IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-05-05
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:01 <FLHerne> One option is just to have two stations, the other is to use a waypoint to restrict loading trains to a subset of the platforms
00:00:32 <FLHerne> In that case, using a depot as a magic buffer can be helpful too (and replace the waypoint in such a setup)
00:00:55 <FLHerne> That sentence was a bit incoherent, oh well
00:03:16 <TartarusMkII> thats interesting, I think Isee
00:17:03 <TartarusMkII> What tells a train what trrain depot to go to if you tell it to go to one?
00:17:08 <TartarusMkII> My trains just never go to the closest one..
00:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "closest" by pathfinder penalties
00:18:03 <TartarusMkII> that's weird, the train passed a depot, then went through a station then much track to another depot..
00:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you use path signals, the search starts at the end of the current reservation, not the position of the train
00:20:50 <TartarusMkII> ah okay good to know
00:29:12 <TartarusMkII> look, it won't stop lol
00:29:31 <TartarusMkII> even with semaphores on the line, this train is insisting on riding past the depot at Tachburk Manor, down to Jesburk Manor
00:29:34 <TartarusMkII> but for what reason???
00:29:41 <TartarusMkII> that train never -ever- has to go to Jesburk
00:30:39 <TartarusMkII> so much time is wasted, I may simply lose the game because of this
00:31:20 <TartarusMkII> I see what is happening, when the train goes to Tachburk from the north, it's reserving space all along the tracks until that last depot, and the train to the south can't run.
00:31:37 <TartarusMkII> But why is it reserving tracks so far away from the station it's stopping at? There are plenty of signals all along the tracks..
00:31:47 <TartarusMkII> they are Path signals.
00:33:26 <LadyHawk> im not sure without seeing anything but if there's even a single signal missing that somehow connects the tracks together.. it will do that
00:33:35 <TartarusMkII> I sent a screen shot via gyazo
00:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: are the signals in the other direction?
00:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't decipher anything on this picture
00:34:36 <TartarusMkII> They are facing a direction, yea. I did not think it mattered with path signals
00:35:43 <LadyHawk> come from the wrong direction and they either 'don't exist' for the train or tells train 'oh wtf am i? *full turn*'
00:36:01 <LadyHawk> not played with newest updates i dont know if the behaviour has changed
00:36:18 <TartarusMkII> never before have I ever noticed any behavior with path signals and their facing
00:36:30 <TartarusMkII> Yea, that did wrk
00:36:38 <TartarusMkII> but I don't understand why. I guess I had path signals all wrong.
00:40:53 <LadyHawk> trains try to 'think' for themselves, so there'll be no set way of things screwing up, it'll be random
00:42:27 <LadyHawk> i used to have a huge network with loads of trains and just watch 1 junction for hours.. i'm that sad =)
00:45:21 <LadyHawk> with so many variables, sooner or later i'd always find a train behave strange
00:48:11 <LadyHawk> gotta admit though.. knowing you did the signals wrong for a while, and only now realised something was off... they're quite clever
00:49:26 <TartarusMkII> I wish I understood better
00:49:44 <TartarusMkII> it says path signals let them occupy the same space as long as there's room ahead. And that they can be passed from behind
00:50:02 <TartarusMkII> how can I make path signals that work both ways? Like if trains want to share ONE track (but wouldn't ever colide?)
00:50:06 <TartarusMkII> I guess they can't..
00:50:17 <TartarusMkII> what about a train that has to go back and forth..
00:52:46 <LadyHawk> always need 2... 1 for one way, and 1 for the way back
00:53:20 <LadyHawk> whenever both ways go over a single line, there wont be 2 trains running
00:53:36 <TartarusMkII> oh I forgot I could put two there.. duh
00:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: that likely will make two trains stuck waiting for the other to clear the track
00:57:18 <TartarusMkII> I know what you mean, but I feel like I have to do it for the sake of one station that trains have to go in and out of
00:57:26 <TartarusMkII> but I have a better understanding of it now at least.
04:47:32 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
05:04:56 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
05:15:52 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
05:31:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd
05:44:52 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
05:46:38 <JezK> until I built an international airport then immediately went bankrupt due to the maintenance cost.
05:47:53 <JezK> seems maintenance costs should be less than the cost of building it in the first place
05:47:56 <Supercheese> You can use Av8 and its parameter to make the maintenance a bit less excessive
05:49:17 <JezK> how do you change newgrf parameters?
05:49:42 <Supercheese> well, it is best done only just before starting a new game
05:49:59 <Supercheese> it is possible to do so in a running game, but may introduce issues
05:50:37 <Supercheese> but clicking the newgrf in the active column there has parameter settings, yeah like that
05:54:07 <Pikkaphone> silly infrastructure maintenance
05:56:11 <JezK> i don't mind the idea in theory
05:56:22 <JezK> but the values seemed way off on those airports
06:00:20 <Pikkaphone> I'm surprised if opengfx airports doesn't have parameters for those costs, as am alternative to av8
06:01:18 <JezK> mm i think it was from opengfx+ airports
06:03:29 <Pikkaphone> iirc high maintenance costs for airports was a misguided attempt at reducing the profitability of massive cross-map air routes
06:04:23 <Pikkaphone> but of course all it achieved was making massive cross-map air routes the *only* viable use for aircraft...
06:05:44 <JezK> would be more useful if you could rent out your airport to competitors or something
06:29:41 *** Pikkaphone2 has joined #openttd
06:45:07 <Supercheese> that's part of what the Infrastructure Sharing patch aims to accomplish
06:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
07:33:28 <kamnet> I quite like Infrastructure Sharing patch. I everybody could just agree as to what happens when a company goes bankrupt, this would get a more serious push towards trunk.
07:34:33 <JezK> hmm should give other players the option of buying them out
07:35:20 <kamnet> It does, but what if nobody buys them out? What happens to their infrastructure, and if fees were being collected before, what happens to those fees?
07:37:29 <JezK> hmm what would happen in the real world.. government would step in and set up someone to administrate, so found a new company to take control of it and fees go there instead?
07:41:06 *** minimoo has joined #openttd
07:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> JezK: that basically amounts to "convert the property to owner 'None'"
07:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (which happens to roads anyway)
07:57:48 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:57:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
08:12:04 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
08:16:49 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd
08:25:57 *** Johnnei has joined #openttd
08:51:59 <JezK> really enjoying this japanese trains set :3
08:52:22 * JezK misses riding trains in japan
08:53:02 * kamnet has never been to Japan, nor ridden on a train.
08:53:38 <JezK> you should try both of these things!
08:53:57 <JezK> possibly at the same time
08:54:20 <JezK> Except it's very depressing coming home to our slow trains
08:55:55 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
09:00:59 <Johnnei> Should try that maglev one in Japan (or was it China?) which set a new record for trains :p
09:01:40 <JezK> Japan maglev set record recently
09:01:50 <JezK> but won't be open for a long time
09:01:51 <Johnnei> Maglev train in Japan managed to maintain 600+ km/h for 11 seconds, reaching 603 km/h at max :p
09:02:01 <Johnnei> blame the mountains :p
09:03:01 <Johnnei> Scheduled for opening in 2027
09:03:32 <Johnnei> And in 2045 the expansion to Osaka should(tm) be finished
09:04:36 <Johnnei> I wonder if there will be any health restrictions to get on that train
09:05:50 <JezK> I took a standard train from Nagoya -> Tokyo a few months ago, took about 4 hours, quite a nice trip. Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka was pretty good too, about 2.5 hours i think
09:08:36 <Johnnei> Oh that's suprisingly low .-.
09:09:45 <JezK> "Electromagnetic force is significantly stronger than gravity (gravity is only .4379562 x 10-41 times the electromagnetic force). It doesn't take much electromagnetism to negate gravity" that's kinda cool
10:38:03 <kamnet> I think the US will eventually get high speed train, just not soon enough. Too many issues between federal, state and local development
10:41:59 *** glevans2 has joined #openttd
10:59:16 *** Pikkaphone has joined #openttd
11:16:01 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
11:21:02 <Alberth> until people stop using aircraft, nah :)
11:23:40 <Alberth> JezK: what electromagnetic force are you talking about, natural electromagnetism?
11:26:38 <JezK> Alberth, just "magentic force" vs "gravity" i guess. I was quoting someone on reddit
11:28:04 <Alberth> you can make a big magnetic field of about 7T just by putting lots of energy in it
11:28:21 <Alberth> sure that will be bigger than natural gravity
11:28:35 <Alberth> but the comparison doesn't make much sense to me
11:29:43 <Alberth> yeah, the gravity around us
11:30:03 <JezK> as in the earth's gravity?
11:30:30 <Alberth> or do you want to compare against artifical gravity?
11:30:50 <JezK> no, just gravity in general
11:30:58 <Alberth> which you can get in any quantity mostly, depending on how much energy you throw at it
11:31:09 <Alberth> what is general gravity?
11:32:56 <Alberth> gravity is a force coming from the body of mass called 'earth' and us (at earth)
11:33:19 <Alberth> gravity at the moon is different
11:33:31 <Alberth> so what is "gravity in general" here?
11:34:33 <Alberth> hmm, to be correct, other bodies of mass also decide gravity, eg sea movement is caused by the moon
11:36:35 <Alberth> I fail to understand what you mean by "gravity in general", and what that 10^-41 is about
11:37:45 <Alberth> I have no doubt you can create a force that much bigger than earth gravity, but it's not comparable I think, without mentioning the amount of power you put into it
11:38:44 <Alberth> if you're talking about artificial magnetism, you're comparing something costing 0 power with something that does cost power
11:41:32 <blathijs> Gravity does cost energy, right? (potential energy)
11:44:24 <blathijs> Alberth: I think the 10^-41 factor is about how much more molecules you need for a bit of gravity than the same bit of electromagnetic force. It's a bit weird though, since I don't think they really compare it in Newtown / molecule, there's probably a differfent (better) metric for that comparison
11:45:57 <Alberth> but what electromagnetic force? afaik "electromagnetic force" is not constant
11:47:08 <Alberth> it's a function of the amount of current you put into it
11:49:15 <Alberth> so I don't see how it is a useful comparison
11:50:41 <blathijs> Alberth: Yeah, that's the weird part
11:54:47 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
12:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so let me get this straight. you're two people that have no clue what they're talking about, and complain that it doesn't make sense?
12:04:29 <Alberth> it seemed to make sense to J3zK and Johnn3i, so I wanted to know how
12:08:12 <Alberth> So far, the discussion confirms my belief the number doesn't mean anything useful
12:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't pretend that i know what it's about, either, but i have seen actual physicists use the phrase "electromagnetism is stronger than gravity"
12:10:41 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
12:11:52 <Johnnei> I won't say I understand the numbers but what I get from it is that you need very little magnetic force to negate gravity to make the train levitate on the rails, as that *10^-41 makes it quite small
12:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that is pure nonsense.
12:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you need exactly the same magnetic force to negate gravitational force
12:13:06 <blathijs> Indeed, you need _exactly_... Yeah, that
12:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> just it's much easier to generate magnetic force
12:13:55 <Johnnei> oh .-. I guess I'm just dumb enough to try and understand it :p
12:14:10 <Johnnei> Anyway, lunch time for me /afk
12:15:14 <blathijs> I guess it might be comparing the gravity of 1 particle compared to the electromagnetic force of 1 unit of charge (which IIRC is usually the charge of 1 particle, too)
12:16:40 <blathijs> So in that sense, a single particle generates a lot more electromagnetic force than gravity. However, normally, positive and negative charges average out, so there's only a little effective electromagnetic charge (until you apply some external influence to get the charges aligned).
12:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the entire field of chemistry is basically about uneven distribution of charges :p
12:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, generally the statement is "strong force > weak force > electromagnetism > gravity"
12:19:45 <__ln__> and also "do not underestimate the power of the Force"
12:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't remember hearing this sentence
12:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i've never seen star wars in english, anyway
12:36:52 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
12:41:16 <Celestar> why can they not deliver that thing with a proper linux installation
12:57:10 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
13:10:02 <Johnnei> I just shouldn't try to make sense out of stuff I don't understand :p
13:10:43 <JezK> no point trying to make sense out of stuff you already understand
13:13:20 <JezK> but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven
13:19:20 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
13:20:53 <Johnnei> I'll just stick to learning about coding :p
13:22:32 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
13:32:19 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4203
13:32:24 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
14:18:45 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd
15:00:12 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
15:43:32 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
16:10:34 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd
16:28:59 *** shirish has joined #openttd
16:32:29 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
16:42:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
16:46:16 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
17:47:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <JezK> but it's okay, the existence of gravity hasn't even been proven <-- you're probably thinking of gravity waves
17:50:16 <Alberth> perhaps about the question whether gravity is not a derived notion of something more fundamental? I remember reading that somewhere
17:50:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:50:53 <Alberth> although technically, that doesn't make gravity non-existent :p
17:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it doesn't. and this "gravity wave" thing is some quantum mechanics stuff, it's not about whether the sun excerts a force on the earth or not
17:52:40 <andythenorth> just invent higher standard of proof
17:52:45 <andythenorth> then everything is unproven
17:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it may have an influence on how the force is transmitted. but not on that it exists
17:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and the usual disclaimer: if you think you understood quantum mechanics, you didn't understand quantum mechanics
17:54:32 <Alberth> I know I don't understand it :p
17:54:47 <Alberth> does that imply I understand it? :D
17:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so :p
18:03:39 * andythenorth thought he understood
18:07:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:15:13 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4221
18:15:19 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
18:26:16 <Markus> i have an ide for the openttd if it is coming a update you can select 4 versions of world but if you add one more select whit all the 4 worlds in one
18:46:15 <Alberth> nah, just failing to understand that IRC doesn't give an answer in 11 minutes
18:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> or sometimes 11 hours :p
18:47:37 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:55:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:59:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:15:27 <andythenorth> same result here
19:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried, but the cat refuses to obey my order to report
19:16:26 <andythenorth> verb-noun problem?
19:16:31 <andythenorth> or lack of functionality?
19:17:43 <andythenorth> or a permissions issue perhaps?
19:18:07 <andythenorth> can you chmod 777?
19:18:16 <andythenorth> also what does chown say about the cat object?
19:18:45 <andythenorth> is the cat malware?
19:19:13 <Alberth> nah, just too complicated to understand
19:19:24 <andythenorth> does stalman understand it?
19:19:29 <TrueBrain> it seems crypted to me
19:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> must be terrorists.
19:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> only terrorists and drug overlords use encryption
19:21:14 <TrueBrain> :( I will ask my boss if I work for either of the two then :D
19:21:26 <TrueBrain> that would be a good conversation ... lolz
19:21:43 <Alberth> assume both, you can't be wrong then :p
19:45:11 *** Klanticus_ has joined #openttd
19:46:54 *** shirish_ has joined #openttd
20:03:45 <andythenorth> A MACRO PER DAY KEEPS THE DOCTOR AWAY
20:04:14 <Alberth> apparently it was important :)
20:09:25 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
20:10:10 *** Celestar1 has joined #openttd
20:16:00 *** Wolfsmaus has joined #openttd
20:16:35 <Vinnie> Wolfsmaus, here they might now more
20:17:04 <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> with the nwe version 1.5 i have begin a new map
20:17:12 <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> but the ai players dont working
20:17:12 <Vinnie> <Wolfsmaus> i have dowenload all thinks
20:17:23 <Vinnie> his question we cant help him with
20:19:07 <Alberth> ie like newgrfs, you not only have to download them, you also have to activate them
20:20:10 <Alberth> also check the number of AI competitors (first image at the page)
20:21:17 <Alberth> another thing is that they start a few years after you
20:21:33 <Alberth> and some do a lot of analysis before starting to build anything
20:21:47 <Alberth> so it can easily be a few years before any activity
20:22:44 <Wolfsmaus> I want to have a AI They are play hard and the can doing all thinks (Fly, Cars, Trains, ...)
20:23:07 <Wolfsmaus> But i dont know witch AI is indeed and witch script i need. And the Settig of them one AI player
20:23:31 <Wolfsmaus> i have setting to start 1 day after me
20:24:01 <Wolfsmaus> and i have play with speed 70 Years but nothing
20:24:35 <Wolfsmaus> and when he comes then i have a big red error screen
20:25:44 <Wolfsmaus> ok thanks now my first problem i clear XD
20:25:49 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
20:27:00 <Alberth> I never play with AI, so I don't really know.
20:27:10 <Alberth> you may want to ask at the forum
20:27:44 <Alberth> but yeah, some are quite buggy, and they crash with a grey screen with red text
20:28:15 <Alberth> you can report such errors by taking a screen shot of that window, and posting it at the right thread
20:28:45 <Alberth> but some authors have stopped developing the AI
20:29:12 <Alberth> I suggest you avoid AIs that crash a lot
20:29:30 <Wolfsmaus> k thank you. i try a littel bit with the new information. i hope i can clear this and when not i take a screenshot
20:30:12 <Alberth> AIs are never very good compared to human players
20:30:40 <Alberth> if you like competition, maybe you should try playing online at a server some time
20:30:47 <Wolfsmaus> yes but i have no frends to play with me this game XD
20:31:41 <Vinnie> make friends online :D
20:31:42 <Alberth> you can try for example public openttdcoop server
20:31:54 <Vinnie> reddit is nice with lots of people
20:32:06 <Vinnie> BT pro has goals + little bit less people online
20:32:28 <Vinnie> then there is the gamepark CZ servers that is pretty active
20:32:34 <Vinnie> then comes openttdcoop
20:32:54 <Alberth> I never play online, so cannot help you there
20:32:59 <Vinnie> my order was more in active servers with nice people
20:33:33 <Wolfsmaus> ok now i will do this
20:34:08 <Vinnie> other servers have nice people aswell, but not the activity or settings i like
20:34:08 <Wolfsmaus> Wolf01 goes play online
20:34:18 <Vinnie> 90% still use original acceleration
20:35:22 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
20:38:08 <Wolfsmaus> ok bye bye and have fun
20:38:13 *** Celestar1 has joined #openttd
20:38:34 *** Wolfsmaus has left #openttd
20:42:40 *** Celestar2 has joined #openttd
20:48:46 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
20:55:02 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
20:57:26 *** Celestar1 has joined #openttd
21:20:40 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
21:35:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
22:39:53 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
22:40:21 *** Klanticus has joined #openttd
23:05:47 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
23:19:46 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest4260
23:19:50 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵