IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-11-18
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01:02:34 <sim-al2> Just got home, good timing too as the weather's about to get bad
01:03:52 <drac_boy> btw I kinda got a bit buried in other things recently..you recall what we two were talking about yesterday?
01:03:57 <sim-al2> Crazy winds, they say we might get a couple inches of rain
01:04:05 <sim-al2> Uhhh I remember the Feather River Canyon
01:12:47 <sim-al2> Heh, some steam-operated tunnels had a form of supplemental oxygen because the smoke was so bad
01:14:05 <sim-al2> THe Southern Pacific had EMD develop the Tunnel Motors, SD45T and SD40T with a modified radiator section because they had overheating problems on the long drags
01:14:26 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah one of the tunnel in colorado actually had a forced blower assembly at one end to make quicker recycle of the air ... till it was obsoleted by eventual tunnel reconstruction to accept higher doubledeck wagons (which meant they also had better natural ventilation causing the blower to be scrapped)
01:15:06 <sim-al2> In practice, the modified radiators didn't help so much in the tunnels themselves, but they apparently cooled better in the gaps between tunnels which helped reduce the number of engine shutdowns
01:15:20 <drac_boy> sim-a12 don't forget that part of the air intake redesign on the SD40 was because "stubborn" SP bought a few uboats and ran them hard at low speed with no overheat shutdowns .. made emd rethink things :)
01:15:28 <sim-al2> BNSF still has one at the summit of Stevens Pass
01:15:41 <sim-al2> *a blower cooling system for their tunnel
01:16:21 <drac_boy> this was the same SP who was tired of only "1500hp" and went oversea with these massive krauss-maffi diesels ... reliability was a bit of an issue but it did its job in causing the usa locomotives to get more hp if you put it that way :)
01:16:53 <drac_boy> both 4000hp (or at least for the second version) and diesel-hydraulic which were both new concepts to usa at the time as far as I recall
01:17:24 <sim-al2> Yeah, if the SD45 had been later and the mainteance crews slightly more accepting of a non-EMD they might have stuck around for a lot longer
01:18:19 <sim-al2> Diesel hydraulic was practically non-existant, all the diesel locomotives and even their gasoline powered predecessors were electric transmission
01:20:53 <drac_boy> sim-a12 also I forgot where I found it but I still recall from memory that canada for a very short time (specifically in montreal area) had a lone german-designed diesel-hydraulic shunter locomotive (2+crank+2 axle assembly for the siderods .. but I imagine the outter axles had some side play to them due to the curvations tho)
01:21:08 <sim-al2> There were a few switching types, GMD GMDH-1, for example, and the Budd RDCs had a similar twin-engine hydraulic tranmissions setup
01:22:07 <drac_boy> it shows that it wasn't only usa who "borrowed" oversea trains after all tho :)
01:22:37 <drac_boy> oh yeah I almost forgot..there was this trainset that had good service life tho..let me find its name again one sec
01:24:09 <sim-al2> Nah, most countries have done that at some point, and often locomotives are exported to other countries when they get retired, the GEs running in South America
01:25:45 <sim-al2> Looks like a E-unit really, although I see a conductor compartment at the rear
01:26:52 <drac_boy> they're gone now naturally tho (partially because they were sharing VIA rails to get to south ontario and now this kind of traffic isn't there anymore)
01:27:05 <sim-al2> Oh I was thinking of those just now actually, weren't they rather trouble prone?
01:27:56 <sim-al2> I'm sure the earlier German equipment was a lot of fun for the crews used to EMD
01:28:15 <drac_boy> at least even if the roof mismatches a bit it doesn't look too bad
01:28:33 <sim-al2> I think at least one of those F-units had a Cat engine installed too
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01:31:22 <sim-al2> Lol one of the TEE sets is now in the Netherlands
01:36:36 <sim-al2> Also the X2000, and I think a Danish IC3
01:36:48 <drac_boy> even had two diesel locomotives (not sure if they were custom-ordered or non-usa design...they don't look very emd/ge's) for non-wired operations too
01:37:16 <sim-al2> ICE couldn't tilt though, kinda a big deal with the Northeast Corridor
01:37:37 <drac_boy> sim-a12 ah no idea about the ic3 but I think some people called them "kiss" .. as thats what the silly inflated tube looks like when smushed together ;)
01:38:14 <drac_boy> (two trains kissing...now thats a silly thought)
01:38:20 <sim-al2> Those engines were EMD F69PHACs, prototypes with Siemens three-phase AC motors
01:38:40 <drac_boy> F69? no wonder I never heard about that .. I just know of F40 period :)
01:38:46 <sim-al2> The actual nose shape was used in the some of the last production F40PHs for Metra
01:39:16 <drac_boy> I do know tho that there was supposed to be a SD40P .. but something about either 6-axle tracking or the high gravity of water tank inboard caused many derailing issues tho
01:39:21 <sim-al2> Also there was an AC F40PH on Amtrak's roster for several years
01:39:26 <drac_boy> (and thats probably how the F40PH was born from there)
01:39:53 <sim-al2> Partially the big water tanks, partially the abysmal state of basically all non- Santa Fe trackage Amtrak used
01:40:21 <drac_boy> well the F units had the water tank located below chassis (shared with fuel tank) so I suspect thats why they didn't have the issue? I dunno tbh
01:40:24 <sim-al2> Santa Fe actually bought a chunk of them and turned them into regular freight locomotives
01:40:44 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 the ic3 reminds me of another locomotive...
01:41:31 <drac_boy> sweden X995 unoffically called a toaster for its shape right there (why am I not surprised?) .. the aem-7 that resulted wasn't too bad (even if a bit hobbled by useless FRA regulations)
01:41:52 <sim-al2> Yeah, on the SDP40F they tried to put the water above the frame at thre rear, 1350 gal above and 2150 more underneath
01:41:56 <drac_boy> as I recall they should had been able to run just one aem-7 in pushpull mode but fra apparently didn't like that idea so cue two overpowered locomotives per small trainset
01:42:34 <sim-al2> AEM-7 was not much heavier, and faster and more powerful than the Swedish units...
01:43:14 <sim-al2> AEM-7 ran push pull on the Keystone Corridor for many years
01:43:41 <drac_boy> btw not surprisingly I don't need to be told where X996 came from .. anyone who knows europe trains would immedately recognize the inward-slanted windshields ;)
01:44:14 <sim-al2> Although Amtrak tended to not sit passengers in the cabcars at one point
01:44:16 <drac_boy> I'm not sure but I think it pretty much was only NS that had these sort of cab window layout anyhow
01:45:25 <sim-al2> SNCF was the first big user
01:45:40 <sim-al2> That was the French style for years
01:46:09 <drac_boy> and well yeah I know various railroads had them but often when you're asked about roundish nose with extended buffers you usually have to think of NS again (or even 'red arrow' from SBB too)
01:47:36 <drac_boy> although I guess the SBB ones were very pronounced (perhaps to make space for extra electricals without interrupting interior space)
01:49:46 <drac_boy> sim-a12 and if you don't mind I recall another canadian thing that has a bit of NS/japan resemble ..
01:52:17 <drac_boy> although as I recall the corridor was eventually left un-carpeted as they never bothered running a pair together in service at all
01:52:39 <sim-al2> Uh the 789 series and the IC trains were built many years after the Turbotrain
01:52:43 <drac_boy> (probably didn't need to seeing that the set was extended to 9 cars)
01:53:37 <drac_boy> I still remember reading one book about them .. was a weird twist of story .. the amtrak ones were doing well while the canada ones were getting run down but later it was the opposite (in fact the canada ones lasted a lot longer)
01:54:03 <drac_boy> one of the problem naturally was that when the usa ones started getting old noone bothered giving them the extra maintenance they needed
01:54:28 <sim-al2> The Turbotrain adopted that style to allow a passenger walk through door, although the orginal power cars were developed from a diesel unit for the C&O (I think)
01:55:02 <sim-al2> Well the fuel economy (or lack of at partial load) of the turbines was the death blow really
01:55:35 <sim-al2> Same thing with Amtrak's later turbine trains, too much fuel and the last ones had electrical problems that were never solved
01:55:49 <drac_boy> sim-a12 even if the doors were not functional .. lets just say that one train literally struck a meat truck ... ripped some of the corridor door off but everythign stayed on track .. and soon it eventually got up to limited speed (more than 50kph still in fact)
01:56:50 <drac_boy> sim-a12 actually I think the real problem was politics .. they wanted "new unproven" instead of sticking with what worked .. heck look at the LRC which soon had no tilting capacity and later the locomotives themself were so-so
01:57:03 <sim-al2> The NS IC trains have had their doors locked out too, but that was because they weren't useful enough to justify
01:57:40 <sim-al2> At least the LRC engines were fairly reliable, just the tilting mechanism didn't work out as hoped
01:57:51 <drac_boy> at least the LRC coaches still ended up behind F's and F40's .. then politics interrupted things again and told via to order new coaches 0_o
01:58:20 <drac_boy> funny enough one of the major problems with the ex-europe coaches via ordered was....they froze up a lot in winter :->
01:58:32 <sim-al2> If CN could be forced to realign the tracks it wouldn't be that much of a problem
01:58:50 <sim-al2> But too expensive now
01:59:54 <drac_boy> well as I recall the turbotrain had no problem with rather rapdi schedule .. they only didn't like the montreal station which didn't have a straight-y route (cue the passive tilt system rocking passengers like silly)
02:01:41 <drac_boy> heck even the current rebuilt F40PH are still only scheduled for an average of 4.5hr ... the turbotrain used to claim 4hr .. shows that you just have little progress in the grand name of things
02:01:53 <sim-al2> I don't image they did, after all it was just 6-8 (sources are not clear) PT6 turbines, and apparently the hydraulic transmission was actually pretty reliable (once fixed), just the fuel problems
02:02:17 <sim-al2> I imagine the tracks haven't changed in 50 years either
02:02:35 <drac_boy> sim-a12 .. ah the fuel problem was only in the initial years when they found out the obvious problem with plane and trains being different (plane only vibratate for short time on land&takeoff while train always shake all times)
02:02:51 <drac_boy> the simple cure was to eventually replace all copper pipes with rubber hoses to put it that way
02:03:04 <sim-al2> I mean they burn too much, turbines have poor fuel economy at low loads
02:03:45 <drac_boy> and sim-a12 that was why they had a few different small units instead of one or two large units .. so you could only run one single genset one at station or up to all six at track speed
02:04:15 <drac_boy> heck even the UP turbines eventually did have a small diesel genset that was used for low speed shuntings or long idles
02:04:25 <sim-al2> The Jettrain concept had an auxillary diesel engine that provided train power and some propulsion power so that they turbine would only need to run once the train could actually accelerate
02:05:55 <drac_boy> sim-as12 funny thing about turbines tho .. I was reading a recent magazine that listed about the few diesel+turbine units DB used to have..eventually they all had the turbine units removed making them into mostly-conventional locomotives
02:06:52 <drac_boy> first time I thought about such a concept but it seem to make sense .. more hp without too much more axle loading
02:07:25 <sim-al2> Diesel engines didn't have as much power for the weight then, so a booster unit was added
02:09:10 <sim-al2> The funny part is how many different mechanical combinations have been put into that same body design
02:10:36 <drac_boy> sim-a12 about power weight .. funny thing is I have a small hardcover Deltic book (can't find an image of it online now sorry) .. and it talked about how the deltic put down 3000hp in a lower axle loading compared to some of the recent "monsters" that only had <2000hp with a high axle loading
02:12:04 <sim-al2> The Deltic engines are a mechanical mess though, they pretty much doomed the Class 23 because of their failures
02:12:39 <sim-al2> I guess they mean the Class 40, as that had 2000hp and was heavier
02:12:57 <drac_boy> one silly section I recall from that book was that how sometimes a deltic could be unavailable and even another diesel either so they had to use a steam locomotive and by then fireman always had to get a strong pint to drink at the end of the run because of trying to keep up with the deltic timings!
02:13:16 <drac_boy> shows how much the locomotive changed things in a way I guess
02:13:56 <sim-al2> I'd imagine, I can't remember what the rule of thumb is but somewhere above ~2000hp is considered to be too much for one fireman for an extended time
02:14:22 <sim-al2> The big locomotives either carried two (not common) or used a mechanical stoker system
02:14:55 <drac_boy> sim-a12 would you believe that the deltic was supposed to have a "cleaned up" 3-piece windshield among other small subtle cosmetic changes but this was vetoed? :)
02:15:14 <drac_boy> the book had an outline drawing of what it could had looked like
02:15:31 <sim-al2> Like the Class 37 or something else?
02:15:49 <drac_boy> yeah looks a bit like that one .. but curved around the sides
02:16:18 <drac_boy> which of ... I dunno why but I sometimes like the 37 itself a bit .. probably because it doesn't look too chunky for a non-flatcab uk diesel
02:17:35 <drac_boy> sim-a12 some of the early "super" usa steam locomotives really did have two firebox holes ... crazy to think of the crew condition back then
02:17:50 <drac_boy> strokers solved that problem :)
02:19:44 <drac_boy> sim-a12 if you don't mind me mentioning it .. its not exactly my favorite but I do sorta like the class 07 .. nicknamed 'teddy bear' for some reason too as I recall .. too bad that they got built just right at the time the Breech Axe thing happened so talk about having their ground swiped from under them
02:20:04 <drac_boy> still got a few around in preservation last I remember seeing photos
02:21:36 <sim-al2> Yeah the shunters are pretty cool
02:21:53 <drac_boy> sim-a12 we should talk more tomorrow about something randomly rails ... I'm going off for tonight now tho sorry :p
02:21:57 <drac_boy> see you next time ok?
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08:21:32 <Flygon_> I missed drac_boy again?
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11:07:27 <Heftel_K_> Guys! I play on net for company 2 and save game to file. After loading I'm owner of company 1, how to switch my company to 2?
11:22:01 <Wolf01> V453000, the heavy oil colour in pipes bother me, i always mistake it for water
11:23:18 <V453000> what do you suggest! ;D
11:23:36 <Wolf01> make it orange as it is the icon
11:24:49 <Wolf01> ok, the icon is copper
11:24:50 <V453000> lets see what can we do about it :P
11:25:30 <planetmaker> Heftel_K_, use the switch-company cheat. Or open locally a server and join company2 with another openttd instance
11:25:56 <Wolf01> the light oil is gold in both the pipe and the icon, i didn't understand why the heavy oil has different colour :P
11:27:03 <V453000> yeah I know what you mean Wolf01, I will talk to dudes about it :) thanks
11:31:14 <Wolf01> what should i look to?
11:32:51 <V453000> hint, my name is in the item name :P
11:33:17 <Supercheese> ah you got on the backer list
11:33:35 <Supercheese> I only got furnace attendant :P
11:33:43 <Wolf01> ah, yeah, i noticed that more buildings now have bakers names
11:33:47 <V453000> I bought the top tier since I was super interested in the gfx wiki
11:34:06 <Heftel_K_> planetmaker: ty, I didn't know about cheats. Lol.
11:34:08 <V453000> didnt yet know I would contribute ot it one day :P
11:34:29 <Wolf01> i'm furnace attendant too
11:35:06 <Heftel_K_> Never use it for many years.
11:36:31 <V453000> Wolf01: guess you play without Alt mode eh :)
11:37:00 <Wolf01> usually yes, i only use it when i need to find something on chests or a particular factory
11:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Heftel_K_, use the switch-company cheat. Or open locally a server and join company2 with another openttd instance <-- you don't need another instance if you play "local" multiplayer
11:45:07 <Wolf01> bah, i need to get plastic to the other side of the complex
11:47:06 <Wolf01> i think it's time to expand and make dedicated production complexes
11:47:45 <Wolf01> i already have 14 factories in this one
11:51:39 <V453000> I hate bots when it comes to controlling how much goes where etc
11:51:45 <V453000> which is kind of inevitable sooner or later
11:53:10 <Wolf01> meh, it looks like a ottdcoop game :D
11:53:47 <V453000> organic growth, and adding shitload of things
11:54:45 <lastmikoi> afaik Factorio is one of the few games that succesfully implemented the concept of technical debt
11:55:01 <Wolf01> factories to produce mining drills... do you really need those?
11:55:58 <V453000> I automate everything Wolf01, and mining drills are especially handy when you want to expand quickly
11:56:08 <V453000> lastmikoi: what do you mean technical debt?
11:56:21 <Wolf01> i produce them while travelling to destination
11:56:32 <lastmikoi> V453000: «let's just put this factory there, It won't last anyway»
11:56:46 <lastmikoi> 6 hours later you're forced to divert your railroad because of this factory's poor placement decision
11:57:08 <V453000> also, when biters get through your walls, they often take miners as first priority since they make a lot of pollution
11:57:16 <lastmikoi> kinda like technical debt in programming
11:57:33 <V453000> hm idk, never had that issue lastmikoi but I can see how that happens in longer games :D I dont play that long
11:57:35 <lastmikoi> «let's just put this function here, with those arguments, it'll be refactored soon anyway»
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11:58:04 <V453000> on the contrary, I love starting organically and keeping it forever
11:58:04 <lastmikoi> 6 months later you're forced to redo everything from scratch because the code is filled with debt
11:58:34 <V453000> well in factorio you can just start a new factory elsewhere and keep the old mess in the worst case scenario :P
11:58:51 <V453000> OpenTTD is more fitting to that, because it has limited map, so you cannot escape the solutions forever
11:58:57 <lastmikoi> but yeah, I play factorio like I code my programs, wasting time making it perfect and never-to-be-revamped
11:59:20 <lastmikoi> I can tell you multiplayer's no fun :D
11:59:35 <V453000> sure, well, it is not like I am going to revamp my mess :)
11:59:47 <Wolf01> i play factorio like i code my programs: continuous refactoring of things
11:59:49 <lastmikoi> V453000: yeah OpenTTD seems more fitting for that, but it has been a very long time since I played it, sadly.
12:00:00 <Wolf01> i play ottd like that too
12:01:42 <lastmikoi> V453000: holy cow that's a lot of productivity modules
12:03:25 <V453000> yeah, bobs modules also allow you to put them into all kinds of products, not only intermediates
12:03:33 <V453000> I kind of like that, makes it less wtf
12:03:40 <Supercheese> they should be renamed to MOAR modules because you use them to get MOAR stuff from the same inputs :P
12:03:49 <lastmikoi> V453000: GOD MODULES !
12:03:56 <Supercheese> and we're all about moar stuff
12:04:13 <Supercheese> well, except biters. Less biters.
12:04:25 <lastmikoi> (which should have been called BOB MODULES, but hey)
12:04:43 <V453000> I dont want to make the game dumb and easy with god modules, just want to make productivity modules which are harder to produce, and put them into anything I want :) the extra levels of modules are fun too
12:05:26 <Supercheese> yeah eight levels whew
12:05:47 <Supercheese> you can't even automate the last few without max tier assemblers
12:05:57 <Supercheese> well, for the merged ones that is
12:06:40 <V453000> I am using very simplified version
12:06:53 <V453000> without merged, no god modules, no bob machines or anything
12:07:13 <V453000> only modules with more levels, different recipes made of the bobs ingredients, and their own research lab with 8 tiers
12:07:48 <V453000> no new ores or wtf stuff, just a bit of stuff
12:08:19 <Supercheese> like extra toolbelts, I see
12:08:45 <V453000> yeah that is the mod which adds like 20 levels to each research
12:08:54 <V453000> so you always have something to use lab for
12:09:19 <V453000> because the high-tier researches are so stupidly expensive that it takes basically forever XD I plan on setting up a giant lab though of course
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12:10:06 <V453000> also, fluid barrel for president
12:10:08 <Eddi|zuHause> am i the only one here that didn't quite get captured by factorio?
12:10:09 <Supercheese> Follower Count 20 is like, what, few thousand each?
12:10:42 <Supercheese> I don't think I've ever bothered to research that high
12:10:44 <V453000> yeah like 10k I think
12:10:59 <V453000> vanilla is like 2k I believe
12:11:07 <V453000> but yeah just so many levels for follower count
12:11:45 <Supercheese> that you'll never really need
12:13:10 <V453000> the most retarded thing I saw is dytech mkIV beacon ... effect distribution of 100%, can put 11 modules into it, and area of effect is like range 20 :D
12:13:17 <V453000> not playing dytech again.
12:13:30 <V453000> not just due to the beacon, but yeah
12:16:13 <Supercheese> bob's has a mk3 beacon that is similar
12:21:25 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, rest assured, you're not alone
12:21:32 <FR^2> I thought "Yate Haugan" was a name of one engineer participating in the design of the Concorde. Can't find that name. What's the pun/significance of "Yate Haugan"?
12:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> FR^2: all the vehicle names are of people involved in making transport tycoon (alpha testers, etc.)
12:22:33 <FR^2> Eddi|zuHause: Ah, that's the relation. okay :)
12:25:13 <__ln__> oh, an FR^2 on this channel.
12:54:13 <Wolf01> derp... i'm stupid, i just finished a railway for iron ore and i linked it directly to the factory chain
13:22:09 <V453000> Supercheese: yes but only for 6 modules and much(I think much :) ) smaller coverage area :)
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13:58:46 <argoneus> they killed a police dog apparently
13:59:19 <V453000> yeah well we probably have bigger issues than a dog :P
13:59:36 <argoneus> only some isis people and a dog
14:01:00 <argoneus> we need a nuke that selectively kills only members of a given group
14:01:16 <argoneus> so the good muslims wont get in trouble
14:01:25 <V453000> well we mainly need our inner politics to be less retarded
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14:05:25 <Wolf01> i really need divivers in factorio, splitters are cool, but to make a divider you need to build a contraption with splitters and underground belts
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14:45:46 <FR^2> I'm often trying to plan ahead with enlarging stations and airports. Therefore I buy land. Is there any way to buy a larger area other than buying each land field one by one?
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15:18:33 <Flygon_> I back FR^2's question*
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15:22:07 <FR^2> bulldoze works much easier ;)
15:28:49 <planetmaker> FR^2, there is no such way. Mostly it was not (yet) implemented on grounds of easier griefing that way.
15:31:02 <FR^2> hmm, yes, I can understand that, but then again, there's lots of possibilities to do nasty things ;)
15:31:21 <FR^2> well, the question is answered - currently there is no easy way.
15:31:52 <planetmaker> yes, you're right, it's easy to do loads of nasty things
15:32:27 <planetmaker> tbh I argued against area-drag for buying. But now I'm not so sure it's the best argument - as there are ways to grief anyway, and not really more difficult
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15:33:38 <argoneus> planetmaker: what about horizontal railroads
15:33:41 <Wolf01> for example you could drag&drop railway all over the area, you could only do it in straight lines but with just some more work it's almost the same
15:34:05 <planetmaker> argoneus, that's another way to grief. But obviously one you can't forbid
15:34:45 <planetmaker> and that's the reason I'm not sure anymore it's a good argument to not implement area-drag buy land
15:35:04 <planetmaker> but then, how often is it needed to area-buy land?
15:37:47 <planetmaker> and there you need area-buy instead of single tiles?
15:37:59 <planetmaker> If I want to shape a city, I guy single tiles where roads would continue
15:38:36 <Wolf01> not if you are in the middle of a city trying to build a subway
15:39:13 <Wolf01> i often demolish a 4x12 rectangle to build a station and i need to keep it clean for just some time
15:39:17 <FR^2> I'm using it in order to prevent cities to grow all around my airport - so that later on I can replace that airport with a larger variant
15:39:54 <FR^2> (but then again, gaining profit with airplanes is far to easy if you don't restrict it ;)
15:41:10 <planetmaker> Wolf01, I usually don't have the reputation to demolish that much of a city :)
15:43:13 <Wolf01> cities really like me :)
15:44:16 <Wolf01> i can only do it one or twice a year, and if some new building gets in the way i must wait
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16:51:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:17:49 <FR^2> Are there any graphics patches to make the rail signs more clearly distinguishable? ;)
17:19:54 <Alberth> I guess you mean signals rather than signs :)
17:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure several people attempted that, and ended up with something that worked for them, but is equally confusing to everybody else
17:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> like dvorak keyboards, which you find people swearing on that it makes all the difference, but asymptotically doesn't change anything
17:23:11 <Alberth> zbase (the 32bpp baseset) and NUTS have different signals, but they also change a lot of other things
17:23:29 <Alberth> there may be more newgrfs
17:28:40 <Alberth> I still don't know the non-electric signals, but I set the startdate for the electric signals around 1800 or so, and never see the non-electric ones
17:29:14 <Alberth> in the end, it may be simpler to get used to the normal signals, as everybody uses those.
17:29:28 <Alberth> it makes communication about signal layout possible
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17:30:01 <Alberth> note that you pretty much only need the one-way path signal at first
17:30:21 <Alberth> with the two-way path signal at some special cases
17:32:48 <Alberth> the basic block signal is also often used, although there is no need for it, so you may want to recognize that one too
17:33:10 <Alberth> the combo signals are very very special case
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18:07:03 <FR^2> Hmm. zBase seems neat :)
18:39:52 <TrueBrain> we now have 2 cats in this channel?
18:43:20 <peter1138> hope it isn't too fucked :S
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27449 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2015-11-18 18:45:09 +0100 )
18:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:19 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
19:09:06 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
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19:23:34 <DorpsGek> __ln__: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 15 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
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20:24:10 <frosch123> hmm, you didn't like the cargoflow graphs :p
20:31:37 <andythenorth> I did an oops :)
20:33:00 <argoneus> TRAINS TRAINS TRAINS TRAINS
20:33:42 * andythenorth is refactoring some yuck
20:47:24 <andythenorth> merged functions with ‘if’ statements to control their behaviour
20:47:33 <andythenorth> give the illusion of efficient programming
20:49:43 <frosch123> hmm, btw. the is no "else" in pyramid templated, is there?
20:50:43 <frosch123> hmm, though there is a switch, so switch(condition) + case(true) + case(false) :p
20:57:08 <andythenorth> there is no else
20:57:18 <andythenorth> occasionally a PITA
20:57:31 <andythenorth> but usually you / one pre-prepares the data structure for rendering
20:57:37 <andythenorth> and handle it there
20:57:52 <andythenorth> but yeah, sometimes there are clunky conditionals
20:58:31 <andythenorth> chameleon/tal is not perfect, but I have been using it a long time and it suits my brain :)
20:59:07 <andythenorth> right, 48 hours later, I’ve refactored FIRS enough to swap Grain for Maize in one economy :P
20:59:14 <andythenorth> "think of the time saved"
21:10:06 <Eearslya> I wish MSVC wasn't completely inept at refactoring
21:12:24 <andythenorth> it doesn’t have find-replace? :O
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21:13:59 <Eearslya> It has find-replace, but not real IDE-style refactoring
21:14:10 <Eearslya> i.e. rename an object across the entire project
21:17:57 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
21:18:03 * andythenorth has never done any proper programming :)
21:45:44 <glx> Eearslya: it can do it (it does it for C# IIRC)
21:46:13 <Eearslya> Sure, for C# it does..It sucks doing it to a normal C project
21:46:18 <Eearslya> er, C++ in this case
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22:04:17 <Zuu> Eearslya: Visual Studio 2015 have refactor rename (Ctrl+R,R) at least in C#.
22:04:45 <Zuu> Oh.. reading along backlog, you said that yourself. :-)
22:06:00 <Eearslya> __ln__: That's a pretty steep price for something I would not nearly get enough use out of.. XD
22:07:37 <Eearslya> It -looks- like it has refactor rename in C++, but it's..incredibly stupid. i.e. if you tried to refactor Object1::name, it will also refactor Object2::name, Object3::name, and just..literally any variable named 'name'
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22:15:37 <Zuu> Looks like wholetomato may also be a toolset useful for users who are stuck at an old version of visual studio. Eg. if you in corperate settings depend on on a library only available for some visual studio version.
22:44:16 <__ln__> Zuu: That thing has features that VS2015 doesn't.
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23:20:47 * Supercheese reads xkcd, goes to Google, views source.
23:26:52 <Eearslya> Yeah, google has this thing where their pages are obfuscated in javascript..I have no idea why.
23:28:17 <Eearslya> I have no idea how ALL THAT JAVASCRIPT can be more efficient than just HTML
23:35:11 <Eearslya> It barely saves 20kB of transfer too (at least on google.com)
23:37:27 <planetmaker> 20kB * how many requests per hour?
23:38:21 <Supercheese> I believe the scientific number for Google's requests per hour is, "Like, a billion"
23:49:24 <Zuu> __ln__: Sure. And the price is not that bad if you would use VS a lot at work. But it said also that it provided some additional features present in todays VS for older versions.
23:54:36 <Rejf> Eearslya: with html and older browsers google used to render results server-side. now, with all that javascript they can use it to render search results on your machine and just produce and send some basic json data from their servers. win for them all the way
23:57:13 <Eearslya> Google does all this..and yet they end up sending their own google wallet e-mail into my spam folder. Welp.
continue to next day ⏵
