IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2015-01-06
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11:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> only if it stops beyond the launch window
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12:08:09 <LadyHawk> i'm ok, headache but it'll fade
12:08:34 <LadyHawk> coffee is in the coffee machine =)
12:08:36 <dreck> hope you get better soon :-s
12:08:40 <dreck> and I'm doing ok for now
12:10:49 <alluke> didnt sleep at all last night
12:12:55 <LadyHawk> over the holiday period i was sleeping from 2am-2pm
12:13:31 * LadyHawk is apparently a pussy
12:14:19 <peter1138> Coffee in the machine is in the wrong place :-)
12:15:49 <LadyHawk> it's in my cup sitting next to me now
12:18:28 <alluke> i stay awake with the magic of coffee
12:18:54 <alluke> hopefully the coffee lasts till 21 00
12:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a holiday...
12:19:21 <LadyHawk> when i'm at home i dont tend to drink coffee after like 8pm
12:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't have a coffee addiction anyway
12:19:30 <LadyHawk> feels wrong to go to bed buzzing on coffee =P
12:19:41 <alluke> got my new licence yesterday
12:22:10 <LadyHawk> those codes are very different from mine
12:22:25 <LadyHawk> i dunno what they mean =)
12:22:43 <alluke> those should be in use in whole europe afaik
12:23:11 <LadyHawk> they may just not be on mine.. older licences here have a wishlist of codes on them but the newer card licences only have a few
12:24:02 <alluke> what the hell are those
12:24:10 <LadyHawk> that's what i thought looking at yours
12:24:30 <LadyHawk> b1 vans & people carriers up to 6 i think
12:25:08 <alluke> c1e light truck and trailer
12:25:30 * dreck has class 1, 3, 4B, 5, and 6D in name of quebec :)
12:25:46 <LadyHawk> that's a seperate test here that's quite pricey
12:25:55 <LadyHawk> to get those codes on the licence
12:25:59 <alluke> i got those all for free
12:27:18 <LadyHawk> if i had had an older licence i would also be able to drive tracktors and weird things like that
12:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, usually you get the company you work for to pay for the C license
12:27:59 <alluke> i got my licences from army where i served for year
12:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: any particular reason for not CE?
12:28:14 <alluke> in civil world theyd cost many tons
12:28:26 <alluke> only the best ones were chosen to CE course
12:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, if you have an army license, you can get the test cheaper
12:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, you can skip most of the expensive lessons
12:29:33 <alluke> oh how i miss the army trucks
12:29:51 * peter1138 has B, BE, C1, C1E, D1 and D1E. And fklnp.
12:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> don't you have to renew the bus and truck licenses like every 5 years?
12:30:52 <alluke> the card expires in 2019
12:31:34 <peter1138> No. C1 is only up to 7500 kg.
12:31:54 <peter1138> D1 is only a minibus.
12:32:14 <alluke> what was the max seats for d1
12:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but transporting more than 8 people commercially...
12:32:49 <peter1138> For full truck and bus, yeah, they need renewal, I'm sure.
12:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i have only B (and ML, which is mopeds and agricultural vehicles)
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12:33:30 <peter1138> code 101 - not for hire or reward
12:33:38 <alluke> i want to buy a bus and turn it into a c-licence camper / bar / strip club
12:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> with C you can drive a bus, it may just not have more than 8 passengers at a time
12:34:19 <alluke> the wise people in eu changed that
12:34:34 <peter1138> Large vehicles is C.
12:34:35 <planetmaker> I probably would get B, BE, C1 and C1E would I apply to get my license re-written
12:34:39 <alluke> you cant drive even empty bus anymore with c
12:35:05 <alluke> unless you screw the seats off
12:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you still have 3?
12:35:17 <alluke> and register it into a truck
12:35:42 <peter1138> Cat D is 8 passenger seats, not passengers.
12:35:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes
12:35:59 <planetmaker> the pinkish license
12:36:13 <V453000> planetmaker: which license letter is for planets? :P
12:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they were already phased out when i was old enough
12:36:33 <peter1138> I got my license just a few months before they stopped adding on so many categories by default.
12:36:43 <alluke> which licence is for unicorns
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12:37:14 <planetmaker> my license is from 1994... so yeah, old git :P
12:37:35 <peter1138> 94... didn't realise you were that old
12:37:57 <V453000> he is ten times older than you might ever imagine
12:38:44 <alluke> back in 94 i was sucking tits
12:38:52 <planetmaker> not quite beluga-ish :P
12:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only 6 years older than mine
12:40:00 <LadyHawk> with a 'wtf' story attached to it
12:41:19 <LadyHawk> got it just before christmas, lessons with the AA, 'almost ready' since march but refused to give me a mock test, went on went on.. bf went mad, suddenly the AA had no driving instructors in my area.. went to a different driving school which gave me 2 free hours to see how far i was
12:41:32 <LadyHawk> and i was told... why haven't you done ur test yet.. so i took the test
12:42:50 <LadyHawk> apparently, since driving instructors are self employed, they want to try and 'stretch' your lessons on till after the holidays so they got some money
12:42:59 <alluke> drifting trucks is one of the best things you can do with your pants on
12:43:06 <LadyHawk> big places like the AA may seem great, but apparently, not
12:44:29 <LadyHawk> i'd like to learn how to drift one day
12:44:51 <alluke> just floor it in curve and countersteer if neessary
12:45:08 <alluke> worked with 4wd lr defender too
12:45:15 <LadyHawk> the AA is a very big company that sorts out driving lessons/road side breakdown/insurrance/whole heap more
12:45:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, possibly the automobile association?
12:45:45 <LadyHawk> so how do you drive in a front wheel drive
12:45:56 <LadyHawk> that weighs as much as a balloon?
12:46:26 <alluke> but watch tiff needels videos in youtube
12:46:29 <LadyHawk> full lock and slam the accelerator doesn't work
12:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> a balloon doesn't weigh anything, hence it floats...
12:46:41 <LadyHawk> just get massive understeer
12:47:02 <LadyHawk> assuming you can get the wheels to stop spinning anyway
12:47:27 <alluke> and surprise your friends next time theyll ride in your car
12:47:39 <LadyHawk> OMG ford puma? i drive that haha
12:49:49 <peter1138> Heh, the handbrake turn... not gonna work.
12:50:08 <peter1138> Cos my handbrake works on the front ;p
12:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i never felt the need to try out these things
12:51:19 <peter1138> Pretty stupid stuff to do on public roads.
12:51:32 <alluke> wtf is the point for that
12:51:49 <alluke> gear locks the front wheels
12:53:36 <peter1138> It allows the handbrake to be used as an emergency brake.
12:53:42 <LadyHawk> that guy in that video just said if u try to drift you 'get nothing but understeer, understeer and more boring understeer' then he sais 'so u gotta do it like this!' haha
12:53:57 <peter1138> That's not "that guy"
12:53:58 <LadyHawk> understeer, yes noticed
12:54:11 <peter1138> That's Tiff Needell.
12:54:12 <LadyHawk> understeer even in roundabouts
12:57:08 <peter1138> Was a Top Gear presenter.
12:57:13 <peter1138> And a racing driver.
12:57:44 <LadyHawk> only ever seen those 3 numpties, never him
12:58:00 <peter1138> Proper Top Gear, not Jemery Clarkson's Comedy Show.
12:58:20 <LadyHawk> then i dont watch top gear =)
12:58:30 <peter1138> (Jeremy was in the original Top Gear, mind you.
13:00:39 <alluke> my library got its 200th song yesterday
13:00:45 <peter1138> Okay, they had some weird clips...
13:02:05 <LadyHawk> haha he's so young there, never seen him like that XD
13:02:07 <peter1138> Looking very young.
13:02:23 <alluke> today they all have grey hair
13:13:44 <peter1138> For an old crappy Ford? :s
13:14:06 <alluke> aint she pretty little thing?
13:20:44 <LadyHawk> that's the kinda car i want
13:20:59 <LadyHawk> but a second gen toyota mr2 manual will do, too
13:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a ford escort the past 2 years
13:23:32 <LadyHawk> i tend to drive with the heater on full at my feet, with the windows open slightly
13:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> now i have a golf... my cars seem to get older in every incarnation
13:26:10 <LadyHawk> this ford puma i drive is my 2nd car
13:26:23 <LadyHawk> my first car was a ford mondeo mark 1.. the only mondeo that had 4wd
13:26:41 <LadyHawk> made snowdriving seem so easy
13:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf do you need 4wd for?
13:26:57 <LadyHawk> nobody believed me when i said it was a 4wd
13:27:07 <LadyHawk> till the scrap note confirmed it was a mark1
13:27:32 <LadyHawk> the car was £100 when i bought it
13:27:59 <LadyHawk> i wasn't complaining
13:28:04 <LadyHawk> was a good condition too
13:28:59 <LadyHawk> the car started falling apart, the cooling pipes, exhaust, etc.. but the engine, the heart of that car baffled any engineer working on it & mot testers alike cuz of its good condition
13:29:41 <LadyHawk> didn't realise when i bought it that it was 4wd, till i did research on it afterwards
13:30:05 <LadyHawk> i figured it was front wheel drive like the rest of the mondeos
13:30:23 <alluke> why the fuck did you scrap 4wd mondeo??????
13:30:39 <LadyHawk> because a jack went through the back window, the bonnet and the boot
13:30:52 <LadyHawk> and the side window but that didn't break
13:31:16 <LadyHawk> i never wanted to scrap it
13:31:41 <alluke> did it drift well on snow
13:32:21 <LadyHawk> snow driving was insanely easy, my drive is on a big slope, that car was the only one to be able to get up there easily, while most, can't get up at all
13:32:23 <alluke> thats what you buy r/4wd car for
13:33:22 <LadyHawk> i can get a front whee ldrive up there, after a few attempts with a runup
13:33:40 <LadyHawk> i gtg to shop & get ready for work
13:34:37 <LadyHawk> on the bright side though
13:34:41 <LadyHawk> i got £250 for scrapping it
13:35:10 <alluke> the parts alone are worth more
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17:43:37 <NGC3982> That link crached IE for me. :()
17:45:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27114 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-01-06 17:45:49 UTC)
17:45:59 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:00 <DorpsGek> catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
17:46:01 <DorpsGek> danish - 2 changes by Gankenstein
17:46:02 <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by juanjo
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18:06:27 <planetmaker> yet another programming language for newgrfs?
18:07:53 <andythenorth> it’s not miles away from how I do FIRS
18:08:01 <Alberth> every run gives a unique newgrf? :)
18:08:13 <Elyon> the library seeds the rng
18:12:08 <frosch123> Elyon: i guess if you use nml.OutputGRF and derive some new class from nml.actions.BaseAction you can use the nml grf encoder
18:12:15 <frosch123> including sprite cache and stuff
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18:12:40 <Elyon> frosch123: oh that's an interesting idea
18:13:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: configurable goal timeout length
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18:13:44 <Elyon> frosch123: so I just get nml source and dig in?
18:13:48 * andythenorth needs to get back onto ottd stuff
18:13:56 <andythenorth> I shipped some grfs and then stopped for a bit :P
18:14:19 <andythenorth> tax return less so
18:14:35 <Alberth> hmm, sounds useful to spend time on :)
18:14:57 <Alberth> depending on howm "return" you get
18:16:17 <frosch123> Elyon: i guess you can take main.py and remove everything that deals with the nml syntax. i guess starting from line 281 you can reuse stuff
18:17:10 <frosch123> at that point there is a list of actions
18:17:18 <Elyon> I'll definitely look into it
18:17:19 <frosch123> you probably need to reuse RealSpriteAction
18:17:33 <frosch123> but for the pseudo sprites you can likely just create a new derived class
18:17:43 <Elyon> frosch123: thanks a lot for the insights
18:22:20 <andythenorth> wow, over a year since last FIRS update
18:22:24 <andythenorth> where did that time go?
18:22:29 <andythenorth> and nothing planned on FIRS either
18:22:34 <andythenorth> that set is dead maybe?
18:24:48 <andythenorth> ‘no longer of interest to its authors’
18:28:07 <Alberth> yeti is the new kid on the block
18:30:21 <andythenorth> maybe it’s a competition :)
18:31:15 <Alberth> who's best in 5 randomly selected categories?
18:32:28 <andythenorth> dunno, I never saw industry sets as a competition
18:32:31 <andythenorth> maybe I should :P
18:36:32 <Alberth> write a game script for coding goals?
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18:46:37 <Alberth> where would be the challenge, otherwise? :)
19:11:18 * andythenorth could use a bit less of that kind of challenge :P
19:11:26 * andythenorth makes a lot of mistakes
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20:55:54 <Elyon> so yeah, working my way through repurposing the nml module for my own diabolical ends
20:56:11 <Elyon> there's a lot of strictness involved compared to my little thingie :p
20:56:27 <Elyon> I have to write `expression.ConstantNumeric(0)`
20:56:53 <frosch123> yeah, every expression has a Position assigned
20:57:17 <Elyon> a bit unwieldy, but the GRF developer needs not know of these anyway
20:58:12 <Elyon> makes sense, really. I find an often-occurring proportionality between framework 'ease-of-use', and framework complexity
20:59:34 <Elyon> also, while I've been developing with ruby for a good 6 years, python doesn't seem too bad
20:59:40 <Elyon> except regex syntax, yuck
21:00:00 <frosch123> aren't all regex pcre these days?
21:00:05 <frosch123> does ruby do something else?
21:00:17 <Elyon> ruby has regex as a built-in type
21:01:26 <Elyon> '0xdeadbeef'.match(/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/)[1] => 'deadbeef'
21:01:42 <V453000> XD that line makes me shiver
21:02:07 <frosch123> that's not too different to python, is it?
21:02:21 <Elyon> does python support the // syntax?
21:02:34 <Elyon> /<regex>/<config> I mean?
21:03:53 <V453000> idk, when I see the various unreadable characters it just creates some strange laughter inside :D
21:03:59 <frosch123> re.match('0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)', '0xdeadbeef')[0]
21:04:18 <frosch123> no, python uses classes instead of special operators
21:04:29 <frosch123> it already has 3 levels of generic string quotations
21:04:36 <frosch123> no need for another / quotation mark
21:04:39 <Elyon> it's not an operator, it's a delimiter
21:04:48 <Elyon> and regexes aren't strings
21:05:00 <Elyon> imho I like how ruby/js has regex as a builtin
21:05:41 <frosch123> your line from above does look the same to me as in python
21:05:50 <frosch123> just the order of pattern and string are swapped
21:06:02 <frosch123> and python uses string quotation instead of a special /
21:06:08 <Elyon> match "\dx" for me then :p
21:06:30 <Elyon> nah, it gets unwieldy with escapes when regexes are strings imho
21:06:48 <frosch123> python has 3 different quotation marks to choose from
21:06:56 <frosch123> that's way easier than /
21:08:00 <frosch123> esp. with the triple """ marks you never run into any escape issues
21:08:04 <Elyon> I prefer /<re>/<cfg>, but that may just be my penchant for vim that does it
21:08:13 <Elyon> hmm that's true actually.
21:08:44 <frosch123> when using sed or awk in scripts you can always pick a custom escape character, but with inserting shell variables it always fails in some case :p
21:09:03 <Elyon> I don't see how any of them are easier than `/` though. anything delimited by two `/` is inherently a regex, whereas in python you have to be explicit with the re module
21:09:37 <Elyon> besides, ruby obv. has a Regex class you can use if for some arcane reason the delimiters don't match your issue solving
21:09:58 <Elyon> I'm not saying `/` is easier, just that I don't find """ easier than `/`
21:10:01 <frosch123> well, i don't know about ruby syntax, but it looks to me like "match" is a method of the string class
21:10:05 <Elyon> or " or ' for that matter
21:10:26 <Elyon> wait I may have put it down wrong, lemme see what I wrote
21:10:51 <Elyon> yeah it's the other way around, my mistake
21:10:57 <Elyon> anyway, syntactic sugar abound:
21:10:57 <andythenorth> ugh, passing shell vars from python reliably
21:11:06 * andythenorth got smacked by that recently
21:11:19 <Elyon> '0xdeadbeef'[/0x([0-9A-Fa-f][0-9A-Fa-f]*)/][1] => 'deadbeef'
21:12:00 <frosch123> oh, a regular expression for the [] operator?
21:12:06 <Elyon> I'm not bashing python by the way, I just like the conciseness of ruby's regex syntax. Ruby has nothing on python's list comprehension
21:12:28 <Elyon> abstract 'indexing' into a string with a regex :3
21:12:38 <frosch123> don't worry, every language for it's purpose
21:13:02 <Elyon> I must admit the lack of 'switch' was one of the reasons I haven't gotten around to python until just now
21:13:15 <frosch123> i like knowing 20+ languages, and choosing one for each task
21:13:19 <Elyon> but it's okay, if/elif is more powerful anyway
21:13:27 <Elyon> I don't know how many I know
21:13:29 <andythenorth> you’ll get by without switch :)
21:13:35 <Elyon> probably only 7-8 really well
21:13:36 * andythenorth doesn’t know a single language :(
21:13:47 <frosch123> oh, python does not have switch? ... i haven't even noticed that :p
21:13:54 <frosch123> i guess i did not need it for some reason
21:14:06 <Elyon> it's syntactic sugar in highlevel languages anyway
21:14:25 <Elyon> and if you're lacking performance then what are you doing with an interpreted language anyway :p
21:16:17 <Elyon> I just like the `case year; when (1900..2000): puts 'lol last millenium'; else puts 'THE FUTURE IS NOW (or 115 years ago)'; end
21:16:29 <Elyon> that looks hideous as a oneliner
21:17:18 <Elyon> long story short: python is treating me nicely, and I'm not a fangirl
21:17:21 <andythenorth> use the ‘weird’ python ternary ope in that case :)
21:17:28 <andythenorth> for switching two things
21:17:32 <Elyon> although I still kind of dread the 'pythonic' term or w/e
21:17:46 <Elyon> I didn't think python had ?:
21:17:49 <frosch123> yeah, the ternery in python is insane
21:17:55 <andythenorth> I love the python ternary
21:17:58 <frosch123> Elyon: exaclty it does not have ? :
21:18:00 <andythenorth> it works like my brain
21:18:03 <frosch123> it has something silly
21:18:05 * andythenorth is not a programmer
21:18:18 * andythenorth is probably only two steps away from ‘someone who would like perl'
21:18:23 <andythenorth> although I read a perl script once
21:18:30 <frosch123> "condition ? a : b" in various languages -> "a if condition else b" in python
21:18:39 <frosch123> i.e. the condition is between the choices :/
21:18:53 <Elyon> I've used that syntax in list comprehensions without realising it worked in general
21:18:59 <andythenorth> that’s how my brain works
21:19:21 <andythenorth> we used to use something which is considered hideous apparently
21:19:27 <andythenorth> (a, b)[condition]
21:19:34 <andythenorth> which is neat and terse
21:19:37 <Elyon> considering it's evaluated strictly `condition -> select(a, b)`, that syntax is oddpants
21:20:00 <Elyon> `cond ? a : b` is pretty logical as well, I find
21:20:09 <Elyon> it's basically just `if cond then a else b`
21:20:26 <andythenorth> the tuple thing has caused some other people ‘wtf’ when I write it
21:20:58 <Elyon> lacking in ruby as well
21:21:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: as 'wtf' as when i see something writing "condition == true" ?
21:21:58 <frosch123> oh, true, that is also popular :)
21:22:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: that’s usually just a sign of someone who can’t let go of the way from other languages :)
21:22:19 <andythenorth> took me a couple of years to trust that True really is true
21:22:33 <Elyon> or someone who has taken the `intro to programming` course and is ready to conquer the world
21:22:36 <andythenorth> age, experience, application of common sense
21:22:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: the problem is C :p where true is not necessary true
21:22:58 <Elyon> although in fairness, I wrote a program 15 years ago that put 100 empty files on the desktop. It was 100 lines long
21:23:07 <frosch123> if true is != 0, then there can be multiple trues
21:23:26 <Elyon> well most things in c are true
21:23:34 <Elyon> if you include <bool.h> anyway
21:23:40 <Elyon> else no things are true
21:24:08 <Elyon> they evaluate to true if used as conditions, but won't compare to `true`
21:26:48 <Elyon> anyway, on with the nml
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