IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-01-16
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08:12:10 <TheGhostHybrid> Hello! I'm having trouble with my mouse cursor and couldn't find a matching bug report.
08:14:22 <TheGhostHybrid> When I first installed it, it was fine. It was only after going into the settings menu and putting the game in fullscreen mode that I can no longer see the cursor or click on anything.
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09:45:40 <planetmaker> omg! It all will be covered in slime! e-very-thing!
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09:51:17 <krinn> hi guys, got a question about power and TE, anyone in mood to get bugged?
09:52:27 <peter1138> As always, don't ask if you can ask...
09:53:45 <krinn> ok then, how do you find out "when" you need an extra engine (the redline where the vehicle couldn't handle it anymore with only 1 engine and goes slow while climbing)
09:54:10 <V453000> just by observing and seeing if the engine accelerates too poorly or not
09:54:17 <V453000> you will get the hang of it over time
09:55:36 <krinn> i have put the two formula to get power and TE, but this doesn't seems related at all, a too weak engine still manage to climb, until i raise it to some huge amount of diff between maxTE of engine and actual TE need)
09:57:54 <krinn> V453000, got it now why i ask to ask for this before :)
10:28:06 <krinn> it "had" help a lot, i got all the formulas from there
10:28:51 <krinn> but it doesn't gave clue how to find the redline, until better, i pick choice to calc engine power need at a low speed while climbing (15% maxspeed of engine)
10:29:07 <peter1138> Where does the magic 0.35 value come from?
10:29:07 <krinn> and if i cannot reach it, add another engine
10:30:14 <planetmaker> peter1138, that's the friction of steel on steel
10:30:25 <peter1138> Argh, double click to edit... annoying when I want to just select text.
10:31:27 <peter1138> krinn, no, 0.35. Shows you read the whole page I guess...
10:32:24 <krinn> lol ok but 0.35µ is 35N :)
10:41:37 <peter1138> 0.35µ doesn't make any sense.
10:42:10 <peter1138> µ = 0.35 is an assignment.
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11:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> steel-on-steel is actually more like 0.15, 0.35 probably assumes sand and stuff
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13:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: that's... unfortunate
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14:06:27 <Xaroth|Work> __ln___: so about just as bad as eve's boot.ini issue :P
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16:00:37 <NGC3982> 16:55 < NGCthree`> *** Ojamae has left the game (received invalid or unexpected packet)
16:00:55 <NGC3982> This just happend on a player on my server. Do i need to attend to this?
16:01:35 <Jinassi> I just had a player conjure 5,5million pounds out of thin air
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16:03:50 <peter1138> Wrong, the decimal separator is . not ,
16:04:41 <Rubidium> peter1138: it'll just make excel think you meant 5500 million
16:05:16 <NGC3982> Jinassi: Do you mean the player cheated?
16:05:24 <NGC3982> In a multiplayer game? :3
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16:08:36 <Jinassi> NGC3982: yep, no logs of any donation or sales of vehicles or subsidies or railway removal.
16:15:04 <Jinassi> Player then bought vehicles(mostly planes), which then promptly bankrupted said company, since maintenance was exceptionally higher than profit(full load orders, no slot left to unload)
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16:24:20 <Taede> when you say no logs, which logs are you looking into?
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16:30:36 <peter1138> Can you log everything via admin port or somesuch?
16:30:55 <Taede> server1 uses soap, and should log most
16:31:41 <Taede> though these graphs look like they are generated from different logs
16:32:50 <Jinassi> am not able to provide fully detailed logs at the moment. These "magic logs" is all I can link at the moment.
16:33:07 <peter1138> Are you calling that graph a log?
16:33:33 <peter1138> (Cos that graph doesn't show anything about a 5.5 million quantitive easing)
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19:14:19 <andythenorth> I should fix my build though
19:14:25 <andythenorth> currently using the version from bananas ;P
19:14:59 <andythenorth> I don’t know if I can face debugging my local build tonight though :P
19:15:07 <andythenorth> too many days of sleep at midnight, get up at 6am
19:16:22 <Alberth> or do you have local changes?\
19:17:11 <Samu> Have you heard of Raptr or AMD Gaming Evolved App?
19:18:26 <Samu> It's a program that optimize games settings for your hardware, kinda like nvidia shadowplay. but the reason I come here is about a crash
19:18:29 <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ve pulled tip, but makefile is borked for me
19:18:59 <Alberth> oh dear, what does it say?
19:19:42 <andythenorth> I don’t know if I want the pain of digging into that tonight :)
19:19:55 <andythenorth> I have to analyse about 500 booking records for a design :P
19:20:17 <Alberth> without hg, I hope :)
19:20:17 <Samu> When I exit Raptr while a game is running (such as OpenTTD), I get a warning from Raptr saying that it could potentially crash the game.
19:20:28 <Samu> And indeed it crashed OpenTTD
19:20:34 <andythenorth> my hg is fine ;)
19:20:40 <andythenorth> subprocess can’t find
19:21:26 <Alberth> I may have killed PATH or so, to fix some other hg problem
19:22:04 <Alberth> Samu: report what? "I used random 3rd party software and it is broken?"
19:22:26 <Alberth> ie how can openttd fix problems in raptor or whatever it is called?
19:22:49 <Samu> it delivered a crash report
19:23:25 <Alberth> of course it did, it always does
19:24:26 <Alberth> but you raptor thingie warned you it might happen. Best solution imho is not use this raptor thing, or don't exit it while openttd is running
19:25:21 <Rubidium> a windows crash dump might be interesting to see, just to get a clue what is happening for the next guy that comes up with this issue (or just dumps something on the bug tracker)
19:25:53 <Alberth> Samu: ^ there's your permission to upload the crash
19:26:30 <Samu> okay, I'm also interested to know what's wrong with it
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19:29:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: to verify python3 check_lang_compatibility.py lang/english.txt info.nut is broken?
19:30:43 <andythenorth> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'hg'
19:34:18 <andythenorth> better make something to eat while I wait :P
19:34:21 <andythenorth> I should test new nmlc
19:40:43 <Samu> strange, I cant seem to post
19:41:24 <Samu> trying to create the task, and nothing happens
19:43:36 <glx> <Samu> It's a program that optimize games settings for your hardware, kinda like nvidia shadowplay. but the reason I come here is about a crash <-- it's not shadowplay it's geforce experience
19:44:00 <glx> shadowplay is for streaming
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19:45:15 <Samu> Could I upload to somewhere else and someone post on my behalf to Flyspray?
19:47:42 <Samu> i still have 2 screenshots
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19:49:37 <Samu> ok, screenshots also posted there as comments
19:50:52 <glx> [00] ??? 0x000007FEDC697940
19:50:52 <glx> [01] openttd 0x00000001401EFEAC
19:51:11 <glx> the huge address change is weird
19:51:12 <Alberth> interesting, how does it end up with "undle" ?
19:51:23 <frosch123> "b" is the "branch" command
19:51:31 <frosch123> it takes the filename as part of the sed script
19:51:42 <frosch123> i guess andy should get a better os
19:51:49 <frosch123> with a less hillariously broken sed
19:53:16 <krinn> don't os/x should use bsd sed instead of gnu/sed?
19:53:41 <krinn> that's the problem me think
19:55:07 <frosch123> when would bsd sed expect a filename then?
19:55:17 <andythenorth> can’t get the patch to apply
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19:56:04 <Alberth> -i always takes an argument with bsd sed, so -i -> -i ''
19:57:16 <frosch123> oh, does -i take the filename?
19:57:37 <Alberth> no, an extension to use for the backup file
19:58:28 <Alberth> -I is also interesting, no idea how you'd use that :p
19:59:19 <krinn> howabout some <sed 's/this/that' infile.txt > outputfile.txt for bsdsed?
19:59:48 <andythenorth> bloody makefile editing :)
19:59:52 <andythenorth> I have to entab all my spaces
19:59:56 <andythenorth> I think it’s worked
20:00:08 <Alberth> hmm, -i '' fails here :p
20:00:14 <alluke> ogfx+ industries seems to be fucked
20:00:23 <alluke> i can get sawmill to appear on the industry list
20:00:28 <frosch123> Alberth: hmm, gnu sed has "-s", which looks like "-I" is the default
20:00:58 <frosch123> didn't know considering them one file was even an option :p
20:01:40 <Alberth> alluke: in tropical you have to fund the sawmill
20:02:01 <andythenorth> dbg: [misc] [Squirrel] Compile error: Error /Users/andy/Documents/OpenTTD/game/busy-bee-gs/info.nut:23/32: end of statement expected (; or lf)
20:02:04 <alluke> paper mill appears on the list if i select it
20:02:14 <alluke> and i can get factory to accept it too
20:02:15 <frosch123> there is a setting for the wood chain
20:02:51 <alluke> thats what im plying with
20:04:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: yep, you have to use an build version
20:04:40 * andythenorth is figuring out how GS is installed
20:05:39 <peter1138> Reverse it into the garage.
20:06:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: add a symlink from the game folder obove to the bundle dir in your checkout
20:07:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks
20:07:15 <andythenorth> I am trying to cirumvent savegame min version right now :P
20:07:18 <andythenorth> don’t ask why :P
20:08:35 <krinn> andythenorth, function MinVersionToLoad() { return 1; } and you're good to go
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20:09:48 <Rubidium> Samu: the stack trace in the dump file looks really weird
20:09:51 <frosch123> 439 mib to download :) V is screwing the "download it all" people in a very custom fashion :p
20:11:16 <Alberth> alluke: final shot at least looks wrong, so yeah, please report in ogfx+industries (include the save game too)
20:11:37 <alluke> ill quickly test it with fresh game
20:12:03 <Samu> stack trace? eh... not sure what it is. Raptr keeps track of my total gaming time for OpenTTD. I'm not sure what else it can do.
20:12:51 <Rubidium> Samu: it's basically a list of functions that is being run at the moment of the crash
20:13:10 <frosch123> Samu: the "stacktrace" are the 4kB that are useful information from the 6.72 MB .dmp you uploaded :)
20:13:26 <andythenorth> patch failed, /me too sleepy to figure out :P
20:13:51 <andythenorth> what am I supposed to understand from the .rej file?
20:13:58 <andythenorth> it’s just *** codes and line numbers
20:14:20 <Alberth> it contains the rejected hunks
20:14:36 <alluke> everything works in fresh game
20:14:42 <alluke> gotta try to play with the grfs
20:15:05 <andythenorth> so debugging failed hunks is a guessing game?
20:15:33 <Alberth> the old text didn't match
20:16:32 <Alberth> to get the cause you need to check how your hunk differs with the 'old' part of the rejected hunk
20:16:42 <Alberth> usually it's not worth the trouble :)
20:18:19 <andythenorth> sed: 1: "bundle/BusyBee-v5494M-h ...": undefined label 'undle/BusyBee-v5494M-h4a46f566a8bb/info.nut'
20:18:27 <andythenorth> trying to find the missing ‘b'
20:18:40 <Alberth> the -i ate it, I think
20:19:52 <andythenorth> ok appears to work
20:20:11 <andythenorth> it was my stupid editor, it has a bad habit of silently switching to .orig files when selecting a file to edit
20:20:15 <andythenorth> so changes go missing
20:20:44 <Alberth> and the check_lang_compatibility problem?
20:22:56 <andythenorth> it’s compiled and appears in my game
20:23:08 <andythenorth> now I just want to trick the compatibility to match my savegame :P
20:26:04 <krinn> andythenorth, just gave you upper howto
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20:26:41 <andythenorth> because I can’t build without the makefile
20:27:01 <andythenorth> and the makefile appears to set the version
20:27:53 <andythenorth> Alberth: in any case, it builds and appears in menu
20:28:07 <Alberth> function MinVersionToLoad() { return 1; } as krrinn said
20:28:15 <andythenorth> and I have the last full paste you gave afaict
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20:28:47 <Alberth> ok, trying to fix the bananas upload thingie too, but it's tricky :)
20:28:57 <andythenorth> well the compiled bundle has MINCOMPATIBLE_SAVEGAME_VERSION <- 1
20:29:05 <andythenorth> which is the version my savegame says it wants
20:29:33 <Alberth> makefile works around it already :p
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20:32:33 <Alberth> :o 3 new languages :)
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20:38:35 <glx> <@Rubidium> oh, raptr seems to also crash Chrome upon exit with roughtly the same exception offset (given ASLR it might be the same): http://raptr.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37436 <-- yup very similar, like a dll brutally removed and no longer listed in module information
20:40:17 <glx> I guess these tools hook themself in running programs but don't unhook properly on exit
20:41:56 <Zuu> Alberth: You got one more language waiting for next sync. :-)
20:45:27 <Alberth> andythenorth: version = v5493-hde8b1dc14ad3 <-- that ok as development version for bananas?
20:45:35 <andythenorth> herp, no idea :)
20:46:22 <Alberth> technically just the hash would be enough, but the day may be nice too
20:46:42 <Alberth> as it provides an increasing number
20:48:29 <Alberth> let's keep it this way for a while :)
20:51:15 <andythenorth> I set everything in info.nut to ‘1’ :P
20:51:15 <andythenorth> The savegame has an GameScript by the name 'BusyBee', version 1 which is no longer available
20:52:31 <Alberth> maybe you have another version with a higher number somewhere?
20:53:22 <Alberth> maybe your downloaded version?
20:53:34 <krinn> i think it bork the script itself, with higher version it should just load higher version, the message tells it cannot find any busybee gs
20:54:10 <andythenorth> I’ve binned the downloaded version
20:54:44 <andythenorth> version reported in ottd UI is 100001
20:54:46 <krinn> andythenorth, my guess would be: gs directory inside the tar or unpack should be of "busybee.version"
20:55:39 <Alberth> return PROGRAM_VERSION + SAVEGAME_VERSION * 100000; :)
20:57:09 <Alberth> pushed bananas version fix
20:57:26 <krinn> happy new years everyone (lol yeah, i'm late, just remember it)
20:58:16 <andythenorth> hmm well everything is now 1 :)
20:58:20 <andythenorth> but my savegame hates it
20:58:30 <andythenorth> this is probably not supported behaviour :)
21:00:12 <krinn> with minversintoload set to 1 it should load any savegame
21:00:43 <krinn> if it cann't, it might be some other things is going on (like api set higher than openttd api version)
21:02:24 <krinn> i saw in vehicle details windows it shown me TE for the vehicle, but not anymore? do it output it only with multihead train?
21:02:49 <andythenorth> ho ho, well v59 of Busy Bee works :)
21:03:21 <Zuu> Lol, looking up "fibre crop farm" on google image search in order to translate it, and the first hit is from FIRS :-p
21:03:45 <andythenorth> krinn: TE is there for me with Iron Horse, not with PIPE
21:04:02 <andythenorth> probably some newgrf handling
21:04:23 <andythenorth> Zuu: it’s a made up term afaict
21:04:32 <krinn> i use the same savegame, so no chnage to newgrf
21:04:46 <andythenorth> which newgrf(s) do you have?
21:04:54 <andythenorth> I think it depends what props they set, or it’s a railtype thing
21:05:11 <krinn> opengfx industry only now
21:07:06 <krinn> ah got it! only display when acceleration model is swap
21:18:42 * andythenorth adds cheats to ‘Full FIRS'
21:19:15 <krinn> what realistic acc model change? with it, train climb the hill easy, with original it get down to its knees while trying
21:19:40 <frosch123> with default all trains perform the same on hills
21:19:46 <Zuu> In realistic curves impact more than in original. IIRC
21:19:49 <frosch123> with realistic there are actually differences
21:20:55 <krinn> it looks like it change TE need is twice when original acc is use
21:21:16 <frosch123> huh? original acc does not know te
21:22:05 <krinn> i don't know then, it just cannot climb the hill with it, the very same train just swapping the acc model
21:24:16 <frosch123> iirc no trains can climb any hills with original acc
21:25:20 <glx> there's a work around to get a minimal speed iirc
21:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> any hill tile instantly reduces train speed on original
21:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter the train or the power
21:26:31 <glx> krinn: the code manage to get a speed of 1km/h or something in case the acceleration is too low
21:26:35 <frosch123> not instantly, just exponentially fast or so :p
21:27:38 <krinn> frosch123, maybe, but how then should i guess what speed i would get?
21:27:55 <frosch123> with original, just assume 1
21:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> just don't use original.
21:28:19 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, it's not something i could handle myself :)
21:28:41 <frosch123> hmm, "original" is still the default value, isn't it? :p
21:28:47 <andythenorth> well Full FIRS is about to get rebalanced massively for 1.4.0
21:28:52 <andythenorth> where is V453000?
21:29:08 <frosch123> drinking beer most likely
21:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, $someone was against changing it waaaay back when i suggested all the other default changes
21:29:55 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, you mean, noway, with original acc mode, just add extra engine blindly?
21:29:56 <Zuu> krinn: do people ask about original accelaration model for AIs? Otherwise, you could also try to disable build_on_slopes and get another challenge in making your AI compatible to that too.
21:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: don't build hills with original. ever.
21:31:00 <krinn> Zuu: didn't wonder it would be as critical as build_on_slopes settings
21:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> build on slopes just makes the game horrible.
21:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> disabling, i mean
21:33:12 <krinn> for human player it is aweful so an ai expecting it on is not challenging setting that much, but original acc model is diff, i always have it enable until i start testing stuff right now
21:37:02 <andythenorth> I spent fricking ages designing FIRS to avoid short-cutting cargo chains
21:37:18 <andythenorth> but when I actually tried it, it’s fun
21:37:40 <andythenorth> Full FIRS now has ports and bulk terminals
21:37:53 <andythenorth> deliver [otherwise neglected cargoes], get supplies out
21:40:14 <andythenorth> faster faster faster compile :P
21:40:20 * andythenorth had better try new nmlc soon
21:41:12 <krinn> showing age andythenorth when you start repeat yourself :)
21:41:35 <andythenorth> showing lack of sleep
21:41:41 <andythenorth> also words I lose
21:42:13 * krinn thinks "showing lack of sleep" should be top excuse to "aging"
21:46:56 <andythenorth> 51 industries in Full FIRS
21:46:59 <andythenorth> must be enough, right?
21:47:07 <andythenorth> or I should put power plant back? o_O
21:47:34 <andythenorth> I am out of cargoes, otherwise I’d just add ‘Electricity’ cargo, with pylon trains
21:48:19 <andythenorth> ho ho, actually one is spare, sugar beet / sugarcane never appear together
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