IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-05-22
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:35 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
01:29:41 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
01:42:41 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
01:54:41 *** supermop has joined #openttd
02:02:07 *** thiagoxxxx_ has joined #openttd
02:02:18 *** thiagoxxxx_ has left #openttd
02:35:17 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
04:19:09 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
04:47:43 *** Ketsuban has joined #openttd
04:48:36 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
05:46:09 *** smoke_fumus|2 has joined #openttd
06:04:45 * kamnet is the biggest douchebag OpenTTD player ever
06:57:16 *** Ketsuban has joined #openttd
07:20:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:21:54 <andythenorth> nearby_tile_industrytile_id
07:22:07 <andythenorth> how do I take the second byte in nml?
07:23:03 <andythenorth> nml generally does not return results as a word
07:37:06 <Pikka> plenty of variables are more than byte-sized...
07:40:40 <andythenorth> to make them the right size for eating
07:41:38 <Pikka> if you only need the second byte, can you shift the first byte off?
07:42:14 <andythenorth> yeah, there are shift expressions in nml
07:42:22 <andythenorth> I am seeing if there is a better way
07:42:35 <andythenorth> checking tile ID in the graphics chain is…waste of CPU :P
07:45:18 <Pikka> I'm pretty sure the game is going to calculate the entire variable, even if you're only using part of it? :o
07:45:38 <Pikka> "calculate", it's not really a calculation, just a look up :)
07:50:38 <andythenorth> how are pruple things?
07:51:31 * andythenorth wonders when 60s compiles became acceptable instead of 10s, but eh
07:52:51 <V453000> meant hi but it came out alright I guess
07:53:00 <Pikka> pruple things are going okay. Except I have a couple of thousand words to write by midnight
07:53:06 <Pikka> and then another couple by monday.
07:53:26 <Pikka> when I'd rather be texturing trams.
07:54:27 <andythenorth> I used to find writing the words easy
07:54:37 <andythenorth> it was the cutting them down from 5000 to 2000 that took the effort :P
07:54:47 <andythenorth> FIRS is about the same actually
07:55:26 <Pikka> it's not hard, just a little tedious. :) a what-I-want-to-be-when-I-grow-up assignment designed for 17 year olds...
08:07:11 * andythenorth wonders what to be when he grows up
08:07:47 <Pikka> I want to do pineapples.
08:08:04 <Pikka> I want to be a pineapple doer.
08:11:30 * andythenorth wants to be compiling FIRS faster when he grows up
08:12:06 <Pikka> pineapple trains takes about 20 minutes to compile
08:12:35 <andythenorth> you should make it faster
08:12:41 <Pikka> mainly because it has to load 18,000 seperate pngs :)
08:14:33 <andythenorth> newgrfs, made of coal
08:16:15 <andythenorth> an amazing system
08:16:26 <andythenorth> we dig up dead animals and turn them into pixels
08:20:38 <andythenorth> what happens if I don’t set some tile properties
08:22:06 <Pikka> it explodes and falls in a heap?
08:25:48 <andythenorth> or it just breaks quietly
08:25:55 <andythenorth> or it is a non-issue :P
08:31:52 <andythenorth> maybe I figured out animation finally :P
08:38:24 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
08:44:47 <QRSong> where are you come from?
08:45:49 <V453000> How is that important? :D
08:46:41 <kamnet> Supercheese: Of course I am. I only play on 8092x8092 maps.
08:47:15 <V453000> the fuck do you even do on such a map :D
08:47:58 <V453000> that doesnt sound like it goes well together with building 8k rail tiles across :D
08:48:12 <kamnet> You create 20-wide tracks of maglevs. :D
08:49:18 <kamnet> Oh, it's after midnight, I should be able to see my paystub.
08:50:19 <kamnet> Oh how ironic, I resume my broadcast of Eurovision, it's Azerbaijan's entry, "I Won't Sleep Tonight"
08:51:22 <QRSong> you should go to sleep
08:51:35 <kamnet> I just got out of bed, tried for the last 2 hours
08:51:54 <kamnet> I kinda sorta slept, kept waking up in between random bits of dreams
08:52:12 <kamnet> I need to take a nasal decongestant I think
08:57:16 <Supercheese> probably 2-3 AM then
08:57:19 <kamnet> Hey, I got an okay paycheck. It'll be gone.
08:57:22 <Supercheese> just midnight here on west coast
09:00:25 <QRSong> now Fri May 22 15:00:16 CST 2015
09:03:11 <kamnet> I have to be up in 2 hours anyhow
09:03:38 <kamnet> I gotta go clean a house to help out a friend, then take her to the ear doctor, then go finish up my own work for the week.
09:04:54 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:29:21 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
09:32:48 <kamnet> Well the 2nd round of semifinals were definitely better than the first.
09:35:40 <kamnet> Eurovision Song Contest
09:39:24 <kamnet> A very fine music competition.
09:39:25 <Supercheese> Ha, an American telling a Chinese about the European song contest
09:40:00 <kamnet> Americans should be more exposed to this. I am going to petition PbS to start broadcasting the finals live.
09:40:40 <QRSong> What do you think of China
09:41:07 <QRSong> I am a embedded programmer
09:41:41 <kamnet> I studied Chinese culture and language for a semester in grade school. It was just about the only thing I excelled in that semester. It wasn't a good period for me.
09:42:19 <Supercheese> also, most things sold here are made in China, it's crazy how much stuff is
09:42:44 <kamnet> My girlfriend was manufactured in China!
09:45:28 <QRSong> Little thing is China, big Chinese no
09:46:55 <QRSong> I like American education
09:48:13 <kamnet> Wu Long, also a big man
09:48:52 <kamnet> Actually, one of my favorite trains that are here in kentucky was actually manufactured in China
09:49:57 <QRSong> Look China has already towards the world
09:51:18 <DorpsGek> V453000: #openttd.dev for dev-talk
09:51:23 <DorpsGek> V453000: Logs: @logs
09:51:27 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: topic [<channel>]
09:51:39 <DorpsGek> V453000: English only
09:51:54 <V453000> only took 3 tries to count to 5 correctly
09:56:10 <kamnet> No I can't speak any Chinese anymore. Not that I could much.
09:57:51 <kamnet> Well i can say hello in Mandarin. Maybe. Or I might have insulted somebody
09:58:11 <kamnet> I'm sure my pronunciation i shorrible now
10:01:20 <V453000> does building while paused desync multiplayer?
10:08:13 <kamnet> This is R.J. Corman Railroad's "Old Smokey", a Chinese QJ 2-10-2
10:09:50 <QRSong> Network can't get into our company
10:10:07 <kamnet> It was built in 1986 and hauled coal and passengers in Liaoning province.
10:10:50 <kamnet> It was retired in 2006 and purchased for restoration in the United States
10:13:00 <QRSong> The United States is very nb
10:14:13 <QRSong> nb is Science and technology developed
10:15:07 <QRSong> Chinese people want to go to America in the 90 s
10:35:54 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
10:35:58 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
10:41:40 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:45:03 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:45:45 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
12:19:27 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
12:26:28 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
12:36:29 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
13:03:27 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
13:32:12 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest6030
13:32:17 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
13:54:33 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
13:56:27 *** Celestar1 has joined #openttd
14:04:18 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd
14:16:22 *** supermop has joined #openttd
14:32:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
14:33:55 <andythenorth> oh, the coupon code is missing on that link
14:33:59 <andythenorth> no special offer for you
14:34:14 * Pikka is nearly finished writing this dratted assignment
14:34:25 <Pikka> which is all about openttd graphics or something.
14:34:45 <andythenorth> that’s not grown up
14:35:18 <Pikka> it's about the kickstarter, mostly
14:35:41 <andythenorth> “when I grow up I wonder like to be a crowdfunded hero” :D
14:36:03 <Pikka> well it's a bit more detailed than that :P
14:36:24 <andythenorth> do you have a cashflow?
14:36:32 <andythenorth> discounted for inflation?
14:36:49 * andythenorth is super grown up
14:36:55 <Pikka> my basic premise is "trainz can do it and trainz is rubbish, so..."
14:37:05 * andythenorth has built and nearly crashed several businesses using mad skillz
14:38:05 <andythenorth> more money coming in than going out
14:38:15 <andythenorth> but not always achieveable :P
14:38:50 <andythenorth> sometimes more money going out than coming in
14:38:59 <andythenorth> but that is naturally self-limiting :
14:39:03 <peter1138> If I had that, I could afford a new laptop ;p
14:39:11 <andythenorth> I afforded you one, it’s ok
14:39:17 <peter1138> It stopped charging.
14:40:19 <andythenorth> one of: charger, mac, battery, PMU
14:40:36 <andythenorth> don’t have any others to give away currently :P
14:43:38 <peter1138> It might charge eventually.
14:45:07 <andythenorth> wiggle the magic magnet power thing
14:45:24 <andythenorth> otherwise you are the owner of a donated lump of plastic :D
14:54:30 <Pikka> bedtime, got another one to write by monday
14:54:39 <Pikka> + getting up at 5am on sunday for eurovision of course
15:00:51 <andythenorth> “Pikka: 3 points"
15:13:32 *** Johnnei has joined #openttd
16:18:33 *** shirish has joined #openttd
16:44:04 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
16:44:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
16:51:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:26:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:37:56 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
17:54:39 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
18:03:15 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
18:42:59 <Rubidium> andythenorth: pikka should get 12 points from every country... just so the next is hosted in Sydney
19:00:12 <Afdal> Lately there has been a trend towards newGRF developers putting in 32bpp graphics in their newGRFs
19:00:23 <Afdal> This is all fine and good however
19:00:27 <andythenorth> it is the cool new thing
19:00:29 <Afdal> 32bpp runs like ass on some systems
19:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you can disable 32bpp from openttd.cfg or the command line
19:00:50 <Afdal> And needing to know some cryptic line to edit into the cfg file to restore 8bpp is not good
19:01:00 <andythenorth> it will increase the number of valued players
19:01:00 <Afdal> Are there plans to put this into the advanced settings menu somewhere?
19:01:08 <andythenorth> by making this old game look more modern and exciting
19:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
19:01:17 <Afdal> Please consider doing so
19:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> even if we did want that, it requires restarting openttd, and no existing setting has infrastructure to tell that
19:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe it doesn't
19:02:22 <Afdal> Another thing that bananas could really use
19:02:23 <Rubidium> what OS is it actually?
19:02:31 <andythenorth> why does the blitter matter?
19:02:33 <Afdal> is an option to only download 8bpp portions of a newgrf
19:02:43 <Afdal> Because these 32bpp things are gigantic sometimes
19:02:49 <andythenorth> I thought the 8bpp blitter was a problem now
19:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that was originally intended, but i guess nobody implemented that
19:02:54 <Afdal> It's a ton for people to casually download when joining a server
19:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the GRFv8 format was prepared so that GRFs with and without 32bpp sections have the same checksum
19:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> for that exact purpose
19:03:25 <andythenorth> is the problem the blitter performance, or the filesize?
19:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> of providing stripped versions of the GRFs
19:04:41 <Rubidium> the tool to strip the 32bpp stuff from GRFs even exists
19:05:17 <Afdal> two different problems, andythenorth
19:05:50 <Rubidium> just the creation of the rest of the server infrastructure requires some thought, and I reckon that's at the moment the toughest part to get right
19:07:57 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it that whenever i open a "help it doesn't work" thread i immediately have a thought on what the solution is after reading the first post, then there are 10-20 posts going in completely different directions, and the last post is "i got it, the solution is X" where X is exactly my initial thought.
19:29:35 <andythenorth> because you are wired for that kind of thinking
19:30:12 <__ln__> (or because you authored all those "help it doesn't work" threads yourself?)
19:30:20 <andythenorth> also, there is a name in philosophy of science for that kind of ‘it is because it is’ reasoning, but I forgot it
19:31:51 <andythenorth> “why have turtles survived as a species?"
19:31:56 <andythenorth> “because they’re fitted for survival"
20:34:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or because they have been trained by mr. splinter?
20:40:21 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
20:41:08 <andythenorth> how should FIRS fix clustering?
20:41:17 * andythenorth is not good at algorithmic stuff
20:41:23 <andythenorth> mostly good at painting pixels
20:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not up to date on what the current issues are
20:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> one was that the distance between individual cluster elements should be bigger
20:43:22 <andythenorth> clusters don’t scale appropriately to map size (bigger map, more clusters)
20:43:30 <andythenorth> is the main issue
20:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be easy to achieve
20:43:42 <andythenorth> I can fix the spacing within a cluster fairly trivially
20:43:55 <andythenorth> I’m sure nfo FIRS had cluster regulation per-map size
20:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a variable that you can read for the map size
20:44:03 <andythenorth> written by either Eddi or Peter
20:44:11 * andythenorth could go looking in hg
20:44:32 <andythenorth> we scaled to some base size (maybe 1 cluster per 128x128 or so)
20:44:36 <andythenorth> and then multiplied up
20:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Änderung: 908:cb5b0d9ff092
20:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Nutzer: planetmaker <ottd@planetmaker.de>
20:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Datum: Sun Jun 13 20:23:46 2010 +0200
20:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Zusammenfassung: Add: Add parameters for map size and map-size dependent cluster count
20:46:50 <andythenorth> ‘mult’ and ‘div’ are just arbitrary to me, I don’t follow what they do
20:47:20 <andythenorth> they’re usually pairs like 5 and 4, or 3 and 2, or 1 and 2
20:50:18 <andythenorth> maybe the map scaling is still there
20:50:18 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
20:50:22 <andythenorth> what is the ‘industry_clusters’ param
20:52:28 <andythenorth> industry_clusters = (relative_map_size / 2) + 1;
20:52:55 <andythenorth> relative_map_size = map_size / (256 * 256);
20:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't look right
20:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> map_size is usually given in exponents
20:53:39 <andythenorth> so that code is present, but I assumed it wasn’t, because I see not-good results at map gen time
20:53:55 <andythenorth> also scaling by number of industries in economy should be considered :|
20:54:05 <andythenorth> in small economies, giant clusters form
20:54:08 <andythenorth> which is boring for play
20:55:13 <andythenorth> these are ‘interesting’ problems
20:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd try removing those double /256
20:55:31 <andythenorth> it’s a shame they can’t be delegated away from newgrf, but we are where we are :P
20:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they look wrong
20:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> oh. nml seems to exponentiate it
20:58:38 <andythenorth> it is productive, but sometimes odd
20:59:28 <andythenorth> did I mention that ever?
21:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> bwhäh this piece of nml looks horrible. who made that?
21:03:25 <frosch123> andy only writes python
21:03:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: which bit?
21:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> nml is written in python
21:04:04 <andythenorth> ‘nml is python’ != ‘python in nml’ :P
21:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> expr = expression.BinOp(nmlop.ADD, expr, expression.ConstantNumeric(info['log_offset'], expr.pos), expr.pos)
21:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> return expression.BinOp(nmlop.SHIFT_LEFT, expression.ConstantNumeric(1, expr.pos), expr, expr.pos)
21:04:06 <frosch123> oh, you were talking about nml itself, not about a grf
21:04:12 <andythenorth> eh, I don’t write that :D
21:04:31 <andythenorth> _apparently_ nml also uses a lot of global vars, and then scribbles over them constantly
21:04:43 <andythenorth> which made sad a person who I tried to interest in making it faster
21:04:54 <andythenorth> dunno if that analysis holds up or not
21:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably does
21:07:11 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
21:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Änderung: 916:ca00363fd131
21:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Datum: Tue Oct 26 14:31:38 2010 +0200
21:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Zusammenfassung: Feature #1729: Support reading various 'patch variables' via actionD.
21:08:47 <frosch123> you hjave a weird locale configuration
21:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i just thought that as well
21:09:02 <frosch123> german messages, but american time
21:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably hg's fault...
21:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Fr 22. Mai 21:09:24 CEST 2015
21:10:14 <Johnnei> Funny how my irc client reports that message at 21:09:48
21:11:55 <frosch123> i don't know whether eddi has it
21:12:00 <frosch123> but you are 8 seconds off
21:13:19 <Johnnei> I thought I already configured windows to use a working time server, seems not :p
21:14:31 <andythenorth> quite zoomed out though
21:16:01 <frosch123> V453000: so, are you playing again?
21:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it took me a few seconds to copy it over from the console...
21:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: too unrealistic
21:18:55 <Alberth> nice white mountain andy :)
21:19:15 <andythenorth> the tree growth algorithm is out of control
21:20:05 <andythenorth> and the smoke direction is wrong for some reason
21:20:15 <andythenorth> is that a bug in their newgrf?
21:20:21 <andythenorth> someone should tell the author
21:20:32 <andythenorth> at least the lighting is correct
21:28:06 <Supercheese> need to replace the smoke detectors eh
21:33:32 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
21:38:08 <andythenorth> going to a Vale mine in Brazil
21:38:17 * andythenorth should put them in South American Road Hog
22:01:45 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest6069
22:01:51 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
22:02:49 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:06:13 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
22:06:55 *** Martin89 has joined #openttd
22:12:30 <Taede> [2015-05-22 19:55:39] dbg: [net] send failed with error 32 <-- whereabouts would i find out what that error means?
22:12:38 <Taede> (its the adminport btw)
22:13:55 <Rubidium> in your local operating system's manual about the send API
22:15:04 <Taede> ah, so not ottd specific then
22:16:08 <Taede> hm, broken pipe, not very helpful
22:16:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that usually means that the receiving program exited
22:16:42 <Taede> or disconnected at leasst
22:17:08 <frosch123> eints threw that when we did not read packets completely from the socket
22:18:01 *** Martin89 has joined #openttd
22:20:12 <Taede> soap disconnects because it reads an empty packet
22:21:20 <Taede> is there a way to see what packets openttd tries to send (adminport only) ?
22:21:59 <Taede> the problem only seems to occur on one stable (through several revisions) when there is lots of activity (plenty companies and vehicles)
22:23:06 <frosch123> there is only debug output when sending fails
22:23:34 <frosch123> but, well that's the 32 message which you got
22:29:13 *** Defaultti has joined #openttd
22:33:10 <Taede> ah, the magic of time.sleep
22:34:09 <andythenorth> 2 more FIRS industries refactored
22:34:31 * andythenorth kicking goals :P
22:38:29 <andythenorth> is he right about docks in Ports and such?
22:38:34 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
22:42:22 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
22:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is no "right" or "wrong"
22:59:48 <andythenorth> but decisions have to be made...
23:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the heliport thing is minor at best
23:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the transfer issue is totally besides the point
23:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem i see is that you cannot use builtin docks for transferring from trains/trucks (e.g. supplies)
23:11:34 <andythenorth> I’m not convinced it solves anything
23:15:35 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd
23:17:00 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
23:17:34 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:19:08 *** shirish__ has joined #openttd
23:25:59 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
23:33:47 *** shirish has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵