IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-28
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00:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, kerbal space program for 25% off... worth it?
00:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll probably do that
00:56:57 <supermop> damnit have run out of coffee again
00:57:22 <supermop> only 25gm to make coffee for two of us this morning - pretty meager
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01:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> 25 general motors?
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05:35:34 <DorpsGek> ST2: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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08:57:20 <andythenorth> is that captain hook?
09:02:53 * andythenorth has a GS mechanic, but no catchy narrative
09:03:20 <andythenorth> Pikka bob, ^ mechanic is ‘deliver at least n amount to all industries of type x’ to win
09:03:26 <andythenorth> what is reason please?
09:03:43 <Pikka> reason? does there have to be a reason?
09:03:57 <andythenorth> even if it’s tenuous
09:05:11 <andythenorth> something like “Universal Coverage” or something
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10:37:21 * andythenorth will to FIRS today
10:38:28 <andythenorth> pikka has blogged
10:40:01 * Pikka did some work on coastlines today, went well.
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10:42:41 <andythenorth> Pikka: greyhound? o_O
10:42:47 <andythenorth> pineapple trucks are go?
10:53:21 <Pikka> maybe for kick starter backers? ;)
11:13:54 <V453000> maybe just caused by me not being american but that RV looks weird to me :P
11:14:41 <Pikka> weird compared to what? slugs? :P
11:17:08 <V453000> no, "a car* a truck* a bus" I would imagine in europez
11:19:34 <V453000> sligs look perfectly normal too :P
11:19:49 <andythenorth> the dekotora looks weird?
11:21:17 <Pikka> the greyhound bus I assume
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13:08:41 <Flygon_> That satisfying feeling
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13:08:56 <Flygon> A freight train juuuust barely hits it's maximum speed
13:09:03 <Flygon> After juuust enough acceleration
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14:35:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: sounds like it's underpowered
14:36:12 <Flygon> Sounds like it was 1924
14:36:20 <Flygon> Only used two steam locos <_>
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15:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... wtf are the controls in KSP? i've started the tutorial, and am stuck with attaching the fuel tank...
15:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i can't even go to any menu...
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15:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> this tutorial isn't much of a tutorial
15:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no, this just doesn't work...
15:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause> can ANYBODY explain it to me please?
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15:40:36 <andythenorth> I couldn’t work KSP either
15:40:43 <andythenorth> despite 4 people in my office explaining it
15:40:57 <andythenorth> I manage to get a Kerbal into a rocket, but I couldn’t start the engine
15:41:07 <andythenorth> I did get the Kerbal to jump out of the capsule though
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16:20:05 <Ox4> could somebody explain me this one: Deliver 100 bags of mail 100 squares in 100 days:
16:20:05 <Ox4> £55 * 100 squares * (1 - 80*0.004 - 10*0.004) = £3520?
16:20:49 <Ox4> early delivery time for mail is 20 and late is 90 days
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16:22:33 <Ox4> from what time the counter starts? when the one unit of cargo is loaded in a vehicle, or when a vehicle arrives?
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16:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm stuck at the very beginning. it says "fuel tank goes green when it's at a suitible position", but no matter where i place it, it doesn't work
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16:39:59 <Johnnei> @Ox4, Tried to look it up for you but I can't really spot where exactly the transit time is being reset. (but I'm also very new to the code)
16:50:34 <Rubidium> the one in game mechanics looks kinda iffy to me at best
16:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Ox4: be aware that "days" occasionally means "2.5 days"
16:53:27 <Ox4> Eddi|zuHause: interesting... thank you
16:56:53 <Rubidium> my calculations end up with about 5100 instead of 3520 for 100 units of mail over 100 squares in 100 days
16:57:31 <Rubidium> @calc 4550*100*100*(100/2.5)*(255-(40-20))*2**-21
16:57:31 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 203943.252563
16:58:11 <Rubidium> hmm... what's going wrong there...
16:58:32 <Johnnei> @calc 55 * 100 * (1 - 80 * 0.004 - 10 * 0.004)
16:59:05 <Rubidium> @calc 4550*100*100*(255-((100/2.5)-20))/2**21
16:59:05 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 5098.58131409
16:59:10 <Rubidium> there... that's the one
16:59:31 <Johnnei> Or even more elaborate:
16:59:34 <Johnnei> @calc 55 * 100 * (1 - (100 - 20) * 0.004 - (100 - 90) * 0.004)
17:00:54 <Rubidium> @calc 55*100*(1-((100/2.5)-20)*0.004)
17:01:18 <Rubidium> I did not add the last one, because (100/2.5) < 90
17:01:35 <Johnnei> It does work out, but the examples given are straight to the answer and don't show intermediate steps
17:02:09 <Rubidium> well.. 3520 is wrong, 5098 is "right"; just compare it with the in-game payment graph
17:03:06 <Rubidium> mail for the first 50 days is just below GBP 112 for 10 units over 20 tiles
17:03:18 <Ox4> anyway I didn't find from what point the counter starts :-(
17:04:09 <Rubidium> @calc 55*100-(1-(50-20)*0.004-(50-90)*0.004)
17:04:51 <Rubidium> hmm... that formula on the game mechanics even misses the amount...
17:05:07 <Rubidium> in any case, counting is whenever it's in a vehicle
17:05:13 <Johnnei> The example given on the page assumes that no form of inflation has applied though
17:08:08 <Ox4> Rubidium: hence, if capacity of a vehicle is smaller then the earining is bigger, right?
17:12:13 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.772727272727
17:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ox4: you earn more if the vehicle is immediately full on loading
17:19:13 <Ox4> I am testing autoreplace feature and am receiving (money limit) message, but the current balance is $200k
17:19:30 <Ox4> why the money limit is triggered?
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17:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Ox4: the money limit as set in the settings is what must be leftover after the replacement
17:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so if the replacement costs 50k, and the limit is 200k, you need to have 250k for the replacement to happen
17:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 200k is the default
17:49:57 <Ox4> Eddi|zuHause: understood, thank you
17:54:30 <andythenorth> pyflakes hates me again
17:55:03 <andythenorth> over-enthusiastic find and replace :P
17:55:49 <Alberth> I had such a report too, but the import did have an important side-effect I needed
17:56:04 <andythenorth> these are legit reports
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19:24:59 <Zippyvinman> Ayyyyyyyyyy anyone?
19:25:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27260 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-04-28 19:25:21 +0200 )
19:25:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27244): economy.allow_town_roads should not affect town placement during world generation.
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19:26:28 <Zippyvinman> Let me know if anyone's around
19:26:43 <frosch123> there are 140 people in this channel
19:26:59 <Zippyvinman> I dont really know how IRC works
19:27:17 <Zippyvinman> I was directed here from Reddit, I'm trying to set up an openTTD server
19:32:01 <Zippyvinman> Anyone think they'd be able to help?
19:34:25 <frosch123> anyway, you didn't ask a question
19:34:33 <Zippyvinman> Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. I read on the wiki and it said about that. I have the debian server but I don't really know what I'm doing, hahaha
19:34:44 <Zippyvinman> said about the IRC*
19:34:56 <frosch123> apt-get install openttd
19:35:02 <frosch123> sudo apt-get install openttd
19:35:15 <frosch123> then upload a savegame made with a client
19:35:24 <frosch123> then run openttd -D -g mysavegame.sav
19:35:32 <Zippyvinman> but I need to get open TTD don't I?
19:35:45 <frosch123> sudo apt-get install openttd
19:35:59 <Zippyvinman> just typing that will go find it online and download/install it?
19:36:19 <Zippyvinman> or I need to put the installer or zip on the USB im booting from
19:36:26 <frosch123> well, or use your package manager
19:36:37 <Zippyvinman> I'm unsure what that is
19:36:38 <frosch123> however you usually install stuff on your system
19:36:54 <Zippyvinman> I'm using another computer
19:37:05 <Zippyvinman> I want to install it on it to be just used for openTTD
19:37:13 <andythenorth> he needs to use whatever Debian provides for getting ports
19:37:31 <frosch123> Zippyvinman: i have no idea what you are missing
19:37:35 <Zippyvinman> I think I'll be able to open ports once I get there
19:37:38 <frosch123> if you installed debian, you can also install openttd
19:37:45 <frosch123> openttd is part of all major linux distributions
19:38:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: that concept is quite magical if you’re unfamiliar with linux and ports trees and such :)
19:38:25 <Zippyvinman> and got the small USB install for AMD processor
19:38:41 <frosch123> so, you do not have it installed?
19:38:44 <andythenorth> what should happen if he just types ‘openttd’ or such?
19:39:10 <Zippyvinman> The computer that I have plugged the USB in with the ISO in, I booted from ISO, and I have the command line I believe
19:40:14 <frosch123> does it say "root"? or something else?
19:40:23 <Zippyvinman> doesn't take keystrokes look like
19:40:31 <Zippyvinman> typing makes beepps
19:40:45 <frosch123> ok, please refer to the manual for installing linux then :)
19:41:35 * andythenorth learns how it works
19:44:43 <Zippyvinman> Can I run Ubuntu or no? It's a bit easier with a GUI for me but I'm not sure if I can run it through it
19:45:00 <frosch123> why don't you just run a server on your windows machine?
19:45:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27261 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2015-04-28 19:45:14 +0200 )
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> swedish - 1 changes by abbedabb
19:46:09 <Zippyvinman> I probably could. Does it use a lot of RAM?
19:46:26 <frosch123> exactly the same as a client
19:46:45 <frosch123> if you are playing yourself, you need no extra resources
19:46:56 <Zippyvinman> I'll be playing with 2-3 friends
19:47:17 <frosch123> if you are playing, you get the server for free
19:47:29 <frosch123> the clients simulate the game state, not the server
19:47:32 <Zippyvinman> What if they want to play when I'm not on?
19:47:38 <Zippyvinman> like in the same game
19:47:45 <frosch123> well, your client needs to keep running
19:48:11 <frosch123> whatever computer is the server needs to keep running
19:48:24 <Zippyvinman> Could I run the server separately on the same computer? Like a non-gui version that runs in the background that I can connect to?
19:48:37 <frosch123> then you need twice the cpu power
19:48:52 <frosch123> you can just run the gui client, and join spectators when not playing yourself
19:49:10 <Zippyvinman> TBH I could just run it on other computer directly
19:49:16 <frosch123> running a separate server on the same machine does not add anything good
19:49:16 <Zippyvinman> it has 7 installed I believe
19:49:59 <Zippyvinman> I think I'm gonna do a fresh install of 7 on my other PC. How should I go about deleting everything? I can do that from the install right?
19:50:35 <frosch123> we do not ship openttd on discs
19:50:43 <Zippyvinman> I mean my windows 7, haha
19:50:57 <frosch123> no idea, never installed 7
19:51:14 <Zippyvinman> I'll just try it without reinstalling, I need to open ports for MP still, yes?
19:51:33 <frosch123> yes, by default noone but the nsa may connect to your computer
19:51:39 <frosch123> you have to let your friends in
19:52:40 <frosch123> you have to battle the firewall in yuor router, and in your computer
19:52:49 <frosch123> when your server is on servers.openttd.org, you have won
19:53:12 <glx> (if advertising is enabled ;) )
19:53:18 <Zippyvinman> I have my computer's firewall turned to low, so that shouldn't be a problem. Is that a metaphor for I just gotta try it out and see if it'll work?
19:53:38 <Zippyvinman> And how does advertising work? that's like if I wanted it public right?
19:53:45 <frosch123> you will have to configure your router in any case
19:54:13 <glx> yes advertising shows it in the list
19:54:16 <frosch123> advertise means that it will be listed on servers.openttd.org and your friends can see it
19:54:28 <Zippyvinman> Yeah, I'll be able to do that. I need to do it on both my router, as well as the modem?
19:54:43 <Zippyvinman> or just one of the two
19:54:54 <frosch123> if you do not advertise you have to tell your friends your ip address, but if it doesn't work you will have no idea whethe the problem is on your or their side
19:55:07 <glx> only the server needs ports opening
19:55:10 <frosch123> so, for the first time you should definetly use "advertised"
19:55:44 <Zippyvinman> Yeah, I can just put a password on it, right?
19:56:04 <frosch123> but usually noone joins your server
19:56:18 <frosch123> if you take a look at servers.openttd.org, most are empty
19:57:48 <Zippyvinman> Ah, ok, installing openttd on the computer now
20:00:48 <Zippyvinman> Ok, so I'm gonna log onto my modem or router to open ports, does it matter which?
20:01:03 <DorpsGek> frosch123: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:01:36 <Zippyvinman> But on Router or Modem?
20:02:20 <frosch123> i have no idea what's the difference of those two
20:02:28 <frosch123> i only have one box to connect to the internet
20:02:45 <Alberth> everything that blocks outbound communication from your computer to "the internet" at those ports
20:03:11 <Zippyvinman> My modem sends internet to my router I thoughtt
20:03:43 <Zippyvinman> I have Verizon Fios and it's like a 2 in 1 dealio, or maybe it's just a second router
20:03:48 <Zippyvinman> pretty sure it's a modem
20:03:55 <Zippyvinman> I'll log into it first and see if it works
20:03:56 <glx> usually outbound is not blocked, but inbound needs unblocking
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20:07:53 <Zippyvinman> Ok, I got onto the modem
20:08:08 <Zippyvinman> under firewall and portforwarding
20:08:49 <frosch123> Wolf01: only 5.5 days till full moon :)
20:08:53 <Zippyvinman> It says there are two IPs for the computer I'm trying to host it on, one with a 0 and one with a 1 at the end, how do I know which to use?
20:10:25 <Zippyvinman> Ok so its asking for source ports and destination ports
20:10:43 <Zippyvinman> which is it that I'm putting "Any" for and which gets the above?
20:11:00 <frosch123> set both to the same value
20:11:20 <frosch123> ports 3978 and 3979
20:11:41 <frosch123> sometimes you can do that with two forwards, sometimes you have to configure four
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20:12:50 <Zippyvinman> hmmm ok I'll start with the 3979 and then UDP 3978 and TCP 3978
20:15:07 <Zippyvinman> Ok, got them open
20:15:19 <Zippyvinman> Now I go on the client and try to start it up?
20:15:38 <frosch123> yes, just in main menu go to multiplayer, start server, advertised:yes, start
20:15:47 <frosch123> then hope it shows up on servers.openttd.org
20:18:44 <Zippyvinman> should the ports be Any -> 3978/3979?
20:18:51 <Zippyvinman> instead of itself
20:23:22 <Zippyvinman> hmmm tryiing out some other stuff
20:24:10 <Zippyvinman> It's ok if I have a different DNS on my comp right?
20:30:05 <Zippyvinman> Anyone else around?
20:33:34 <Zippyvinman> oh shhit I messed something up
20:34:00 <Zippyvinman> I accidentally deleted something that popped up, shouldn't have deleted it...
20:34:53 <Zippyvinman> It was a UPnP IGD UDP something like that. I tookk a picture before I deleted it so If I fucked up I'd at least know what it was
20:35:01 <Zippyvinman> but I have no Idea how to make it again :(
20:35:50 <Zippyvinman> im gonna restart my router and hope for the best
20:35:59 <Zippyvinman> I may reconnect brb
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20:42:33 <DorpsGek> Zippyvinman: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:44:11 <Zippyvinman> now if I wanted to connect from IP through my other computer, which would I use?
20:44:16 <Zippyvinman> My computer's external IP?
20:44:29 <Zippyvinman> Like assuming it works
20:44:50 <Zippyvinman> nvm, isn't showing up on server list
20:48:06 <Zippyvinman> anyone else around?
20:51:20 <Alberth> you really want an answer to that question? :)
20:51:47 <Zippyvinman> How about this : anyone wanna help me out :'(>
20:52:43 <Alberth> ask a question you need an answer for
20:53:03 <Zippyvinman> why wont this work even though I believe the ports are correct
20:54:55 <Alberth> it showed up on the server list right?
20:55:07 <Zippyvinman> This is so weird, the laptop's IPv4 address keeps changing
20:55:32 <Zippyvinman> it keepps changing from 192.168.1.190 to 192.168.1.191
20:55:39 <Zippyvinman> it's changed from 0 to 1 now 0 again
20:55:51 <Alberth> 192.168 is all local LAN
20:56:04 <Zippyvinman> yeah, but it has two options for port forwarding
20:56:15 <Zippyvinman> nothing else has 2 addresses
20:57:10 <Alberth> you're forwarding a local LAN address?
20:57:32 <Zippyvinman> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:57:40 <Zippyvinman> I think it's because I have 2 networks adapters
20:57:51 <Zippyvinman> I'm trying to forward it to my laptop
20:58:15 <Alberth> nobody here has an aidea of your network setup
20:58:23 <Alberth> except you hopefully :)
20:58:45 <Zippyvinman> My laptop I'm using to run the server is connected by wireless and wired to my modem
20:59:36 <Zippyvinman> i'll dc the wire so it's wireless only
20:59:56 <Zippyvinman> yeah, wireless is 191
21:00:56 <Zippyvinman> Ok, should I send a picture of the ports im forwarding?
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21:04:06 <Zippyvinman> hmmm says its closed
21:04:12 <Zippyvinman> heres what it looks like
21:05:31 <Zippyvinman> it says the 3979 is open
21:06:16 <Zippyvinman> now it says its closed
21:07:47 <Zippyvinman> I got the computer connected
21:07:52 <Zippyvinman> I had to add it manually
21:07:58 <Zippyvinman> I guess advertising it just wont work
21:08:10 <Zippyvinman> but typing my IP works fine
21:08:32 <Zippyvinman> Could you do me a favor and see if you can find it too?
21:09:07 <frosch123> what version are you running?
21:13:52 <frosch123> no server at your external ip
21:13:59 <frosch123> i.e. the one you use on irc
21:15:19 <Zippyvinman> is that 100.2.21.63
21:17:43 <Zippyvinman> what are some good things to get for the server?
21:18:03 <Zippyvinman> like mods plugins stuff like tthat
21:18:10 <Zippyvinman> just me and my friends will be using it
21:18:45 <frosch123> you should set it to pause when noone is playing
21:18:56 <Zippyvinman> How do I do that? Is that in the cfg?
21:19:02 <frosch123> just experiment with the rest
21:20:11 <frosch123> then you can just join spectators when you are not playing
21:20:19 <frosch123> and it will pause when everyone is specator or left
21:20:50 <frosch123> if you want to play at different times of the day
21:21:14 <Zippyvinman> any way to set the time change to be slower?
21:21:19 <frosch123> you should set "vehicle never expire:on", "breakdowns:off" and start in the future when everything is available
21:21:21 <Zippyvinman> but the economy stays the same speed and etc?
21:21:38 <frosch123> otherwise your breaks downs while you are not playing
21:27:05 <Zippyvinman> now do these settings only apply to the server?
21:27:30 <frosch123> they apply to games
21:27:50 <frosch123> set them on the server, start a game, and joining clients will use them
21:28:20 <Zippyvinman> I can't edit these in game, right?
21:28:25 <Zippyvinman> only via the file
21:28:31 <frosch123> you can on the server
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21:28:36 <frosch123> via the settings gui, or via the console
21:29:06 <frosch123> but mind that changing stuff in main menu only affects new games
21:29:15 <frosch123> and changing stuff within a game only affects the running game
21:29:24 <frosch123> the settings are part of the savegame
21:32:06 <Zippyvinman> what's a good max length for trains?
21:32:38 <frosch123> there are as many opinions as there are people here
21:32:55 <Zippyvinman> I can change any settings from the server while playing and it applies instantly right?
21:33:25 <Zippyvinman> disasters/accidents yes?
21:33:26 <frosch123> you can see in the gui, what is shaded and what is changeable
21:34:04 <Zippyvinman> What's your opinions of AI players?
21:34:40 <frosch123> there are different types of ais
21:34:56 <frosch123> competetive ones, normally playing ones, and passive ones
21:35:09 <frosch123> the passive ones only build road networks and stuff for other players to use
21:35:36 <frosch123> if you are not playing all the time, i think it makes little sense to run a competetiive ai along your friends
21:36:43 <Alkel_U3> disasters are pretty annoying in a multiplayer game, especially the large UFO. You come back after a few decades of absence to find out your mainline railway's been blasted and the resulting jam ranges across a half of the map
21:40:31 <Zippyvinman> where is auto pause located?
21:41:27 <frosch123> likely not in the gui
21:41:52 <Zippyvinman> what's the command for that?
21:42:09 <frosch123> setting min_active_clients 1
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21:43:24 <Zippyvinman> where do I join the spectators team?
21:44:06 <frosch123> you can select the various companies, and "join spectators"
21:44:50 <Zippyvinman> does there need to be at least one company? I don't see anything about spectators
21:45:08 <frosch123> if there is no company at all, you are obviously specator
21:45:13 <frosch123> then there is only "new company"
21:45:43 <Zippyvinman> im unnamed company 1
21:49:02 <Zippyvinman> I dont have that option
21:49:15 <Zippyvinman> I didn't have that before
21:49:57 <Zippyvinman> hmmmm I don't see the server now for some reason
21:50:33 <Zippyvinman> says server offline
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21:55:46 <Zippyvinman> nevermind, got it up
21:55:49 <Zippyvinman> I gotta go anyway
21:55:55 <Zippyvinman> be back later if I need more help, thanks!
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22:21:21 <tyteen4a03> what is the maximum of the sprite cache?
22:23:10 <tyteen4a03> frosch123, how much should I enter in sprite_cache_size_px if I want all 2GB?
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23:21:14 <kamnet> Good evening for anybody who is still awake
23:26:47 * kamnet ponders boxing up OpenTTD for retail sale. :D
23:29:53 <Supercheese> hard to sell what folks can get for free
23:30:04 <Supercheese> although some folks do have success with that
23:34:30 <__ln__> some people would certainly buy a box even if the contents would be free to download, but indeed what would be the selling point for the big audience?
23:34:57 <__ln__> (i can imagine some, but all of those require quite a bit of money)
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continue to next day ⏵
