IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-08-17
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00:03:22 <Ether_Man> ProgSigs seems more along what I'm looking for. TTDpatch seems to still make decisions only based on train characteristics rather than track
00:03:43 <Garfield222> I am trying to look inside newgrf file. Have a litle problem. Is there some documentation about binary form of newgrf ?
00:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Garfield222: you're going to have better luck with decoding the newgrf with grfcodec into textual form
00:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Garfield222: or just looking up the source code, which is available for many grfs
00:15:22 <Garfield222> I trying to make python version of grfcodec. Cannot understand how grfcodec does it.
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00:16:08 <Garfield222> if header 10 bytes is missing, I read 2 bytes length, then 1 byte type (mostly 0xFF), then 1 byte action.
00:16:45 <Garfield222> problem occure, what to do with type px
00:17:09 <Garfield222> with type 0x01 and action 0x0B ?
00:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there may be documentation about the binary grf format in openttd's loader section, or in grfcodec itself
00:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also, nmlc may have bits and pieces
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22:58:41 <argoneus> so uh I have a question
22:58:48 <argoneus> if someone here's played simutrans
22:58:53 <argoneus> is there anything you feel it has over ottd?
22:59:01 <argoneus> or is it p much the same game just done differently
23:01:03 <argoneus> like openttd is basically from the 90s but it's pretty and looks nice
23:01:07 <argoneus> but simutrans just looks... old
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23:18:10 <Payl> Hi guys, is there a way to make conditional with train length? I wonder why it isn't option in 1.4 (and prob 1.5 aswell..?)
23:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use platform length to sort by train length. a train will try to go to the platform it best fits in
23:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a massive penalty for too short platforms, and a moderate penalty for too long platforms, and you can also customize it by too long and too long for per tile penalties through the console
23:26:31 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: Well in my case it's waypoint before station - there is buffering of incomming trains, and one of buffers can only accept trains up to X length
23:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, waypoints before the station do not work well in combination with path signals
23:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> because you lose the pathfinder penalty for occupied platform (which is behind the waypoint, and thus not checked by the pathfinder at all)
23:29:35 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: Well i'm not as experienced as you probably :) I think it's more convinient to make two stations instead of one+waypoints... anyway, it won't help solve my problem: train can go to buffer it cant fit in and probably lock some quite some track..
23:30:26 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: also, why would i care about penalty for platforms if i use entry signals...
23:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's what i was trying to say. turn the buffer into a station, and use "go via" orders, to turn it into a waypoint
23:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Payl: block signals circumvent the problem i mentioned, yes
23:31:32 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: well, since i have limited space there, i could only fit 3-level buffer, 1-level isn't enough :P
23:31:56 <Payl> so i have trains waiting in tunels and on bridge :P
23:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be a problem ;)
23:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the alternative is an overflow depot
23:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it will fit any number and length of trains
23:32:51 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: i probably will convert it to a bigger buffer that can fit all train lengths that arrive there anyway.. just wondering why isn't this option in game? :P
23:33:33 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: overflow depot wouldnt be fast enough probably, also would trains pile up there?
23:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem is usually that either nobody has worked on it, or the solution is too complicated to set up or explain to people
23:34:06 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: well conditional orders are in game, and train speed, age is... so i dont get why not train length? :P
23:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the thing you're looking for would be called "routing restrictions"
23:35:23 <Payl> well, they would be very useful...
23:36:05 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: are you game dev by any chance? :P
23:43:32 <Flygon> Everyone here is a game dev if you squint hard enough
23:43:36 <Flygon> Just don't ask me to code
23:43:46 <Flygon> My scripts once caused flamewars I am scared of bringing over to here
23:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm mentioned a few times in the commit logs, if that's what you mean. but i've never been an official developer
23:45:28 <Payl> Flygon: can i know this story plx? :PPP
23:45:49 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: next time we'll let you hit return ;)
23:46:00 <Flygon> Payl: Long story short - TASVideos has particular opinions as to what is good coding practice with regards to nested statements
23:46:07 <Flygon> This says a lot about how picky TASVideos is
23:46:21 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: well, since you are closer to community than me, tell me: why devs focus on bugfixing rather than on new features? Thats how it looks to me at least
23:46:37 <Flygon> Payl: Bugtesting new features is a pain in the ass
23:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'll probably refuse :p
23:46:59 <Flygon> Shh, Eddi. Just silently nod and agree with me. I got this.
23:47:02 <Payl> Flygon: well good coding practice is no rules for me :P It all depends on case
23:47:29 <Payl> Flygon: well, just implement feature - if it doesnt crash after 1h then push to trunk and wait for bug reports...
23:47:48 <Flygon> Even then, it depends on the feature...
23:47:56 <Flygon> EVERYONE wants flexible viaducts and subways
23:47:59 <Flygon> But that aint gonna happen
23:48:14 <Flygon> Nobody even agrees on how the GUI would work
23:48:19 <Payl> well, programable signals would be something new :P
23:48:20 <Flygon> Even if we all have a few ideas in our head
23:48:35 <Flygon> Ahh, not too familiar with programmable signals myself
23:48:56 <Payl> i dont think there is any new feature i would use since i started playing this game :P (1.2 i think)
23:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Payl: with that strategy, the project would fall apart within months
23:49:23 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: well, isn't development to add new things?
23:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if you ever took a development class, they would tell you that 10% is coding new things, and 90% is maintaining the code you wrote previously
23:50:50 <Rubidium> also... adding new things becomes significantly easier when you can drop support for old things
23:50:55 <Payl> well, this is true, but it doesnt mean why should focus on this 90% :P
23:51:19 <Flygon> Rubidium: The moment Flygon realizes OpenTTD has the same problems Windows has... xP
23:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 90% doesn't get less 90% by not focusing
23:51:28 <Rubidium> e.g. many issues can be solved by removing the ability to play against/with eachother and/or to save/load your games
23:51:41 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: well, but 10%=0 afaik? :P
23:52:02 <Payl> Rubidium: why would anyone want to save game?!
23:52:15 <Payl> Just run it in VM and suspend VM
23:52:58 <Flygon> I can see where you're coming at, but that's not a very good solution
23:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Payl: that's fine, if you discard the ability to update versions and play on with your old game
23:53:12 <Payl> well, that was a joke :P
23:53:47 <Payl> well, if the game was designed correctly, that adding something new on top of existing stuff should be possible "quite" painlessly
23:54:15 <Payl> i mean, it wont be supereasy, but if we dont want to add new things, why do we dev this anyway?
23:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that only works for new things that don't change any existing things
23:54:19 <Flygon> Payl, try not to shoot the hand that feeds you
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23:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> which is about 0% of all the new things people want to add
23:54:43 <Flygon> Everyone that codes for this projects is a voluteer, doing this in their spare time x:
23:55:07 <Flygon> Sure, more work could be done, but I don't particulary see enough donations rolling in to pay for the developer's full time attention
23:55:10 <Payl> Flygon: thats the case for many projects that make huge leaps forward :P
23:55:14 <Rubidium> Payl: you can have a well designed bungalow, but you can't add floors until it's a sky scraper... at some point you really need to redo the fundaments
23:55:18 <Flygon> I gotta disappear for several hours
23:56:07 <Payl> well, you dont seem to understand my point: My main point is: If you dont want to add new features, why dev this game?..
23:56:33 <Payl> developing is IMO to add new stuff and also fix broken stuff
23:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Payl: the point is that the premise of your point is wrong
23:57:04 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: probably, but i just wonder why new things arent added
23:57:04 <Rubidium> Payl: improving a bungalow doesn't mean adding floors until it's a sky scraper. It's making small modifications so it becomes a better bungalow
23:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of new stuff was added between 1.2 and 1.5. if you choose to ignore it, it's not our fault
23:57:41 <Payl> Eddi|zuHause: what for example? I might be not informed enough
23:58:10 <Rubidium> i.e. some large features can't be added because that requires making OpenTTD not OpenTTD anymore (go from a bungalow to a sky scraper), whereas quite a few small features are added... but you'll often overlook them
23:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Payl: look at the changelog for entries that begin with "-Feature"
23:58:49 <Rubidium> e.g. autorail/autoroad. You won't notice them, but you'll really miss them when they're gone (play really old versions and you'll know what I mean)
23:59:19 <Payl> Rubidium: probably it's easier to get used to new things than to admire them
23:59:40 <Payl> and this is very correct, openttd is quite a leap from ttd
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