IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-04-05
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00:31:57 <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != _current_company) return ret;
00:39:18 <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company == OWNER_TOWN && _local_company != owner) return ret;
00:42:47 <Samu> I hope local company is the company who issued the prospect command
00:48:56 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
00:49:05 <drac_boy> hi..been quite a while :->
00:49:21 <drac_boy> *baps ngc* you still around I hope? heh
00:51:43 <Samu> question: prospecting on competitor canal with build on competitor canal setting enabled: allow or disallow?
00:52:48 <drac_boy> not sure what to tell you sorry samu
00:53:50 <Samu> say, you're prospecting an oil rig
00:54:03 <Samu> all the water in existance are canals, but these canals are not yours
00:54:11 <Samu> should the oil rig spawn?
00:57:26 <drac_boy> well water and road are technically open access so mm dunno
01:18:01 <drac_boy> hmm I seem to have forgotten where ngc was from..I think around the europe timezone tho
01:22:05 *** frosch is now known as frosch123
01:22:08 <drac_boy> seem like a quiet saturday in here
01:27:03 <Supercheese> Ho, interesting rankings
01:27:57 <frosch123> question is, when will s*mu catch up with andy :p
01:28:28 <frosch123> eddit used to be in first place in the past
01:28:40 <frosch123> but has been dwarfed by andy
01:28:45 <frosch123> and even pm overtook him
01:29:04 <Supercheese> "Poor andythenorth, nobody likes him. He was attacked 13 times.
01:29:06 <Supercheese> For example, like this:
01:29:07 <Supercheese> * TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing "
01:30:59 <drac_boy> <actually likes andy for various reasons especially HEQS (and admittly my own private mod to it too)
01:31:56 <Supercheese> Indeed, andy grfs are superlative
01:31:59 <frosch123> lol, you make it sound as if noone likes andy :p
01:32:13 <Supercheese> everyone likes him, hence the direct object in the /me actions
01:36:46 * drac_boy still needs to finish my two grf projects soon too
01:43:11 <Supercheese> sort of the opposite of the Modern Small airport that was added, here's a Vintage Commuter
01:44:04 <frosch123> it's always sad that most airports only have one runway
01:44:29 <frosch123> the smallest grass airport would have 3 lines or so
01:44:34 <frosch123> for whatever reason
01:45:26 <frosch123> possibly to not stress the same grass all the time
01:46:25 <Supercheese> The grass tiles beneath the buildings also seem slightly different than the other grass on the airports, even on the default Small airports
01:46:41 <Supercheese> I might change the groundsprites of those
01:48:50 <Supercheese> There is so much magick in the OGFX+ spritelayouts
01:58:46 * drac_boy will stick to the small airport 'forever' :->
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02:11:50 <drac_boy> so what're you two doing atm?
02:23:47 <drac_boy> slow night for me here anyhow..sorting out how to print a second edition book (can't decide if want do a digital copy too or not so) ..
02:23:55 <drac_boy> tomorrow hmm just a few misc paperworks
03:33:39 <supermop> TaI game is interesting diversion from modeling
03:52:59 <Pikka> got some fun variations on the TaI mechanics planned for pineapple industries...now I just need the time to create it. :)
03:56:26 <supermop> got distracted from by goal town by building up an industrial city to the east
03:56:34 <supermop> no seems to work so far
03:56:57 <supermop> but i have yet to get my $$ to build my goal industries, so we will see
03:57:16 <supermop> i don't see any of the town halls though
03:57:31 <supermop> so im just guessing what types of towns these are
03:58:12 <supermop> this industrial city is producing tons of passengers and sending them out into the world via cargodist
03:58:25 <supermop> but the little towns they go to produce almost none
03:58:42 <supermop> so all these ukrs expresses taking them there return empty
04:00:31 <supermop> so ive built a huge tram network to give more destinations in the city, but of course those distances are not as long
04:02:42 <supermop> ooooh e-class 6021 outside!
04:03:02 <supermop> now there are more e classes that D2s on the network
04:03:19 <supermop> finally. the combinos are way too loud and bumpy
04:04:08 <supermop> can't wait till they get rid of all the D classes on my street and bother someone else with them
04:14:40 <supermop> the combinos are shit
04:15:04 <supermop> every one of them sounds and feels like it has square wheels
04:15:42 <Pikka> oh, TaI towns, not industries :P
04:17:06 <supermop> does transporting output away from an industry let it use its stockpile faster?
04:17:57 <Pikka> yeah, it should say in the window how fast it's producing
04:18:14 <Pikka> it won't rise above the slowest rate if nothing's being transported away iirc
04:19:28 <supermop> coal makes the steel mill go faster?
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06:24:04 <supermop_> what does the fuel depot do?
06:28:05 <Supercheese> and wood in arctic, IIRC
06:28:31 <Supercheese> it's similar to the gas stations in ECS and FIRS
06:36:27 <supermop_> ok. so no reason to dump fuel there rather than the gas stations in town though?
06:37:02 <Pikka> I don't know if the TaI petrol stations accept it. otherwise, no, not really.
06:38:12 <supermop_> well its farther away so i get more money i guess
06:38:32 <supermop_> i didn't know if tai used to to boost growth or something
06:50:11 <Pikka> what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
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06:57:07 <Supercheese> first thing that came ti mind
07:08:28 <supermop_> damnit did not get to build any electrified lines to buy a 'southern emu' before my trial was up
07:09:25 <supermop_> moa a good name for fictional emu
07:09:40 <supermop_> maybe if IH ever gets EMUs
07:09:56 <supermop_> or if pineapple needs some earlier ones?
07:10:23 <supermop_> or maybe i need to make a EMU set called Moa
07:11:00 <supermop_> Multpleunit Overhead Ac-powered?
07:11:56 <supermop_> I'll leave you and andy to fight over the scraps of naming an EMU 'Ostrich'
07:13:55 <supermop_> tram network has sapped all of the passengers away from my train lines, need to shuttle this pannier over to go work light freight on other side of town
07:18:13 <supermop_> The Moa and Camel could be a good pub name referencing metro-cammel emus too
07:18:24 <supermop_> of to rhino to model a pub!
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08:06:43 <andythenorth> also morning Pikka chops
08:07:42 <andythenorth> is this Pikka dead?
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08:17:38 <Alberth> 8am that early? I get up at around 7am normally
08:27:05 <Pikka> andythenorth, what do I call my gamescript?
08:27:52 <Alberth> what does it do? (or intends to do)
08:28:06 <Pikka> <Pikka> what's a (good?) name for a gamescript where companies compete for points to "win" towns?
08:28:38 <andythenorth> capture the flag
08:32:04 <Pikka> I will call it all of those
08:32:04 <andythenorth> points win prizes
08:32:13 <andythenorth> what’s the point
08:32:31 <andythenorth> grosse point blank
08:34:11 <Pikka> I could just call it fred
08:37:02 <andythenorth> reloaded newgrfs
08:37:08 <andythenorth> when vehicles have changed length
08:39:14 <andythenorth> was a useful feature
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08:50:35 <Pikka> why, what did you do to it?
08:51:27 <andythenorth> I chose a computing platform that changes often
08:51:37 <andythenorth> also I chose 2x UI zoom
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09:16:20 * andythenorth trucks a livestock
09:31:10 * Supercheese lives a stock truck
09:44:00 <Supercheese> but of course I immediately did confuse the two
09:44:24 <Supercheese> started humming the wrong tune...
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10:08:17 <Pikka> moar hog than you can poke a stick at
10:10:25 <andythenorth> watch your swines head
10:17:38 <andythenorth> pikka so is capture the flag playable yet? o_O
10:18:38 <Pikka> I just wasn't doing enough things at the same time, so I decided to revisit writing a GS. :)
10:35:57 <andythenorth> happy as a bunny
10:46:14 <supermop> reminds me to go eat chocolate
10:55:15 <supermop> ok moa pub sign done
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15:32:16 <Samu> have you seen the reddit game?
15:32:29 <Samu> there is a city sized 412k
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15:38:39 <Samu> never seen a game so populated
15:43:22 <Samu> lol, so funny, i entered a company of someone who didn't know how to raise money
15:44:04 <Samu> but was waiting for money
15:44:19 <Alberth> casual players don't read manuals
15:44:42 <Alberth> given the current games that have dummy manuals built-in, it's not so weird
15:58:55 <Samu> they're discussing novaclient, do you know what that is? about easier order making
16:04:01 <Samu> these guys must be cheating
16:10:22 <Samu> how can they have this city so big
16:13:25 <Alberth> there are experts that play openttd for making big cities :)
16:14:07 <Alberth> there are also topics at the forum about it
16:14:28 <Alberth> and perhaps even at the wiki
16:14:47 <frosch123> there is always a bigger fish
16:14:47 <Alberth> I never studied them, as I am not interesting in having a big city
16:15:03 <frosch123> i think i saw a 1.5M city
16:15:16 <frosch123> anyway, if you know how to do it, it's boring :p
16:19:08 <frosch123> there is a 2.5M town in one of the screenshots
16:20:03 <frosch123> basically you have to garden the town
16:20:11 <frosch123> you cannot just let it grow as it comes :p
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16:33:58 <Samu> openttd has got an "obscure interface", someone comments, I wonder what it is
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16:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> eddit used to be in first place in the past <-- i was never first in number of lines. only in number of words. nobody can beat andythemonologue
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18:38:13 <Samu> teleporting cargo is allowed
18:38:18 <Samu> station spreading is allowed
18:38:28 <Samu> this reddit server is horrible
18:39:34 <Samu> they're being teached the wrong way...
18:39:51 <frosch123> yeah, there is only one true way to play the game
18:39:51 <Samu> teaching noobs the flaws of the game
18:40:51 <Samu> i am surprised i'm the only one complaining, out of 17
18:41:10 <frosch123> most imporant is, that you play it correctly, instead of just having fun
18:42:37 <Samu> they are abusing the town spread algorithm to the point they're splitting the map in 4 parts
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18:43:25 <frosch123> that for sure can't be fun
18:45:27 <Samu> there's a town with houses extending from coordinates 1005 x 230 all the way to 134 x 230
18:45:49 <LordAro> Samu: you've clearly never seen an openttdcoop game :p
18:46:02 <LordAro> (progame 5 is something else)
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19:11:01 *** circ-user-qXdNR is now known as Marty
19:11:21 <Marty> Anyone with experience with ECS vectors?
19:14:43 <frosch123> there is an extensive documnetation on tt-wiki.net
19:15:10 <frosch123> but other than that, it does not appear particular popular these days
19:16:01 <frosch123> it's the first big industry set, newer sets learned from it, i guess
19:20:31 <Marty> What are the alternatives to ECS? And can you use one of the vectors alone
19:20:37 <Marty> or do you have to use all at once
19:21:50 <frosch123> town vector is must
19:22:16 <Marty> ah okay, I just see that lots of the vectors depend on each other
19:22:23 <Marty> Do you use any mods your self frosch123 ?
19:23:13 <frosch123> alternatives are ogfx+industries (simple), yeti (medium), firs (medium to complex depending on parameters)
19:24:13 <frosch123> there are also some other variations of the three
19:24:37 <frosch123> like ogfx+manpower industries or whatever it is called
19:25:50 <Marty> Thanks a lot, was just what I wanted to know
19:26:57 <Samu> i'm doing something a bit dangerous in the code
19:28:32 <Marty> Will look into it, I only knew about ECS but Im checking out yeti right now
19:29:19 <frosch123> yes, yeti has zoomed-in graphics
19:30:02 <frosch123> if you are going to use yeti, you will need a trainset that supports them
19:30:16 <frosch123> pineable trains, iron horse, or nuts
19:30:46 <frosch123> most other sets will work as well, but are unlikely to have specific yeti graphics
19:30:53 <Samu> if (ret.Failed()) - don't fail yet, fail if it meets extra criteria, or maybe even pass!
19:38:36 <Marty> Any recommendation for choosing a industry set?
19:40:02 <frosch123> no, they all have different game mechanics
19:40:39 <frosch123> i would recommend to not use one with more than 3 times the industry types than you are used to :)
19:41:24 <frosch123> it can get annoying if you have many similar looking industries, and have a hard time to figure out where to actually transport stuff
19:41:49 <frosch123> if you are not used to using the industry chain view and linking it to the map, you will have a hard time
19:42:21 <frosch123> so, just try, and look at the parameters if the water is too cold :p
19:43:04 <Marty> why do you need the trainset for yeti?
19:44:12 <frosch123> are you using any trainset or vehicleset currently?
19:44:27 <Marty> I just use the basic ttd set
19:44:39 <frosch123> then you won't have any vehicles to transport the new cargos :p
19:44:53 <frosch123> you cannot use the default vehicles with the advanced industry sets
19:45:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27220 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-04-05 19:45:14 +0200 )
19:45:23 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:45:24 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
19:45:42 <frosch123> if you haven't used any vehicleset before, you will likely also encounter cargo refitting
19:46:49 <frosch123> but it's the normal case for any other train- or road vehicle set
19:47:09 <Marty> yeah :) I used to play the original TT game back 20 years ago
19:50:18 <V453000> there are only like 4 custom cargoes in YETI so it isnt apparent at the first glance :P
19:50:39 <Marty> FIRS seem pretty big by comparison
19:50:49 <frosch123> firs has parameters
19:51:01 <frosch123> the default economy is "full firs", which i would not recommend in the slightest :p
19:51:16 <frosch123> via parameters you can pick from several smaller economies
19:51:51 <Marty> The temperate basic seems more like what I should t ry
19:52:05 <Marty> yeti and ecs does also seem pretty neat
19:52:24 <Marty> I like how you can stockpile some resources at the production plants.
19:53:51 <V453000> yeti has a very functional, simple concept
19:53:57 <V453000> but getting it work well requires having a nice network :)
19:54:03 <Samu> 1. have the option to fund primary industries as other industries
19:54:31 <Samu> 2. click to fund an industry, but don't place it
19:54:40 <Samu> 3. now change the setting to prospecting
19:55:06 <Samu> bug: the cursor didn't revert
19:55:36 <Samu> i can place a prospecting industry
20:02:06 <Marty> wow FIRS is really really crazy
20:02:14 <Marty> Impressive but very hard to understand.
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20:13:15 <Samu> who's an expert on detecting all corner cases here? chillcore?
20:13:57 <Samu> between line 21 and 34 is the important part
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20:47:41 <Alberth> how is clearing a water tile related to industry funding?
20:49:39 <Samu> if _current_company is OWNER_NONE or OWNER_TOWN then it's an industry that's being placed
20:50:34 <Samu> if _current_company is one of the other 15, then it's not an industry that's being placed, it's a real company
20:50:53 <Samu> OWNER_TOWN is for prospecting
20:51:12 <Samu> OWNER_NONE is for funding or random creation as far as I could understand
20:51:16 <frosch123> yup, that is the intentional behaviour
20:51:58 <frosch123> prospected industries which choose their location randomly should not be constructed on player property
20:52:05 <frosch123> like bought land or canals or whatever
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20:52:22 <frosch123> if the player pcks the location themself, they are free to choose their property
20:52:35 <Samu> there's my doubt about _local_company
20:52:54 <Samu> _local_company is the company who actually issued the order, if I got this right
20:53:02 <frosch123> no, you got that wrong
20:53:27 <frosch123> local_company never changes
20:53:34 <frosch123> it's the company of the client ottd is running on
20:53:58 <frosch123> it has different values for every players' computer, if they have different companies
20:54:17 <frosch123> using it in a command, other than for decidcing whether to popup news messages or something, will desync
20:56:35 <Samu> then how can i retrieve the company who issued the prospect command :(
20:57:01 <Samu> i was using _local_company :(
20:57:08 <frosch123> it's _current_company at the beginning of the command
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20:57:26 <Samu> _current_company is OWNER_TOWN for prospecting
20:57:29 <frosch123> but it is switched in the middle to some neutral company, due to the reasons above
20:57:46 <frosch123> if you want to keep it, you have to pass it to the functions separately
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21:06:41 <chillcore> wrong buuuuuuuutton XD
21:07:00 <Samu> I have to think: an industry, other than oil rig, has to be placed by OWNER_TOWN, and not by the prospecting company, due to the reason it could spawn on company-owned land
21:07:01 <frosch123> picking up pm's habbits?
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21:07:18 <frosch123> pm presses ctrl+w all the time :p
21:07:25 <chillcore> bought land signs are on the wrong tile ...
21:07:44 <frosch123> it's a ogfx bug in the rc
21:08:01 <frosch123> it's only wrong in zoom-in
21:08:28 <frosch123> because the zoom-in gui sprite was assigned to the viewport sprite
21:09:21 <Samu> an oil rig doen't have the issue of being placed on company-purchased land though
21:09:27 <Samu> you can't purchase water
21:09:36 <Samu> and oil rigs needs water
21:09:50 <frosch123> canals are purchased water
21:10:14 <frosch123> btw. oil is not made of water :p
21:10:32 <Samu> yes, I was conditionalizing if ret.Failed() to pass
21:10:50 <frosch123> oil has carbon instead of oxygen
21:11:56 <Samu> it fails, but I force it to pass whenever it ends on self canal, not on competitor's canals
21:12:04 <Samu> at least, that was the idea
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21:25:18 <Samu> question, do you know of any hybrid industries? part water, part land?
21:25:36 <Samu> have you seen such an industry in a newgrf or so?
21:26:11 <frosch123> every harbor industry
21:32:57 <Samu> INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER
21:36:28 <Samu> how do i get an industry behaviour of an industry that does not yet exist :(
21:37:07 <Samu> the layout is not even decided yet :(
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22:35:54 <Samu> if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) {
22:36:44 <Samu> i dont know how to use the backup
22:37:17 <Samu> or rather, skip the backup
22:37:32 <Samu> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_TOWN, FILE_LINE);
22:46:20 <Samu> Owner prospector = OWNER_TOWN;
22:46:31 <Samu> if (indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
22:46:41 <Samu> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, prospector, FILE_LINE);
22:53:04 <Samu> there! I fooled the backup
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23:10:37 <Samu> this was not the behaviour I was looking for
23:11:35 <Samu> if (_settings_game.construction.build_on_competitor_canal && _current_company != owner) return ret;
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