IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-02-26
#openttd / 2015 / 02 
            

00:00:11  <samu> have to figure out what's happening between step 1 and 2



00:00:26  <glx> when ownership is removed maintenance cost for ownersip is gone too



00:01:22  <samu> owner founder - OWNER_NONE in case of industries



00:01:50  <samu> which line is exactly doing that



00:01:56  <samu> setting a new owner



00:02:35  <glx> the tile is cleared when the industry is created



00:02:56  <glx> it's like using dynamite



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00:11:27  <samu> 	OwnerByte owner;                    ///< owner of the industry.  Which SHOULD always be (imho) OWNER_NONE



00:12:29  <samu> okay, before setting OWNER_NONE, i want to extract whatever owner it is there



00:12:40  <samu> copy



00:12:52  <samu> to... m6 somehow



00:13:21  <samu> hmm



00:13:23  <samu> let me read



00:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> have i said today yet that i think your whole idea seems ill-conceived?



00:18:42  <samu> no



00:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you want to project a logic on it that neither is there, nor would have any reason to be there



00:19:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you are toying with a detail that has no practical application whatsoever



00:20:12  <samu> my vision :(



00:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> when the industry is built, you don't own the area anymore. when the industry closes, you don't magically get it back



00:20:48  <samu> worst case is the industry



00:20:57  <samu> i have to find all possible cases



00:21:18  <samu> i started with ship depot



00:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> after industry is disbanded, owner will be none. just like when a competitor's company bankrupts



00:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> no problem



00:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no bits



00:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause> case closed.



00:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> deal with more important matters.



00:22:24  <samu> ship depot?



00:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ship depot can only be placet on own canals. because they can block routes. case closed.



00:23:14  <samu> my vision :(



00:23:43  <samu> i vision much cheaper canal costs



00:23:47  <samu> envision



00:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with ship depots being built on competitors' canals?



00:24:34  <samu> i think of canals like they're roads, i need this mindset



00:24:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily build an own canal next to it and place your ship depot there



00:25:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot build road depots on existing roads, you have to build them next to the road and connect it



00:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause> case closed.



00:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> man this is easy.



00:25:50  <chillcore> :P



00:26:06  <samu> whoever worked on drive-through road stops disagrees with you, and so do I, lel



00:26:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but drive through stops cannot be turned 90° to block the road



00:27:02  <ST2> btw, watching this as a simple spectator, I think samu is losing time with so specific things that, if implemented, the game loses the fun of it, as a game



00:27:29  <ST2> but it's me :)



00:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: seriously, you've been at tiny little details for weeks now, that have absolutely no effect on the grand scale, and haven't made a single step forward. at some point you just have to let go. vision or not.



00:30:02  <samu> If only I was better at coding :(



00:30:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it has nothing to do with coding.



00:30:41  <samu> i see what you mean, potential abuse with ship depots



00:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: anyway, you can easily add a switch to allow competitor's docks and ship depots on canals, like there exists a switch for drive through stops. doesn't mean you have to mess with oil rigs in any way whatsoever



00:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you can look up the logs when you started talking about industries, and i immediately said you won't find enough bits there, don't bother



00:39:59  <samu> must think



00:42:24  <samu> so demotivational



00:42:28  <ST2> samu: another suggestion I have is: place the patches you put in bug reports in threads on the "OpenTTD Development" forum



00:42:52  <ST2> that way you'll get more ppl to test them and give opinions



00:43:25  <ST2> because many ppl watch forums but not that many watch flyspray



00:43:32  <ST2> just a suggestion :)



00:46:01  <ST2> and even better, in ttd forums you can provide binaries and players can test what your suggestions do the gameplay



00:46:16  <ST2> imo, that's the way to go



00:46:33  <ST2> if you want get supporters on your "visions" :)



00:48:09  <chillcore> don't be demotivated samu ... all of us reach some dead ends sometimes, you learned a lot so all is not wasted. ;)



00:48:34  <ST2> yup



00:49:02  <ST2> and OpenTTD is full of "history" about patches to be included in trunk, at least



00:49:21  <ST2> and ppl didn't gived up (mostly, ofc :P)



00:50:36  <ST2> oh well, I give up... gonna play a bit



00:50:37  <ST2> xD



00:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> samu: it's not meant demotivational. but when you notice you don't move forward, you need to learn to take a few steps back and rethink your decisions. get a little perspective



00:50:50  <samu> creating account



00:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and when you're not moving forward while not noticeing it at the same time, you're in real trouble



00:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> in software development these situations happen fairly often, that you fiddle with some detail that you could completely avoid if you go by another approach



00:55:05  <samu> ok i have a new name



00:55:07  <chillcore> yep look at me ... I hate pointers, never took the time to understand them properly, and I still am not able to make a modifiable array ... I tried again for two days last week and then said balls to it untill a later time ... at least my patch is advancing again.



00:55:35  <chillcore> I'll have to master that some day but I do not need either of them to make my code work ;)



00:55:42  <samu> xarick



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00:56:26  *** samu is now known as xarick



00:56:42  <xarick> i'm registered to the forums now



00:56:59  <chillcore> cool



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00:59:29  <ST2> btw, not related but I made a patch to allow "uint CUSTOM_SEA_LEVEL_MIN_PERCENTAGE = 0;"



00:59:31  <ST2> maybe seems dumb but all tests (even in populated servers) dnt create issues with mapgen



00:59:52  <ST2> nothing against sea... only to give that option on settings xD



01:00:47  <chillcore> oilrigs ... ST2 ;)



01:01:01  <xarick> oil rigs are mean



01:01:06  <ST2> hehe



01:01:10  <chillcore> ye



01:01:15  <ST2> the idea started there, preciselly xD



01:01:15  <xarick> but i like them at the same time



01:01:43  <ST2> specially when server has multi industries per town



01:01:45  <ST2> :S



01:02:03  <ST2> late years they spam like devils xD



01:02:28  <xarick> i fixed their layout, but devs didn't implement the fix in the real game code



01:02:37  <xarick> t.t



01:02:50  <ST2> note: never siggested that in Flyspray because wanted to tested it 1st in online servers



01:02:56  <ST2> suggested*



01:03:25  <xarick> told me to fix via NewGRF



01:03:39  <xarick> I hate GRF's they suck



01:03:44  <xarick> j/k



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01:04:18  <ST2> but all runs ok... only there's the option to set quantity_sea_lakes = 4 and custom_sea_level = 0



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01:04:52  <xarick> ok let me start my first topic



01:05:13  <xarick> introducing new oil rig layout as a NewGRF though :(



01:07:02  <chillcore> I doubt "no sea" would be accepted for trunk ST2 ... for obvious reasons



01:07:38  <ST2> well, I'm testing it 1st, for obvious reasons too :D



01:07:55  <ST2> but was only to give that option to mapgen



01:08:06  <ST2> default it's still 2



01:08:08  <ST2> xD



01:08:12  <chillcore> does not hurt to suggest stuffs ofcourse xD



01:08:35  <xarick> how do i link to my newgrf?



01:08:52  <xarick> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/



01:08:56  <xarick> it's in that big list



01:09:01  <chillcore> I once asked for the option to filter ex-advanced setting on values not changed from default ... frosch sais no *sniff*



01:09:16  <ST2> and I bet most of ttd players already played on servers with the "no sea" patch applied" :D



01:09:20  <xarick> improved oil rig layout is the name, but ... how to link to that



01:09:51  <chillcore> yeah the code will run ST2 but are oilrigs spawned at all?



01:10:09  <xarick> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/newgrf/Improved_Oil_Rig_Layout-3.tar.gz



01:10:09  <chillcore> read: breaks chain?



01:10:15  <xarick> ok, do ppl know what's a tar.gz?



01:10:27  <chillcore> just a zip xarick



01:10:42  <chillcore> get 7zip



01:10:55  <ST2> @ chillcore: start a game above 2000 with multi industries per town and big lakes



01:11:35  <ST2> I use IZarc and does the job too... but 7zip seems easier to use :)



01:12:29  <chillcore> lakes ... how do you make em big? also lakes at level 0 are sea ... IIRC



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01:13:02  <gabriel_> helpp



01:13:03  <gabriel_> !



01:13:08  <xarick> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72670



01:13:12  <xarick> there it is



01:13:17  <ST2> better, to see how it behaves, check this server: http://www.openttd.org/en/server/83148



01:13:23  <chillcore> don't ask to ask gabriel ... shoot



01:14:01  <ST2> note about oil rigs spawn xD



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01:14:15  <xarick> terrible english



01:14:18  <xarick> i see



01:15:02  <xarick> is it better now?



01:15:42  <xarick> the layout also introduces a bug



01:15:57  <xarick> because NewGRFs suck j/k



01:16:26  <xarick> now they spawn everywhere, not just at map borders



01:17:27  <chillcore> how do I see the nr of oilrigs ST2? not feeling like messing with ports and such. I try to keep this laptop locked down a smuch as possible. ;)



01:17:48  <ST2> sec, making a screenshot ^^



01:18:17  <chillcore> if you tell me they spawn I do believe you ;)



01:18:42  <ST2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7om3a2knnkk9yw/Captura%20de%20tela%202015-02-26%2001.18.08.png?dl=0



01:18:50  <ST2> tell me if can see it ^^



01:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> by my experience, these sites just come up blank



01:20:01  <chillcore> i can see the screenshot ST2 ... that is sea you are showing me



01:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, it doesn't :p



01:20:22  <ST2> that's an unpatched server



01:20:38  <chillcore> and what eddi said, a friend on steam simply stopped sending me links because I was like; blocked, blocked, blocked



01:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but the image is scaled and you can't see anything



01:20:56  <ST2> well, I use dropbox



01:21:10  <ST2> worked always fine



01:21:12  <chillcore> there is the oilrigs shadows ... eddi



01:21:22  <ST2> but I always ask if ppl can see it xD



01:22:04  <xarick> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72670&p=1143368#p1143368



01:22:07  <chillcore> I have dropbox blocked on my iPad ... not yet on this pc



01:22:24  <xarick> this newgrf would kind of fix that oilrig blocking ships



01:22:27  <xarick> lels



01:22:43  <xarick> let me do the patch version



01:22:48  <xarick> brb



01:23:36  <ST2> ofc, if I had an iPad I would block Apple sources, but that's me :P



01:23:49  <ST2> now, out of jokes



01:24:08  <chillcore> hehe ... I block mostly them sites that have their spyware logo everywhere



01:24:17  <ST2> in late maps, even a single lake gets lots of oil rigs



01:24:36  <chillcore> and I indeed block apple stuffs too



01:24:43  <chillcore> no auto updating ever



01:24:47  <ST2> if lulti industry per town enabled



01:24:53  <ST2> multi*



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01:26:47  <xarick> strange error i got just now



01:27:14  <xarick> The revision of this client doesn't match the server's revision



01:27:33  <ST2> normal ^^



01:27:50  <ST2> changed the source code?



01:27:53  <xarick> then why did it let me join



01:28:33  <ST2> "The revision of this client doesn't match the server's revision" and "did it let me join" are incompatible, from what I know of :S



01:28:58  <xarick> i saw it listed, I joined it



01:29:08  <xarick> then i create new company and error pops



01:29:14  <xarick> doesn't even get me into the game



01:29:16  <chillcore> samu what is the thing you posted? a patch or a newgrf?



01:29:22  <xarick> a newgrf



01:29:56  <chillcore> then it belongs in graphics development



01:30:02  <ST2> yup



01:30:19  <xarick> hum... what if I post both versions



01:30:27  <chillcore> also please upload to forums, personal storage tend to dissapear



01:30:35  <chillcore> tends*



01:30:40  <xarick> that's banana storage



01:30:48  <xarick> and some pastebin



01:30:53  <chillcore> and?



01:31:07  <xarick> i set it to forever



01:31:14  <chillcore> megaupload anyone? lots and lots of stuffs lost there



01:31:25  <chillcore> people had no chance to get their stuffs out in time



01:32:17  <xarick> it's on your end



01:32:32  <chillcore> what is on my end? you misunderstand me



01:32:43  <xarick> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puowthf5w



01:32:49  <xarick> http://binaries.openttd.org/bananas/newgrf/Improved_Oil_Rig_Layout-3.tar.gz



01:32:57  <chillcore> stuff uploaded to the forum will be there forever



01:32:58  <ST2> samu: upload stuff to forum: best way



01:32:59  <xarick> openttd.org and openttdcoop.org



01:33:10  <chillcore> ah bananas ok ...



01:33:29  <chillcore> still nice to not link directly to it



01:34:18  <xarick> how would I upload source, copy paste into forum?



01:34:43  <ST2> source = tar.gz file



01:34:51  <ST2> paste = txt file?



01:34:58  <chillcore> zipped attachment? next to your newgrf?



01:35:14  <ST2> many possibilities then ^^



01:36:14  <chillcore> that way peeps will be more inclined to test too ... usually when I have to follow a link I go ... yeah later and forget ...



01:36:56  <chillcore> ^^^ not that I mean to but yeah



01:36:58  <xarick> i dont have the .nml files anymore



01:37:20  <xarick> i created the .grf file, then threw everything else away



01:37:48  <chillcore> hmm ... so no bugfixes if peeps find some



01:38:08  <chillcore> which is fine, if that's fine for you ;)



01:38:09  <xarick> the bug is in the game



01:38:45  <chillcore> the part about blocking other industries you mean, maybe yes



01:39:11  <chillcore> not tested by me so I can not say



01:39:13  <xarick> that side effect bug isn't supposed to happen with that code



01:39:19  <ST2> well, oil rigs works as stations, right



01:39:26  <ST2> so, have catchement area



01:39:42  <ST2> so will get closer oil rigs cargo



01:39:47  <ST2> solved xD



01:40:01  <chillcore> it is about being able to dock ST2?



01:40:12  <ST2> preciselly



01:40:39  <xarick> i don't know what's the catchment area



01:40:46  <ST2> dock in a oil rig is any other oil rig in 4 tiles distance, cargo is catched too



01:40:47  <chillcore> hmm checking ... to see if I can pace them that close toghether



01:40:51  <xarick> that layout is about placement check



01:40:56  <ST2> same as train stations



01:41:00  <glx> <xarick> i created the .grf file, then threw everything else away <-- always keep source



01:43:02  <xarick> let me see if i still have it



01:43:05  <xarick> i bet  i dont



01:43:16  <xarick> but i downloaded soooo much crap this last month



01:44:29  <xarick> i have not



01:44:31  <xarick> :)



01:44:45  <xarick> i've overwrite the file with my follow up



01:44:53  <xarick> Some Vehicles Never Expire



01:46:21  <xarick> another NewGRF which needed a workaround to maintain vehicle list sorting the same



01:46:30  <xarick> NewGRF always break stuff



01:47:16  <ST2> an example: loading only in 1 oil rig: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cevyp1y7iy8zplw/Captura%20de%20tela%202015-02-26%2001.45.31.png?dl=0



01:47:30  <ST2> because this is the catchement area: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkeqp1veiqm8f5d/Captura%20de%20tela%202015-02-26%2001.46.55.png?dl=0



01:48:20  <ST2> 1 oil rig can be used to load oil from many others



01:48:34  <ST2> it's a known thing in OpenTTD I guess ^^



01:50:04  <chillcore> hmm I don't think it works like that



01:50:11  <ST2> it works



01:50:13  <xarick> which kind of catchment area is that?



01:50:16  <ST2> just test it ^^



01:50:59  <chillcore> the station catchment area is to catch people and mail from buildings



01:51:04  <xarick> ah, the area to where it can put cargo



01:51:11  <ST2> and if Wood or a Farm in that catchement area... can load it too from oil rig station xD



01:51:34  <chillcore> perhaps ye .... not tested



01:51:40  <ST2> chillcore, try it



01:51:46  <chillcore> I believe you



01:51:54  <xarick> one is for the station, the other is for the industry



01:52:06  <xarick> what is the catchment area for the industry itself



01:52:17  <chillcore> I'm just not sure if it catches oil from other rigs, although it kinda makes sense



01:52:30  <xarick> you know, max range at which oil can be loaded from



01:52:37  <xarick> deposited



01:52:56  <ST2> since oil rigs work as stations with catchement area, ofc it makes sense



01:53:05  <ST2> but not many player know it ^^



01:53:30  <xarick> it's a bug



01:53:45  <ST2> oh damn



01:53:50  <ST2> what have I done :S



01:53:51  <xarick> area is 5x5 for station, what about industry catchment area?



01:53:57  <glx> I use train to pick oil from oilrig



01:54:10  <chillcore> hmm I would expect it to go to the oil rig itself but there is this station rating thinghy so yeah ST2



01:54:18  <ST2> glx, some online servers forbid that



01:54:27  <chillcore> glx ... thx for comfirming



01:54:40  <xarick> damn it, no one understands my question, i suck at english



01:55:10  <chillcore> your english is fine samu you just tend to ask 8 questions in one sometimes



01:55:19  <chillcore> :P



01:57:33  <ST2> chillcore: I use oil rigs coverage to get other rigs many times... avoids me spend cash in more ships



01:57:55  <chillcore> you cheaty cheater you :P



01:58:02  <ST2> and competing with myself there xS



01:58:21  <ST2> well, game, right?



01:58:27  <chillcore> yep



01:58:37  <chillcore> rules are meant to be bent



01:58:44  <ST2> if oil rigs catch area around... use it xD



01:59:27  <chillcore> I never thought about it ...



01:59:31  <ST2> damn, I know this since 2007 or something



01:59:46  <ST2> and many players use it ingame



02:00:04  <ST2> it's ok for me, because it's smart ^^



02:00:19  <ST2> and dnt breaks any rules of our servers



02:01:32  <chillcore> true ... then again sometimes I wished I knew less about the mechanics, sine it breaks some of the magic; for me



02:01:52  <ST2> sometimes I wish too :S



02:02:13  <ST2> but better be prepared... even OpenTTD players are creative as hell



02:02:18  <chillcore> still having fun though, but gve me 5 busses and no way am I going bankrupt ever



02:02:32  <ST2> I learned alot with the called "noob" players



02:02:45  <chillcore> and 5 bus stops too



02:02:49  <ST2> because they try the unthinkable sometimes xD



02:03:11  <chillcore> ye that is the fun part of doing patches ... people doing the unexpected



02:03:21  <ST2> 5 buses/5stops... depends on wich server



02:03:27  <ST2> as obviously xD



02:03:30  <chillcore> any server



02:03:42  <chillcore> town goes BOOOOOOOOOOM



02:03:57  <ST2> no it goes not



02:04:11  <chillcore> I stop towns from growing in most of my games



02:04:21  <ST2> most of the CB servers prevent that



02:04:25  <chillcore> hmm maybe now with GSs ...



02:04:51  <ST2> but yeah, a game without GS's... totally agree with you :)



02:04:58  <chillcore> I do SP all the time so



02:05:36  <chillcore> I don't see how  server could stop me having 5 bustops in a town aand servicing them properly ...



02:05:52  <ST2> if 1st demand is coal



02:05:55  <ST2> for example



02:05:57  <chillcore> with or without taking cargo ...



02:06:07  <chillcore> ok



02:06:11  <ST2> town will not grow



02:06:13  <ST2> :P



02:06:51  <ST2> chillcore, check BTPro server #27



02:06:51  <chillcore> still .. all you need is 5 well serviced stations



02:07:11  <ST2> it's using Aphid's CB GS



02:07:55  <ST2> a bit changed ofc to match server software (commands and stuff)



02:08:35  <ST2> or, if you have 1.5.0-beta2 installed



02:08:45  <ST2> check server #99



02:09:14  <ST2> BTPro servers #XX and #99 are testing ones



02:09:17  *** Myhorta has quit IRC



02:09:50  <ST2> #99 is using BusyBee ^^



02:10:06  <ST2> integrated with server software



02:10:42  <chillcore> I do not have the correct ports open ST2 ... sorry don't feel like opening up things



02:10:58  <chillcore> maybe later with my win8 installation that has nnothing but steam



02:11:50  <ST2> 7703 and 9981



02:12:14  <chillcore> Yeah I know ...



02:12:45  <ST2> you're on a Mac?



02:12:56  <ST2> or you're a Linux master



02:13:01  <chillcore> at the moment on linux mint debian



02:13:12  <ST2> Mint <3



02:13:28  <ST2> Mint is debian based, I know



02:13:34  <chillcore> before mint ubuntu with MATE



02:13:55  <ST2> I use it to test almost all my Linux stuff ^^



02:13:57  <chillcore> Mint has two versions



02:14:24  <chillcore> and before that ubuntu untill they did their unity thingy



02:14:40  <chillcore> next will be plain debian I think



02:14:52  <ST2> Mint 2 versions?!



02:15:08  <chillcore> yeah ubuntu based and debian based



02:15:25  <ST2> ubuntu isn't debian based too?!



02:15:39  <chillcore> sure but ...



02:16:35  <ST2> some can confuse Ubuntu with Kubuntu or XUbuntu



02:16:51  <chillcore> ye



02:17:02  <ST2> and many others window managers



02:17:20  <chillcore> I tried opening the mint download page ... htp is blocked so ...



02:17:26  <chillcore> http*



02:17:42  <ST2> holy O.O



02:17:48  <xarick> i found the layout



02:17:49  <xarick> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjeffivhq



02:17:55  <ST2> that's a trully secure computer xD



02:17:56  <xarick> it isn't gone after all



02:17:59  <chillcore> https only ST2



02:18:07  <chillcore> and leechblock



02:18:10  <chillcore> and lmore



02:18:59  <chillcore> I am sure there is still a way in but I will not make it easy :P



02:19:12  <ST2> yeah :S



02:19:24  <chillcore> on win8 com+ is disabled even, haha



02:19:34  <ST2> well, my Linux experience is on VM's



02:19:54  <ST2> but long done... to try things well



02:20:17  <ST2> not the same, but I'm not totally on the left, it seems :D



02:21:06  <chillcore> cool xarick



02:21:06  <ST2> win8?! you using that?



02:21:20  <chillcore> 8.1 and quite happy with it TBH



02:21:31  <chillcore> I do have a start menu



02:21:37  <ST2> hehe xD



02:22:15  <chillcore> but the thing with windows is them blocking ccess to your data when the thing locks up so I stopped using it for anything but games



02:22:25  <ST2> well, W9 seems promising to me... only tried it once but in a VM



02:22:36  <chillcore> you mean 10 :P



02:22:37  <ST2> not fully experiences the machine power



02:22:47  <ST2> right... 10



02:22:56  <chillcore> I did not ... not likeing the registering everything you do and SAY by default



02:23:01  <ST2> damn M$ cointing machine :S



02:23:12  <ST2> counting*



02:23:19  <chillcore> hehe



02:23:41  <ST2> running in a VM you control it better



02:23:48  <chillcore> still best win os was 98se



02:23:51  <chillcore> for me



02:23:55  <ST2> always good to test RC's and stuff ^^



02:24:13  <chillcore> ye ... I'll be on 8.1 for a few years more



02:24:22  <ST2> best windows for me: Windows server 4.0



02:24:26  <chillcore> I took XP ofline last year



02:24:32  <chillcore> never even tried vista



02:24:33  <ST2> never saw a stable thing as that



02:24:39  <chillcore> true



02:25:36  <ST2> at my work, all Vista licenses are now qith XP



02:25:56  <ST2> and when they "kaput", maybe 7



02:26:00  <chillcore> I am slow to upgrade ... I like it like that



02:26:18  <ST2> 10 haven't give proofs yet ^^



02:26:30  <chillcore> 7 will not be suported for a long time I think



02:26:44  <chillcore> they are moving towards 1 OS for all devices



02:27:01  <ST2> but it's stable, and user friendly - for long users, I mean ^^



02:27:17  <raincomplex> oh my god it's openttd in real life http://i.imgur.com/sDXnQjd.jpg



02:27:31  <chillcore> ye I guess, this laptop had it when I bought it but then I upgraded



02:27:59  <ST2> raincomplex, dnt put samu again coordinating your buses... ok?



02:28:01  <ST2> xD



02:28:16  <raincomplex> ;P



02:28:32  <xarick> ok i created patch version



02:29:22  <chillcore> samu ... please pull patch and attach to forums



02:29:41  <chillcore> all this copy pasting to test something ...



02:30:29  <chillcore> if you want lots of feedback you need to make it easy for peeps



02:30:49  <ST2> ... to apply and test



02:31:15  <ST2> ofc, binaries with it... will make it easier ^^



02:31:27  <ST2> to test that specific stuff



02:32:16  <ST2> the patch is good to ppl that want to make tests merging other things, etc etc



02:32:39  <chillcore> there is a binary but not attached to post ... need to go somewhere else and ... sniff



02:33:42  <xarick> how do i put an attachment?



02:34:10  <xarick> link to the attachment in the text area?



02:34:32  <xarick> put it inline or so



02:34:36  <chillcore> under your post ... select file and upload?



02:34:47  <chillcore> no inline not needed



02:34:55  <xarick> meh, not quite the same thing, but ok



02:35:08  <chillcore> how do you mean not the same?



02:35:32  <chillcore> bananas content is supposed to be downloaded in game



02:35:44  <chillcore> not directly from the servers



02:36:10  <xarick> nevermind, i found it



02:36:14  <chillcore> cool



02:37:27  <xarick> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72670&p=1143368#p1143368



02:37:31  <xarick> how's it like now?



02:37:44  <chillcore> much much better



02:37:48  <ST2> chillcore: some stuff had to say it in PM - you'll know why ^^



02:37:50  <chillcore> 1 click and I can read



02:38:19  <chillcore> ok I'll check my inbox ;)



02:38:37  <ST2> IRC pm ^^



02:38:48  <chillcore> haha ok



02:38:57  <chillcore> did not see it ;)



02:39:08  <ST2> maybe you blocked it... understandable xD



02:42:02  <chillcore> lol



02:42:28  <chillcore> no just not used (yet) to having text apear there ;)



02:47:03  <xarick> mister perfectionist: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72670&p=1143368#p1143368



02:47:09  <xarick> i hope i won't have to edit it any more



02:48:42  <xarick> xx means water



02:48:50  <xarick> forces those tiles to be water



02:49:07  <xarick> no more ship blocking



02:51:34  <xarick> ensures those tiles to be water



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03:31:22  <chillcore> hmm ok xarick ... I have not yet tested if ships can or can not reach the oilrigs when close toghether



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04:06:26  <chillcore> good night all.



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10:42:38  <supermop> yo



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10:56:52  <supermop> when articulated vehicles turn, does each segment rotate about its center, or some arbitrarily defined point?



10:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause> center



10:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause> except in older versions of openttd, where the rotation point was the center of a length 8 vehicle, even if it was shortened



10:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> note that the anchor point of the sprite is not its center



10:58:42  <supermop> i have a tram with a rigid pivot segment in the middle rather than bellows and i wanted to make that its own short articulated segment



10:58:46  <supermop> bt



10:58:47  <supermop> but



10:59:16  <supermop> the front and rear car will swing wide away from it when turning  so it seems to be a lost cause



10:59:51  <Eddi|zuHause> turning is a bit weird, with the jumping and length scale changes



11:00:19  <supermop> ugh yeah



11:01:04  <supermop> at least trams turn quickly so you don't have to spend much time looking at it



11:02:08  <supermop> didn't you make some complex turning code?



11:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yes



11:03:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but that was optimized for the old turning behaviour, and i never had the chance (or mood) for updating. so it might not be optimal



11:12:09  <supermop> i cant figure out how to handle this so i think i'll just put the whole joint onto both front and rear cars and let them overlap and look bad for now



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11:32:45  <Xarick> so i introduced a bug



11:33:56  <__ln___> to whom?



11:34:20  <Xarick> to myself



11:34:33  <Xarick> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6235



11:37:03  <Xarick> does the game knows which version of openttd savegames were saved?



11:41:47  <planetmaker> Xarick, OpenTTD has savegame versions which are part of the savegame



11:42:42  <planetmaker> so it knows how to handle the savegames from different versions. However, if you modify OpenTTD source, introduce  new or especially change old settings or alike, then you have to adjust the savegame load code accordingly



11:43:43  <planetmaker> Xarick, while OpenTTD itself does not care which exact version of *OpenTTD* was used for a savegame, it is still recorded. Open the ingame console and type 'gamelog' to see the history of your savegame



11:44:21  <planetmaker> and Xarick, are you samu? :)



11:44:33  <Xarick> yes, i registered to the forum



11:44:51  <Xarick> registered as Xarick



11:44:51  <planetmaker> ehm... the account samu is still there



11:45:05  <Xarick> i was told it wasn't



11:45:18  <planetmaker> ?



11:45:34  <Xarick> chillcore told me i can't get my old account



11:45:37  <Xarick> to create a new



11:45:54  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=18242



11:46:01  <planetmaker> ehm, how would chillcore know?



11:46:34  <Xarick> i couldn't recover it, I've also tried



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11:46:53  <chillcore> o/



11:47:04  <planetmaker> speaking of the devil ;)



11:47:06  <planetmaker> o/



11:47:06  <chillcore> someone called?



11:47:21  <Xarick> i forgot my password -> The e-mail/username information submitted could not be found.



11:47:24  <planetmaker> not exactly. I just wondered how you know that samu cannot recover / regain his forum account ;)



11:47:45  <chillcore> becuase the birdies told me ;)



11:47:50  <planetmaker> Xarick, did you try contacting oruge?



11:47:51  <Xarick> re-send activation email -> The e-mail/username information submitted could not be found.



11:47:52  <chillcore> no seriously though ...



11:48:01  <Xarick> yes



11:48:11  <planetmaker> and?



11:48:16  <Xarick> no answer



11:48:34  <chillcore> he did but his ticket was closed, frosh asked orudge and then told here in chat ... IIRC



11:48:51  <planetmaker> I see



11:48:56  <planetmaker> ah well. just wondering



11:49:15  <planetmaker> and I dislike double accounts :)



11:49:46  <chillcore> the reason it was closed (long ago) was "compromised account"



11:50:00  <chillcore> then samu stayed a way a very long time ...



11:50:13  <chillcore> I have no further details



11:50:27  <chillcore> not that I am willing to share anyway ;)



11:50:53  <chillcore> maybe orudge can merge the accounts I dunno if that is wise and not my call



11:52:10  <planetmaker> really? Mod forum history tells me that e-mail and password were changed by owen on samu's (repeated) request so that he cannot recover it himself



11:52:21  <chillcore> true



11:52:37  <planetmaker> Xarick, add to your forum signature "Formerly known as samu" (or something to that effect), please



11:52:48  <planetmaker> thus let's handle it like a normal nick change



11:53:00  <chillcore> I can not find the old thread with samu's last post, I guess it got deleted



11:53:25  <chillcore> for good reason ;)



11:53:39  <chillcore> maybe orudge can fill you in planetmaker?



11:53:54  <chillcore> ^^^ my preference anyway



11:54:07  <Xarick> i have a bad feeling about this



11:54:25  <planetmaker> fill me in what?



11:54:45  <chillcore> about that thread and the reason for closing his old account ;)



11:54:51  <chillcore> anyhoo



11:55:18  <planetmaker> chillcore, I cited from the thread concerning 'samu' in the privat mod forum ;) That should know the reasons, no?



11:55:49  <chillcore> most likely yes ... I have no access to it so I do not know what has been said there



11:56:50  <planetmaker> Xarick, anyway, your account was blocked on your own request; that's fine. But yes, please treat it as normal nick change



11:57:10  <planetmaker> thus indicate your previous identity. No need to feel bad about that, though



11:57:49  <Xarick> i had to stop, i was slightly mad



11:57:54  <Xarick> i remember part of it



11:58:40  <planetmaker> I remember, too. It's ok.



11:59:15  <chillcore> k. xarick moving forwards ... ;)



12:00:38  <chillcore> about your bugreport in FS#6235 ... yo may hevto handle loading old savegames in afterload.cpp



12:00:58  <chillcore> you may have too* ... charger cable :P



12:02:49  <Xarick> it's funny that the game still continues to function fine with that change, because that bit has no meaning as of now



12:02:55  <Xarick> that bit change



12:04:22  <planetmaker> why should it break, if you forget to zero an unused bit?



12:04:43  <Xarick> some industries have it as 1



12:05:09  <Xarick> those from non-patched have it 0



12:05:25  <Xarick> those from my patch have it either 0 or 1



12:08:20  <Xarick> pre-patch: always 0, post patch: 0 or 1, loading pre-patch save game in a post patch version, hmmm this is gonna be tough



12:12:43  <planetmaker> you've to insert a rule in the saveload code which sets the bit appropriately



12:12:43  <chillcore> have a browse through afterload.cpp ... should be pretty straightforward, from my uneducated guess concerning bitmagic that is.



12:15:02  <chillcore> anyone knows the best way to allow entering negative signs in queryboxes?



12:16:34  <chillcore> I could modifie the querybox code to have it inserted by togglebox. that would me to keep using CS_NUMERAL



12:17:17  <chillcore> + allow*



12:19:12  <chillcore> otherwise I have to let people enter normal text strings and convert that, but that seems like not such a good idea



12:20:48  <Xarick> what name do i use in irc?



12:20:54  <Xarick> samu?



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12:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause> how could any of us possibly answer this question?



12:24:13  <Samu> ok, samu



12:25:16  <chillcore> it will confuse less people for sure, as you changed in the middle of the night. ;)



12:26:28  * chillcore ponders doing sliders first and let the negative sign solution reveal itself when the time comes



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12:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause> negative numbers are a trivial regexp, right?



12:28:02  <Samu> savegame version 194



12:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> -?[0-9]+



12:28:28  <Samu> and newgrf version blabla no idea what that is, I'm not using any NewGRF



12:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you need to bump savegame version by 1, and then handle the conversion in afterloadgame



12:29:57  <chillcore> hmm never done that before eddi, thank you for the hint



12:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> note that savegame version bumps are a pain if not merged right away



12:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: if you can't do input verification by regexp, you probably shouldn't do it at all :p



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12:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> this is a big problem, because the common protocols use "<length><data>", which cannot be verified in regexp



12:33:42  <chillcore> I see ... I can make my params negative by making them so in the config



12:34:05  <Samu> savegame version 195 here we go



12:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause> this has nothing to do with your problem, btw :p



12:34:15  <Samu> only because of 1 bit



12:34:17  <Samu> lel



12:35:17  <Samu> which version are we at



12:35:41  <Samu> 27171



12:36:21  <chillcore> saveload/saveload.cpp tells you that samu ;)



12:36:40  <Samu> i knwo, that's what i'm editing



12:37:06  <chillcore> the number that is there is the current one ... that would be 194 then?



12:37:17  <chillcore> you have to make it 195



12:37:21  <Samu> yes



12:37:34  <Samu> but at the comment part, i put 195 27171



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12:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably wrong



12:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't commit the change at 27171



12:38:19  <Samu> oh, 27172



12:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> more like "195 this patch"



12:38:37  <Samu> ah, oki, better comment



12:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> where "this" should be replaced with an actual name :p



12:39:56  <planetmaker> that FS entry is quite remarkably void of any context or purpose of that change



12:40:34  <planetmaker> and I cannot say that the last days have shed any light on that from what I remember from irc either



12:43:17  <Samu> :)



12:44:30  <Samu> that bit 4 doesn't have any meaning as of now



12:44:43  <Samu> so, pointless fix



12:44:56  <Samu> but I hope to make use of it



12:45:20  <Samu> as someone else would, probably, whoever comes first



12:45:56  <planetmaker> it's pointless to add that change without anything requiring it



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13:00:13  <V453000> cat



13:02:32  <andythenorth> missing



13:02:40  <andythenorth> nobody has seen it



13:03:30  <V453000> call se polis



13:07:20  <Samu> i found this comment



13:07:25  <Samu> In old version there seems to be a problem that water is owned by



13:07:34  <Samu> 	 * OWNER_NONE, not OWNER_WATER.. I can't replicate it for the current



13:07:39  <Samu> 	 * (4.3) version, so I just check when versions are older, and then



13:07:45  <Samu> 	 * walk through the whole map.. */



13:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> 4.3 is really really ancient



13:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> like 10 years ago



13:08:57  <Samu> there's still water with OWNER_NONE today



13:09:06  <Samu> it depends on waterclass



13:09:18  <Samu> *cough* canal



13:10:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, canals are not naturally occuring water



13:10:25  <Samu> ok, nothing to be worried about then



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13:16:48  <chillcore> andy, <V453000> call se polis      <- cat is overhere ... in bag with "free mobile internet" simcard ... sending it back to where it came from. :P



13:17:04  <V453000> X



13:17:04  <V453000> D



13:17:12  <V453000> n0



13:17:18  <V453000> I mean meow



13:17:23  <chillcore> hehe



13:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "polis" means "city"



13:20:31  <V453000> cheezburgar



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13:25:23  <supermop_> yo



13:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no soy marinero



13:26:09  <__ln___> ya sabemos que eres tú



13:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what does "ya" mean?



13:27:30  <__ln___> already



13:28:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and "eres" is some weird tense?



13:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> like future/conditional?



13:30:29  <__ln___> present 2nd singular :/



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13:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> you sure?



13:31:09  <__ln___> http://www.wordreference.com/conj/ESverbs.aspx?v=ser



13:31:17  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm mixing up with french



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13:36:24  <V453000> anus



13:39:05  <Samu> why can we buy 100% shares from AIs in multiplayer? :(



13:39:16  <Samu> t.t



13:39:23  <Samu> just bought an AI by mistake



13:39:48  <chillcore> because server allows it samu, there is a setting for that IIRC



13:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> because the distinction is between AI and human company, not between single and multiplayer



13:40:06  <chillcore> ah ok ...



13:40:13  <Samu> rip Clueless Plus



13:43:42  <chillcore> Yay this works ...



13:43:46  <chillcore> case CS_NUMERAL:       return (key == '-') || (key >= '0' && key <= '9');



13:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: that probably allows - within the number



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13:44:33  <chillcore> maybe let me check ;)



13:46:55  <chillcore> it does eddi and everything after the sign gets cut ... leaving a positive nr if there was no leading sign



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13:47:41  <chillcore> should that be considered a programmers prob?



13:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes



13:48:17  <chillcore> if the sign is leading then it is fine



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13:49:40  <planetmaker> case CS_NUMERAL: return (key == '-' && first_key || key >= '0' && key <= '9');



13:49:43  <planetmaker> something like that



13:50:04  <planetmaker> whatever first_key then is ;)



13:50:18  <chillcore> testing ... thank you planetmaker



13:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> ... or just convert to regexp :)



13:52:10  <chillcore> first_key was not declared ... planetmaker



13:53:04  <chillcore> how do I do that eddi?



13:53:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you import a regexp library...



13:54:31  <chillcore> moar stuffs yay ... searching ...



13:55:36  <planetmaker> chillcore, yes, that's not declared. It's something you would need define somehow :)



13:56:34  <Eddi|zuHause> does C++11 have regexp builtin meanwhile?



13:57:41  <chillcore> regex?



14:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> if they called it that, yes



14:02:44  <chillcore> let's see if simply adding "#include <regex.h>" gives me any errors



14:03:56  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and they're indeed called regex (not regexp)



14:03:59  <chillcore> compiles fine ... now how to use it ...



14:04:02  <b_jonas> (in identifiers that is)



14:04:46  <b_jonas> chillcore: <regex.h> is the header for posix regexp functions, not the C++ regexes



14:04:58  <b_jonas> the C++11 regex stuff is declared in the <regex> header



14:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause> everything C++-specific is beyond my knowledge



14:07:54  <chillcore> hmm, ok b_jonas. You're talking kinda a strange to me language but still I appreciate the help/hints ;)



14:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> with posix you're probably getting problems in windows/visual studio



14:10:17  <chillcore> "include <regex>" gives errors



14:10:44  <chillcore> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.8/include/mm_malloc.h:42:24: error: ‘SAFEGUARD_DO_NOT_USE_THIS_METHOD’ was not declared in this scope



14:11:15  <planetmaker> :)



14:11:43  <chillcore> I wonder what the message means :P



14:14:13  <planetmaker> chillcore, it means it uses a memory access function which is banned in OpenTTD code. see src/safeguards.h



14:16:23  <V453000> how do bridges recolour? 8bit mask?



14:16:40  <planetmaker> there are special bridge recolour indices and sprites



14:16:40  <Eddi|zuHause> same as all other recolours



14:17:06  <planetmaker> thus the same as CC or water. Just different indices into the palette



14:17:10  <chillcore> so 'we' throw this error ... planetmaker



14:17:16  <planetmaker> chillcore, yes



14:17:23  <V453000> well sure I get that



14:17:25  <V453000> but which colours :D



14:17:32  <V453000> the special brown one? the cream-ish



14:17:36  <V453000> "special"



14:17:52  <chillcore> planetmaker: I get the feeling this is going to be one of them fun fun ones that needs platform specific code ...



14:18:14  <planetmaker> chillcore, why? (and actually what?)



14:18:27  <planetmaker> ah, the negative input



14:18:31  <planetmaker> hm... not sure.



14:18:38  <chillcore> validation of strings .. yes leading - sign



14:19:02  <planetmaker> I don't think it does. Platform-specific is only the way the keys are obtained. The rest should be independent



14:19:14  <chillcore> it being in the text box is not the prob ... it is making it idiot proof ...



14:19:16  <chillcore> ah ok



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14:19:36  <planetmaker> I might totally err. But... :)



14:20:07  <chillcore> hmm is there a nicer term in the 'industry' for "idiot proof"



14:20:22  <chillcore> should there be?



14:20:29  <chillcore> questions questions :P



14:21:03  <V453000> chillcore: user-friendly? :D



14:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: try the PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_* ones (in src/table/...)



14:21:15  <V453000> what



14:21:34  <V453000> I will just try to extract the colours from the original bridges



14:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: sprites 795..801



14:22:44  <chillcore> that about covers it ... V43000 but now I will always remember that when I see user-friendly in any context :P



14:23:12  <planetmaker> V453000, nah, don't :)



14:23:14  <V453000> 795..801 seems empty for ogfx XD



14:23:33  <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RecolorSprites



14:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause> they are recolour sprites, not real sprites



14:24:06  <planetmaker> recolour sprites are always empty images - as they're no images



14:24:13  <planetmaker> but colour translation tables so-to-speak



14:24:23  <V453000> right



14:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think the question he's trying to ask is "which are the 'source' colours in this colour map"



14:24:36  <V453000> so if I make the image in the right colours originally, it will work



14:25:10  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/base/base-0775-recolor.pnml



14:25:51  <V453000> hm so are the bridges just CC yellow, CC gray and CC cream or whatnot?



14:26:02  <planetmaker> V453000, that file ^ gives you the recolours. indexplace: colour mapped to



14:26:15  <planetmaker> thus you want to use the indexplace colour in your sprites



14:26:19  <V453000> but which apply to bridges XD



14:26:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i said so already: "PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_*"



14:27:23  <V453000> right



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14:28:14  <planetmaker> V453000, the last three bridges use it... to brown/yellow/silver. But you know that. Others... check openttd source :)



14:28:14  <V453000> it is like source...range : output..range



14:28:14  <V453000> right?



14:28:18  <planetmaker> yes



14:28:22  <V453000> great :)



14:28:23  <V453000> thanks



14:28:35  <planetmaker> for drawing you're only interested in source range



14:28:42  <V453000> I know :)



14:28:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably copy this file into your base set



14:28:45  <planetmaker> good :)



14:28:56  <planetmaker> you actually probably even should :)



14:29:06  <V453000> CONCRETE is the red bridge?



14:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> CONCRETE is grey



14:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> usually



14:29:24  <V453000> ok :D so red.



14:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause> red is the steel bridge



14:29:43  <V453000> ... the one small bridge which is also the middle of suspension bridges



14:29:43  <V453000> yes



14:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the default bridges you can look up in src/table/bridge_land.h



14:32:22  <V453000> ok so when I have this source-colour 8bpp file, I apply it to the sprite as a MASK?



14:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you make a 8bpp mask using the colours in the "source" range



14:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd applies the mask automatically with the builtin data



14:35:10  <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository/entry/infrastructure/bridges/bridge_suspension/8bpp/128m_0020.png this?



14:35:15  <Samu> FOR_ALL_INDUSTRIES .. hmm question is there a FOR_ALL_INDUSTRY but for TILES?



14:35:23  <Samu> all industry tiles



14:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: no



14:35:55  <Samu> :o



14:36:18  <V453000> mask applied like this?



14:36:19  <V453000> alternative_sprites (spriteset_train_SLUGfront, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) 	{template_32bpp_x1_vehicle8_MASK(0x00,0,"gfx_32bpp/SLUG_0000.png","gfx_32bpp/SLUG_mask_8bpp.png")}



14:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: you need to go over the whole map and bail out if not an industry tile



14:36:32  <Samu> so i scan all tiles, and when i find a industry tile, i set



14:36:36  <Samu> ok i see



14:36:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes



14:36:57  <Samu> will it include under construction tiles as well?



14:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: "if (!industrytile) continue;" or somesuch



14:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, this will include construction



14:37:28  <Samu> thx~



14:38:01  <planetmaker> V453000, applied like any mask to 32bpp sprites. Without looking it up, that might be right what you write



14:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i'll assume "yes", but i don't actually know the syntax



14:38:14  <V453000> good :)



14:38:27  <V453000> this is a mask applied to a NUTS vehicle



14:38:34  <V453000> only difference is that the mask is in CC colours :)



14:38:46  <planetmaker> yes. The game doesn't care



14:38:54  * V453000 NEITHER



14:38:54  <V453000> :>



14:38:59  <planetmaker> :D



14:39:00  <V453000> thanks



14:40:16  <V453000> why does zephyris have it as 1 colour though?



14:40:29  <V453000> cuz fuck it? :D



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14:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause> because he's too lazy to use more than 1 colour



14:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> may give poorer results



14:50:22  <V453000> right, so cuz fuck it



14:51:30  <planetmaker> err... OpenGFX bridges for sure use more than one colour



14:51:48  <V453000> sure I was looking at zbase



14:51:56  <V453000> hence the shit I linked :P



14:52:12  <planetmaker> and for zBase... the value of the mask is convoluted with the brightness of the 32bpp sprite. So one colour seems to have sufficed for him



14:52:20  <planetmaker> more colours might give better results, though



14:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> zbase is occasionally critizised for its poor recolour results



14:53:02  <V453000> NUTS has horrendous recolour results with multiple colours :P



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15:04:27  <Samu> question - https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p4wa2bsjj



15:04:38  <Samu> is that how it should look?



15:05:32  <Samu> duh, it's to set to 0, not 1



15:06:06  <Samu> no wait, it's to set from 0 to 1



15:07:08  <Samu> in every case, for now



15:11:59  <Samu> ok just tested, looks like this is it



15:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> could use a comment what you're actually trying to do



15:14:52  <Samu> retain bit 4



15:15:12  <Samu> convert to new version



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15:15:14  <Samu> something



15:15:18  <Samu> i dunno



15:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not it.



15:15:57  <Samu> i am thinking in advance, arg



15:16:23  <Samu> brb



15:17:05  <Samu> bit 4 was 0 in old version



15:17:31  <Samu> now it's 1



15:17:36  <Samu> not really, but



15:17:46  <Samu> it would be 1 if that was loaded



15:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean something like this: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/padnup7ox



15:17:52  <Samu> as a new version



15:18:25  <Samu> oh, ok, i have more space there



15:19:40  <planetmaker> hm, what was the issue with that patch, Eddi|zuHause ? sprites?



15:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the drawing code



15:20:12  <Eddi|zuHause> sprites exist, just need to be assembled



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15:20:47  <supermop_> NIGHT



15:20:51  <supermop_> ooops



15:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also an unsolved question about how to handle loading old savegames, because trucks waiting in the middle of a crossing will just start up and run into the train ahead



15:22:10  <Eddi|zuHause> also needs updating 6k-ish revisions :p



15:25:44  <Samu> Upon loading an old save game, the old bit 4 information is not being converted to the new bit 4 information. It affects all Industries.



15:25:53  <Samu> FIX IT



15:25:55  <Samu> :)



15:26:07  <Samu> will that comment do?



15:27:02  <Samu> correction, all industry tiles



15:27:06  <Samu> tiles of type industry



15:27:17  <Samu> whatever you deem correct



15:27:32  <chillcore> there is the little detail missing about why you move it ...



15:27:59  <chillcore> "something I dunno ..." will not do I think



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15:29:42  <Samu> because it was not supposed to alter bit 4?



15:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it's actually only like 500 revisions



15:30:28  <Samu> the explanation is kinda pointless because it's not fixing anything



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15:31:09  <Samu> crap i suck at explaining



15:31:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, m6 was moved from _m to _me. anything else i need to worry about?



15:31:44  <planetmaker> franky: yes. Don't stick with your explanation to the code lines. But explain on a higher level what problem exists, samu



15:32:11  <Samu> on a higher level, that bit does nothing



15:32:43  <Samu> but should it do something, in one day in the future, that bit is being misused "today", this fixes it



15:35:13  <planetmaker> how is it mis-used?



15:35:26  <Samu> it's not "not used"



15:35:49  <Samu> it's being forced to be 0



15:36:02  <planetmaker> obviously it is not being used. Anything not being used is zeroed



15:36:10  <planetmaker> For good reason



15:36:17  <Samu> well then it is being used



15:36:21  <planetmaker> no



15:36:45  <Samu> how do I explain it



15:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "used" is semantic. the bit is still "accessed"



15:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no semantic to this bit, hence it's "unused"



15:37:35  <planetmaker> yes



15:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause> as in "you are free to add semantic to this bit"



15:38:33  <Samu> semantic?



15:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics



15:39:20  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: do you mean to say that it's always zero currently, but in future versions setting it to one could mean something, so it has to be zeroed now when writte to savefiles, right?



15:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: something like that



15:41:19  <Samu> pre-patch: always 0, post patch: 0 or 1



15:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that still has the problem of being totally void of semantics



15:42:26  <Samu> loading pre-patch to post-patch: turn to 1, no matter what it was



15:43:11  <chillcore> and what does the 1 mean then?



15:43:24  <Samu> nothing



15:43:36  <Samu> but it's better correct



15:44:06  <Samu> i must dig my excel file



15:44:39  <planetmaker> if this conversation was a painting, it would resemble something from Dahli or Escher. Pretty sure



15:44:55  <b_jonas> do you mean Dali?



15:45:00  <planetmaker> yes, sorry



15:45:14  <Samu> i also wanna be sure i'm not mistaking something



15:45:30  <Samu> i've got all my observations written down



15:45:34  <Eddi|zuHause> surely it's Dalí



15:46:12  <planetmaker> ce ci n'est pas un Magritte



15:47:51  <Samu> when that bit is sea, it's value is 1



15:48:03  <Samu> build a canal, turns to 0



15:48:26  <Samu> build industry on top of canal, turns to 1, then immediately to 0 -< pre-patch behaviour



15:48:56  <Samu> build industry on top of canal, turns to 1, maintain that value, 1 < post-patch behaviour



15:49:08  <Samu> then it's allways 1



15:49:15  <planetmaker> and when built on river?



15:49:16  <Samu> or it's always 0



15:49:43  <Samu> river is 1



15:49:55  <planetmaker> so what's the difference between river and canal?



15:49:59  <Samu> turns to 1, then immediately to 0 - pre patch



15:50:10  <Samu> turns to 1, then maintain value, 1 - post patch



15:50:52  <Samu> currently when an industry is built, the owner is set to OWNER_NONE, that means bit 4 is equal to 1



15:51:14  <Samu> then immediately after setting it to 1, that's what happens



15:52:30  <Samu> river owner is also water, but when an industry is built there, it only retains the value of bit 4



15:52:39  <Samu> which is



15:52:40  <Samu> 1



15:54:20  <Samu> the value is 0 when a company is building canals, then places an oil rig in it, however, the game still changes the owner to NO_OWNER for the industry, right before transforming it to a tile of type industry, that's why converting it to 1 for now, is sufficient



15:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that still does not answer the question: why?



15:56:48  <Samu> because landscape grid also mentions the bit 4 of industry tile as being unused. It is being accessed, used, zero'ed, it just doesn't have any actual meaning for now. I can't explain better than this, sorry



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15:57:25  <V453000> sure but purpose? :D



15:57:37  <Samu> respect the grid



15:57:53  <Samu> future usage for the bit?



15:59:33  <Samu> ah I see, the fix is incomplete?



16:01:08  <Samu> I don't understand what you want me to say



16:01:31  <Samu> it will never be 0?



16:01:59  <chillcore> you eat to no longer be hungry ... you sleep to no longer be tired



16:02:08  <chillcore> you change bit order to ...



16:02:18  <chillcore> ?



16:03:07  <Samu> i think i understand what's missing, yeah this patch is still not complete



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16:03:50  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth



16:03:59  <chillcore> and once it is complete you willhave completed it for ... ?



16:04:10  <Alberth> ever



16:04:10  <chillcore> that is the question samu ... why?



16:04:40  <chillcore> o/ Alberth



16:05:08  <Samu> it needs to fix one more thing apparently, the OWNER_NONE for industry is ruining it



16:05:38  <Samu> that's why the game was forcing it to be 0



16:07:27  <Samu> i change bit order to preserve bit 4 before it turns into an industry tile



16:07:39  <Alberth> s/was/is/, right?



16:08:31  <Samu> industry tile is not supposed to touch bit 4



16:08:37  <Samu> but to leave it be



16:09:38  <Samu> glx knew this already



16:09:56  <Samu> somewhere in DoIndustryblabla, must find it



16:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> <Samu> industry tile is not supposed to touch bit 4 <-- again, you're imposing a logic on it that neither is there, nor has any reason to be there



16:11:46  <Samu> a bit is unused



16:11:54  <Samu> is that bit unused or not?



16:12:19  <Alberth> yep, it means nobody cares about its value, and it may get a different meaning at any time



16:15:53  <Samu> I wrote this in the bugspray According to both landscape and landscape grid documentation, I believe that bit location was free to be used and never touched for anything related to industry tiles. I discovered the issue when I was searching for free, unused bits. For me, it would be preferrible if that bit value was preserved, hence this patch.



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16:17:38  <Samu> i thought it was being changed only once, but it's not, it's being changed in two places in the code, I found one of the places, but there's another... glx pointed out the other day



16:17:52  <Samu> damn me



16:20:36  <Alberth> "unused" does not imply "untouched"



16:21:01  <Alberth> if you don't want it touched, there should be something defined for it



16:21:08  <Alberth> *untouched



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16:22:17  <chillcore> DoCreateNewIndustry()     is what glx mentioned as he told you that you were not yet aware of some things happening, samu



16:22:29  <Samu> yes, yes exactly that



16:22:38  <Samu> ty



16:22:48  <chillcore> np



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16:24:28  <Samu> Owner founder



16:24:32  <Samu> this part



16:27:00  <chillcore> founder is the one paying for it ... not the owner



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16:30:10  <Samu> looking for that misterious step which sets OWNER_NONE



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16:31:20  <chillcore>  * @param founder Founder of the industry; OWNER_NONE in case of random construction.



16:31:32  <chillcore> please continue explaining ...



16:31:51  <Samu> i say OWNER_NONE but it could be any of those that sets bit 4 to 1, there's more that fit the criteria



16:32:04  <Samu> OWNER_DEITY?



16:32:40  <Samu> what I know is that the bit suddenly becomes 1 in a misterious way



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16:43:16  <Samu> is this it? if (i->founder == old_owner) i->founder = (new_owner == INVALID_OWNER) ? OWNER_NONE : new_owner;



16:44:01  <Samu> static void ChangeTileOwner_Industry(TileIndex tile, Owner old_owner, Owner new_owner)



16:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: probably not.



16:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that changes stuff in the industry, not in the industrytile



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16:58:21  <juzza1> what's the proper format for a patch sent to openttd flyspray? svn diff?



17:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> any diff will probably do



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17:04:43  <Alberth> any unified diff :)



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17:07:19  <chillcore> properly validating negative nrs:     while (str > first && str <= last && *str != '\0') RemoveNegativeSignsFromString();



17:07:27  <chillcore> ^^^ pseudocode



17:07:38  <chillcore> that should do it right?



17:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i thought the idea was to make it so you can't actually enter the extra characters, not to remove them afterwards



17:09:35  <chillcore> or would it be better prevent negative signs being anything other then the leading character



17:09:38  <chillcore> hehe



17:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: also, this looks weird at best



17:10:04  <chillcore> except for the 'first'  part it is a copy of existing code



17:10:47  <chillcore> string.cpp



17:11:09  <chillcore> StrValid and others



17:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose string handling in C(++) is always weird...



17:12:40  <chillcore> hmm ... pondering on ...



17:14:24  <Alberth> don't understand that pseudo code, but  I don't understand your goal either :)



17:14:37  <chillcore> still silly us proggers we have to keep people from entering "-12-34"



17:14:56  <chillcore> allowing entering a negative sign in querybox Alberth



17:15:17  <chillcore> 		case CS_NUMERAL:       return (key == '-') || (key >= '0' && key <= '9');



17:15:21  <chillcore> this works



17:15:38  <chillcore> but eg -"12-34" comes out as 12



17:15:47  <chillcore> or -12



17:16:08  <Alberth> I'd expect so yeah :p



17:16:40  <chillcore> to be clear ... -12-34 becomes -12 .... 1234-568 becomes 1234



17:16:46  <chillcore> otherwise it works



17:16:55  <Terkhen> hello



17:17:05  <chillcore> hi Terkhen



17:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i suppose you could add a parameter "position" to that function



17:17:33  <chillcore> so I need to strip non leading signs or prevent them being entered



17:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: then allow '-' only if position==0



17:18:51  <chillcore> directly when entering a number ... k



17:19:19  <chillcore> I've seen many examples of regex but non tackle this particular prob



17:19:41  <chillcore> either they are not aware or ... I dunno



17:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (that is basically what planetmaker meant when he said "first_key")



17:19:55  <Alberth> ^-?[0-9]+



17:20:30  <chillcore> then I can not add the sign alberth, I tried that, but I will try again to make sure



17:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: you could replace this check with a regexp, but that means passing the whole resulting string, instead of the char being entered



17:20:43  <chillcore> ok



17:20:56  <Alberth> adding some form of position seems easier to me



17:21:12  <Alberth> (no idea what the code is there at this time though)



17:21:39  <chillcore> case CS_NUMERAL:       return (key == '-') || (key >= '0' && key <= '9');



17:22:22  <chillcore> after allowing the negative sign trunk does not have that part yet



17:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: you could go up one level, and try to alter the check there



17:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. change where this function is used, instead of this function



17:23:49  <chillcore> I was thinking about that but there the invalid chars are converted to '?'



17:23:51  <Samu> i can't do this



17:24:01  <chillcore> I admit I have some more digging to do



17:25:14  <Alberth> return (first_char && key == '-') || (key >= '0' && key <= '9')



17:25:42  <Samu> how's an industry built?



17:25:48  <Samu> there's so many ways :(



17:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i mean like where it says "IsValidChar(c, CS_NUMERAL)" you could replace it with "IsValidChar(c, position==0?CS_NUMERAL_MINUS:CS_NUMERAL)"



17:26:56  <Alberth> Samu: CmdBuildIndustry  or so



17:27:05  <chillcore> I understood Eddi, just not there yet, thank you for the hint



17:27:54  <Samu> upon the act of actually making the tiles of an industry it defines all them as OWNER_NONE



17:28:04  <Samu> where is this



17:28:07  <Samu> ok searching



17:28:19  <Alberth> industry_cmd.cpp



17:29:41  <Alberth> All user actions are a Cmd<something>



17:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afl9WFGJE0M



17:32:07  <chillcore> hmm isValidChar is called from a different file or files ... yay



17:32:38  <chillcore> cool that youtube links are properly readable here



17:32:40  <NGC3982> Simcity 4, or 3?



17:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> 4



17:37:27  <Alberth> :O even CS_HEXADECIMAL is used :)



17:37:52  <chillcore> eddi: moehahaha "minister of OMFG"



17:38:31  <chillcore> ye alberth, that would have been my next question "do I do the others too?"



17:38:55  <chillcore> first let's see if I can make 1 work properly :P



17:39:13  <Alberth> the other ones are trivial after that :p



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17:39:35  <Alberth> hola



17:40:09  <frosch123> hai :)



17:40:13  <chillcore> o/



17:42:26  <chillcore> hmm IsValidChar is called from 10 times places the code



17:42:53  <chillcore> -times



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17:48:42  <Alberth> hmm, see only 8 uses :)



17:50:11  <chillcore> possible that it is two times in the same function twice



17:50:38  <chillcore> ack-grep shows it to me 11 times of which one is the declaration



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17:52:39  <Alberth> I was omitting the function declaration and definition :)



17:52:48  <chillcore> ok



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18:00:28  <planetmaker> hi hi



18:15:46  <NGC3982> My core2duo couldn't even handle simcity 4.



18:15:50  <NGC3982> I hate everything.



18:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> use fewer mods, play smaller city?



18:17:28  <Alberth> 1 tile is sufficient :)



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18:18:37  <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: M..mods? There are mods? :)



18:18:49  * NGC3982 installs Simcity 2000.



18:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hundreds!



18:19:20  <NGC3982> I zoomed in, and everything halted.



18:19:30  <NGC3982> Although, i guess the core2duo is not the issue



18:19:39  <NGC3982> It might be the absolute lack of graphics hardware.



18:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a switch between software and hardware graphics



18:20:08  <NGC3982> Should that help me, really?



18:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if the hardware doesn't handle graphics, switching to software may improve things



18:20:47  <Alberth> alternatively, connect a monitor to it? :)



18:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i used that switch mainly to avoid the hundreds of glitches, though



18:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> also, turn off traffic and stuff



18:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i think SC2k did not age well



18:23:24  <Alberth> hmm, nobody bothered to document the industry chain window at the wiki



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18:31:56  <Alberth> o/



18:32:17  <chillcore> ST2: Can you send me a PM on tt-forums please, I found that zip I talked about yesterday but I can not find your profile ... forum does not allow searching for three letters only. ;)



18:32:40  <ST2> haha, ok :)



18:33:26  <chillcore> thanks



18:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that always trips me off...



18:34:26  <andythenorth> o/



18:36:15  <Samu> found an obscure bug again



18:36:44  <Samu> prospecting always fails if all canals are from a company



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18:37:09  <Samu> and canals owned by companies is the only water in the map



18:37:32  <Samu> prospecting oil rig, of course



18:37:38  <glx> should work if it's your company



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18:38:10  <Samu> it doesn't, if i understand the code, it is attempting to build as OWNER_TOWN



18:38:24  <frosch123> you don't own industries, so they are not allowed on your canals



18:38:37  <frosch123> fire your manager



18:38:55  <Samu> i can fund oil rigs on my canals, but not prospect



18:39:07  <Samu> let me retry



18:39:39  <glx> prospection may fail



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18:40:06  <frosch123> nothing to worry about, it is suposed to work like that



18:40:09  <Samu> funding on my canal works, prospecting when every water tile in the world is mine, doesn't



18:40:19  <frosch123> prospecting has no owner, explizit positioning has



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18:40:38  <glx> and prospecting costs money even when it fails



18:40:57  <Samu> i wasted about £100,000,000



18:41:01  <Samu> there's sufficient water



18:41:04  <Samu> never spawned



18:41:31  <glx> but it's not unowned water



18:41:54  <Samu> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, OWNER_TOWN, FILE_LINE);



18:42:20  <Samu> and a comment



18:42:20  <Samu> 			/* Prospected industries are build as OWNER_TOWN to not e.g. be build on owned land of the founder */



18:42:42  <glx> yes it's like that on purpose



18:43:36  <Samu> shortly after, the founding way



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18:44:38  <Samu> there's no back up



18:44:41  <Samu> 			ret = CreateNewIndustryHelper(tile, it, flags, indspec, layout, random_var8f, random_initial_bits, _current_company, _current_company == OWNER_DEITY ? IACT_RANDOMCREATION : IACT_USERCREATION, &ind);



18:45:06  <Samu> builds as deity?



18:45:21  <glx> no it builds as _current_company



18:46:02  <Samu> if the company founds it, it's as_current_company?



18:46:13  <Samu> if it's randomcreation it's as owner_deity?



18:46:43  <Samu> seems to conform to my observations



18:46:45  <glx> _current_company is OWNER_TOWN for prospecting



18:47:05  <Samu> yes, but this part of the code is after the else {



18:47:07  <glx> OWNER_DEITY is mainly for game scripts



18:47:25  <Samu> line 1920



18:49:06  <glx> else part is for scenario



18:49:38  <glx> and manually funded industries



18:51:23  <Samu> what i observe is, oil rigs don't randomly generate on the map on their own



18:51:44  <Samu> all the water are canals with a company owner



18:51:59  <glx> that's why they can't appear



18:52:16  <Samu> hmm is this from the first part or after the else part?



18:52:25  <Samu> strange



18:53:34  <Samu> when the game decides on its own "oh let's build an industry", that's actually doing a prospect action?



18:53:40  <Samu> hmm



18:53:43  <glx> yes



18:53:48  <Samu> interesting



18:54:02  <glx> well it's a DEITY action



18:54:13  <glx> prospection depends on settings



18:54:15  <Samu> prospecting as deity?



18:56:59  <Samu> OWNER_TOWN



18:57:06  <Samu> OWNER_DEITY



18:57:09  <Samu> OWNER_NONE



18:57:11  <Samu> :(



18:57:34  <chillcore> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorZcOzNcgE



18:57:43  <chillcore> still one of my favorites ;)



19:01:42  <glx> ah no it's done as OWNER_NONE, it's in daily loop



19:04:34  <Alberth> chillcore:  it makes me want to look up my deep purple cd :)



19:09:31  <chillcore> go for it. ;)



19:11:00  <chillcore> I'll be afk for a bit ;)



19:15:33  <Samu> im tired



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19:32:59  <Wolf01> hi hi o/



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19:37:35  <Alberth> o/



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19:46:33  <Samu> sorry, can't figure this out



19:51:06  <frosch123> some of the titlegames are weird



19:51:40  <andythenorth> some of the weird games are titles



19:51:42  * andythenorth is babbling



19:52:37  <Samu> i really try, but i can't do this



19:52:52  <Samu> wasted all this afternoon trying to fix this



19:53:47  <chillcore> not wasted samu ... you learned new stuffs too



19:56:30  <Samu> it's here, somewhere at this part CreateNewIndustryHelper



19:57:29  <glx> it's probably upper



20:00:51  <frosch123> meh, binary decisions



20:01:06  <frosch123> i cannot decide whether a titlegame with a train crash is a good or a bad thing



20:01:26  <Samu> static CommandCost CreateNewIndustryHelper(TileIndex tile, IndustryType type, DoCommandFlag flags, const IndustrySpec *indspec, uint itspec_index, uint32 random_var8f, uint16 random_initial_bits, Owner founder, IndustryAvailabilityCallType creation_type, Industry **ip)



20:01:30  <glx> not a good thing I'd say frosch123



20:02:34  <Samu> "Owner founder", but how...



20:02:43  <Samu> gah help me out



20:03:25  <Samu> before that tile becomes 0x80, it is either ground or water



20:04:03  <Samu> just before setting it as an industry tile, i must have some code there to grab the bit 4 value



20:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that is probably nowhere near the place where you think it is...



20:04:44  <Samu> grab then restore



20:05:00  <Samu> so as to keep it's original value



20:05:06  <Samu> then where is it



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20:05:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that function makes an industry, not an industrytile



20:05:39  <frosch123> oh dear, the titlegames of this year are terrible



20:06:12  <Samu> where is industry tile



20:06:44  <Samu> sorry, i am quite tired



20:07:04  <frosch123> usually i first narrow them down to those which are reasonable, excluding those which are broken, use signals incorrectly or similar...



20:07:14  <frosch123> but this time this only leaves me with 3...



20:07:34  <planetmaker> maybe too short notice time



20:07:42  <planetmaker> it's a few less than last year



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20:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> has anyone ever tried taking someone's submission, fixing some obvious errors, and resubmitting it?



20:10:11  <chillcore> frosh: give peeps another week to work on it? while pointing out obvious disturbing factors?



20:10:22  <chillcore> not sure how that will come across though ...



20:11:55  <frosch123> chillcore: nah, the remaining 3 are fine



20:12:16  <frosch123> it just was a very easy choice to decide



20:12:22  <frosch123> was a lot harder the previous years



20:12:35  <chillcore> ok



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20:17:23  <frosch123> chillcore: just to list some weirdnesses of this round: one game was directly at the map border so half of the screen was black; one game had lots of tracks without a single signal; one game had an intentional train crash (less fancy than last year though); many games have incorrect signalling (different signals are kind of ues to make the junctions colourful or so)



20:18:35  <chillcore> yeah not really representative



20:21:35  <Samu> ah i read albert answer



20:21:48  <Samu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/6235



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20:24:42  <Wolf01> andythenorth: lego mixels are a drug



20:24:43  <Samu> bringing back my excel file



20:24:48  <andythenorth> Wolf01: really? o_O



20:24:51  <andythenorth> my kids had some



20:24:59  <andythenorth> didn’t float my boat :)



20:25:41  <Samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx



20:26:32  <Samu> nevermind, i'm too tired



20:26:44  <Wolf01> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32091244@N08/16591649472/in/pool-legomixelmocs/ look at this, I have the same ones, and I'm here doing sh**ty stuff instead of these masterpieces... need moar



20:28:07  <Samu> I'm lost in my thoughts



20:28:25  <NGC3982> I found Simcity 4 a bit boring.



20:28:28  <NGC3982> What else should i try?



20:28:35  <NGC3982> I want something that at least look like that.



20:28:35  <Wolf01> lego mixels



20:28:58  <Samu> minesweep



20:30:24  <Wolf01> I always wanted a city builder with ages, I don't ask one from monolithic civilizatios to space age, but roman-medieval-modern would be cool



20:31:23  <Samu> warcraft 3



20:31:27  <chillcore> NGC3982: not quite the same but stronghold is mucho fun ... the original one, not yet tried any of the later ones so.



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20:33:40  <Zuu> frosch123: I didn't look on your vote but came to the same conclusion as you :-)



20:33:57  <frosch123> Zuu: so we are three :)



20:34:04  <frosch123> michi_cc did as well :p



20:34:12  <frosch123> must be some dev-illness or so :)



20:34:15  <Zuu> hehe



20:34:21  <NGC3982> chillcore: I'll take a look :)



20:38:05  <chillcore> see ya in a couple of days :P



20:38:19  <frosch123> bye



20:41:01  <Alberth> andythenorth:  should BB have a changelog or so?



20:41:10  <Alberth> or a features list?



20:41:39  <frosch123> Changelog: Removed feature list



20:41:44  <frosch123> Feature: No changelog



20:42:29  <Alberth> :)



20:49:10  <chillcore> how long has it been that the trunk titlegame was the stable one too?



20:49:52  <andythenorth> Alberth: I dunno, I like a changelog



20:50:05  <andythenorth> after writing it, I can just paste it into the forum post



20:50:34  <Alberth> k



20:52:40  <frosch123> chillcore: 1.0 had the first competition



20:58:52  <Samu> nanana



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20:59:30  <LordAro> http://xkcd.com/851/



20:59:31  <LordAro> Na.



20:59:43  <chillcore> frosch: Ah so before that it was that one all the time, I joined when it was 6.3 or something so did not really pay that much attention ... every year I have been telling myself to make a submission ... maybe next year I will.



21:00:20  <frosch123> the nightly titlegame was the release titlegame from 0.3 to 0.7 or something



21:00:28  <frosch123> maybe 0.4 instead of 0.3, no idea



21:00:38  <frosch123> but it was actually modified slightly a few times



21:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i only know two of these songs



21:04:37  <planetmaker> chillcore, you can make such game every time. Even now. Then you have it ready next time



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21:04:55  <planetmaker> so there really is no need to make it "just in time"



21:05:15  <planetmaker> it can be even one of your normal games you like, if it otherwise meets the criteria



21:05:28  <planetmaker> depends on your playing style, obviously



21:05:56  <chillcore> true planetmaker, prob is my "current" savegames are littered with newgrf



21:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> who seriously plays games without newgrfs?



21:06:33  <planetmaker> dunno. Sometimes maybe :)



21:06:50  <planetmaker> but yes, that usually is the culprit which makes this path not so much viable



21:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even remember playing an unpatched game



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21:07:20  <Eddi|zuHause> since MiniIN



21:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> there was the elrails patch, then YAPP, then some other patchpacks, cargodist, yacd...



21:08:42  <frosch123> minin existed after elrails



21:08:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i even played a patched MiniIN with the bridge patch



21:08:58  <frosch123> though it started before likely



21:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i also played cargodest



21:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause> at some point i modified a semi-clean trunk to load my YAPP game



21:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that can now be opened with clean trunk



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21:16:11  <Eddi|zuHause> even when my games where technically trunk-loadable, i had several patches applied. usually a daylength patch



21:16:46  <chillcore> something like this I would like to submit ... someday maybe ... https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28633&start=557



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21:17:44  <chillcore> but with added water, airport and other thingies



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21:25:02  <chillcore> hmm thinking some more about negative sign in the querybox



21:25:31  <chillcore> just checking if it is the first char that is being entered will not do IMHO



21:25:37  <frosch123> it's different to the other modes, since - can only be in front



21:25:57  <frosch123> if you currently enter "5-3" it only takes the "5"



21:26:03  <chillcore> yes but what if I enter the sign ... move cursor to front and do the same?



21:26:21  <chillcore> it will think I enter the first again



21:26:25  <frosch123> (you can enter it, by setting it to -3 via the inc/dec buttons, and then add a 5 via the input box)



21:27:02  <chillcore> I figured it out how to enter it ... it is just that the behaviour is not very nice



21:27:22  <chillcore> you can do -152-365 and get -152 as result



21:27:28  <frosch123> two options: A. only allow entering the "-" at front, and do not allow inserting stuff in front



21:27:54  <frosch123> B. make the "-" unselectable, and make the "-" key toggle the sign independent of where the cursor is



21:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: that brings us back to regexp



21:28:08  <chillcore> indeed



21:28:52  <chillcore> frosch: C. let them enter it and remove all negative signs that are not leading



21:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> when entering a character, make a copy of the current string, add the character, validate the new string with the regexp, and allow or discard the change



21:29:45  <chillcore> that is a possibility too



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21:30:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you just have to replace each of the CS_blah with a regexp



21:31:16  <Eddi|zuHause> which should be easy, once you've figured out how to use regexp :)



21:31:36  <chillcore> "just" I already have barely a clue what I am doing now :P



21:32:17  <frosch123> you can also visit eddi, and stay there until it is done :p



21:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that works, maybe not :)



21:33:14  <chillcore> now there is an idea ...



21:33:37  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: What's the equivalent for "Mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schießen" again? :p



21:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: regexp is hardly a "cannon" ;)



21:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to use regexp for something in the past, but i totally forgot what it was...



21:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean regexp in C++



21:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause> regexp are of course trivial in python :)



21:35:26  <frosch123> maybe you wanted to emulate a turing machine in sed



21:35:27  <LordAro> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/regex



21:36:11  <frosch123> yeah, c++11 is trying hard to catch up with python and java :)



21:36:31  <LordAro> maybe you should try to catch up with c++11 :p



21:36:36  <LordAro> only 4 years old now ;)



21:36:53  <frosch123> well, i am still baffled they added stochastical distributions to it



21:37:21  <LordAro> :D



21:38:28  <LordAro> http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/header/random also these others :)



21:38:36  <frosch123> so, yeah c++11 tries hard to catch up with python, java, matlab and R :p



21:39:11  <LordAro> c++ tried hard to catch up with *



21:39:12  <LordAro> :p



21:39:16  <LordAro> tries*



21:40:09  <chillcore> bah ... --123456789 gives 0



21:40:35  <frosch123> LordAro: yeah, but why is the gamma distribution not derived from the weibull distribution?



21:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> [Montag, 27. September 2010] [15:59:08] <Eddi|zuHause>  dihedral: what i discussed yesterday with frosch, inputting fixed point values from 4/16 to 128/16 by various means (e.g. 0.25, 125%, 9/8) in one editbox



21:40:42  <Eddi|zuHause> [Montag, 27. September 2010] [16:00:09] <Eddi|zuHause>  for setting the production multiplier



21:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that ever got anywhere :p



21:41:16  <LordAro> frosch123: probably is in implementation



21:41:16  <frosch123> you "discussed" that bollocks with me? :p



21:41:29  <chillcore> I looked at stackoverflow for about an hour and a half this afternoon



21:41:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no memory of that :p



21:41:44  <chillcore> seems lots of peeps don't even realise this happening



21:41:51  <frosch123> LordAro: it's even only the 2-parameter weibull one, not the 3-parameter one



21:42:52  <chillcore> they all figure out how to allow negative signs but don't consider it being entered again somewhere halfway



21:43:01  <chillcore> there must be a more elegant solution



21:43:41  <Alberth> code the regex as a state machine, and let the matcher decide a match and the next state :p



21:44:11  <frosch123> all computers are finite state machines :p



21:45:19  <LordAro> frosch123: hmm, not in clang, it would seem http://llvm.org/viewvc/llvm-project/libcxx/trunk/include/random?view=markup



21:45:20  <frosch123> i hide my turing machine in the garage, guarded by unicorns



21:45:27  <Alberth> yeah, the state space is a little bigger than the number of all atoms in the universe :p



21:45:40  <LordAro> as far as i can tell, i can't read stl code



21:46:11  <Samu> create new industry of random layout



21:46:18  <Samu> static Industry *CreateNewIndustry(TileIndex tile, IndustryType type, IndustryAvailabilityCallType creation_type)



21:46:55  <frosch123> LordAro: http://code.metager.de/source/xref/gnu/glibc/string/memset.c <- well, can you read that? :p



21:47:25  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2010-09-26?page=2



21:48:18  <LordAro> frosch123: oh, it's well known that g[lib|cc] is much worse :p



21:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: again, you need industrytile, not industry...



21:48:47  <LordAro> frosch123: i always like https://gist.github.com/dchest/1091803



21:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: why can't i scroll on that page?



21:50:07  <Samu> where is it?



21:51:26  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: work for me



21:51:32  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it needs its script to run



21:51:43  <Alberth> silly web sites :p



21:51:46  <frosch123> LordAro: also nice :) but once you get to GNU Hello it is kind of fake :p



21:53:35  <Samu> there are too many industrytile results



21:54:42  <LordAro> frosch123: there's also http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c and its counterpart http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/false.c



21:54:49  <Alberth> yep, we have a lot of industry tiles :)



21:55:21  <chillcore> have look in industry.h samu ... maybe you find something in there to narrow it down?



21:55:27  <chillcore> I dunno really



21:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that's why we have map accessors neatly grouted into files



21:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> *grouped



21:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause> namely files that have "map" in their name



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21:59:13  <Samu> industry map?



21:59:40  <chillcore> that sound like a good idea ... also line 16 in that file ...



22:00:25  <Samu> #include "water_map.h"



22:03:14  <Samu> im not sure what to look for



22:03:38  <Samu> i've been into these files, but can't figure out anything from them



22:03:58  <Samu> industry_cmd.cpp



22:06:17  <Samu> map_type.h



22:09:15  <Samu> I'm running in circles



22:09:20  <Samu> like you use to say



22:09:49  <chillcore> that is because you are too much focussing on 1 single detail



22:10:04  <chillcore> that single bit that changes for some reason that is not even used



22:10:09  <Samu> this? static inline void MakeIndustry(TileIndex t, IndustryID index, IndustryGfx gfx, uint8 random, WaterClass wc)



22:10:38  <Samu> can't be that



22:11:11  <Samu> SetTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY);



22:11:19  <Samu> _m[t].m1 &= 1<<4; // Make sure bit 4 is unaffected.



22:11:29  <Samu> _m[t].m2 = index;



22:11:41  <Samu> etc etcc, rest unchanged



22:11:47  <Samu> it's not this



22:11:52  <Samu> where you want me to look at



22:14:44  <chillcore> I do not know samu because each time we ask you what exactly you want to do and why ... you evade the question ... and answer "I need to change that too"



22:15:16  <chillcore> answer why and what first ... for yourself



22:15:37  <Samu> i'm so confused



22:15:46  <chillcore> just changing bit order for the sake of changing it is not valid



22:16:17  <Samu> ok, it happens between step 1 and 2



22:17:07  <chillcore> samu ... why do you care that "it" happens. what is it? why do you not want "it" to happen



22:17:35  <chillcore> does it make a differnece if "it" happens or not



22:17:40  <chillcore> that bit is unused



22:18:26  <chillcore> as long as you can not answer that question it is very very hard for us to help you ...



22:18:33  <chillcore> why?



22:18:54  <Samu> from the beginning, again



22:19:09  <Samu> there is a canal of company 1



22:19:27  <Samu> means that bit 4 is currently 0, it's the 5th bit of owner



22:19:51  <Samu> then when i place a oil rig



22:20:22  <Samu> it turns to 1, the tile becomes industry, and that 1 appears there



22:20:28  <Samu> 1xxxx



22:20:41  <Samu> xxxx are the bits used for constructing the industry



22:20:56  <Samu> 1 is appearing there out of something... where does it come from



22:21:06  <Samu> that is the thing I'm looking at the code



22:21:45  <chillcore> fine then stop dragging other stuffs into the mix untill you figure that out



22:22:00  <Samu> i can't really find it, i've wasted this whole day



22:22:06  <Samu> my brain is stuck



22:22:37  <chillcore> If I knew I would have told by now you ...



22:23:00  <chillcore> you now*



22:23:20  <chillcore> damn can't type anymore :P



22:23:59  <Samu> placing a oil rig is by the means of funding it over those canals, which are mine (company 1)



22:24:52  <Samu> what I know that happens is that those 6 tiles are subtracted from the water maintenance counter



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22:25:27  <Samu> at the moment it's placed and starts construction, those 6 canal tiles are no longer mine



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22:26:15  <chillcore> ye because they belong to the industrie now



22:26:17  <Samu> and that's where that 1xxxx comes up, I suppose, but not sure, that it is turning into OWNER_NONE first, then start construction, in a quick two-step



22:26:48  <Samu> but I say OWNER_NONE and I could be wrong, it could be OWNER_WATER, or OWNER_DEITY



22:26:58  <Samu> I am only making an assumtpion, I don't know for sure



22:27:21  <chillcore> then look at the code and find out



22:27:43  <Samu> i did try, but I couldn't find as of yet, how is that done



22:28:28  <Samu> it's in industry_cmd.cpp I'm nearly sure



22:28:36  <Samu> but then eddi tells me it's not there



22:28:43  <Samu> that i am to look for industry tiles



22:28:58  <chillcore> depends ... if I want to check what happens when borrowing money ... I start with "onclick money-button" and take it from there



22:29:32  <Samu> the function is big, glx helped me out a bit, but I can't figure it inside out



22:29:44  <Samu> i think that's what I am supposed to look at



22:29:50  <chillcore> "placing a oil rig is by the means of funding"  your words



22:29:54  <chillcore> start there



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22:30:45  <chillcore> so how do you fund as company?



22:30:56  <chillcore> what button? what gui?



22:31:04  <Samu> i start a single player game



22:31:11  <Samu> press ctrl-alt-c



22:31:37  <Samu> built a few canals on water, about 10x10 size



22:31:37  <glx> Samu: I already said bit 7 is set on industry tile then it's converted to station tile, it's just a leftover and has no importance as it's unused for station tiles



22:31:40  <Samu> then fund oil rig



22:31:44  <chillcore> ye ... go on



22:32:01  <Samu> ctrl-alt-c for money grab



22:32:12  <glx> an unused bit can have any value



22:32:14  <Samu> glx, that is for the station tile



22:32:18  <chillcore> how do you fund the oil rig ... forget the money



22:32:51  <Samu> i want for the industry tile, all industries, all of them, oil rig, coal mine, etc... all them are doing that, it's just that is' much easier to replicate it with canals



22:33:51  <glx> bit 7 is set when the industry is finished



22:34:05  <Samu> i know, i want bit 4, not 7



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22:34:29  <Samu> nnn"X" nnnn at m1



22:34:34  <glx> bit 4 is unused



22:34:38  <Samu> that X there



22:34:53  <Samu> it's being altered



22:35:08  <Samu> it doesn't have a meaning but it's being altered



22:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> we've been trying to explain to you: you can only define "leave this unchanged" when you declare it as "used"



22:35:48  <glx> probably happens when the tile is cleared before becoming an industry tile



22:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise anybody can do whatever he wants with it. including writing to it



22:36:20  <Samu> [22:35] <+glx> probably happens when the tile is cleared before becoming an industry tile



22:36:24  <Samu> :)



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22:36:40  <Samu> ok, must find when does it get cleared



22:36:51  <Samu> where in the code



22:36:55  <glx> I already told you



22:37:03  <Samu> yes but i'm a nab



22:37:13  <Samu> ended up running around



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22:37:41  <glx> it's in DoCreateNewIndustry



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22:37:58  <glx> line 1759



22:40:56  <Samu> wow 			DoCommand(cur_tile, 0, 0, DC_EXEC | DC_NO_TEST_TOWN_RATING | DC_NO_MODIFY_TOWN_RATING, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);



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22:44:24  <Samu> you nailed it



22:46:12  <Samu> right before MakeIndustry, this is it



22:46:20  <Samu> damn, you're smart



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22:53:40  <Samu> thx glx, I will continue this tomorrow, to awake a new tomorrow with a fresh head.



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22:53:50  <Samu> ty



22:53:53  <Samu> cyas all



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22:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't know how much longer i can tolerate this...



22:57:32  <chillcore> it is hard to make him understand something yes



23:02:44  <glx> seems he doesn't read what is said :)



23:03:34  <Wolf01> and he thinks loud :P



23:05:08  <chillcore> I recognise myself somewhat when I was younger ... wanting to know all at once, skipping steps



23:05:28  <chillcore> still I listened when peeps tried to expain something



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23:12:52  <ST2> well, now that the way was pointed to him, he'll be back tomorrow like a kid with a new toy :P



23:13:00  <ST2> and the usual million questions xD



23:13:57  <glx> but I told him yesterday exactly the same thing



23:14:17  <chillcore> ^^^ I'd rather teach him how to fish ...



23:15:35  <ST2> hehe xD



23:16:09  <glx> focus too much on details



23:16:25  <glx> when a larger vision gives the answer



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23:17:07  <Wolf01> 'night



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23:17:21  <glx> everybody told him he looked at the wrong place and should check on upper level



23:21:52  <ST2> but if samu gets any solution that he likes and not implemented in a "snap your fingers" time he gets mad... that worries me :(



23:31:08  <chillcore> some more patience would do him good yes ...



23:31:23  <chillcore> That zip any good to you ST2?



23:31:52  <ST2> haven't looked at it yet



23:32:01  <ST2> very busy with other stuff :S



23:32:39  <ST2> but thanks :)



23:33:04  <chillcore> np. It is all based on old revisions still, if you need some help bumping here and there just ask ;)



23:33:19  <chillcore> but no rush ... got plenty to do too :P



23:42:56  <chillcore> for those liking some heavy beats and ... twitch/Beatport live for 21 hours more



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23:50:22  <supermop> hi



23:51:36  <chillcore> hello



23:52:25  <ST2> hi



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