IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-05-03
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00:00:18 <Supercheese> many station sets offer good tiles for that, but I have the itch to add some of my own
00:00:24 <frosch123> ok, i hate doing that :p
00:00:28 <frosch123> i love feeder services
00:00:44 <frosch123> and trams delivering stuff to the rail stations
00:00:50 <frosch123> or, busses in case of passengers
00:02:35 <frosch123> [23:49] <Supercheese> and if the code is actually human-readable unlike raw NFO that would be nice <- it's based on a macro processor, i would expect that it has about zero error messages and validity checks
00:02:49 <frosch123> if something fails to compile, you will just have to stare at the code
00:03:52 <frosch123> anyway, if you try it, please report back :) because, as said, noone knows anything about it :)
00:04:23 *** DanMacK has joined #openttd
00:05:11 <frosch123> you were here before, weren't you :p
00:05:32 <mczapkie> Hello, DanMack. I just put some snow on your logging camp :)
00:05:37 <DanMacK> What are you talking about? Never been here in my life... lol
00:24:49 <mczapkie> Does anybody know, how to change account data on flyspray? There is "data from central management system" info, but central management system is under construction permanently
00:26:37 <frosch123> afaik there is only recover password
00:26:43 <frosch123> but no way to change email or name or anything
00:26:54 <Supercheese> I don't recall there being a tutorial last I checked
00:49:22 <Supercheese> ugh, my OS won't recognize any updates to its system path variable
00:49:31 <Supercheese> bloody thing probably wants a restart
00:50:27 <michi_cc> If OS means linux/bash or so, try rehash instead.
00:51:02 <michi_cc> Or actually just hash, it seems bash it the odd one out here :p
00:51:25 <michi_cc> Then you just need to open a new command window.
00:52:58 <Supercheese> Yeah, not working
00:53:07 <Supercheese> something somewhere is going horribly wrong
00:54:48 <Supercheese> the path variable is correct in the registry, but new command windows do not recognize it
00:55:03 <Supercheese> they are evidently loading some older version of the var
01:01:53 <kamnet> The Run for the Roses is over.
01:02:22 <Supercheese> yeah Windows demands a reboot to reload system variables... bleh
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01:05:00 <kamnet> If running Window, when we say rehash, we mean by using a chainsaw.
02:19:44 <luaduck> is there a reason why we don't have a cvar for disabling road reconstruction?
02:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> is "we have too many settings" enough?
02:37:06 <Supercheese> more like "way too damn many settings, especially if you include the .cfg-only settings; but hey users do love their settings"
02:39:16 <glx> cfg only are modifiable in console :)
02:47:09 <Supercheese> or, well, by editing the .cfg in your text editor of choice
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03:46:25 <Flygon> Having the Road Reconstruction thing exist is pretty frustrating
03:48:44 <DarkenMoon> It's annoying when people new to the game use it, thinking it helps cities grow. So they keep using it over and over, spamming the news ticker.
03:52:02 <Flygon> If we're that terrified over the whole settings thing
03:52:10 <Flygon> Make it a variable adjustable by NewGRF
03:52:41 <Flygon> So that NewGRFs can add the setting inside the NewGRF settings for what happens if you click "Road Reconstruction"
03:52:47 <Flygon> Or if the Road Recon. setting even exists
03:53:00 <Flygon> Because clearly the solution to the Too Many Settings problem
03:53:11 <Flygon> Is to create more convoluted ways to access the settings
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04:17:02 <DarkenMoon> You can never have enough settings.
04:17:19 <DarkenMoon> The more customization the better/
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05:35:47 <TartarusMkII> Hi guys, wanted to know if anyone could direct me to any screen shots of nice rail layouts? Just for inspiration? <
05:43:55 <TartarusMkII> These are replays?
05:45:09 <TartarusMkII> oh wow that's very cool to see
05:45:31 <TartarusMkII> I love the 'elevated' rail through the middle like that too haha
05:46:28 <TartarusMkII> oh that looks gorgeous!
05:49:48 <TartarusMkII> What are the box like things extending from the city out over the tracks?
05:50:18 <TartarusMkII> They look like walk ways for passengers, but how do they work in OTTD?
05:50:35 <TartarusMkII> And thanks again for these, fantastic
05:50:39 <Flygon> They're part of a custom GRF
05:50:46 <Flygon> I wish I completed any of these games
05:50:48 <TartarusMkII> I figured they were, but I am curious
05:51:59 <Flygon> Oh wow, my Dropbox has some really random junk
05:53:41 <TartarusMkII> What I am trying to figure out is the most (basic) efficient way to set up stations to pick up materials and then have them join a double (two way) rail line to a place to drop it off. Like, a bunch of iron ore to a foundry for example.
05:54:00 <TartarusMkII> I want the stations that collect the ore to basically join the artery, and not have to be a part of it directly.
05:54:12 <TartarusMkII> I know I have to use a tunnel or bridge to cross over, but I'm having trouble designing it for some reason lol
05:55:28 <TartarusMkII> Yea I am still a newbling
05:55:33 <Flygon> You just build a bridge over
05:56:06 <TartarusMkII> Also looking for the most efficint way to build the station and its buffer
05:56:42 <TartarusMkII> Doesn't that only work with cars anyway
05:56:59 <TartarusMkII> Hmm, but why do you suggest not doing a clover leaf?
05:57:09 <Flygon> Because I drew it really badly
05:57:23 <TartarusMkII> oh it looks fine!
05:57:28 <TartarusMkII> Just trying to understand the part in the upper right
05:57:55 <Flygon> For an efficient station
05:58:02 <Flygon> Do you know what roll on, roll out is?
05:58:32 <TartarusMkII> Yea that's usually what I do, but still looking for an ideal amount of tracks, length, and the position of everything.
05:58:44 <TartarusMkII> oh this is great thanks
05:58:56 <Flygon> RoRo is the best you really can get
05:59:11 <Flygon> One track flowing into 2 platforms, and then merging back into one track
05:59:20 <Flygon> There's obvious extensions to this
05:59:33 <Flygon> But the basic philosophy doesn't chage
06:00:36 <TartarusMkII> Does your mod for stations add, or replace stations?
06:01:04 <TartarusMkII> I am using a bunch of openGFX+ things, but no station, also that industry one.. er.. let me look.
06:01:30 <TartarusMkII> Do you recall what you're using for stations? looks so kewl.
06:01:47 <TartarusMkII> oh thats a good pic.
06:01:51 <Flygon> Dutch Stations (and addons)
06:02:30 <TartarusMkII> I'm using FIRS industry, NUTS unrealistic trains (still unsure if I like it) and then OpenGFX+ trees, airports, landscape, and trains for the hell of it.
06:02:48 <TartarusMkII> Would you care to suggest an OpenGFX+ train set? I'm interested in balance mostly.
06:03:18 <Flygon> I use the 2CC Trainset
06:04:06 <TartarusMkII> What is it like? Also, why did you lay out roads that way? To cities sprawl out along your specifications? The wiki makes it sound as if, if you don't make roads exactly how they would plan to, they just don't continue?
06:05:25 <Flygon> I lay them that way because it's easier for me
06:05:31 <Flygon> I disable towns growing their roads normally
06:05:37 <Flygon> It'd be neat to do a 16 player OTTD game of that USA map
06:05:43 <TartarusMkII> nice windows95 theme lol
06:05:45 <Flygon> With additional towns put in
06:06:00 <Flygon> Where one of the 16 players essentially acts as the Federal Government
06:06:06 <Flygon> So that guy builds the roads :B
06:06:12 <TartarusMkII> haha that's a cool idea
06:06:22 <TartarusMkII> so if they don't build their own roads, how do they expand? do they depend on you?
06:06:46 <Flygon> Well... think of it this way
06:06:52 <Flygon> Government guy has Magic Bulldozer powers
06:06:52 <TartarusMkII> haha precarious as hell
06:07:12 <Flygon> I didn't get much further on my idea than that
06:08:29 <TartarusMkII> but even in the normal game, if you disable towns building their own roads, how d'they expand?
06:09:32 <TartarusMkII> that's interesting
06:09:38 <Flygon> I'd love a USA scenario, actually
06:09:49 <TartarusMkII> so in theory then, even if they can build their own roads, if you add onto them, they will expand buildings outwards normally?
06:09:53 <Flygon> That basically starts from when the countries were colonized by the Europeans
06:10:19 <Flygon> And,... yeah, But the big issue with such a scenario is the lack of ability for scenario scripts to found towns
06:10:28 <Flygon> Also the lack of pre-1700 NewGRFs
06:11:36 <TartarusMkII> I'd make a futuristic set, as if corporations are settling a new island created from a volcano or some such. Planes could be sci fi and serve different purposes, helis too, all sorts of weird stuf like that.
06:11:41 <kamnet> Nobody watching the fight of the century?
06:12:01 <TartarusMkII> Don't you have to pay to see it? or nah?>
06:12:50 <kamnet> Well in theory, you do.
06:13:30 <kamnet> However, I have a very strict policy of never paying for anything that Floyd Mayweather, Jr. does.
06:14:36 <Flygon> I'm actually a Flygon irl
06:14:52 * Supercheese uses a Master Ball. Flygon was caught!
06:14:53 <Flygon> They tried to get me to join fighting
06:14:53 <kamnet> I will pay to see fighters. I will never pay to see a coward who beats women.
06:14:57 <Flygon> But I'm too peaceful for that stuff
06:15:09 <Flygon> And now I can't be recaught
06:15:16 <Flygon> And then I ate the Pokeball
06:15:31 * Supercheese edits his savegame with pokesav
06:16:33 <Supercheese> reminds me of that one whiscash, ate the damn master ball
06:16:54 <Supercheese> where did that random dude get a master ball anyhow
06:17:04 <Flygon> Oh, he won it in the lottery
06:17:48 <Supercheese> wow, on in a billion chance
06:18:26 <TartarusMkII> I'm not sure if I am looking at the right"2cc" set.
06:18:31 <TartarusMkII> Is it TrainsInNML?
06:18:38 <TartarusMkII> And anyone else have reccomendations for train sets?
06:19:46 <Supercheese> UKRS also has an addon set
06:20:45 <TartarusMkII> How's the balance on UKRS?
06:20:46 <TartarusMkII> oh, and is it OpenGFX+?
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06:27:39 <TartarusMkII> No Russian city names!
06:29:32 <Supercheese> There's a newgrf for that on Bananas
06:30:46 <Supercheese> Online Content service
06:30:54 <Supercheese> Newgrf options -> Check online content
06:31:08 <Supercheese> use the search box and put in "Russian"
06:31:51 <TartarusMkII> oh, it's named Bananas? lol
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06:37:02 <Supercheese> "Base graphics/sound And Newgrfs And Noais And Scenarios"
06:37:11 <Supercheese> terribly contribed, but most cool acronyms are
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06:38:07 <TartarusMkII> Tloo-Zaraza's Russian Town Names contains over 3,000 names? But the unsigned Belarusian has 206. I wonder why? XD
06:55:43 <TartarusMkII> A good deal of the mods I downloaded simply do not work, or have nullified parameters
06:56:10 <Supercheese> A couple are outdated and broken
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06:56:25 <Supercheese> but most should be functional
06:57:04 <TartarusMkII> Well for example, the Russian Town Names NewGRF does not have any parameters to set, and it doesn't seem to change anything..
06:57:16 <TartarusMkII> It seems simply benign. It carries no instructions, or a forum thread 'r anything..
06:57:45 <TartarusMkII> and I was wrong about what I said before, this little GRF is the only one that does not seem to work
07:04:06 <kamnet> Town Name sets work by first loading the NewGRF before you start the game, and then going into Game Settings and selecting the language. The NewGRF will always be the very first entry, above the "---" and the rest of the languages underneath the bar
07:04:55 <Supercheese> Load the town name grf, then go to Game Options and set the town names there, then generate a new game
07:07:04 <TartarusMkII> Hm, I don't see that.. Do I have to be in a game first?..
07:07:41 <TartarusMkII> Let me restart the game, maybe
07:08:10 <kamnet> I just loaded it, in Game Options you will have a choice of "Russian (Real and Generated, Cyrillic)", "Russian (real, Cyrillic)" and "Russian (real, Latin)"
07:08:15 <TartarusMkII> Nah.. in my NewGRF settings, this mod is included in the list of active NewGRFs
07:08:48 <TartarusMkII> Oh okay now it works, it took a restart and viewing the newGRF settings. Thanks!
07:09:04 <kamnet> You have to load it in active newgrfs first from the main menu, then load which version you want from game options
07:09:33 <TartarusMkII> Ah damn, the city names are just all ???'s.
07:09:44 <Supercheese> need to set a Cyrillic font probably
07:09:48 <TartarusMkII> How am I to know what font I need? I already know I can see Cyrillic on this PC..
07:10:11 <TartarusMkII> Is that to say the whole game needs to be set to RU?
07:10:14 <Supercheese> probably <YourUsername>\Documents\Openttd\openttd.cfg if you are on Windows
07:10:23 <Supercheese> that will have your font options
07:10:35 <Supercheese> be sure to close the game first before opening that file
07:10:54 <TartarusMkII> That's not the issue. I went back to Game Options, and the Town Names is (Undefined String)
07:11:04 <TartarusMkII> Like, the RU names as a NewGRF is not 'staying'
07:12:59 <TartarusMkII> I moved it up in the list, but it still does not work.
07:13:13 <TartarusMkII> Going back, it is undefined again.
07:21:00 <kamnet> are you loading the newgrf from the main menu, or within the game?
07:23:26 <kamnet> Okay, I can verify the issues
07:23:48 <TartarusMkII> I'm trying some other similar GRFs too
07:24:03 <kamnet> Cyrillic is loading ???, Latin works. But if you quit the game and start a new one, it goes all wonky again and Game Options changes to "Undefined"
07:24:23 <kamnet> Going back into newgrf settings, saving the configuration again, and then going back into Game Options restores it
07:24:34 <kamnet> I'm guessing the NewGRF is broken.
07:24:46 <TartarusMkII> Makes sense, thanks for double checking.
07:25:46 <TartarusMkII> I can't read full on Russian, so my game's localization must stay in Eng
07:25:51 <TartarusMkII> if that matters =v
07:25:57 <kamnet> Okay then you'll want to select Latin
07:26:00 <TartarusMkII> Also, how do I delete NewGRFs?
07:26:13 <TartarusMkII> But doesn't it still reset when you go in and out of the game?
07:26:43 <TartarusMkII> the Ukranian one does not work either, I have a feeling it has to do with fonts and not the GRFs
07:26:50 <kamnet> Yes. But my solution fixes it.
07:27:20 <TartarusMkII> I notice it's losing all of the town names, not just the one that didn't work.. let me try your solution.
07:28:55 <kamnet> You're right, it is doing that on all town name newgrfs
07:29:45 <TartarusMkII> I think some of these -are- old, though. Err, if not all of them..
07:31:29 <kamnet> It's doing it with new town names that I've made straight from NML's town names template.
07:31:53 <kamnet> I don't think it's the NewGRFs, unless the spec has changed and they're all missing somethign now.
07:32:08 <TartarusMkII> By the way, what is a reasonable max map height?
07:32:23 <TartarusMkII> I've read that snow is supposed to form at heights, but i never see it..
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07:59:24 <kamnet> I set mine at 255. You can set snow line height to whatever you like.
08:00:25 <Flygon> I do kinda wish we had heightmaps for water
08:00:40 <Flygon> 127 is the 'ground level' height
08:00:46 <TartarusMkII> oddly for me snow is greyed out at 15 and I never see it.
08:00:52 <Flygon> And there's no 'river/lake' tiles, and no 'ocean' tiles
08:01:07 <Flygon> And the tiles below the water can have different heights
08:01:20 <Flygon> In effect, allowing for a far more interesting water geography
08:01:36 <Flygon> And also making ships fitting certain depths only be a thing
08:02:56 <Flygon> Please someone tell me I'm not insane x.x
08:03:02 <Flygon> Because I think this idea is utterly brilliant
08:03:16 <Flygon> It would need a completely new method of rendering water tho
08:03:58 <kamnet> If it's greyed out, then you must be on temperate and not arctic
08:05:17 <kamnet> The only thing water depth would really affect is placement of oil rigs, though. They probably shouldn't be in shallow water. but that's probably a case of TMWFTLE
08:06:01 <Flygon> While water depth wouldn't seem all that useful with the current sets of... everything
08:06:17 <Flygon> It does allow for a much more interesting future with content developed
08:06:30 <Flygon> And kinda help solve the problem of rivers being different to ocean
08:06:43 <Flygon> (because, y'know. They'd be the same type of tile instead of two seperate types)
08:07:09 <Flygon> It'd also allow for diagonal rivers, like how current oceans work
08:08:57 <Flygon> And, most interestingly
08:09:03 <Flygon> It'd allow for much more interesting looking water
08:09:15 <Flygon> Imagine a map of Hawaii
08:09:30 <Flygon> There's underwater mountains!
08:09:38 <Flygon> Imagine the visual feast of seeing that represented in OpenTTD
08:10:02 <Flygon> I can't imagine it being too hard...
08:10:07 <Flygon> A transparent textured tile...
08:10:24 <Flygon> Each height level below where water is set to be for a certain level going darker and darker as you get deeper...
08:10:51 <kamnet> Rivers should be a different type of water than ocean
08:11:55 <kamnet> rivers are narrow channels that are constantly moving. ocean is deeper and moves more slowly, can evn be stagnant.
08:13:09 <kamnet> There's nothing to really be gained from an underwater level, though. other than gas/oill deposits and fishing, theres no mining or other type of industry to be done. there's no underwater cities either.
08:13:28 <kamnet> Yeah, looks really interesting, but tha's about it.
08:18:48 <kamnet> I think the town names thing is a bug in 1.5.0. Just downloaded r27264 and it works normally
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08:19:21 <Flygon> There's two ways you can tackle it
08:19:32 <Flygon> One being river tile, one being ocean tyle
08:19:51 <kamnet> Good morning Alberth. Just disccussing a bug in 1.5.0 that looks like is already fixed.
08:19:53 <Flygon> Or you can implement a dynamically calcuated water system feature into OpenTTD
08:20:04 <Flygon> I suspect the former would be significantly less work and significantly more sane
08:20:13 <Flygon> But I still think it would be very useful for ship GRFs
08:20:18 <Alberth> k, those are the best kind of bugs
08:20:28 <Flygon> eg. gigantuan oil tankers needing a spare depth below them of 3 height levels or someting
08:21:04 <Alberth> euhm, squid and fish make such a difference
08:21:06 <kamnet> Dunno how significant it is, though, if it warrants rolling out 1.5.1 already
08:21:57 <kamnet> certain FISH ships have reduced speeds on different waters
08:23:06 <Flygon> Total incapability of running an oil tanker over a sandbar
08:23:40 <Alberth> you don't need 127 height levels for that imho
08:24:05 <Flygon> Okay, let's completely rethink this
08:24:10 <Flygon> A map has 255 height levels
08:24:14 <Flygon> Independant of both land and water
08:24:30 <Flygon> Ocean style water can occour at 32 tiles high
08:24:39 <Flygon> And flow down tiles like a river
08:24:56 <Flygon> Let's think of this creatively...
08:25:08 <Flygon> Say a player wanted to make an artificial lake for some reason
08:25:17 <Alberth> why waste 74 levels? you only want to differentiate 2-3 classes
08:25:55 <Flygon> Then uses a tool to autofill to a maximum height on the z axis with water
08:26:28 <Flygon> It also feels like a method of creating more flexible rivers, too
08:26:43 <Flygon> Rather than them being stored internally as taking up an entire tile
08:26:49 <Flygon> They can functionally take half a tile
08:26:57 <Flygon> With, say, a railway track taking the other half
08:27:20 <Flygon> This means there would be no more ocean at the lowest height level
08:27:26 <Flygon> This means water can occour at any height level
08:27:51 <Flygon> And be far more malleable than the current way water works
08:28:04 <Flygon> eg. the creation of far more natural looking lakes
08:28:17 <kamnet> Summary of discussion a few misn ago, I know it's not your area but just FYI
08:28:28 <Flygon> And the possible gameplay additional too by future GRF developers
08:34:53 <Alberth> I don't see a particular commit that could fix that kamnet, so I must be missing something, most likely
08:36:05 <Alberth> you could try bisecting to the fix, if you want to know
08:37:53 <Alberth> Flygon: sounds mostly like an extension of the scenario editor
08:38:14 <Flygon> I was thinking world generation too
08:38:29 <Flygon> And, amongst other interesting things
08:38:46 <Flygon> It could allow land tiles to be at the exact same height level as oceans
08:38:59 <Flygon> Without workarounds that involve using river/channel tiles
08:39:32 <Flygon> And, more interestingly
08:39:37 <Flygon> Allow tiles to go below the ocean
08:39:44 <Alberth> isn't that just about flooding?
08:39:45 <Flygon> eg. an actual proper chunnel going on
08:40:02 <Flygon> Because the ocean is no longer fixed at being the lowest height level possible
08:40:49 <Flygon> It's more... flooding wouldn't 'need' to be a feature, because each tile is able to be defined if it's got water in it or not
08:41:27 <Flygon> I'm not saying that this sort of thing would need to be applied retroactively to older savegames
08:41:54 <Flygon> I'm saying that it could be a very very interesting feature for newer savegames, should the player choose to play a game with such alternate water mechanics
08:42:04 <Alberth> the main reason why water is at the bottom is because that's how world are generated
08:42:39 <Alberth> Flygon: you cannot have 2 forms of water, the old form must be convertable to the new form
08:43:26 <Flygon> So there's no possible method of adding a flag to the savegame that says "Uses 'Standard' Water" or "Uses 'Enhanced' Water"?
08:43:52 <Alberth> so what's basically missing, is a way to express you want water at other tiles than at level 0
08:44:16 <Alberth> the flag is not the problem, the mechanics of handling both cases is the problem
08:44:30 <Alberth> it doubles maintenance effort
08:45:07 <Alberth> code is changing all the time, new features must work in both forms, etc
08:45:16 <Flygon> I'm guessing this's going to end up in the "It'd be neat to have, but nobody's going to want to touch it with a barge pole" pile, isn't it
08:45:39 <Flygon> Despite it's ability to sort out a lot of gameplay concerns (eg. underwater tunnels)
08:46:16 <Alberth> you need someone who is interested in the problem sufficiently to spend 5 years on it, or so
08:46:47 <Flygon> Unless I win the lottery and donate $100,000AUD, I presume
08:47:30 <Flygon> How much bribery would be required?
08:47:39 <Alberth> unlike what many people think, money is not solving the problem
08:47:41 <Flygon> I mean, if bribery is a game function?... :B
08:47:54 <Flygon> Lack of motivated workforce?
08:47:59 <Alberth> say you have 100,000 what then?
08:48:10 <kamnet> $20,000/year isn't really enough to buy somebody's time.
08:48:16 <Flygon> But I don't really wanna buy a fancy car <_>
08:48:26 <Flygon> kemnet: It is if they're Indian!
08:48:29 <Flygon> srsly tho, point taken
08:48:48 <Flygon> Sorry if I've been annoying x.x
08:48:53 <Flygon> It's just that, in the end
08:49:07 <Flygon> OpenTTD lacking water working 'properly' in a 3D space has bugged me for years
08:49:09 <kamnet> Oh, well, if you want to hire a programmer from India... :D
08:49:28 <Flygon> I know how terrible Indian programmers tend to be
08:50:11 <Alberth> the bottom line is that you need a skilled programmer interested in solving the problem
08:50:40 <supermop> i will add any feature you want for the low price of: 4 years of tuition for a CS Bachelors program plus living stipend, plus market rate of C++ dev in NYC +10% for as many years as it takes to add the feature
08:50:42 <kamnet> Now maybe if you gave that money to a budding programmer who is in college, that money could be significant.
08:50:56 <Alberth> and 'skilled' isn't even that interesting, as long as the person wants to learn
08:51:39 <Alberth> in my view, open source is a large play garden where people learn things
08:51:57 <Alberth> but you need time and dedication for something of that scale
08:52:07 <Flygon> I did once try to pick up the art of coding
08:52:27 <kamnet> Seriously though, if I ever hit the lotto for a huge, life-changing prize, I'd very seriously consider giving some to the devs simply to thank them.
08:52:40 <Flygon> It says measures as to how terrible I am that not only did I find disassembling 68k programs less confusing than descipering Java (yet I still came out near the top of the Java class...)
08:52:47 <Flygon> That my Avisynth scripts somehow caused flamewars
08:52:54 <Flygon> Due to my programming practices
08:53:58 <Alberth> assembly language programming does have its merits :)
08:54:16 <Flygon> Yeah. For one thing, it's easier to desciper than Java
08:54:48 <Alberth> I guess you can read NFO?
08:55:21 <Flygon> If I wasn't lazy, I probably would or something
08:55:22 <Alberth> I tried that a few times, and fail hopelessly :(
08:55:36 <Flygon> I'd love to see more early Australian locos in the 2CC set... but that also means I'd need to be a good artist
08:55:53 <Flygon> Because I got this book of Australian locos from the 1850s through to the 1990
08:56:08 <Flygon> And it documents every single Australian loco design ever <_>
08:56:13 <Alberth> I believe you can all do that, but you don't learn stuff like that in a few months
08:56:13 <Flygon> At least, of which was known in 1995
08:56:17 <Flygon> Inc. all the technical details
08:56:22 <kamnet> I've studied and forgotten NFO three ties now.
08:56:36 <Flygon> kamnet: Just like me and 68k :D
08:56:50 <Alberth> you probably need to use it everyday kamnet :)
08:56:58 <Flygon> Friend of mine tried to teach me how to 68k by helping disassemble part of Shining Force
08:57:09 <Flygon> Specifically, the subroutine that handles level-ups
08:57:23 <kamnet> Indeed, Alberth. I know it while I'm doing it every day, but life gets buys and I have to set it aside and I forget it after a few months.
08:57:40 <Flygon> The guy that was tutoring me had disassembled a significant part of Shining Force II, and assumed the level up routine code for the first game in the series worked the same way (same engine)
08:58:05 <Flygon> It didn't. So we spent 3-4 hours trying to figure out why I kept giving wrong answers to shit, until it turned out Climax/Camelot's programmers are just utterly insane
08:58:28 <Flygon> We were trying to find the function that limits the level caps of characters in the game
08:59:05 <Flygon> Shining Force II (for promoted charactes... won't get into that, so, we'll keep the story simple) did this sanely, by having a single byte for the game to reference when levelling up
08:59:52 <Flygon> The byte was set to 63 (Hex, 99 Dec), and the subroutine basically went "IF the character hits 100 experience points, but is the level of the byte set here, don't display the level up message, don't change the level, and roll the experience back down to 0"
09:00:30 <Flygon> Lemme find my hacking notes, because... the way Shining Force I's level routine worked did this in an insane, stupid, way that required referencing 3 seperate bytes that were all set to the same number
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09:03:09 <Flygon> This's going to be VERY hard to explain
09:03:22 <Flygon> There's three bytes, the three of them set to 63 (99)
09:03:46 <Flygon> The subroutine has three seperate functions inside it, each checking a seperate byte
09:04:09 <Flygon> One part of the subroutine is to check what level to stop displaying the "x has leveled up!" message
09:04:26 <Flygon> Another part of the subroutine set the level cap, also checking a seperate byte
09:04:34 <Flygon> And the third part, to make this a complete clusterfuck
09:05:20 <Flygon> Is what level the character hits to start advancing to the level cap
09:05:27 <Flygon> The game checks if the character is already 99
09:05:33 <Flygon> So if the character is 99
09:05:50 <Flygon> It checks a seperate byte to see what level the character should advance to if the character is level 99
09:05:54 <Flygon> Which is... of course, 99
09:06:04 <Flygon> So not only does the character advance to level 99 from 99
09:06:17 <Flygon> But... well... it's just incredibly stupid
09:06:53 <Alberth> sounds like your average OO design :)
09:06:55 <Flygon> But, yeah. It really tripped up my tutor, hahhaa
09:07:30 <Alberth> giving everything its own data, and doing its own thing
09:07:46 <Flygon> Yeah, this is in 1991-1992, mind
09:07:57 <Flygon> The sequel came out around 1993-1994... they cleaned up a lot of shit
09:08:13 <Flygon> In part because they had to cram the hell out of the cart's capacity. Lots of things needed optimizing
09:08:24 <Flygon> And yet, continuing in part with the series's idiosyncratic design processes
09:08:34 <Flygon> They still used large PCM samples for the drums instead of FM instruments <_>
09:08:48 <Flygon> (drums being one of the easier instruments to make sound good in FM)
09:10:08 <Alberth> people don't optimize the program, they optimize time and money for the project
09:10:21 <Flygon> That was the money aspect
09:10:50 <Flygon> It was cheaper to tighten up the program (eg. compression, other misc. things) than to go up from a 2mbyte cartridge to a 3mbyte cartridge
09:11:18 <Flygon> Noting that, on the Mega Drive/Genesis, cartridges needed a mapper to allow SRAM use if they were larger than 2 megabytes
09:11:25 <Flygon> Which kinda adds a fair bit of $$$ to the cost
09:11:34 <Alberth> replacing samples would mean new recording costs, etc
09:12:21 <Flygon> Alberth, it's FM synth
09:12:24 <Flygon> There's no recording anything :3
09:12:30 <Alberth> although it may have been better to create space that way, so you don't have to mess with a lot of smaller optimizations
09:12:42 <Flygon> You simply take a preexisting FM patch, and adjust it a bit for your needs
09:13:16 <Alberth> k, but you need to have that knowledge available at the table where the decisions are made :)
09:13:46 <Flygon> Most devs, both Asian and American, seemed to insist on sampled Percussion for whatever reason... I don't know why
09:13:55 <Flygon> Most European devs used FM percussion for the space savings
09:15:16 <Flygon> The Mega Drive/Genesis is basically the last 'chiptune' console :D
09:15:29 <Alberth> I once hacked in micropolis (original simcity), and found they had "yes votes" and a "no votes" byte for voting, which of course always sums up to 100, so I took one byte out. Then the other dev commented, hmm, yeah, we tried to optimize on space, but missed that one :p
09:16:12 <Flygon> Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened to the first Shining Force
09:16:24 <Flygon> They just hacked the function in a rush and never remembered to fix it
09:18:37 <Flygon> I really should get a goahead on that Shining Force hack somepoint
09:18:49 <Flygon> I got the idea in my head, for the lulz
09:18:56 <Flygon> Just to confuse the fuck out of the community
09:19:04 <Flygon> Only real hard bit would be art assets for overworld sprites
09:19:35 <Flygon> Music hacking is a pain in the ass
09:19:49 <Flygon> And replacing the sound driver to make things more flexible is just too much of a hassle
09:20:13 <Flygon> And there's no split disassembly. I hate doing everything in hex. It makes things so much harder to fix when they break >_>
09:21:34 <Flygon> The entire "The Adventures of Batman and Robin" game, by the way...
09:21:39 <Flygon> The Mega Drive version
09:21:49 <Flygon> IS pretty much utterly insanely programmed...
09:22:11 <Flygon> You wouldn't think what's basically a PC from 1987-1988 would be able to do half the shit it does x.x
09:23:11 <Alberth> it's amazing what you can do if you take great care in programming it
09:23:55 <Alberth> it's just that most code is very sloppy, as it saves money in making it
09:24:36 <Alberth> especially older code which gets used and reused and reused, with extra layers of crap around it to make it all work
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09:25:40 <Alberth> the only reason why that tactic works is because computers are getter faster all the time
09:27:13 <Flygon> Sorry, thought to my head about how things sorta stalled by the time the PS360 happened
09:28:58 <Alberth> ha, I always like people posting height maps, totally black images :p
09:49:14 <Supercheese> Pretty sure that one kamnet posted isn't entirely black
09:50:32 <kamnet> Nope, RGB colors 010101 through 202020
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10:18:55 <Flygon> Either I've got a very good monitor
10:19:03 <Flygon> Or I can see each individual step between levels
10:19:35 <Flygon> The levels are so close together
10:19:40 <Flygon> That while I can tell individual steps apart
10:20:19 <Flygon> I can also tell my monitor is probably an 18-bit panel (6-bits per channel) and using either dithering or rapid flashing between colours to try and simulate the 192 missing colours per channel
10:20:23 <Flygon> Because some of the steps look off
10:20:43 <supermop> just cracked open an awesome TO OL / Boatrocker collaboration
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10:39:59 <supermop> i wonder if i start thanking companies for free stuff on instagram if they will actually start sending me free stuff
10:41:43 <supermop> i want to try at least 50 more kiwi and oz beers before i leave - it would help if i could trick craft breweries into giving me free samples
10:41:48 <andythenorth> what am I doing here?
10:42:03 <supermop> not drinking free beer
10:42:07 <andythenorth> haven’t seen any
10:42:19 <TrueBrain> now whos mistake is that!
10:45:36 <TrueBrain> someone has a highlight on the word beer ;)
10:45:38 <andythenorth> what time is it?
10:45:56 <andythenorth> feels earlier somehow
10:45:57 <TrueBrain> what is this pm you talk about?
10:46:41 <andythenorth> all of you have the wrong time
10:46:46 <andythenorth> what are you talking about?
10:46:54 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 0846z?
10:47:40 <TrueBrain> woh is zulu, and why is he not on a spaceship?
10:48:46 * andythenorth wonders if frosch stayed up all night
10:48:53 <andythenorth> raising industry limit to 255
10:49:18 <TrueBrain> did he put a ring on it?
10:49:43 <Flygon> Last I checked, supermop was straight
10:49:57 <TrueBrain> do you check often?
10:50:03 <TrueBrain> *this conversation is going the wrong way* :D
10:50:19 <Flygon> I don't go to #openttd to find gay men
10:50:28 <Flygon> I have other IRC channels for that
10:51:49 <supermop> unfortunately one cannot go to IRC for free beer
10:54:20 <supermop> Pikka: what beer they have up there beyond 4x?
10:54:31 <supermop> anything i should try before a split
10:54:42 <Pikka> nothing local worth speaking of
10:55:07 <supermop> i've never had xxxx actually should try it at some point
10:55:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: so how will you use 255 industries in Pineapplez? o_O
10:56:01 <Supercheese> a plantation for every different type of fruit
10:56:19 <supermop> each tai house a unique industry
10:56:51 <Pikka> making "special" houses industries could be an option, but I'd want them to be buldozable
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11:03:10 <Pikka> any busthoughts, andythenorth?
11:04:50 <andythenorth> I like the render
11:05:30 <andythenorth> I tried to keep the bus/coach distinction out of Road Hog
11:05:49 <andythenorth> but I think there’s something in it
11:06:40 <andythenorth> Pikka: what thoughts do you require? o_O
11:06:40 <supermop> huh, rh has coaches i though?
11:07:30 <andythenorth> also 1920-2020, 4 buses, 4 coaches
11:09:03 <andythenorth> also, hobbled buses / trams are pointless
11:09:11 <andythenorth> too slow / too small = tedious
11:09:14 <andythenorth> it’s not a history lesson
11:10:00 <andythenorth> < 25 pax, < 25 mph
11:10:29 <Pikka> my first tram is 1870, 25mph, 30 cap
11:11:01 <Pikka> first coach 1905, 40, 20 :)
11:11:11 <andythenorth> sounds about right
11:12:21 <Flygon> IS it possible to somehow increase the 65k road vehicle cap for games?
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11:22:10 <TrueBrain> but would you want to, is the question :D
11:24:48 <Flygon> I wanna run more than 5k vehicles per company
11:24:59 <Flygon> And Long Distance coaches
11:26:38 <kamnet> 5000 vehicles * 15 companies = 75000 vehicles.
11:27:20 <kamnet> have you ever really hit the 5k limit?
11:27:36 <Flygon> Wait, I thought the cap was 65536 per game?
11:27:52 <Flygon> And the fact I tend to hit 1,500 rvs before 1945 is a concern
11:28:07 <Flygon> Given I tend to take advantage of road coaches by the 1950s :P
11:28:23 <Flygon> eGVTRS (I know I spelt that wrong <_>) and HEQS
11:28:35 <kamnet> I think you're already taking advantage of them, your reproduction rate is far too high. Are you serving them beer, too?
11:29:27 <kamnet> You, sir, are a cad. And a lush.
11:30:12 <kamnet> Luring in and then abusing poor, innocent sprites.
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11:30:17 <kamnet> You should feel ashamed of yourself.
11:30:38 <kamnet> You can't convince me that they're doing this willingly
11:30:52 <Flygon> Give them the right sort of berries, and they do
11:31:11 <kamnet> Absolutely repulsive pig!
11:31:42 <kamnet> Mammas, don't let your babies grow up to be box trucks.
11:33:09 <Flygon> Zigzagoon floof only ends up boxed shaped when raised in a box and given floof enhancer!
11:34:21 <kamnet> I stock pokemon cards and toys for a living
11:34:34 <kamnet> I don't have a clue what any of it is
11:43:57 <frosch123> the good thing about having so many open bugs is: you can close every new bug as duplicate of an existing one :)
11:44:18 <kamnet> Huh. just found a Quilladin card on my desk.
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11:47:58 <kamnet> frosch123: Weird, when I searched for "townname" earlier, that one didn't come up
11:48:54 <kamnet> Is OpenTTD 1.5.0 not using a trunk title game?
11:49:20 <frosch123> it only works for pre 0.5 savegames
11:49:28 <frosch123> so the nightly savegame is about the only one with which it works
11:49:46 <frosch123> it's broken in every stable release since 1.0 (since they got custom savegames)
11:49:53 <frosch123> but worked in every nightly ever :)
11:50:07 <kamnet> That seems like a particularly nasty bug then.
11:50:32 <kamnet> I'm surprised more people haven't complained
11:50:45 <frosch123> yep, so nasty that it was reported by two people in 5 years :p
11:51:07 <frosch123> well, most likely just ignore newgrf and townname newgrf
11:51:26 <frosch123> it's one of the most hidden settings
11:51:39 <frosch123> anyway, i closed 2/2 bugs today due to duplicate :p
11:53:32 <kamnet> I guess most people only play one game in a session
11:58:04 <kamnet> In other news, I made a dev do some work today. Go me!
12:04:19 <Alberth> you shouldn't count the feature requests :)
12:05:08 <Johnnei> If I only search for type=bug there are only 100 :D
12:10:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27265 /trunk (6 files in 2 dirs) (2015-05-03 12:10:04 +0200 )
12:10:11 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Truncated comment in openttd.grf
12:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> -Fix: Truncated commi
12:28:44 <frosch123> hmm, actually, why is my "bin" folder still modified?
12:28:48 <frosch123> i just committed it
12:30:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27266 /trunk/bin/baseset (4 files) (2015-05-03 12:30:02 +0200 )
12:30:09 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27265): Eddi jinxed it.
12:33:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27267 trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp (2015-05-03 12:33:26 +0200 )
12:33:33 <DorpsGek> -Change: [NewGRF] Translate industry variable A6.
13:10:50 <frosch123> hmm, it doesn't even need a savegame bump
13:11:38 <frosch123> yay, for assert_compile :)
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13:47:00 <frosch123> Johnnei: if i do not care about servicing intervals, why should i have to reset all vehicles to default manually when buying another company, which also did not care about servicing?
13:48:59 <Johnnei> frosch123: With that mindset it might even be better to also override all newly owned vehicles to the company defaults, even if the had custom settings.
13:51:31 <frosch123> no idea them, i never played taking over ais
13:51:52 <Johnnei> I never even played with shares enabled
13:52:12 <frosch123> how did you get to the base_consist thingie though?
13:52:26 <frosch123> it's used for cloning, autoreplace and train consist changes
13:52:51 <frosch123> and the default should be "bit not set"
13:53:41 <Johnnei> Initially I thought it was just a visual glitch, so I added the DoCommand thingy in economy which made it seem fine, but it still broke. So I started stepping through the autoreplace process to find that base_consist failed to recreate vehicle_flags correctly
13:54:12 <frosch123> it's fine, i got it now :)
13:54:13 <Johnnei> Even with this change the vehicle_flags of old and new don't match but as they are copied manually I didn't add the other missing flags
13:55:57 <frosch123> he, vehicle_flags is a mess of static/dynamic flags :)
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13:57:33 <Johnnei> oh well, it seems to do it's intended job :p
13:58:05 <frosch123> ok, if i take your interpretation "servicing intervals should remain the same, when taking over a company"
13:58:25 <frosch123> then economy.cpp should not check for different servint_ispercent
13:58:51 <Johnnei> I actually didn't check if that change was still needed after fixing the base_consist
13:59:12 <frosch123> currently it does not set the is-custom flag, if both used the same unit (percent/days), but different amounts
14:00:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: do you have a good reasoning, whether vehicles should adapt to the new companies' default servicing interval, or keep their old one, when taking over companies? :p
14:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe a group action "set service interval to default"?
14:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and put all new vehicles from a company into a group (with subgroups if the company had groups)
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14:01:30 <frosch123> i knew you wouldn't have a simple solution :p
14:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hey... you drag me out of completely unrelated context, and i have to make something up on the spot... :p
14:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: anyway, that basically amounts to: "keep the value"
14:03:30 <Johnnei> The change in economy.cpp is still required to resolve the visual error. So the forementioned error in the if-statement should be fixed in all cases :p
14:05:26 <frosch123> and what if both companies did not use any custom intervals, and both had the same defaults?
14:05:34 <frosch123> should the vehicles still be set to custom
14:05:45 <frosch123> just that they may never be modified when changing the default? :p
14:09:45 <Johnnei> frosch123: I guess your solution in the comment seems the most player friendly, but if the player ignores service intervals then they'll still be suprised by the custom ones.
14:10:47 <andythenorth> when you acquire a company, the company acquires your service intervals
14:11:13 <andythenorth> proper domain for the source of the value is *your* company
14:11:27 <andythenorth> otherwise, what, we keep old company colour for vehicles too?
14:12:03 <frosch123> yay, now i can just let eddi and andy battle it out :)
14:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a boring battle
14:13:08 <andythenorth> what’s eddi’s proposal?
14:13:44 <andythenorth> also nml builtin_industry_type() has a fixed check for number of industries
14:13:54 <andythenorth> dunno if that one should change or not
14:15:44 <frosch123> hmm, what weird function is that?
14:16:10 <frosch123> what uses (industry_id | new_id << 7) ?
14:16:51 <frosch123> ok, so i missed some restrictions :)
14:17:28 * andythenorth changing nml now
14:18:00 <frosch123> well, my patch is incomplete then
14:22:28 <Johnnei> andythenorth: Eddi's proposal basically came down to: keep the old values and an option to convert a group to default interval settings.
14:23:14 <andythenorth> I have an alternative proposal
14:23:22 <andythenorth> remove option to purchase companies
14:24:25 <Johnnei> haha :D I guess the players who actually use it will disagree :p
14:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if we listend to every fit andy throws about "remove feature X, it's silly"...
14:25:21 <Johnnei> New in openttd 1.6: We removed everything. The code base is now 0 lines of code.
14:25:47 <frosch123> should be worth 2.0 status :p
14:27:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause is likely right about the correct solution
14:27:09 <andythenorth> but mine is easier to implement :P
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14:30:31 <andythenorth> A fatal newgrf error has occurred: attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 59525)
14:31:33 <Flygon> At least it's not a pixie error
14:41:16 <Johnnei> Alright. Will try to make a patch for Eddi's solution but might take some time, I'm not that familiar with the codebase yet :p
14:41:45 <frosch123> it's not necessarily a good idea to follow eddi's ideas .)
14:42:00 <frosch123> there is no point in a hyper-complex solution which, noone uses anyway
14:42:55 <Johnnei> That's true as well, but then we should decide on which settings should be enforced
14:45:25 <frosch123> i would still go for "default" means "i don't care"
14:45:58 <frosch123> keep custom of old company, enforce defaults of new company for vehicles with no custom interval
14:47:36 <Johnnei> Okey, will do that then. Seems the most user friendly.
14:48:37 * andythenorth wonders why that ID is invalid, and where it comes from
14:49:29 <frosch123> it usually means that you skipped the item definition
14:52:44 * andythenorth tests with an industry that doesn’t redefine default coal mine
14:53:41 <andythenorth> same message, sprite 3131
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15:27:21 <andythenorth> biab, flakey wifi
15:30:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: that sprite error was bogus, Eandythenorth
15:31:03 <andythenorth> had two copies of ottd running, one unpatched
15:31:40 <andythenorth> only noticed because of crossing bells on title screen :P
15:36:21 <Johnnei> Changed the patch to copy the values, however the cmdChangeServiceInt copies the company settings. grrrr
15:42:20 <peter1138> Excuse the digital zoom potatory :(
15:52:40 <Rubidium> peter1138: what's so special about that train?
16:04:19 <Rubidium> and speaking about trains in the UK; why is buying a ticket Cambridge - Newbury about GBP 10 more expensive than Cambridge - London Kings Cross + London Kings Cross - Newbury (both routes go via London Kings Cross)
16:04:57 <peter1138> Dunno, it's a little unusual, in UK-land at least.
16:07:27 <Alberth> nobody wants to go to London Kings Cross
16:15:48 <Wolf01> Rubidium, 2 slow trains vs 1 rapid train?
16:16:02 <Rubidium> Wolf01: nope, the exact same trains
16:19:14 <Wolf01> In Italy looks like you pay more the more time they take...
16:25:05 <Rubidium> right... Amsterdam - Birmingham with a layover in ... Dubai
16:26:01 <michi_cc> Rubidium: Splitting train tickets is allowed, so the more expensive ticket is purely for anybody who doesn't realize this.
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17:33:09 * andythenorth wants an account system for irc
17:33:27 <andythenorth> then I can work out the profit (loss) on each post
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17:45:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: so the 128 industry patch works for me
17:53:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: def get_profit(post): return -1
17:55:39 <Alberth> hmm, irc eh? in that case, I may have missed a few cases
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18:05:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think it’s a dice roll
18:08:32 <Alberth> is more interesting to try, at least :)
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21:10:44 <V453000> :) more about the lego than some trivial rotation :P
21:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [sprite] Ignoring 104 unused extra bytes from the sprite from /nars2w at position 3312641 <-- this positioning data seems broken/useless
21:20:44 <frosch123> that grfcodec bug was fixed 2 years ago, in case you are wondering
21:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i was probably not :p
21:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, that may be my code
21:23:25 <frosch123> there are no warnings with gcc 4.7
21:23:36 <frosch123> there are various warning with various other compilers
21:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> + case 0x4E: // total weight of the consist <-- did i actually write this?
21:25:48 <frosch123> yes, you even submitted it to fs
21:25:52 <frosch123> and i rejected it :p
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22:10:22 <FLHerne> cargo_(dis)allow_refit always overrides the (non_)refittable_cargo_classes, right?
22:11:43 <V453000> vehicles: can I allow/disallow company colours just by a parameter switching the CC flag, and keeping the sprites, or do I have to define new sprites?
22:12:26 <FLHerne> And it seems disallow/nonrefittable always overrides the positive version, if I somehow manage to set both?
22:12:37 <V453000> I want to have 32bpp vehicles not use CC but provide the option without doubling grfsize
22:12:51 <FLHerne> OTOH, if that ever actually matters to me my code is broken already
22:13:07 <frosch123> V453000: no, you cannot disable the "mask"
22:13:45 <frosch123> either there is one, or there is none
22:13:46 <V453000> define new vehicle which does not have it?
22:14:04 <V453000> but vehicle has flag for CC
22:14:17 <frosch123> you do not need separate vehicles
22:14:23 <frosch123> just provide sprites without "mask"
22:14:30 <frosch123> no idea what you want to do with the CC flag
22:14:35 <frosch123> it only affects the "mask"
22:14:43 <frosch123> it does nothing if you have no "mask"
22:14:53 <V453000> I will have mask for all
22:15:01 <V453000> and disable the mask by the flag
22:15:23 <frosch123> you can force the company colour to be always blue, but you cannot disable the mask
22:16:04 <V453000> so no way to make CC disable-able without doubling filesize?
22:16:12 <frosch123> so, if there is one company colour that looks like "without mask", you can force that one
22:16:18 <frosch123> but the mask will be applies in any case
22:16:31 <frosch123> no mask, means duplicate sprites
22:16:53 <V453000> duplicate sprites with and without mask
22:17:10 <frosch123> in theory you could make two grfs :p removing the mask does not change the md5sum :p
22:17:17 <V453000> I wont do that, will ignore CC insteead
22:17:29 <frosch123> but ottd won't load unused sprites anyway, so it does not affect the spritecache
22:17:46 <frosch123> only size on disk, so why do you care?
22:17:49 <V453000> and stupid mess in code etc
22:18:20 <V453000> I for some reason assumed that it could work to disable it
22:18:42 <V453000> I guess that could not be changed eh
22:20:18 <frosch123> pineapple has n sprites for n colours
22:20:29 <frosch123> adding n+1 for traditional company colour does not matter in that case
22:20:55 <V453000> since I want to do colours as well
22:21:15 <frosch123> well, in that case you do not save any code either :p
22:21:30 <frosch123> it's simple to add another case depending on a global parameter
22:21:36 <frosch123> if you have already a switch for colours anyway
22:22:18 <V453000> well, okay :) that sounds like the way to go
22:23:11 <V453000> it doesnt even need to be an extra render, can just apply the mask to existing
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22:26:57 <V453000> fine then :D thanks for making it clear frosch123 :)
22:28:47 <frosch123> you can make a switch like "my_grf_parameter == 1 ? 16 : company_colour1" which then has cases 0 to 15 for 32bpp sprites, and 16 for cc mask
22:28:58 <frosch123> so, you need no extra switch at all
22:29:35 <V453000> I make just about 8 colours, all 15 is stupidly many :)
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