IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-07-30
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12:06:37 <Ellon> Im trying to start arctic map in game but it shows me error that it couldnt generate woods
12:08:24 <Wolf01> too low, you might need more higher mountains, arctic woods need to be placed above the snow line
12:09:38 <Ellon> Are you planning to make 3d openttd?
12:11:12 <Ellon> Is it because it takes a lot of time to make 3rd graphics?
12:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but the whole internal structure must be changed
12:12:32 <Wolf01> most of the newgrf graphics come from 3D models, so I think the graphics are the last of the problem :P
12:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the first problem is you need to ditch all the community effort [NewGRFs] of the last ~10 years
12:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and once you do that, there are a whole lot of limitations now gone that held back certain developments, which you should adress at this very moment, or they'll creep back in
12:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and then a year has passed, without a possibility to release an updated version in the old style, but also without any development of a 3D world
12:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning that step was probably the death of this project
12:26:16 <Wolf01> but at least we could consider the map rotation (90° steps) :P
12:27:58 <Wolf01> and sprites aren't a problem, in gnomoria they do everything with 1 sprite
12:30:53 <planetmaker> Wolf01, I doubt that most graphics come from a 3D model.
12:31:38 <planetmaker> and the big problem with rotations is that you need it for all houses and industries (airports exist already, sort of for OpenGFX)
12:32:02 <planetmaker> and I'm not aware of 3D models for those except some as found in zbase.
12:32:30 <Wolf01> you can mirror the graphics
12:32:58 <Wolf01> ok, for airports you need to rotate the state machine
12:33:09 <planetmaker> Wolf01, no, you cannot mirror the graphics
12:33:28 <planetmaker> try that with an irregular one like the refiney or the coal mine
12:33:49 <planetmaker> the sprites will not fit a 90° rotation
12:34:03 <planetmaker> I thought so, too once. But actually look at them and try :)
12:34:09 <planetmaker> it's a (common?) fallacy
12:34:26 <Wolf01> uhm, yes, didn't thought about those
12:37:48 <Ellon> hae you thought about adding more stuff to game?
12:38:11 <planetmaker> we always do. And do just that. There's a plethora of newGRF, game scripts and AI
12:40:32 <planetmaker> Wolf01, what it needs for 3D rotation is really 3 new sprites for each house and industry sprite. That actually is not that much as it sounds, but still more than just a few dozen :)
12:41:05 <planetmaker> all other game content hardly needs new sprites for rotation: neither road nor track nor terrain nor trees nor vehicles - they all have that already
12:41:31 <planetmaker> and for airports we do have that with OpenGFX+Airports as some nice people actually drew those sprites already
12:41:53 <planetmaker> (and making that NewGRF basically taught me just that: it's not as simple as mirroring. Sadly)
12:42:18 <Wolf01> the problem is that you must drop the support for the original base sets, or disable the rotation if one uses only original base sets without a proper addition
12:42:37 <Wolf01> and that proper addition couldn't be made because copyright and stuff
12:42:38 <planetmaker> one could skip all 1x1 houses, but it looks nicer with new sprites, too
12:42:59 <planetmaker> yes... so let's hope for pikka's new one :)
12:44:28 <planetmaker> however an if-clause which queries the base set capabilities would be thinkable, too. Wouldn't be too bad, I think
12:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a terrible idea
12:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> also, NewGRFs would block this rotation again
12:47:52 <planetmaker> Wolf01, actually come think of it, it would be possible as it doesn't add new content / game concept
12:48:19 <planetmaker> And NewGRFs which provide houses, objects or industries would need a flag indicating their support for rotations
12:48:26 <planetmaker> which would disable rotation if not set
12:48:32 <planetmaker> yes. Not a bad idea at all, actually
12:49:03 <planetmaker> or airports would block it, too. And maybe actionA, simple sprite replacement. Not sure
12:50:01 <planetmaker> as such, I think this actually *is* a viable path which can be gone. And it's nicely backward compatible
12:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> for certain definitions of "nicely"
12:53:52 <Ellon> does openttd use new sprites?
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12:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what is a "new sprite" for you?
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12:57:43 <planetmaker> OpenTTD uses sprites and doesn't care about their age ;)
12:58:00 <planetmaker> as long as they're in the proper format
12:58:59 <Ellon> How about putting this game on steam?
13:07:24 <Wolf01> I think I'll restart my work about the new more usable fantastic scenario editor tools
13:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> back in my days we called that sand pit :p
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13:55:03 <dihedral> Wolf01: multi-touch for the map editor and building tools? :-P
13:55:40 <Wolf01> multi-touch would be cool too, as I play on my laptop
13:57:02 <dihedral> and support for touch intensity :-P
13:57:18 <dihedral> so that the beautiful graphite schreens from wacom also are supported
13:58:27 <Wolf01> we need first a touch support, the game is playable but has a lot of features which work with CTRL
13:58:56 <dihedral> [ ] <- touch to activate ctrl
13:59:04 <dihedral> touch to activate shift -> [ ]
13:59:15 <dihedral> [ ] <- touch to f... off
13:59:25 <dihedral> touch to report a bug -> [ ]
14:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> never run a touching system
14:55:08 <planetmaker> nor a touchy system
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15:34:46 <peter1138> Yeah, touch would be nice.
15:34:51 <peter1138> No idea how to implement it though.
15:35:01 <peter1138> I'm guessing SDL is a no-no.
15:35:14 <planetmaker> SDL2 maybe? No clue about that, though
15:39:09 <peter1138> Mind you my tablet is Windows so I'd have to delve into that.
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16:52:05 <dihedral> yay, peter1138 volunteered :-P
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17:18:15 <argoneus> the tile indexing in this game
17:19:16 <argoneus> (x,y), x is going towards top right?
17:19:31 <argoneus> and y towards bottom right
17:22:17 <argoneus> also, is there a reason squirrel is used and not lua?
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17:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> x goes to the bottom left
17:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> y goes to the bottom right
17:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (0,0) is the topmost tile (usually invisible)
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18:59:07 <DorpsGek> Taede: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 1 minute, and 32 seconds ago: <frosch123> it has locked 30fps, so why not?
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19:45:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27347 trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt (2015-07-30 19:45:14 +0200 )
19:45:20 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> slovenian - 15 changes by matej1245
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20:45:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27348 /branches/1.5 (6 files in 3 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:45:29 +0200 )
20:45:37 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
20:45:38 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Password window layout with GUI zoom [FS#6321] (r27304, r27303)
20:45:39 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Speed-only timetables got assigned times in stations [FS#6313] (r27302, r27301)
20:45:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Enforce the company's default service intervals when purchasing another company [FS#6254] (r27282, r27281)
20:48:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27349 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:48:25 +0200 )
20:48:32 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
20:48:33 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces [FS#6283] (r27308)
20:48:34 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom [FS#6259] (r27307)
20:48:35 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad [FS#6320] (r27306, r27305)
20:50:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27350 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:50:39 +0200 )
20:50:46 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
20:50:47 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Incorrect owner assignment when adding/removing road/tram to/from bridges [FS#6317] (r27313, r27312)
20:50:48 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Mark infrastructure window dirty in more cases (r27311)
20:50:49 <DorpsGek> - Change: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings [FS#6283] (r27309)
20:53:38 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27351 /branches/1.5 (4 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:53:31 +0200 )
20:53:39 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
20:53:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not rerandomise the town name when only cost-estimating the founding [FS#6332] (r27341)
20:53:41 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make variety distribution not assume that sea level is at height 0.2 / 3 * TGPGetMaxHeight() [FS#6335] (r27331, r27330, r27329, r27328)
20:53:42 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Remove corner-case optimisation for line drawing, which failed for dashed lines (r27324)
20:55:35 <Taede> frosch123, infinite loop fs updated with 'bt full' and also a way to reproduce (seems to work on ps at least)
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21:39:51 <Wolf01> yay updated to windows 10!.... no.. just regular updates :|
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22:42:25 <Matthias_> Im also known as Audiopulse or Mace :)
22:43:08 <a_sad_dude> i'm sometimes Virtulis
22:43:25 <a_sad_dude> so, shall we discuss what we wanted in private or in public?
22:43:50 <Matthias_> its your project, so id leave it to you :)
22:45:51 <Matthias_> It doesnt really look like were disturbing anyone here, so Id be fine with just staying here
22:46:10 <a_sad_dude> you wanted me to add Industrial Stations Renewal, was there anything else?
22:46:32 <Matthias_> Theres a GRF called something like bridge-renewal...
22:46:43 <Matthias_> Let me look its exact name up
22:48:05 <a_sad_dude> Total Bridge Renewal Set?
22:48:22 <Matthias_> hah, yes, youre right :)
22:49:37 <a_sad_dude> we also need a different trainset I think but one that works with ECS
22:49:44 <Matthias_> Whatever the game - I like mods, but I also like playing in Multiplayer ... so I often go for fewer mod(packs) with the biggest effect... :)
22:49:57 <Matthias_> What is the one called youre using now?
22:50:27 <Matthias_> Hmm. Thats the one Ive been using in the past...
22:50:51 <Matthias_> I might have to double-check - but so far ive only seen that swiss train being out of balance
22:51:03 <Matthias_> everything else seems fine, train-wise
22:51:42 <a_sad_dude> well it's on default settings and i'm not sure it even has any
22:52:12 <a_sad_dude> ah, it's "2cc in NML". maybe i should have used the default one
22:52:28 <Matthias_> Okay? whats the difference?
22:53:29 <a_sad_dude> no idea, this one is newer, so probably has more bugs
22:53:43 <Matthias_> hehe, that could be :)
22:54:01 <Matthias_> Is it possible to disable single trains in 2cc?
22:56:37 <a_sad_dude> i don't think it is
22:56:46 <Matthias_> If so, then that might be all it takes as I saw some people "abusing" said swiss train...
22:57:26 <Matthias_> Another solution might be switching to a smaller train-pack, as the gameplay with your mod is rather RV-dependant anyways
22:57:48 <Matthias_> So you probably dont need that many different trains anyways.
22:58:37 <a_sad_dude> also needs to be in BaNaNaS
23:01:22 <Matthias_> I had an eye on the UK-renewal-set
23:01:38 <Matthias_> it looked nice ... i dont know any of these sets closer
23:02:18 <Matthias_> Thing is, I know I would miss the wagons from the 2cc-set
23:02:46 <Matthias_> They work well as it gives you an option to choose older, cheaper variants.
23:02:57 <Matthias_> as far as i am aware, no other set does this.
23:06:22 <a_sad_dude> well i'm currently checking out NARS and it seems to have different wagons too
23:07:38 <a_sad_dude> I think I'll go with that for the next game and see how it works out
23:09:22 <Matthias_> I was going to suggest that. It sure gives a wide choice of Railvehicles to choose from
23:09:34 <Matthias_> and the look well drawn :)
23:10:59 <Matthias_> Me and my Sis were on it
23:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone seen my mouse?
23:11:48 <a_sad_dude> Eddi|zuHause, how did it look?
23:12:05 <a_sad_dude> Matthias_, so why haven't you won yet
23:12:32 <Matthias_> I tried to give everyone else a chance :D
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23:23:16 <Matthias_> Im actually getting lag on my Laptop
23:23:55 <a_sad_dude> which continent are you on?
23:24:32 <a_sad_dude> that's weird because the server is in France. should be superfast
23:24:35 <Matthias_> Its probably my Laptop.
23:25:22 <Matthias_> I never had that before with OTTD, but then again - so far ive mostly been using trains...
23:25:32 <Matthias_> instead of these heaps of trucks ;)
23:28:20 <Matthias_> it always breaks my heart a little, when i see your (leaving)message ingame
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23:33:03 <a_sad_dude> openttd crashed, that's new
23:33:22 <a_sad_dude> or maybe it didn't
23:33:49 <a_sad_dude> i'm not even sure what happened
23:35:35 <a_sad_dude> so, shall we race to 5k?
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