helped me get done
21:30:04 <frosch123> well, you could give the middle parts a colour gradient from 1CC to 2CC
21:30:18 <frosch123> and then use grf code to assign random CCs to the parts
21:30:21 <V453000> rendering the 8bpp mask is a bit of a hell
21:30:30 <frosch123> so you get a rainbow slug, but with a gradient
21:30:39 <V453000> making a gradient out of it sounds wtf insane
21:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only a crazy person would do that... oh, wait :p
21:31:17 <V453000> wait when you see my current project Eddi|zuHause
21:31:32 <frosch123> V453000: well, because of the no-blending, you would have to do the gradient by dithering 1cc and 2cc colours
21:31:37 <frosch123> so, uhm, may still look shit :p
21:32:59 <frosch123> i guess we need to add support for drawing 2 independen sprites per vehicle :p
21:33:30 <V453000> I will just use colours to do something more meaningful than showing which player owns the vehicul
21:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so, back to the original suggestion: 32bpp mask, where "b" and "g" get replaced by the currently selected company colour, and just drawn over the sprite?
21:34:09 <V453000> sounds reasonable to me, the unknowledgeable fuck, Eddi|zuHause
21:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and add the possibility of "r" being a 3rd colour for the cargo
21:35:04 <V453000> and R for completely randomized colour of the sprite
21:38:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you forgot the age-degression colour remap
21:38:25 <frosch123> and the dirt overlay
21:38:35 <V453000> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:38:57 <V453000> in that case we need n1 requested feature for nuts
21:39:03 <V453000> slime trails on tracks
21:39:12 <frosch123> or you just draw multiple sprite on top of each other, and scrap remapping
21:39:51 <frosch123> V453000: can slugs operate with catenary?
21:39:58 <V453000> hm, like building layers
21:40:08 <V453000> idk, they might eat it
21:40:17 <V453000> but their tracks dont have catenary, no
21:40:40 <frosch123> V453000: so the slime on the tracks reduced the TE of following non-slug trains?
21:40:47 <V453000> they built upon the technology of magnetic levitation, slime levitation
21:40:50 <frosch123> and the slime on the catenary reduces the power of electric trains?
21:41:05 <V453000> frosch123: there is no TE on maglev, so they just increase speed :P
21:41:07 <frosch123> could be a reason for infra structure sharing then :p
21:41:27 <V453000> nah just getting your network density higher ;P
21:50:10 <V453000> I should go and place some super strong argument to derail the discussion
21:50:45 * andythenorth draws tyre factory
21:50:49 <frosch123> the discussion is already derailed on the second post
21:50:51 <andythenorth> by adapting it from slaughterhouse
21:51:12 <V453000> time for openttd 2.0 thread mk666
21:51:25 <V453000> nice andythenorth, accepts livestock?
21:51:51 * andythenorth considers an ‘illogical’ economy
21:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that discussion is already derailed
21:51:59 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 2.0? o_O
21:52:07 <andythenorth> how about 2.0 instead of 1.6?
21:52:11 <andythenorth> for ‘marketing reasons’ o_O
21:52:26 <V453000> I am all for it andythenorth, finally you could focus on actualy system of the economy instead of inventing names like pyrite or nitrates XD
21:52:35 <Wolf01> i would skip to openttd 10.0
21:53:17 <andythenorth> drawing industries is too easy
21:53:28 <andythenorth> maybe I should stop making vehicle sets
21:53:38 <V453000> jesus andythenorth is pondering shit
21:53:55 <andythenorth> I atually drew stuff
21:53:57 <V453000> all reason goes out of the window for the rest of tonight
21:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: and a sack of rice fell over in china?
21:54:08 <V453000> pics or it didnt happen :P
21:54:24 <V453000> I dont get that Eddi|zuHause
21:55:04 <V453000> andythenorth: I actually started modelling a new train set, you will love it
21:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: in german, that's a stereotypical saying about a non-news.
21:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: something that is so comman, that it would be totally pointless to report about
21:55:31 <andythenorth> V453000: pics or it didn’t happen
21:55:39 <V453000> andythenorth: noez, top secret project
21:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: does it involve biters?
21:56:04 <V453000> but it is very factorio feeling in general
21:56:34 <Wolf01> i ran over 2 biters nests today
21:57:17 <Wolf01> they don't attack you if you run over them
21:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the correct expression is "run them over"
21:58:51 <V453000> I think military shit is banned on bananas Wolf01 :P
21:59:16 <andythenorth> do tyre factories have smoke?
21:59:27 <V453000> everything has smoke else not industrial enough
22:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> chemical smoke is terrible...
22:00:15 <aditsu> hi, what's the expected time for an unused secondary industry to close down?
22:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to have that here
22:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> then the 1990s came
22:00:37 <frosch123> Wolf01: i was disappointed when tanks were added
22:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: 5-ish years
22:01:06 <frosch123> i expected them to be some self-driving one-way weapon, that you mass-produce and then send off to the biters on their own
22:01:18 <frosch123> instead it became a slow vehicle you have to drive yourself
22:01:24 <aditsu> hmm, there's a refinery that has been sitting there for hours :/
22:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: also depends on settings and newgrfs
22:02:22 <Wolf01> i really like them instead, i was disappointed on combat robots because i tought they were like the logistics ones, instead you have to build a shitload of capsules...
22:02:33 <V453000> frosch123: all about that automation :P
22:03:06 <aditsu> Eddi|zuHause: other things have closed down, but this one just won't die :p
22:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: we have the saying "tja" :p
22:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: something like "shit happens" :p
22:04:54 * andythenorth is grateful for faster nmlc
22:05:01 <andythenorth> did I mention that? :P
22:05:18 <V453000> you now compile from 2,3 seconds in 2,25?
22:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: won't be for long until it's too slow for you again :p
22:05:30 <V453000> which makes you not get distracted? :P
22:05:48 <andythenorth> which is ok, as long as you have youtube, or something
22:05:53 <aditsu> oh well, I guess I'll check it again tomorrow
22:08:51 <V453000> does any of you guys have information about xUSSR set causing desyncs?
22:09:10 <V453000> we are having desyncs on our welcome server and I am kind of betting it is because of that
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22:14:57 <frosch123> run the game with -d desync=2
22:15:03 <frosch123> you can even do that in singleplayer
22:15:17 <frosch123> if it reports newgrf cache mismatches, you have found the problem
22:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes xUSSR set has known desync issues
22:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (imho, the game should get fixed)
22:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> callback-dependent caches need to be saved, instead of recalculated on load
22:23:20 <frosch123> as if that would fix it :p
22:23:43 <frosch123> you also have to backup everything when doing command-test runs
22:23:57 <frosch123> when calling callbacks from gui, ...
22:24:04 <V453000> will it allow me to change power on the fly? :D
22:24:15 <frosch123> i don't think hiding the problem from an ottd side fixes it
22:24:33 <frosch123> esp. since it would not even do what the grf author expects
22:24:42 <sim-al2> Did 1.5.3 release today? I see it's on the site but there's no blog message yet
22:25:04 <V453000> then it is a BAD_FEATURE
22:25:06 <frosch123> sim-al2: do you want to write one? :)
22:26:17 <ST2> btw, not sure if the correct place to ask but here it goes: is there a script (or something) to create the windows installer?
22:26:22 <frosch123> V453000: eddi basically suggests to make the error messages black text on black background :p
22:26:47 <frosch123> it may desync less, but actually only hide a problem that shows in other places
22:27:08 <frosch123> we could as well just remove the speed and refit cost callbacks
22:27:16 <frosch123> no desync, and no relevanr gameplay change :p
22:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the game should still avoid desyncing at all costs
22:27:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: we are not php
22:27:41 <frosch123> detect issues, don't obfuscate them
22:27:46 <V453000> newgrf should avoid it as well
22:27:52 <glx> easy, just disable newgrf in multiplayer :)
22:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: you can throw red error windows if that pleases you
22:28:00 <andythenorth> we’re not PHP? :o
22:28:08 <frosch123> yup, it should also terminate the game in singleplayer :p
22:28:25 <V453000> I wouldnt dare to randomize wagon capacity since I was informed that it could cause some bad shit
22:28:34 <V453000> George apparently is aware that his stuff is causing shit
22:28:48 <sim-al2> Frosch: I could but I don't know what to list for the major change :)
22:28:58 <frosch123> sim-al2: there are none
22:29:02 <frosch123> it's the same as rc1
22:29:08 <frosch123> just the "-rc1" removed
22:29:13 <V453000> it is kind of the same as OzTard deliberately sabotaging his graphics, except the users can see through that better
22:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i suppose George just didn't get around to fixing it
22:29:51 <V453000> ... btw can I ask somebody what is the feature actually doing?
22:29:55 <V453000> ok Eddi|zuHause :) sorry
22:30:02 <frosch123> sim-al2: did you see the haiku for 1.5.2? it's about as much as there is to say :)
22:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: : write "all quiet on the western front"
22:30:41 <sim-al2> Yeah, I can't really top a haiku unfortunatly
22:31:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: who do you expect to get that?
22:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine that's rather well known...
22:31:55 <frosch123> sim-al2: try a limerick :p
23:04:06 * andythenorth has made an ugly building
23:06:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd
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23:53:37 *** zeknurn` is now known as zeknurn
continue to next day ⏵
