IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-07
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00:03:13 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
00:18:01 <Supercheese> Hmmm, should the Seaplane version of the airport have lower maintenance costs...?
00:18:08 <Supercheese> it is mostly water, after all
00:23:15 <Supercheese> Oh wow, the Small airport is already at minimum maintenance costs when using Av8...
00:23:34 <Supercheese> unless it can go negative
00:25:41 <Supercheese> Guess I won't mess with it then
00:26:22 <Supercheese> It's a shame that airports do not have an animation trigger for "When airplane lands"
00:31:50 <ChrisM> Is it right that a path signal reserves the track including the next signal if it's a block signal, but doesn't reserve that track if it's another path signal?
00:34:26 <ChrisM> Why are they treated differently?
00:36:04 <kamnet> Block signals are a holdover from TTD, retained in part for backwards compatability. PBS is a new signal system on top of it.
00:37:34 <ChrisM> Entry/exit signals are treated like the block signals too
00:37:49 <ChrisM> It's not a big deal, I think I just to need to stick in another signal (:
00:41:07 <kamnet> I typically only play with PBS.
00:44:24 <ChrisM> I'm mixing them to do a priority merge
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01:41:08 <TartarusMkII> Hey guys, question. I put train depots in a lot of places along a long train line so that there'd be close by places to fix problems. But my trains still prefer one specific depot (that isn't even the oldest or anything), and I don't know why.
01:41:10 <TartarusMkII> Is this normal, or no
01:44:55 <Supercheese> I'm not sure, you don't order them to go to a specific depot do you?
01:45:53 <TartarusMkII> no. WHen they break down, sometimes they just keep going, but sometimes they need to go to a depot first, and they seem to choose not the closest one for this.
01:48:56 <Supercheese> Ah, I do not enable breakdowns, so I can't help you there
01:49:05 <TartarusMkII> why do you choose to do that?
01:50:37 <TartarusMkII> Also, is there anything I can do to help industries produce more stuff? Like woods creating wood?
01:55:28 <Supercheese> With the default industries, you must get as high a %cargo transported as possible
01:55:53 <glx> and always have a vehicle waiting
01:55:57 <Supercheese> So, build a station nearby and take cargo, trying to ensure there's always one vehicle loading in the station at all times
01:56:28 <Supercheese> also try and use the fastest vehicles possible
01:58:16 <glx> and industries prefer young vehicles too IIRC
01:58:33 <Supercheese> yes, but there's not much to be done there
01:58:43 <Supercheese> could build statues too if you have the $$$
02:03:33 <Supercheese> Yes, click the town name, Local Authority, build statue
02:03:51 <Supercheese> it will boost your station ratings which boost your %transported which increase the chance the default industries will increase produciton
02:03:59 <Supercheese> but it is rather expensive
02:04:41 <TartarusMkII> I don't see town name- also because it's just one business. Do you mean for towns themselves?
02:05:06 <Supercheese> the full rundown on default industries
02:06:30 <TartarusMkII> Also, what is the purpose of founding a town? I can't find a wiki page aobut it
02:09:15 <Supercheese> So you can have another town
02:09:22 <Supercheese> that's really about it; also it is extremely expensive
02:18:11 <Supercheese> It's funnier if you pronounce Bitter like a French word
02:19:11 <Supercheese> huh, I had never heard of the Moa before
02:19:23 <Supercheese> now my knowledge of extinct species has increased
02:19:37 <supermop> they were pretty pretty big
02:19:45 <Supercheese> no kidding, the skeletons are amazing
02:20:15 <supermop> the stupid pun arose from thinking Moa would be a good name for an EMU set
02:20:43 <supermop> because i never do not think of the bird first when seeing EMU written out
02:21:28 <supermop> but yeah the sign doesnt work if the moa is twice the size of the camel
02:22:22 <supermop> isn't there a dutch DMU called kameel? man this is more of a multiple unit pun that i'd thought
02:22:55 <supermop> emus, dmus, and metro-cammel all in one
02:24:58 <supermop> I think i'll do a ginzu lager and maybe a 4x stiyle shitty beer called 8P
02:30:24 <Supercheese> You could do a Wills Pils
02:30:35 <Supercheese> the Wills from arctic/tropical
02:32:20 <supermop> i've almost bever played the default vehicles from the other climates
02:32:50 <supermop> i only had tto, not ttd in the 90s so i never spent years with them pre-newgrf
02:33:25 <supermop> i could do more american style beers and ads for those climates
02:34:08 <supermop> australia is weird with generally more american style trains and trucks, but more british style beers
02:34:23 <supermop> building styles vary from region to region
02:34:54 <supermop> but Melbourne best described as a hotter drier englang
02:35:23 <supermop> with bitter ales as the defacto mass beer
02:35:38 <supermop> the QLD beers are a bit more american/german
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03:35:58 <TartarusMkII> I am wondering if anyone has, on hand, any screen shots of someone's set up in the early game.
03:40:08 <Supercheese> Well, I do but I use dozens of newgrfs
03:40:27 <TartarusMkII> I'm still interested in what yo u choose to do =)
03:40:28 <Supercheese> if you're using default industries and vehicles you may in certain cases want to be doing things differently
03:40:37 <Supercheese> Maybe I should start a screenshot thread
03:41:12 <TartarusMkII> Yea, right now I am just focusing on trains for some reeeeeallllly basic stuff
03:42:13 <Supercheese> well I'll just upload some on third party sites for now
03:43:08 <Supercheese> Interested in trains eh?
03:43:48 <TartarusMkII> I actually wanted to prolong the time I had until I had to upgrade vehicles, so I start the game in 1925 lol
03:44:05 <TartarusMkII> So I can only use trains to start (and I'm fine with that)
03:44:09 <Supercheese> I'll post some shots from the game I started in 1912
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03:44:53 <TartarusMkII> my trains are starting to lose money rather than make it, not sure what to do aobut it <..>
03:45:16 <TartarusMkII> oh I see, the mine they were getting ore from closed down and I didn't ntoice
03:45:18 <TartarusMkII> why would it do that?
03:46:25 <Supercheese> sometimes the default industries just go kaput
03:46:30 <Supercheese> they are annoying like that
03:46:40 <Supercheese> it's covered on the Game mechanics page I linked earlier
03:46:43 <TartarusMkII> damn. so what do I do with the infrastructure I built for it? >..<
03:46:53 <Supercheese> well.... mostly sell it
03:47:03 <Supercheese> divert the trains elsewhere if it's connected to your network
03:47:08 <Supercheese> if you have a network
03:48:22 <Supercheese> To begin the game I started with lots of ships
03:48:30 <Supercheese> since FIRS has fishing grounds
03:48:55 <Supercheese> The foundry at the bottom is fed scrap metal from that line...
03:49:41 <TartarusMkII> I see, interesting
03:50:04 <TartarusMkII> Oh that's a cool structure
03:50:09 <Supercheese> The metal from the foundry, in turn, produces supplies which are fed back to the scrapyard and bauxite mine
03:50:17 <Supercheese> there's also a pumping station at the oil well shown there
03:50:30 <Supercheese> with an oil pipeline running to a refinery offscreen
03:50:36 <TartarusMkII> oh hah, that's really neat.
03:50:52 <TartarusMkII> I like those sets you've added, they fit with the art style that I prefer.
03:51:07 <TartarusMkII> I'd try to download stuff but I'd worry about accidentally getting something that is not compatible or would not fit
03:51:45 <Supercheese> Yeah I have, let's see... I have 72 grfs, not all of which actually do something (some are just dummy grfs)
03:51:48 <TartarusMkII> Very intreresting lay out.
03:52:00 <Supercheese> to organize the list
03:52:13 <TartarusMkII> lol that's interesting
03:52:30 <Supercheese> things can get messy so I divide the list up
03:52:36 <Supercheese> helps keep things sane
03:52:54 <Supercheese> that is not the exact list I am using for the game I'm currently on
03:53:04 <TartarusMkII> holy crap haha wow
03:53:09 <Supercheese> but it's a good example of how things can get out of hand
03:56:15 <TartarusMkII> I guess my biggest confusion is how to best use my starting $200k
03:56:48 <Supercheese> Ah, well, I use the money cheat :O
03:57:03 <TartarusMkII> I like the challenge
03:57:26 <Supercheese> However, a coal-hauling route is often desirable in early years
03:57:30 <Supercheese> with default industries
03:57:43 <Supercheese> aircraft can be insanely profitable but only in later years
03:59:02 <TartarusMkII> I noticed that the coal hauling makes a lot of money, yea
03:59:34 <TartarusMkII> should I find a power plant with a couple coal mines nearby and just go hard, dumping as much of the coal on the power plant as possible to encourage more production from the mines?
04:00:27 <Supercheese> would be a good idea, but don't choose coal mines that are too close
04:00:35 <Supercheese> transporting coal over longer distances is more profitable
04:00:44 <Supercheese> and if you're purely interested in abusing game mechanics for profit...
04:01:17 <Supercheese> then try and build a station piece on the far side of the coal mine, then ctrl+build to join the station you really will use on the closer side
04:01:30 <Supercheese> the distance that counts for profit is from one station sign to the other sign
04:01:49 <Supercheese> so if you "cheat" and make the signs far away while keeping the actual rails much closer, you gain more profit
04:04:40 <TartarusMkII> oh I see lol wow
04:04:44 <Supercheese> Note how the actual signs are farther away that the train route
04:04:55 <Supercheese> this can be abused up to the maximum station spread allowed
04:05:14 <TartarusMkII> that's hilarious
04:05:33 <Supercheese> also: trains running diagonally, like the primary track shown, make more money than horizontally
04:05:36 <TartarusMkII> also here, why do you have so many signals?
04:05:40 <Supercheese> this one I'm not quite as sure why
04:06:13 <Supercheese> Well, I eventually boosted the output of that bauxite mine that I need eleven trains to keep up with the production
04:06:27 <Supercheese> so I needed enough signals so that the eleven trains could keep running
04:06:50 <Supercheese> I planned for this early on so I wouldn't have to change too much to increase capacity
04:06:58 <Supercheese> just clone some more trains
04:08:02 <TartarusMkII> are those rails that narrow down into just one rail line each on the west and east side like, one way or something?
04:08:19 <Supercheese> yes, the red & white bar on the signals means one-way signals
04:08:35 <Supercheese> so the trains loop around as shown, so they do not have to reverse and block the path of other trains
04:08:55 <Supercheese> the concept is known as Roll On, Roll Off, abbreviated as Ro-Ro
04:09:26 <Supercheese> the wiki contains a wealth of information; I need to leave, be back in a bit
04:09:56 <TartarusMkII> ty very much mate
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05:15:24 <TartarusMkII> SO I've got a question: I have a bunch of trains serving a train station who's sole resource is coal from a coal mine. The coal mine is making more coal from all the stimulus, butthe station itself is not taking up this coal fast enough. Why is that?
05:17:18 <Supercheese> the station only takes cargo from the mine in relation to its Station Rating
05:17:48 <Supercheese> so if Coal is rated 70% at that station, it will take 70% of the coal from the mine
05:18:01 <Supercheese> it is essentially impossible to get a 100% rating
05:18:17 <Supercheese> a perplexing design choice but that's the way it was in TTD
05:18:54 <TartarusMkII> I See, thanks thanks
05:19:28 <TartarusMkII> Sorry to make you post that again, now I understand the connection.
06:15:05 <Flygon> You CAN get a 100% approval rating
06:15:18 <Supercheese> jumping through hoops within hoops
06:15:24 <Supercheese> it's highly nontrivial
06:15:27 <Flygon> You just need to set up a bot to constantly advertise the hell out of your company atthe nearby city
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07:36:15 <supermop> remaining pub details will wait until the next pub i do
07:36:55 <Flygon> Need a "Mad Max Town and Transport set"
07:38:34 <supermop> i dont know why the yucca bush in the garden renders for the detail perspective, but not in the dimetric
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07:47:14 <chillcore> good morning interwebz o/
07:50:52 <chillcore> and how are you this morning?
07:52:20 <supermop> it's a rainy afternoon for me
07:54:14 <chillcore> I hate rain ... and it really is morning 06.53 to be exact
07:54:49 <chillcore> the whole of europe has gone bananas and changed their clocks to a fictive hour ...
07:55:35 <supermop> we justed changed the other way down here!
07:56:17 <chillcore> hehe ... I have changed al my auto clocks back to winter time ...
07:56:51 <chillcore> but I am thingking to change it to 7:25 now and using +-30mins all year round instead
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08:02:00 <chillcore> I should really get cracking on changing MHL to do the right thing ... and not chase people away from wanting to play with moreheghtlevels
08:02:29 <chillcore> just ... finding motivation
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08:12:31 <chillcore> I had a better look at trunk yesterday ... this whole max_height thing is worse then I thought it was
08:13:01 <chillcore> I can rewrite it ... but if I can't even get Devs to commit tgen light ...
08:14:04 <chillcore> as in all of it as is ...
08:16:17 <supermop> what does the max ht do?
08:17:53 <chillcore> it should limit certain things ...
08:18:17 <chillcore> so NewGRF have something to base themselves on ...
08:18:57 <chillcore> the sad thing is that anything even remotely smelling like maxheight is attached to that same value
08:19:44 <chillcore> eg generating terrain from a a heightmap will set that value
08:20:03 <chillcore> but generating a normal game will set that value too
08:20:14 <chillcore> why is beyond me and completely not needed
08:20:48 <chillcore> also snowline should not use it ... it should be set at game start and use the top tile at that moment to never change ingame
08:21:05 <chillcore> same for tropical ... top tile and never change
08:21:17 <chillcore> and that is just the start of it
08:22:08 <chillcore> exporting heightmaps ... instead of preserving what the terrain actually is ... lets use that value again and use whatever comes out the other end
08:22:30 <chillcore> so scenario editor can not get the map they used to have
08:23:07 <chillcore> the most obvious thing ... maxheight at 255 and get maps that are nowhere near that
08:23:15 <chillcore> normal mapgen that is
08:23:34 <chillcore> all heightmaps on bananas ar fucked
08:23:40 <chillcore> pardon me my french
08:23:58 <chillcore> I can give you an example if you want
08:24:22 <supermop> cant you just manually set snowline january and july?
08:24:42 <chillcore> newgGRF use a percentage of that value
08:24:53 <supermop> why does snow car what the max is, it should just snow on every tile above set line
08:26:30 <Supercheese> Hmm, now I want to make Vintage Helidepots and Helistations...
08:27:15 <Supercheese> should be able to re-use the tiles like I did for Vintage Commuter
08:28:38 <chillcore> nice ... just make sure you re-use stuffs you're allowed to re-use
08:29:25 <chillcore> you don't want some takedown notice chasing you
08:30:20 <chillcore> but yeah maxheight ... all of the above is just the start of it
08:30:41 <chillcore> I need commit access :P
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08:32:03 <Supercheese> yeah, I have no idea if the MariCo license is compatible with the OGFX+ one, so I probably won't be submitting the seaplane ports
08:32:18 <Supercheese> but the rest only use the existing sprites
08:34:26 <chillcore> hmm I'm not familiar with the MariCo license
08:34:37 <Supercheese> I linked it along the screens I posted
08:35:15 <chillcore> just anything that comes from simuscape you want to steer clear of ... with a wide curve
08:36:40 <V453000> MariCo is from mb isnt it?
08:36:56 <V453000> then either custom or no license I would assume :P
08:37:05 <V453000> which is very not ogfx+
08:37:25 <chillcore> ye ... let me check his license ... not all simuscape members are assholes
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08:41:04 <chillcore> waiting for newgrfs to be scanned ... all 3421 of them ...
08:41:29 <chillcore> I need to move this thing ...
08:43:08 <V453000> I dont really use the old versions anymore anyway, and non-bananas stuff is just out of the question for multiplayer or sharing savegame with anybody
08:43:27 <chillcore> it does not show here in the gui ... and these versins do not work so ...
08:43:50 <Supercheese> It was .html alongside the downloaded archive
08:43:55 <Supercheese> so OTTD likely will not read it
08:45:00 <V453000> ttdpatch.de looks borken
08:45:55 <chillcore> I dunno ... no https means "site is not gone" for as far as I am concerned
08:46:31 <V453000> Copyright Notice MariCo Set - © 2010 - 2014 Michael Blunck - All Rights Reserved. Permission to use, copy and distribute this software (consisting of the graphics and its implementation code) and its documentation for non-commercial purposes, without fee and without a signed licensing agreement, is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice, this paragraph and the following four paragraphs appear in all copies and distributi
08:47:02 <Supercheese> Suitable ambiguous
08:47:05 <Supercheese> complete with ALLCAPS
08:47:48 <chillcore> reads simuscape enough to me
08:48:16 <V453000> just a normal non-free license
08:48:21 <V453000> Pikka has a similar one doesnt he
08:48:41 <chillcore> anyhoo modification is not allowed ... smple as that
08:48:50 <Supercheese> Pikka has a minimalist license
08:48:53 <Supercheese> like a single line
08:49:21 <Supercheese> and it can be read in OTTD
08:49:39 <chillcore> ye me too "GPL v2 NOT later"
08:50:13 <chillcore> means yo can take my code but you do not have ot give back the source
08:50:35 <V453000> I thought that was the whole point of gpl XD
08:50:41 <V453000> but yeah I heard v3 is bs
08:50:44 <chillcore> lobby ... nuff said
08:50:59 <Supercheese> I floundered around a bit and in the end chose a Creative Commons license, since I did not have permission to distribute sources with most of my grfs
08:51:23 <chillcore> most peeps do not read and use v2 or later
08:51:49 <chillcore> then some shit company comes along and sais "what source" I used v3
08:52:29 <Supercheese> Yeah, I saw several of my favorite grfs did, so figured it couldn't be that bad eh
08:52:29 <chillcore> I have a custom license for my minecrafft mod
08:52:43 <chillcore> "don't be an asshole"
08:52:55 <V453000> not just because of permissions but also because I do not wish for some idiot to come and say "give me code immediately" ... which I think is questionnable, but many discussions in this channel felt to me like "we dont know" :D
08:53:21 <V453000> hard to define asshole though :P
08:53:43 <chillcore> I explained a little bit
08:54:34 <chillcore> "please re-use code or learn from it , please do not re-use textures and make your own model, so much more fun"
08:54:52 <chillcore> "you may make a texture ... if good enough I will include it"
08:54:58 <chillcore> something like that
08:55:36 <chillcore> also no commercial use ... so not behind addfly links
08:56:04 <chillcore> ^^^ tat has tracking built in
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08:58:40 <chillcore> moar coffee before I plunge myself into this madness again
09:00:23 <supermop> idk what to license houses...
09:00:49 <supermop> i want to keep a gulf between these stations, and houses
09:01:32 <supermop> i want stations to be possible to go into a future ogfx+
09:02:01 <supermop> houses... i'm not sure what i want to happen there but i want to use as a portfolio piece
09:02:07 <chillcore> it is your sprites ... you can dual license
09:02:39 <supermop> to show architecture firms that i was not totally wasting my time in aus
09:03:04 <supermop> by doing a study of Melbourne vernacular architecture
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09:04:04 <supermop> and using those models or sprites in a procedural house generator or something that explores the variations of building styles here
09:04:16 <supermop> of course gpl should be ok for that
09:04:27 <supermop> but there are a few odd bits
09:04:51 <supermop> like bracket i designed for pub sign, etched glass over pub door,
09:05:40 <supermop> use amotife that i want to protect as logo or branding for my other design work; the furniture and products i design
09:05:59 <supermop> logo is not trademarked yet as i am still experimenting with it
09:06:22 <supermop> but i think if i distribute is freely in there, then i cannot claim ownership of it later?
09:06:33 <chillcore> you retain ownership
09:06:47 <V453000> if you want anything to: 1. go with opengfx or any other GPLv2 thing, or 2. work on something with multiple people, then GPLv2 is probably the way to go
09:06:59 <V453000> assuming you want to share full source
09:07:07 <supermop> like i wanted to put wooden stool out back of pub, that i am sitting on right now
09:07:13 <supermop> my own design and i built it
09:07:32 <chillcore> go with something more closed for now ...
09:07:52 <supermop> but if i have rendering of stool in a free set, can i still protect stool design when it comes to making the stool?
09:08:23 <V453000> what do you mean protect?
09:08:30 <V453000> nobody else can create the same or similar thing?
09:08:50 <V453000> OR re-sharing your source?
09:08:55 <supermop> if i sell it then see same stool on alibaba for sale
09:09:17 <V453000> if people re-share your source, re-use it or anything, they must say you made it, that is the point of the license
09:09:23 <V453000> ha, that I am unsure about
09:09:32 <supermop> actually i think it would be cool to release stool as free furniture (i give you designs for free, you build it yourself) as i designed it to be easy to make with just hand tools
09:09:41 <V453000> but I mean, it would make sense
09:10:20 <V453000> A) you provide it for free with license requirements of GPLv2, B) for people who need to use it in commercial use / not GPLv2, they can buy it with custom license - in that shop
09:10:49 <chillcore> GPL v2 and others do not exlde comercial use
09:11:07 <chillcore> I am allowed to sell openttd
09:11:22 <chillcore> or my patchpack for that matter
09:11:23 <V453000> that sounds incorrect
09:11:29 <chillcore> nope that is the way it is
09:11:45 <chillcore> say you buy a copy of me
09:11:59 <chillcore> I can not stop you from giving it away for free
09:12:00 <V453000> that doesnt make sense to me, if you re-use GPLv2 things, you must use GPLv2 license, no? it is self-reproducive
09:12:05 <supermop> or what if i want to sell furniture models on unreal or other marketplace for people to use in their levels...
09:12:39 <chillcore> it is your work supermop
09:12:40 <V453000> I would say it is still your thing and you are the author supermop so you can do whatever you want with it, under any circumstances
09:12:47 <chillcore> I can sell your chair
09:12:53 <chillcore> but I can not claim it as mine
09:13:11 <chillcore> if I make the legs shorter I must state so
09:13:26 <chillcore> so if it ends up wobbly your rep is not damaged
09:13:48 <supermop> well i think it will be months before houses can ship as set as i have no coder and only one 'finished' model, and 8 black white cottages
09:14:15 <chillcore> yeah don't add a license just yet ;)
09:14:24 <chillcore> no license is no permissions
09:14:49 <supermop> for both houses and stations i need to convince someone to help code, so i will be influenced by what they want to license as
09:15:01 <chillcore> if here is really stuffs you'd like to protect ... don't add it but replace it with something you do want to share
09:15:02 <supermop> i can remove any sensitive chairs before then
09:15:27 <supermop> need to make more beer murals
09:15:45 <supermop> i wanted kirby bitter to be kirby draught
09:15:59 <supermop> changed at last moment because idk
09:16:11 <supermop> so i think i will do ginzu draft
09:16:28 <supermop> as a pilsner with A4 as mascot
09:17:05 <supermop> and 8P as the shitty queensland beer (in place of 4X)
09:17:18 <supermop> sorry to pikka if he likes 4X
09:17:48 <supermop> but may have Ginzu be a pub instead of a beer
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09:41:06 <Supercheese> Sidetracked again by another feature I want to add... sigh
09:41:26 <chillcore> haha kjoin the club
09:42:11 <Supercheese> "Let's play a game of OTTD! But wait what grfs should I use..." Week later finally sorted what grfs I want, after modifying a couple of them to suit my needs
09:42:15 <chillcore> I was going to look at MHL and that maxh_height all over the code ... wondering where all these settings went that used to be there
09:42:33 <chillcore> now looking at vanilla config file :P
09:42:35 <Supercheese> "Ok, let's actually play this!" Play for few hours, "Hmm, this feature needs to happen. Like, now."
09:42:41 <Supercheese> Weeks later... here I am
09:43:01 <Supercheese> Glad to know I'm not the only one :)
09:43:02 <V453000> I have played 1 single game with YETI so far
09:43:12 <V453000> 0.0.1 was released a year ago
09:43:31 <Supercheese> Yes, it does seem like there's a club I have joined ;)
09:43:32 <chillcore> let's just say I have yet to finish my first game with my own patchpack xD
09:43:56 <Supercheese> ah well, I got my hours upon days upon hours of TTD when I was a lad
09:44:11 <Supercheese> easily it's my all-time most played game, including OTTD of course
09:44:18 <chillcore> ye coding playing it is the same fun for me
09:44:25 <Flygon> You're making me want to play that Iceland scenario
09:44:34 <Flygon> Because I gotta colourize these animations
09:44:54 <Flygon> Finish Bravely Default...
09:46:49 <Flygon> I'm also waiting on the next revision of 2CC trainset
09:46:55 <Supercheese> Jeez yeah so many games in my backlog
09:47:05 <Supercheese> I haven't even unlocked every fighter in Smash Bros. yet
09:47:10 <Supercheese> my younger self would be ashamed of me
09:47:21 <Flygon> Fuck, growing old sucks
09:47:26 <Flygon> You lose motivation to clock everything
09:47:53 <Flygon> WHY BACK IN MY DAY WE WENT FROM LEVEL 1 TO 100 IN POKEMON INSIDE THE SPACE OF AN HOUR FROM STARTING THE GAME
09:48:05 <Flygon> OF COURSE, YOU KIDDIES WOULDN'T KNOW THAT. WHAT WITH YOUR FORCED TUTORIALS.
09:48:27 <chillcore> I hope openttd does not get dumbed down like that
09:48:45 <Flygon> Every time you open up the game
09:48:59 <Flygon> "Hey buddie! Let's learn how to build a Bus!"
09:49:12 <Supercheese> Achievement Unlocked: First Train Station Built!
09:49:28 <V453000> at the same time, OpenTTD is not very newbie friendly due to 0 tutorial
09:49:43 <Flygon> Supercheese: True achievement is "First train station built larger than 8 International Airports"
09:49:44 <V453000> and youtube tutorial is just too outside imo
09:49:51 <chillcore> "we removed all options cause the dumdums can not handle having options"
09:49:55 <Supercheese> there is that Tut script
09:49:59 <Supercheese> but it's not at all obvious
09:50:09 <Flygon> My SPECIAL ATTACK is just low
09:50:12 <Supercheese> you have to know what you're looking for to find it
09:50:13 <V453000> how many players will get the idea to get a tut script after installing the game
09:50:18 <Supercheese> which sort of defeats the purpose
09:50:22 <Flygon> MY ATTACK POWER IS AWESOME HOWEVER
09:50:27 <Flygon> It's so awesome, so useful
09:50:36 <Flygon> It makes eating Ribs so much easier
09:50:46 <Flygon> I wanna eat Marinated Ribs now.
09:50:47 <Supercheese> NMLLLLLL... parse fasterrrr....
09:51:21 <Flygon> And observed what the AI was doing
09:51:26 <Flygon> Then I built upon that
09:51:29 <Supercheese> There we go, Vintage Airship Stations
09:51:33 <V453000> yes, we all didnt because we played TT, TTD and whatnot
09:51:45 <Flygon> Then came screaming to #openttd "WHY WON'T MY TRAIN WORK?"
09:51:50 <Flygon> Then I get told I'm an idiot
09:51:56 <Flygon> Because I made this REALLY obvious mistake
09:52:24 <chillcore> there are no stupid questions ... only idiot answers
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09:52:29 <V453000> I think it would be nice to have -something- as a tutorial
09:52:37 <V453000> how many people have any idea how signals work
09:52:44 <V453000> 1way, 2way, block, path, ...
09:52:53 <V453000> most people dont even know which way the signal is looking etc
09:52:57 <chillcore> there is avery nice tutorial savegame for that
09:53:04 <chillcore> a very nice one indeed
09:53:18 <V453000> sure, there is hundreds of nice savegames and videos
09:53:37 <V453000> but if it isnt inside of the game and when you launch the game you dont see a big "TUTORIAL" button, it isnt quite useful
09:54:00 <V453000> I just played factorio recently and at least some guide to show you how to do stuff, is helpful.
09:54:14 <V453000> especially since there is a ton of complexity to discover later
09:54:37 <chillcore> not yet played that one
09:54:39 <V453000> I think it is the n1 problem of OpenTTD - starting complexity
09:54:58 <V453000> and unexplained, unintuitive things, which just cause myths among players, etc
09:55:20 <chillcore> ye but that is no reason to simplify it to the point older players have no fun no more
09:55:23 <V453000> there was a lot of similar clutter around openttdcoop ... about more complex things, but still. The solution was to simply write it on the wiki, write it in blogs, and let people know
09:55:35 <V453000> well, the tutorial is not mandatory
09:55:52 <V453000> making a tutorial does not harm old players at all
09:55:54 <supermop> man now i'm thinking to add string of lights going from pub to tree
09:56:08 <chillcore> I like them pro games V453000
09:56:20 <chillcore> the others too but yeah
09:56:33 <Flygon> Did the original game have a tutorial?
09:56:57 <chillcore> hmm ... good question
09:57:22 <chillcore> I played TTO on PSX for a few hours
09:57:37 <chillcore> can't remember really
09:58:23 <chillcore> but I did not keep it ... stupid me
09:58:33 <Flygon> My origin story for getting into OTTD was really stupid
09:58:39 <Flygon> I met a furry and he referred me to this game
09:58:41 <supermop> tto had one in the demo i think
09:58:44 <Flygon> Because he thougtht I like trains
09:58:44 <chillcore> in those days you could rent games and I was like yeah gonna buy this later
09:58:58 <chillcore> never saw a copy again :/
09:59:08 <supermop> yeah also booklet in the box
09:59:11 <Flygon> Is there rip on Internet?
09:59:14 <Supercheese> TTD definitely had an in-game tutorial
09:59:16 <Supercheese> I remember it well
09:59:30 <Supercheese> it was essentially hard-coded mouse actions IIRC
09:59:31 <chillcore> maybe but that is not the same thing Flygon
09:59:51 <Supercheese> so if something for some reason went wrong in the tut, it would just fail miserably and start spazzing out
09:59:52 <chillcore> still looking for a cdrom version of TTD too
10:00:07 <Supercheese> because the mouse actions would still be executed even when they failed to produce the proper results
10:00:27 <chillcore> Flygon: a digital copy is not something I can hold in my hands or put on my glory shelf
10:00:42 <Supercheese> jeez I might have the DOS TTD CD lying around in a box somewhere
10:00:53 <Supercheese> probably deep in storage though
10:00:57 <chillcore> how much do you wan for it?
10:01:05 <Supercheese> ha, I'd have to find it first
10:01:14 <Supercheese> cannot in good faith make any sort of promise
10:01:26 <chillcore> look for it first ;)
10:01:45 <Supercheese> I think I will :)
10:01:53 <chillcore> and send me a PM later ... only if you want to really part from it
10:02:02 <chillcore> don't do things you may regret
10:02:17 <Supercheese> AAaaaagh, I swear that my Firefox is not rendering these colors properly
10:02:17 <chillcore> cause I ain't sending it back :P
10:02:25 <Supercheese> I upload screenshots and they look weeeird
10:02:49 <Flygon> How many monitors do you have?
10:03:01 <Supercheese> need to try in a different browser
10:03:52 <Supercheese> I... don't seem to have any other web browser. Hmm.
10:04:00 <chillcore> what format are you exporting them to?
10:04:34 <chillcore> your screenies look fine here though
10:04:42 <Supercheese> probably some funny thing on my local browser
10:04:53 <supermop> my pngs always look different on forum than in game
10:04:56 <Supercheese> maybe one of the dozen addons is screwing with it
10:05:07 <chillcore> that woud not surprise me one bit
10:06:02 <Flygon> (I have 4 different monitors in active use on my work area... each has different colour and brightness)
10:06:15 <Flygon> (but only one's actually calibrated anyway)
10:06:21 <Flygon> (the 21in CRT that's used as a TV)
10:06:24 <Supercheese> Yep, it's definitely just Firefox
10:06:29 <Flygon> (also, TV stations REALLY suck at colour calibration)
10:06:31 <Supercheese> I wonder why on earth it does that...
10:06:38 <Flygon> (all their whites are YELLOW)
10:06:43 <Flygon> (except for when they ARE white)
10:07:16 <chillcore> disable 1 plugin at a time, or disable all and re-enable one at a time Supercheese
10:08:20 <chillcore> I disabled all plugins except for OpenH246 codec
10:08:27 <chillcore> all the rest is not needed
10:08:41 <chillcore> I have them at ask to activate
10:09:09 <Supercheese> Ah, it is not just me
10:09:54 <chillcore> yeah it seems like it
10:10:24 <Supercheese> their test images show the exact same blues-shifted-to-purples issue
10:10:28 <chillcore> what version do you have of firefox?
10:10:41 <Supercheese> apparently, not the latest
10:10:59 <Supercheese> time to update it seems
10:11:06 <chillcore> 36.0.1 here and I am good
10:12:02 <supermop> fighting tempation to model the interior of this put
10:13:51 <chillcore> Supercheese: this helps?
10:13:54 <Supercheese> Bring on the Hindenburg
10:13:56 <chillcore> please try setting gfx.color_management.mode to 1 in about:config. If you do that, then the PNG and the surrounding HTML/CSS elements should all be getting the same color management treatment. With the default value, 2, the images get color managed but other elements don't.
10:14:09 <chillcore> got that from the link you posted earlier ...
10:14:36 <chillcore> it helped that other dude ...
10:15:34 <chillcore> hmm pngs were still screwed ... reading on
10:16:07 <Supercheese> yeah no immediate improvement
10:16:58 <supermop> doing rendering from camera looking out window onto beer garden
10:17:07 <chillcore> seting it to 0? that shoudl be no colour correction
10:17:24 <supermop> those tables need some pitchers of beer on them
10:18:20 <supermop> house set morphs into elaborate VR pub simulation
10:20:53 <Supercheese> so weird, the .gif is fine but the .pngs are bollocks in Firefox
10:22:36 <supermop> should model a pho shop
10:22:54 <supermop> a set of VN sets would be great
10:24:10 <Flygon> supermop: iirc, VR actually did run pubs
10:24:18 <Flygon> Not 100% sure on that tho
10:24:25 <Flygon> They definitely had a childcare division tho
10:28:09 <supermop> going to melt my gpu with these beer glasses
10:28:24 <supermop> no yellow cylinders for me
10:28:58 <chillcore> hmm ... too much polygons?
10:29:06 <V453000> refraction with caustics :P
10:29:25 <chillcore> a pub with no beer ... yay
10:29:51 <chillcore> put kegs on the tables :P
10:30:07 <V453000> idk if rhino has SSS?
10:30:15 <V453000> sub-surface scattering
10:32:44 <chillcore> hmm my settings in my patchpack seem not to stick no more ...
10:32:53 <chillcore> what is this voodoo ...
10:35:11 <Supercheese> .cfg issue? I sometimes open multiple instances of OTTD and then they change the .cfg on exit
10:35:19 <Supercheese> so whichever I close last saves the changes
10:35:53 <chillcore> maybe that is what happened yes, while testing and comparing yesterday
10:35:59 <supermop> hmm not sure if flamingo does but it can do some pretty intense optics
10:36:21 <supermop> like you could model a telescope and render a view looking through it
10:36:56 <supermop> one of the tutorials goes into 'index of refraction of single malt whiskey'
10:37:31 <V453000> I think about every 3D thing has IOR
10:37:40 <Supercheese> Damn, I wish I was on that research project
10:37:50 <V453000> cool idea about trying it with a telescope though
10:38:04 <Supercheese> "Well, we got the optical index, now we just have to drink this or it'll go to waste"
10:39:55 <supermop> my beer looks like pee
10:42:44 * chillcore does MHL fixing on top of tgen light patch
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10:43:08 <chillcore> this terrain pokes my eyes too much
10:43:28 <supermop> gah why did i put the beer on a slatted table with a polished aluminum base with light mottled by tree leaves
10:43:38 <supermop> computer going to melt
10:44:07 <chillcore> ara you leaving a one unit gap between surfaces?
10:44:40 <chillcore> if the beer touches the table the table top gets fragmented
10:45:03 <chillcore> giving you way more polygons than needed
10:45:16 <chillcore> same for all the other surfaces
10:46:28 <chillcore> noone is going to look there for a tiny gapsie
10:47:02 <supermop> rhino doesnt use polygons
10:47:49 <supermop> hmm i think im supposed to give the surface that is the boundry between beer and glass an ior thats halfway between the two
10:48:04 <supermop> tutorial did not tell be ior of beer though!
10:48:14 <V453000> rhino is all nurbs-ish?
10:51:12 <supermop> you can creat polygon meshes though
10:51:23 <supermop> for exporting of stereo lithography
10:51:49 <supermop> the mesh is a separate object from the surface or polysurface
10:54:15 <supermop> man there is really no reason to have rendered a close-up shot of beer glasses with a whole pub in scene out of frame...
10:55:46 <V453000> I also rendered closeups and perspective-enabled shots when I was making yeti
10:56:10 <supermop> next stop in destroying my computer: create a logo for kirby paul draught and etch it onto the glasses with a bump map
11:02:41 <Supercheese> Here lies: Desktop ID#489461 20XX-2015. It Rendered unto Caesar what was Caesar's, and now it is Rendering unto God what is God's. R.I.P.
11:03:01 <Supercheese> that is probably only funny to me because it is 2 AM
11:03:21 <Supercheese> render puns... yeah not so much
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11:05:02 <chillcore> Supercheese: reminds me of that p4 while compiling and debugging too many versions at once ... RIP
11:08:25 <supermop> and desktop= 13" laptop
11:08:45 <supermop> im surprised this guy hasn't burst into flames already
11:09:16 <chillcore> they used to build things sturdy ... used
11:10:11 <supermop> hmm i reused the same wood bumpmap for the teak table as i did for the railroad ties - looks a little grainy up close
11:10:24 <chillcore> games used to be quite bugfree too on release ... now they have "coming soon" allover
11:10:39 <supermop> added more foam, still looks like pee
11:10:56 <chillcore> gotta have those too
11:11:22 <supermop> cancel the render! have to model bowl of individual nuts!
11:12:00 <supermop> noting simple like peanuts though - shelled walnuts
11:12:35 <Supercheese> Oh hmm OGFX+ does climate-dependent previews
11:12:43 <Supercheese> guess I'll have to do those too
11:12:54 <Supercheese> a job for tomorrow; good night all
11:13:16 <supermop> good work Supercheese
11:13:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 18 hours, 39 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
11:15:45 <supermop> haha i was wondering on the first pass why the chunky glass on the bottom looked grainy - turns out its refracting the bumpy bricks behind it
11:16:21 <supermop> these are really the wrong shape glass for this beer though
11:16:30 <chillcore> yeah that will kill your pc for sure
11:17:24 <chillcore> how many times is light reflected?
11:17:34 <chillcore> that is a killer too
11:17:39 <supermop> well tulip glasses for ale will melt it faster
11:18:01 <andythenorth> if andythenorth was rendereing
11:18:12 <supermop> he would render beer glasses?
11:18:21 * andythenorth would turn off transparency, refraction, radiosity etc
11:18:22 <supermop> i have no idea why i am even doing these
11:18:54 <supermop> they are certainly not going into game sprites
11:18:56 <chillcore> supermop: because you can ... the only valid reason
11:19:18 <kamnet> You're doing it because you're avoiding further work on MLSS :P
11:19:35 <supermop> 5th anniversary in a couple months
11:19:51 <supermop> should really fix the problems in it before then
11:19:51 <kamnet> You should get that whipped into shape, then!
11:20:14 <kamnet> And then get it on nanna market
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11:21:08 <supermop> i may actually do plain yellow cylinders on tables for game sprites
11:21:34 <supermop> or beer bottles that are neither hollow nor contain beer
11:22:20 <supermop> just a brown cylinder with cone on top
11:22:58 <andythenorth> Japan lacks an industry set
11:23:07 <kamnet> MLSS 32bpp sprites? :D
11:23:29 <kamnet> There was some discussion of oen years ago Andy
11:23:44 <supermop> what would be japan specific and also fun to play?
11:23:50 <supermop> i cant think of much
11:23:58 <supermop> not enough raw materials
11:24:23 <supermop> fishing grounds and fish market
11:24:37 * andythenorth trades in stereotypes apparently
11:24:42 <supermop> tsukiji is closing soon....
11:25:31 <supermop> would rice differ from grain gameplay wise?
11:26:14 <supermop> export kikkoman shoyu
11:26:40 <supermop> i mean there are still a lot of cars and industrial robots built there
11:26:47 <supermop> some heavy shipbuilding
11:27:24 <supermop> trains built for export
11:28:05 <supermop> gah hurry up i want to see my beer foam already
11:28:14 <kamnet> Agriculture: rice, soybean, root vegetables, livestock, forestry.
11:28:54 <andythenorth> with FIRS economies, it doesn’t matter so much if rice is different from grain
11:28:57 <supermop> i feel like slightly different sprites and firs has it covered
11:29:07 <andythenorth> localisation with no gameplay effect is valid for economies
11:29:34 <supermop> japan could use a non foamer train set
11:29:43 <supermop> i like the jr set a lot
11:29:44 <kamnet> There's some slight coal and iron mining operations, and soe offshore oil and natural gas rigs.
11:29:49 <supermop> but its a bit academic
11:30:11 <supermop> IH: chrysanthemum roster would be nice
11:31:11 <supermop> vietnam better for industry set
11:33:07 <kamnet> You could adapt Port and Bulk Terminal to provide much of what Japan needs for imports. Food, energy, raw materials. Chief exports are cars, electronics, and most of the economy is centered around finance.
11:35:39 <supermop> yeah finance less fun
11:36:09 <supermop> but jr set is so passenger focused, as is the jr network, i don't mind
11:36:56 <supermop> i honestly enjoy spening a whole game timetabling EMUs to cram into a station seamlessly
11:40:32 <andythenorth> China Sea economy set
11:40:38 <andythenorth> “For all the tea in China"
11:40:43 <andythenorth> “Fragrant Harbour"
11:40:57 * andythenorth worries about straying into accidentally controversial terms
11:41:08 <andythenorth> “Sea of Poppies” :P
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11:46:04 <chillcore> ^^^ just making connections with yesterday ... nvm
11:46:11 <kamnet> "Milk of the Poppies". Hey. Game of Thrones economy. :D
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11:48:00 <chillcore> hmm two of them ... must be the beer XD
11:48:02 * andythenorth ponders an economy where Great Britain ships opium from Indian to Hong Kong
11:48:07 <andythenorth> backed by gunboats
11:50:06 <supermop_> a lot of melbourne terraced cottages are similar tectonically to chinese and vietnamese 18th and 19th century shophouses
11:50:47 <supermop_> wondered about trying to crank out an indochina town set eventually
11:51:47 <supermop_> could do some of it by just reconstituting parts
11:53:27 <supermop_> phnom penh and saigon buildings are a whole different animal
11:54:18 <andythenorth> 5 year old is asking for twisty bridges and twisty tunnels
11:56:03 <supermop_> sounds like the right idea
11:56:36 <kamnet> Wozers, 5 years old already? It really has been awhile since I've been here on a regular basis.
11:56:57 <kamnet> My oldest just turned 18.
11:57:35 * andythenorth leaves him alone with bridge_map.cpp
11:57:36 <andythenorth> 34yr6rri fxdsani\n; 7kfkzxcdksmssi3nu3213467o[]ujbggjk,,......qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
11:57:39 <andythenorth> probably won’t work
11:58:55 <andythenorth> he really wants diagonal :P
11:59:53 <kamnet> Set him to work on drawing sprites!
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12:00:55 <chillcore> <andythenorth> 34yr6rri fxdsani\n; 7kfkzxcdksmssi3nu3213467o[]ujbggjk,,......qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq <- so cute
12:02:23 * andythenorth doesn’t know much C++, but I think it’s wrong
12:07:58 <chillcore> yay phone ... I'll have a lot less free time available soon-ish, I hope
12:09:10 <chillcore> I've got an appointment the 6th of may
12:10:05 <chillcore> it is a new project they may start because I asked via via ... oxfam
12:10:33 <chillcore> ther will be some other peeps too ... for yet another project
12:11:01 <chillcore> and then I am looking for a third
12:11:10 <kamnet> I need another job too
12:11:31 <chillcore> and not to help the rich get richer ... In yer face bozos
12:11:56 <chillcore> not that I have something against rich peeps
12:12:24 <chillcore> as long as they did not become it at the expense of ... I'm cool
12:12:44 <chillcore> at least I got peeps listening
12:14:47 <chillcore> now I just need a hobby that will make me rich :P
12:15:13 * andythenorth gets rich on newgrfs
12:15:29 <chillcore> that is a nice kind of rich
12:15:59 <andythenorth> but rubidi*m charges a high fee for the store
12:16:03 <andythenorth> so I am still penniless
12:16:28 <chillcore> I was thinking about donating some of my broadbband but the amount of it ...
12:16:31 <planetmaker> it's all operation costs ;)
12:16:49 <chillcore> I can spare 100GB a month at 6 up
12:17:02 <chillcore> but at 500GB my speed goes down so ...
12:17:15 <planetmaker> our mirrors have a monthy rate around 2TB
12:17:26 <planetmaker> iirc. Not sure really
12:18:02 <chillcore> any idea to what belgium amounts?
12:18:08 <planetmaker> well, the coop server could take some as well. But it's too near the existing mirrors :)
12:18:52 <planetmaker> thus Belgium is 0.5% of our traffic ;)
12:19:01 <planetmaker> (plus those with .com from belgium)
12:19:05 <planetmaker> and .net .org etc
12:19:29 <chillcore> thanks for the link planetmaker
12:21:03 <planetmaker> but those stats don't include our online content traffic afaik
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12:22:05 <planetmaker> it's just web traffic of our main server
12:22:34 <chillcore> hmm ok because I was just trying to figure out how much 19994607 KB is actually
12:23:21 <chillcore> brain on the fritz :P
12:23:33 <chillcore> with that phonecall ...
12:24:43 <chillcore> that I can do no prob
12:25:05 <planetmaker> but we use no mirrors for our web traffic :) Only bananas is mirrored
12:25:09 <chillcore> I could set up my homeserver so it does not tax my pc
12:25:43 <planetmaker> or basically all downloads. As our openttd binaries etc are also mirrored
12:25:56 <planetmaker> binaries are large compared to a bit of website traffic :)
12:25:58 <chillcore> someone suggested seeding them
12:26:10 <chillcore> which seems like a good-ish idea
12:26:28 <chillcore> even if just the stables
12:26:30 <planetmaker> maybe. Personally I've no clue how complex that is to arrange
12:27:07 <chillcore> I start, you pull, we seed, they pull, we all seed
12:27:14 <chillcore> it grows exponentially
12:27:36 <chillcore> but for nightlies ... hmm
12:28:28 <chillcore> just thinking out loud ...
12:28:58 <chillcore> the thing is it has a bad ring to it
12:29:14 <chillcore> most peeps think it is exlusively for pirates
12:29:21 <chillcore> which is not the case at all
12:29:33 <chillcore> justthat there are pirates too
12:30:05 <chillcore> not all on there was pirated stuffs
12:30:39 <chillcore> same as with youtube ... they should take it dwn ... all of it :P
12:30:49 <chillcore> someone posted a movie
12:31:46 * andythenorth wonders if the world is better or worse without YouTube
12:32:17 <chillcore> I like the tubes ...
12:32:48 <chillcore> you get to choose what nonsense you watch xD
12:34:43 <chillcore> I like this dude ... he makes sense
12:37:07 <chillcore> other vids are available :P
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14:59:51 <kamnet> Windows 10 will be distributed and updated via torrents. Many open source projects (off the top of my head, LibreOffice) also distribute via torrent.
15:18:54 <Samu> when creating a patch and selecting files, the .vcxproj files are always in the way. Is is possible to automatically exclude them from being added to the patch everytime I am to create one?
15:22:48 <planetmaker> however you should not need to change those
15:25:02 <planetmaker> (and a meaningful answer to your question depends on the VCS and tools you use - check their respective help)
15:27:52 <Samu> i use visual studio express 2013 for windows desktop
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15:37:43 <Gderckx> Hi Anyone, can you tell me how I can get 32Bpp graphics in open TTD V1.4.4, I tried the tutorials via Youtube but the http://jupix.... link is not working.
15:38:06 <V453000> download zbase or some other 32bpp newgrfs
15:39:19 <Gderckx> Thanks for the fast reply, I can see some 32Bpp sets in thge newgrf settings but cannot find the Zbase one
15:39:59 <V453000> zbase is not a newgrf, it is a base set
15:40:06 <V453000> you need to activate it through the Game Options
15:40:08 <V453000> or something like that
15:40:43 <Gderckx> OK, and where can I get the base set as the only base set available in the game options is OPENGFX
15:41:03 <V453000> from the download content
15:41:25 <V453000> put zbase in the filter there or search for category base set
15:41:37 <V453000> then you just download it and then you can choose it as a base set
15:43:03 <Gderckx> OK, perfect now donwloading!
15:43:43 <V453000> I would also suggest to download RAWR and place it as a static newGRF to improve zbase, but that is up to you :)
15:44:29 <V453000> for vehicles, pineapple trains are great
15:48:19 <Gderckx> Perfect, Zbase now working and loolking great, I will indeed also add RAWR
15:49:07 <chillcore> man these NewGRF names are killing me XD
15:49:35 <Gderckx> Are the tall skyscrapers also included in RAWR?
15:55:31 <V453000> chillcore: NUTS PURR CATS YETI RAWR DOOM :P
15:58:31 <chillcore> Nuts yeti doom-cats purr. Rawr
16:00:03 <chillcore> crazy peeps ... must be train fanatics for sure ... what else?
16:00:04 <Gderckx> Cannot find DOOM and CATS but got the rest now
16:05:06 <chillcore> this base is going to take me weeks to complete just the exterior
16:05:33 *** kamnet_ has joined #openttd
16:08:47 <kamnet_> Lo, my god even struck me from the chat room for even acknowledging their presence!
16:10:01 *** kamnet is now known as Guest1355
16:10:02 *** kamnet_ is now known as kamnet
16:10:31 <chillcore> ah that is how you do it ...
16:10:51 <kamnet> *grumble* Pickey keyboard
16:11:25 <chillcore> hehe ye I have a sensitive mouse like that
16:11:37 <chillcore> always double clicking when it should not
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16:23:33 <chillcore> hmm why does steam keep asking... ofcourse I am born in 1901 XD
16:25:21 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
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16:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe choose 1902 and they stop?
16:28:16 <chillcore> haha, they just ask before viewing inaproprate content ... as do many other places
16:28:40 <chillcore> maybe I should not clear caches all the time ...
16:29:34 <chillcore> it is silly really ... what kid fills in his real date of birth ... it is the first thing they learn
16:30:33 <chillcore> but sometimes you get to see these really funny posts
16:30:59 <chillcore> adults that missclick and now can no access some games no more
16:31:39 <chillcore> hmm come to think of it they just need to log in and out to fix it so cache has little to do with it
16:37:58 <chillcore> Note: The Steam Subscriber Agreement has been updated since you last accepted it. To view the previous version of the Steam Subscriber Agreement, click here.
16:38:12 <chillcore> lol and then make me accept it or lock my acount
16:38:29 <chillcore> no way I am clicking
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16:44:20 <kamnet> Just imagine how popular openttd would be if we had such subscriber agreements
16:49:07 <peter1138> Steam sucks but it does make it easy buy games...
16:56:02 <soupy> So, is there a way to ignore alerts from certain vehicles? "Dammit, I know the feeders aren't making any money!"
16:57:10 <chillcore> true peter ... they have made some changes in regards of european law already but it does not go far enough (yet) for me to restart buying games
16:57:38 <soupy> Also, two boats keep saying they are lost, even though they aren't. I suspect it takes them just a second too long to find their destinations.
16:57:58 <chillcore> soupy: there is a range of options to supress messages in the setting gui
16:58:07 <soupy> I don't want to fully disable the notifications though.
16:58:30 <chillcore> you have options, just have a looksie ;)
16:58:37 <soupy> I like to know when vehicles are lost or not making profit so I can fix my inevitable bad track design.
17:00:38 <soupy> The only options I'm familiar with for this are the options to increase feeder profit allotment, disable no-profit notifications, and disable lost notifications.
17:03:15 <Samu> i feel my patch is ready
17:03:32 <chillcore> just click one on the text and see below for an explanation ;)
17:03:57 <chillcore> if it is still not clear then maybe that string text needs improving?
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17:04:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
17:04:10 <chillcore> feel free to ask a bout a specific setting
17:05:02 <chillcore> notifications and the meaning of their string in the settings gui
17:08:44 <Samu> ship is lost because the pathfinder doesn't know they can make 180º turns when going against wall
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17:15:02 <deep42thought> Hi, I can't login to the bug tracker, but the wiki and account.openttd.org work fine (with the same name & password). Do you have any idea what I might be doing wrong?
17:15:08 <Alberth> what makes you think a ship can do that?
17:16:45 <Alberth> deep42thought: no idea, but maybe TrueBrain Rubidium or planetmaker knows?
17:19:53 <Samu> when the ship find a wall, the only thing it can do is turn around
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17:22:03 <chillcore> and where does the lost come in?
17:22:44 <Samu> when it goes against the wall, it's lost, happens quite often during departing
17:22:47 <Alberth> pathfinder failure to find a solution
17:23:26 <Samu> if you have a dock at the end of a tight canal line
17:23:44 <Samu> the only way to depart is doing the 180 turn
17:24:28 <Alberth> seems sensible to get lost in such a case
17:25:31 <deep42thought> it *might* be, that I created a new account instead of merging my old one(s) into a new one
17:25:43 <deep42thought> is there a way to recover that?
17:27:04 <Alberth> no doubt there is, but you need someone that knows that part
17:27:04 <soupy> Sami: That one ship is the only one that has the problem though. The rest have almost identical orders, some of them going to fisheries close to it's destination.
17:27:25 <Alberth> deep42thought: you can wait here, or send an email to info@o.o
17:27:39 <Samu> there are some other cases where it says it's lost
17:27:54 <deep42thought> alberth: thanks, I'll try the mail-option :-)
17:27:58 <Samu> it does against a wall, but not head on
17:28:02 <soupy> chillcore: Still can't find it, buddy. Other than disabling the notification completely, or upping the feeder allotment of profits (which it's already at 95%), I can't seem to find any other options.
17:29:16 <Samu> it's more like a "make a 45º degree turn, then go against the wall to make the 180º degree", when it's turns around, it's on track again
17:29:37 <Samu> don't know if i explained clear
17:30:18 <Samu> it's not a perpendicular head-on
17:34:36 <Samu> sometimes i get the idea that ships walk on invisible rails
17:36:15 <chillcore> samu: I just tried and the ship did not get lost ... mabe check your orders
17:36:56 <chillcore> maybe my canal is not long enough
17:37:13 <chillcore> just a dock at the end of a canal
17:38:07 <chillcore> soupy: let me open the setting gui over here so we are talking abou the same thing ;)
17:40:01 <chillcore> soupy: yeah in regards of negative profits it is on or off for all vehicles
17:40:15 <Samu> let me find out the different ways it can happen, brb
17:40:16 <chillcore> as is for the other notifications
17:40:45 <chillcore> hmm but yeah feeders ...
17:41:20 <Samu> aha, I got a ship is lost, brb print screen
17:42:20 <chillcore> you'll have to indeed fiddle a bit with that setting t oget rid of (most) the notifications
17:42:48 <chillcore> in the end it does not make a difference to your income
17:43:23 <chillcore> just that the last vehicle will be making less or run at a loss
17:43:28 <Samu> makes a 45 turn, to go against wall, to make 180 degrees, to get back on track
17:44:13 <soupy> chillcore: Yeah, they do a wonderful job. Got quite a burgeoning booze industry thanks to these 40 feeders picking up fruit. Unfortuantely they don't know their worth. :P
17:44:33 <chillcore> so called loss ... because the previous vehicles received more of the share
17:44:41 <Samu> CRAP, it made two 45 turns
17:44:56 <chillcore> yes they do ... it is just that the final payment is calculated over the whole rout
17:45:15 <Samu> seems easy to trigger, but hard to describe
17:45:24 <chillcore> damn I looked in a light ... I'll not respond for a bit
17:45:50 <chillcore> moving spots everywhere moehahahaha
17:46:03 <chillcore> I do it each time silly me
17:50:08 <Alberth> ships need room to move/rotate
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17:50:49 <Samu> it's not really lost though
17:51:23 <Alberth> it is lost, but finds its way again at a later time
17:51:48 <Alberth> give it more room, and the popup will not pop up
17:52:09 <Samu> it also happens when it needs to service
17:52:40 <chillcore> Alberth: that or disabling the lost warning :P
17:54:32 <Alberth> I prefer fixing the situation :)
17:54:35 <Samu> when the ship has a sudden urge to go to depot because of service interval and is on a straight line canal, it makes a 45 turn against the wall again, to make a 180 degree
17:54:56 <chillcore> ye me too ... that is about the only notification I leave on
17:55:07 <chillcore> unless I want to play with subsidies
17:55:19 <Alberth> no need, I believe you
17:55:32 <Alberth> if you don't give space to the ship to turn, it behaves weird
17:56:09 <Alberth> chillcore: use busy bee :p
17:56:51 <deep42thought> Samu: why don't you place a buoy beside your shipyard and make explicit "service when needed"-orders after a "goto-buoy"-order?
17:57:08 <Samu> with 90 degrees turned off, that would mean I'd need a 3-tile wide canal to prevent the popup
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17:57:17 <Samu> with 90 degrees on, i need 2-tile wide canal
17:57:30 <Samu> or yah, that other suggestion
17:57:53 <chillcore> I should play another decent game one of these days Alberth ...
17:58:36 <chillcore> so much has changed ...
17:58:50 <chillcore> and yet so little hehe ...
17:58:50 <Alberth> indecent game can be fun too :p
17:59:15 <chillcore> indecent? I like the sound of that XD
18:01:26 <chillcore> samu: now you are talking crap again ... I ALWAYS play with 90 degree turns off
18:01:40 <chillcore> always ... and I never have probs
18:02:02 <Alberth> busy bee gives you connections to make, no need to think at all, just make tracks/roads/docks
18:02:07 <Samu> but if you want to prevent that popup
18:02:09 <chillcore> AIs sometimes can not handle it
18:03:31 <Alberth> it's surprisingly fun to play without having to think :)
18:03:39 <chillcore> Alberth is there a time limit to complet goals in busy bee?
18:04:08 <Alberth> you can ignore goals, and you get a new one
18:04:16 <chillcore> perfect ... my kind of time limit
18:04:25 <chillcore> I start in 2050 too
18:04:40 <Alberth> if you do regular deliveries (once every x years) you can take as long as you like
18:04:53 <chillcore> because when I start in 1950 all my vehicles are gone in no time
18:05:08 <Alberth> bb doesn't care about years, industries, vehicles
18:06:05 <Alberth> what vehicle set do you use?
18:06:14 <chillcore> still the spots ... the flash like LSD ... yay
18:08:13 <chillcore> then again ... what am I complaining about ... some peeps see nada. ;)
18:08:35 <Alberth> yeah, must be severely bummer
18:08:46 * chillcore whistles and avoids age topic
18:08:48 <Samu> each canal has 6 invisible "rail" tracks
18:09:16 <Alberth> perhaps avoid the lights instead :)
18:10:04 <chillcore> I have this shade but need to put it on still
18:10:18 <chillcore> it has been collecting dust for quite while now :P
18:10:31 <Alberth> maybe tonight is the night? :)
18:11:32 <chillcore> but yeah going practically blind ... sux bigtime
18:13:18 <chillcore> especially if you know you will since you're a kid still and see it happening to your grandma, then your father, recognize things in your kids behaviour ...
18:13:49 <chillcore> oh well not there yet and life goes on ;)
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18:14:09 <chillcore> that is the only way to deal with it
18:14:39 <chillcore> things have improved thouh over the years ...
18:14:52 <chillcore> they put new lenses in and stuffs
18:15:05 <chillcore> reading aids ... bigger screens etc
18:15:15 <chillcore> also aid at home and such
18:15:22 <chillcore> ont that I need any of that yet
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18:15:42 <Alberth> pity, a 4x2m tv wouldn't be bad :)
18:15:57 <chillcore> anyhoo ... everybody's got something
18:16:12 <chillcore> ye that 84 inch tablet microsoft has for sale now
18:16:32 <chillcore> eh touscreen I mean
18:17:01 <chillcore> could be used as a tablet ...
18:17:30 <chillcore> Imagine taking that thing on a train or bus
18:18:42 <Samu> allow ship reversing at docks?
18:19:09 <Samu> there's train reversing at stations
18:19:52 <Alberth> yeah, 3 tile wide platform tracks sort of fail
18:19:56 <Samu> but this won't fix the sudden urge to service intervals :(
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18:24:49 <Samu> hmm, there might be a way, but it may require track manipulation
18:25:24 <Samu> the idea is avoid dead end tracks
18:25:50 <Samu> it is adjusted based on the surroundings
18:31:49 <chillcore> yay ... i just built the most complex canal station of all times and at both ends the ship bumps into the dock or wall ... no lost vehicle messages with or without 90 degree turns
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18:36:55 <Samu> not sure how feasible this is
18:37:25 <Samu> the track layout builds itself based on the surroundings
18:40:53 <Alberth> much like the path finder ignores some parts of the layout
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18:44:18 <Samu> oh, my bottom part of the track isn't 100% correct, but you get the idea
18:47:29 <Alberth> won't solve your lost messages, I think
18:47:29 <Alberth> ships still cannot reverse
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18:49:23 * chillcore must resist that button :P
18:51:23 <planetmaker> hehe, chillcore ;)
18:52:01 <chillcore> the minimise button is hidden on my top monitor now ... should help some
18:52:52 <chillcore> I heard you hit some magic button combination often too planetmaker xD
18:55:00 <Samu> making a line of ship depots
18:55:29 <Samu> the ship cannot make 45 degree turns in there
18:56:33 <Samu> when i tell it to go to the other dock, it just follows the line and only reverts at the end of line, no ship is lost pops up
18:57:05 <chillcore> samu: do you ever like ... just play?
18:58:12 <chillcore> but yeah that is what I see here too the ship reverses and no lost warning ...
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19:59:44 <andythenorth> more sea industries eh?
20:00:50 <Alberth> firs has plenty, doesn't it ?
20:05:57 * andythenorth considers looking up Iron Sands
20:06:01 <andythenorth> dunno what they are
20:06:05 <andythenorth> sea-dredged ore I guess
20:06:09 <andythenorth> sea coal I know about
20:06:41 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
20:06:49 <chillcore> iron sands? sound like something you find in australia
20:06:54 <chillcore> just guessing though
20:07:19 <Alberth> can't you get diamonds or so from the ocean floor?
20:08:28 <andythenorth> the problem with sea-based industries is that they often enforce transfers
20:08:33 <andythenorth> or mass-terraforming
20:10:12 <chillcore> I was right about the continent though ... what do I win?
20:10:59 <andythenorth> the right to be smug
20:11:06 <chillcore> TBH I was thinking abot red sand
20:11:39 * chillcore smugs and taps self on shoulder
20:12:14 * andythenorth considers whether sea industries are stupid
20:12:20 <andythenorth> it’s annoying having to transfer
20:12:20 <Alberth> It'd be good to keep the sea somewhat empty, imho
20:12:30 * chillcore slaps self with wet fish
20:12:36 <andythenorth> rivers are useless for shipping
20:16:28 <chillcore> how come rivers are useless andy?
20:16:43 <andythenorth> can’t build docks on them
20:16:49 <andythenorth> hard to go up slopes
20:16:54 <andythenorth> locks take too much space
20:17:14 <andythenorth> although I think I fixed the lost ships issue
20:17:20 <andythenorth> which is 1 out of 3 problems solved
20:17:35 <Samu> i was toying with the idea of auto-placing canals under docks if none exists yet
20:18:00 <andythenorth> (turning off 90º turns causes ships to get lost on river systems, for the record)
20:19:09 <Samu> canals should be much cheaper to build :(
20:19:18 <andythenorth> they are with Squid Ate FISH in your game
20:19:22 <andythenorth> locks would be ‘solved’ by making them 2 tiles not 3
20:19:30 <andythenorth> still hard to place, but not stupid hard
20:19:49 <andythenorth> docks would be ‘solved’ by implementing the flat docks part of newgrf spec which is already defined
20:21:10 <chillcore> what else was there
20:21:35 <Samu> well, yeah.. duh, but you don't need water for lock
20:21:50 <chillcore> rivers without water ...
20:22:23 <chillcore> we are talking rivers?
20:22:59 <andythenorth> docks are buildable, with some amount of terraforming
20:23:05 <andythenorth> and building canal tiles
20:23:06 <Samu> nevermind, i'm on a different thing
20:23:22 <chillcore> you need a flat slope yes
20:23:46 <chillcore> maybe that should be changed?
20:24:30 <Samu> i was also toying with the idea of auto-terraforming a missing corner or two for placing locks, but i fail at understanding this part of the code
20:24:34 <andythenorth> dock placement could be much less irritating imho
20:25:05 <andythenorth> I would prefer building on corner slopes
20:25:21 <andythenorth> a few years ago, Frosch(?) enabled building on all slopes for roadstops, made it much more fun
20:25:35 <andythenorth> arbitrary building restrictions don’t add anything to gameplay except yak shaving
20:25:42 <chillcore> ye autoslope ... me takes note of that for calan and dock
20:26:01 <chillcore> not that I will be able too but you never know
20:26:21 <chillcore> that roadstop on slopes was a nice patch too
20:26:34 <chillcore> was just missing graphics
20:27:37 <chillcore> testing 90 degrees turning on rivers ... it works fine on canals
20:30:56 <andythenorth> ships get lost trivially
20:31:07 <andythenorth> on any complex river system with junctions
20:31:37 <andythenorth> they leave docks in the wrong direction (because no 90º turn) then get too far from the next order destination
20:32:08 <chillcore> it seems fine for the moment but the rivers are not that complex in this game
20:32:48 <andythenorth> it’s hard to trigger delibarately
20:32:57 <chillcore> but yeah if you forget to ad a lock it turns back all the way to sea before it turns again
20:32:58 <andythenorth> but I’ve seen it multiple times
20:33:17 <andythenorth> and afaict, it’s trivially solved by enabling 90º turns
20:33:24 <andythenorth> banning 90º turns for ships is bollocks anyway
20:33:32 <andythenorth> might as well ban it for RVs too
20:33:45 <chillcore> I never use 90 degree turns muself
20:34:10 <chillcore> it is silly for trains
20:34:21 <chillcore> maybe we should have it per vehicle group
20:34:32 <andythenorth> I used to ban it in my games for ‘realism'
20:34:35 <chillcore> I heard the devs want moar settings :P
20:34:42 <andythenorth> but eh, it’s totally misguided
20:36:17 <chillcore> it fucks with my mind too much when I see a train do that
20:36:32 <chillcore> about as much as them moving hills in TTD
20:36:39 <chillcore> at least those were funny
20:37:48 <chillcore> we should get those back for tropical
20:38:49 <andythenorth> also eroding coasts
20:39:01 * andythenorth considers making a GS: “Longshore Drift"
20:39:13 <andythenorth> we need more than one GS per game :P
20:39:40 * andythenorth ponders a GS wrapper around modules
20:39:55 <andythenorth> and an app for compiling
20:40:05 <andythenorth> maybe a web app :P
20:40:20 <andythenorth> choose modules, choose parameters, download
20:40:22 <soupy> So, if I transfer alcohol to a central station and neglect it, does that throw off the profits for the feeders who helped collect the fruit to make the alcohol?
20:40:36 <soupy> If that makes any sense.
20:41:02 <chillcore> andy that sounds cool-ish
20:41:18 <chillcore> do GSs need compiling?
20:41:45 <andythenorth> but some end up with a makefile or such to manage releases
20:41:48 <andythenorth> version numbers and crap
20:42:13 * andythenorth any rule like ‘one per game’ is circumventable :P
20:42:18 <andythenorth> even though it’s a good rule
20:43:15 <chillcore> soupy: neglected cargo vanishes afer a long period of time but I am not sure if the same holds for cargo in transfer
20:45:14 <chillcore> andy: hmm ... must investigate GS some day
20:46:24 <chillcore> I written my roadbuilder AI in such a way that I can run multiple instances without them fighting to make the same conections
20:46:37 <chillcore> almost totally random
20:47:03 <chillcore> maybe I shouldad some code ... if the one detects the other they stop building and commence a flamewar
20:47:58 <chillcore> with signs else the players see nothing if they do not have the console open
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20:53:03 <chillcore> soupy: to answer the rest of your qustion ... the payment is done over the wjhole chain ... so indirectly yes the feeders suffer but it will only be the last vehicle that takes the hit, so to speak
20:53:45 <chillcore> in the end it is all your company that makes a profit or not
20:53:47 <Wolf01> wow, I did some trx training after 15 years away from the gym... it killed me
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21:24:59 <andythenorth> eh so what would you call a tram/truck that hauls scrap metal or recyclables
21:30:41 <andythenorth> the cargo is the significant fact, not the body shape
21:32:24 <andythenorth> and in the EN-GB translation?
21:32:55 <andythenorth> FIRS renames ‘junk’ -> ‘scrap’ for EN-GB
21:35:01 <frosch123> well, "Wertstoffbahn" if you want a truely german construct
21:36:05 <andythenorth> you can translate it when I add it :D
21:36:48 <frosch123> does en-gb have a word that is as similar to valuables, but means trash?
21:36:51 <andythenorth> Google translate suggests ‘value web’ ha
21:37:13 <andythenorth> en-gb probably has a phrase that is similar
21:37:16 <andythenorth> if I could think of it
21:41:55 <frosch123> kamnet: a cargo tram for bulky household waste
21:43:25 <frosch123> what language is that? :p
21:45:58 <kamnet> Austrian. The Guterbim is a famous trash collection tram in Vienna
21:47:12 <kamnet> Yeah, I'm bad with remembering those :P
21:48:12 <kamnet> Pretty much any municipality that has used them call them "trash tram" or something close to that.
21:48:45 <andythenorth> roll-on, roll-off container hook lift waggon-and-drag truck
21:49:54 <frosch123> hmm, there is an extra-brittish "skip" in my dictionary
21:52:16 <andythenorth> might not translate easily ;)
21:52:20 <kamnet> Zurich also runs a trash collection tram called Cargotram, not to be confused with the famous VW parts delivery tram in Dresden
21:52:22 <frosch123> why truck? weren't you looking for a tram?
21:52:36 <andythenorth> or tram, truck, tram
21:52:40 <andythenorth> dunno, depends on roster
21:53:27 <frosch123> well, i do not know a word for such vehicle in german, usually you refer to the company/service as "container service"
21:55:24 <kamnet> trash-collection tram, then?
21:55:30 <andythenorth> “Unwanted consumer and industrial waste in bales (piece goods or countable bulk) or shredded (uncountable bulk) tram”
21:56:03 <andythenorth> actually “Unwanted” / “Residual value” /s
21:56:28 <Samu> Garbage truck or dustbin lorry refers to a truck specially designed to collect municipal solid waste and haul the collected waste to a solid waste treatment facility such as a landfill. Other common names for this type of truck include trash truck in the United States, and rubbish truck, bin wagon, dustcart, bin lorry or bin van elsewhere. Technical names include waste collection vehicle and refuse collection vehicle. These trucks are a com
21:57:22 <frosch123> there was some drama on german forums
21:57:44 <frosch123> because someone replaced the translation of "food truck" with "edibles truck"
21:58:37 <andythenorth> edibles is stupid
21:58:41 <andythenorth> I use it in my sets
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22:18:55 <chillcore> stupid change of clocks ...
22:19:32 <chillcore> for me ... for everone else it is 22:18
22:20:14 <chillcore> but yeah peeps get up an hor earlier so
22:20:56 <chillcore> silly typoing too xD
22:22:14 <frosch123> chillcore: the time is correct if wt3 commits at 19:45 :p
22:22:32 <frosch123> you should adjust your life to proper time references
22:22:35 <frosch123> like ottd commit times
22:22:53 <chillcore> I don't use clocks ... at all
22:23:03 <chillcore> except for appointments
22:23:25 <chillcore> work kids ... stuff like that
22:23:46 <frosch123> huh? what else would you use a clock for?
22:24:01 <chillcore> otherwise I eat when hungry, sleep when tired, etc
22:24:19 <frosch123> i thought everyone would do that :p
22:24:38 <chillcore> I mean I do not live by a watch
22:24:52 <frosch123> well, do you know someone who does?
22:25:09 <chillcore> diner is not at 6 ... but when tummy goes grrrrrrr
22:25:47 <chillcore> if food is not on the table at 12.30 sharp they go nuts
22:27:00 <chillcore> thiss one place I used to work for a while ... we had 16 minutes to eat
22:27:24 <chillcore> so I did not bother
22:27:32 <chillcore> takes me 45 at least
22:28:15 <chillcore> not that I eat slow ... but really 16 mins
22:28:54 <chillcore> sometimes I cook at 3 AM
22:29:17 <frosch123> breakfast or dinner :p
22:29:39 <chillcore> whatever I feel like ye
22:30:05 <frosch123> ok, i never eat at night
22:30:11 <chillcore> if I go to bed now I'll be making cofee at 2AM
22:30:42 <frosch123> my stomach has close from 0:00 to 6:00
22:31:05 <frosch123> i guess it's less flexible than the rest of my body :)
22:32:04 <chillcore> I do not start moving furniture during the night ... lucky neighbours
22:33:04 <chillcore> but yeah my body has no clock
22:33:21 <chillcore> long time ago I used to work 14-16 hours a day
22:33:38 <chillcore> sometimes I added 24 to that
22:34:22 <chillcore> guess it is a leftover from that time
22:34:46 <chillcore> not complaining though
22:35:26 <chillcore> but it is hard for peeps to keep up "whadda ya mean breaksie?"
22:35:37 <chillcore> we just started lol
22:36:13 <chillcore> although with getting older I did cam down a bit
22:36:25 <chillcore> except for my sleep pattern
22:36:40 <frosch123> my coworker plays poker every night, usually arrives at 10:30 at work and has lunch at 12:00 :p
22:37:19 <chillcore> sux for relation ships sleeping like that ... I just can't stay in bed without being tired
22:37:31 <chillcore> hehe that's a nice rythm
22:38:00 <chillcore> he leaves at 16:00?
22:38:26 <chillcore> or you have gliding hours?
22:38:47 <chillcore> just curious ... nosy me
22:40:06 <frosch123> you can do your 40 hours/week whenever you like
22:40:15 <frosch123> as long as you are not missing from meetings constantly :p
22:40:30 <chillcore> reminds me of that other place I worked ... we left at 6:00 with the van ... arrived at whatever hour (depending where we were working) and had breakfast for 30 mins before starting
22:40:37 <frosch123> some people come at 5am, some at 11am
22:40:54 <chillcore> I'd be there for like 2 days ...
22:41:49 <chillcore> I'd love a job like that
22:41:52 <frosch123> yeah, the night watch doesn't ever bother to ask some about their access key
22:41:56 <frosch123> they already know them :p
22:46:54 <chillcore> but yeah working 12 hours a day does not bother me much ... making plenty of money and no time to spend it ...
22:47:09 <frosch123> [22:40] <chillcore> I'd be there for like 2 days ... <- actually, i think you have to make at least 4 hours on monday to friday every day
22:47:29 <chillcore> ah ok ... makes sense
22:47:39 <frosch123> or you have to specifically ask for for overtime-compensation
22:48:04 <chillcore> hehe peeps are not too happy to pay that most of the times
22:49:16 <chillcore> Volvo was nice for that ... between 22:00 and 06:00 130%, saterdays 150%, and sundays 200%
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22:49:36 <frosch123> well, let's say, it does not help that the former head of worker council was at the legal limit of 400 (?) hours/year overtime
22:50:48 <chillcore> still not that terribly much ... +-2 a day ...
22:51:43 <frosch123> well, for the true work-a-holics, you have to start wondering whether they compute the hours correctly
22:52:02 <frosch123> or whether they write down less than they actually do, just to avoid the trouble with the legal limits...
22:52:25 <chillcore> make that most likely
22:52:30 <frosch123> that's what i mean with: it get's tricky if the working council president is one of them :p
22:53:08 <chillcore> I had this one place that worked with a badge soo that was all payed ... +4 a day
22:53:20 <chillcore> this other place was 4 hours under the table
22:54:42 <chillcore> but that happens less and less
22:55:09 <chillcore> these days they hire interims ... easier to let go if things slow down
22:56:19 <chillcore> I know this one place where they still search a programmer ... prefferably little to no industry experience
22:57:05 <chillcore> kinda my profile but I don't like the guy for things he does so ...
22:59:09 <chillcore> I'll be doing something I like doing soon enough hopefully
22:59:31 <chillcore> ripping old pcs apart and putting them back toghether with a new HDD in it
22:59:41 <chillcore> sell them for 100 euros
22:59:55 <chillcore> for the less fortunate
23:00:19 <chillcore> that and teaching old ladies how to send e-mails :P
23:00:28 <chillcore> or stuffs like that
23:00:59 <chillcore> this other company that I breached their security don't want ot work with outsiders
23:01:33 <chillcore> I'll tell them to hire me so I am no longer :P
23:03:13 <chillcore> They still want to have a talk with me so I'll see
23:03:22 <chillcore> waiting for an apointment for that
23:04:39 <chillcore> I am just looking forward again to not having a boss above me
23:05:23 <chillcore> that sux, especially if your direct supervisor has no clue
23:08:16 <chillcore> making some coffee ... anyone want some :P
23:08:54 <frosch123> finished mine 2 hours ago
23:11:23 <chillcore> making only half a kettle then ;)
23:11:29 <chillcore> fresh in the morning
23:12:25 <frosch123> i only drink coffee in the evening, as weird as it may sound :)
23:13:16 <chillcore> hehe ... I have no probs having some before going to bed
23:13:26 <chillcore> but I need it in the morning
23:13:44 <chillcore> or rather when waking up
23:15:17 <chillcore> I dont dink softdrinks much ... actually almost never
23:15:30 <chillcore> they make me thirsty
23:16:45 <chillcore> I am halway rewritng MHL ...
23:17:20 <chillcore> just need some part getting rid of the max_height dependency
23:18:11 <chillcore> but the code will tell ... too hard to explain with you confusing me all the time xD
23:19:09 <chillcore> we need it indeed for newgrf stuffs
23:19:16 <chillcore> not for generating maps
23:20:08 <chillcore> and indeed maxheight should not change midgame
23:20:25 <chillcore> but level of top tile still can
23:21:32 <chillcore> what has happened is that everythingis tied to it and that is wrong
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23:21:54 <Mr_Bones_> anyone with commit privs willing to fix this:
23:21:56 <Mr_Bones_> media/openttd.desktop.in: error: value "game;simulation;transport;tycoon;deluxe;economics;multiplayer;money;train;ship;bus;truck;aircraft;cargo" for locale string list key "Keywords" in group "Desktop Entry" does not have a semicolon (';') as trailing character
23:22:03 <Mr_Bones_> just needs a semicolon at the end of the line
23:23:12 <chillcore> hmm most devs sleep now Mr_Bones
23:23:28 <chillcore> can you submit that to FlySpray please?
23:25:35 <Mr_Bones_> doesn't really seem like a big enough deal for me to create an account for
23:26:01 <chillcore> does it crash the game or just wome warnings during compilation or?
23:26:03 <frosch123> i see nothing in the specification saying it should end with a ;
23:27:55 <frosch123> never mind, found it
23:29:54 <Mr_Bones_> it's best just to trust desktop-file-validate ;-)
23:30:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27221 trunk/media/openttd.desktop.in (2015-04-07 23:30:04 +0200 )
23:30:16 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Multi-value keys in the desktop entry shall end with a trailing separator. (Mr_Bones)
23:30:31 <Mr_Bones_> nah, it's just a warning when creating the package. on gentoo the desktop files are checked at package creation time and warnings are displayed.
23:30:55 <Mr_Bones_> I can punt the sed patching in the ebuild for the next release.
23:31:42 <chillcore> now I can delete this file too ... ;)
23:33:28 <Mr_Bones_> now the only patch we're carrying is the CFLAGS one. Any chance y'all would consider just using the existing CFLAGS if they're already set at configure time?
23:34:05 * chillcore should change nick and try that same trick with tgen light patch :P
23:35:08 <frosch123> Mr_Bones_: ./configure --CFLAGS=$CFLAGS ?
23:35:35 <frosch123> anyway, i have no idea about the configure magic
23:35:38 <Mr_Bones_> mmmm, maybe. let me take a look at the configure script.
23:36:39 <Mr_Bones_> heh. yeah, configure claims that CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS are influential but that's kind of a lie.
23:40:00 <Mr_Bones_> well, that's ok, it's a small patch and seems like the configure code doesn't change much between releases so it's a light burden.
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23:53:14 <Samu> i got a question, i never used these "->" signals
23:53:16 <Samu> if (indspec->behaviour == INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
23:53:39 <Samu> is this gonna do what I think it's gonna do?
23:54:23 <Samu> if the industry that is about to be prospected is built on water, then set the prospector to the current company?
23:55:53 <chillcore> it is an arrow ... it points?
23:58:29 <Samu> points to the behaviour?
continue to next day ⏵
