IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-28
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00:58:05 *** Hazzard is now known as BiG_FISHBOT
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05:56:23 <Flygon> Dumb question: Has 'diagonal' railway platforms ever been discussed?
06:43:09 <Supercheese> Yep, there is oooooooold patch for it
06:43:34 <Supercheese> dunno if I have the link to it, I think it is petern's
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08:53:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
08:54:49 <Supercheese> ban that taylor user
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09:03:11 <taylor> did someone here make lambos.info
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09:17:10 <Alberth> andythenorth: hi hi, pushed a cargo type storage routine
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09:38:06 <andythenorth> morning Alberth :)
09:38:12 <andythenorth> so key value lists
09:38:17 <andythenorth> and we were only iterating keys
09:38:30 <andythenorth> or something, I don’t understand the Squirrel implementation
09:38:54 <andythenorth> someone kban taylor
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09:39:49 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*@217.23.10.189
09:39:54 *** taylor_ was kicked by peter1138 (taylor_)
09:40:22 <peter1138> Obviously never heard of the Streisand Effect.
09:42:20 <peter1138> Anyone been able to review frosch's patch?
09:42:34 <peter1138> I don't really understand it all, just it looks a lot simpler to me.
09:42:41 <peter1138> (That sounds wrong)
09:43:46 <Alberth> it's on my todo list, but didn't get to it so far
09:44:32 <Alberth> looks good andy, I am working on trying to find a challenge for industries
09:44:57 <Alberth> something along the line find_challenge(cargo, desired_distance)
09:47:26 <sla_ro|master> he spammed all other channels
09:50:04 <Alberth> andy, do you want specific pairs of source and destination? (not sure it's possible currently). I was thinking to find a destination only
09:50:40 <Alberth> ie find a destination without any supplier nearby :)
09:51:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think source / destination pairs are nice
09:51:46 <andythenorth> but not essential
09:52:11 <andythenorth> I thought there might be classes of goal (possibly literally classes in squirrel, encapsulating win / lose logic)
09:52:28 <andythenorth> I wondered if subsidies are any use to us also
09:52:38 <Alberth> iirc you can monitor pickup and delivery, but whether the picked up cargo is also delivered at the right spot is not tracked afaik
09:53:29 <Alberth> sure, having a 'goal' object makes sense
09:53:41 <Alberth> you noticed existence of GSGoal?
09:54:00 <Alberth> perhaps it's just something story-book ish
09:54:48 <Alberth> at least it doesn't look like it does anything by itself
09:59:43 <andythenorth> afaict GSGoal is how we put the goals into the ‘goals’ window
10:00:01 <andythenorth> so far, I think story book (multi-page thing) is probably overkill for this
10:00:47 <andythenorth> I guess source-destination pairs means tracking a lot of cargo packets
10:00:56 <andythenorth> do packets even have origin stored?
10:04:43 <Alberth> yes, for payement purposes you need to know the origin
10:05:46 <Alberth> subsidies also check the origin
10:06:22 <Alberth> but cargo monitoring currently only tracks amounts of cargo
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10:07:58 <andythenorth> work with what we have :)
10:18:14 <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed an algorithm for industry cargo challenges
10:18:22 <Alberth> based on distance only
10:18:41 <Alberth> probably we should also check production :)
10:23:00 <Alberth> :O towns also have production, that would be nice to unify challenge creation
10:33:15 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was thinking about production, wondering how to normalise required delivery amounts to cargo available on map (or such)
10:33:21 <andythenorth> didn’t have an answer yet
10:35:56 <Alberth> just look at produced but not transported amount * 0.8 = max amount you can pull from the producer
10:36:52 <Alberth> assume X days / 10 tile distance + N months of that production + slack = deadline
10:37:54 <Alberth> 0.8 may need to be lower at the start of the game due to money limits?
10:38:54 <andythenorth> looks like a good time to make goals appear in the goal window
10:39:00 <Alberth> or we could make a slack long, and then change it based on your performance
10:39:37 <Alberth> euhm, I mean we could make the slack time quite long and ..
10:40:38 * andythenorth going to poke at GSGoal
10:40:45 <andythenorth> interrupted by children often
10:43:10 <Alberth> I guess we should build a list of sources and targets and maintain that through time
10:44:14 <andythenorth> for each goal? Or just generally?
10:45:43 <Alberth> generally, to create new goals from
10:46:14 <Alberth> maybe it's too complicated
10:46:57 <Alberth> mostly we need to know where to look for a source and a destination of a cargo type
10:47:08 <Alberth> that could be stored in the cargo type itself
10:49:22 <andythenorth> probably just run the same calculation every time a new goal is needed?
10:49:30 <andythenorth> won’t be that frequent, and the map changes
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11:04:10 <Alberth> looks like you can add a link to a game element?
11:05:41 <andythenorth> not sure exactly what that achieves
11:05:52 <andythenorth> anyway I’ve written ‘foo’ to the goal window :P
11:06:11 <andythenorth> we need a convenient way to have current company in scope
11:06:28 <andythenorth> Global Goals is possibly interesting
11:06:44 <andythenorth> for collaboration
11:08:19 <andythenorth> Zuu seems to keep a list of all companies in NCG
11:09:50 <Alberth> if you give companies goals, that makes sense
11:23:58 <andythenorth> GoalType seems significant
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11:35:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: so assigning goals to companies needs at least one company to exist
11:35:56 <andythenorth> which isn’t true on first run of the GS
11:36:08 <andythenorth> this.Sleep(1) is how frosch handled that
11:36:45 <Alberth> eventually we need to make goals in the event loop
11:36:54 <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:37:01 <Alberth> so maybe just skip creation if there is no company?
11:38:02 <andythenorth> I pushed another useless proof of concept
11:38:13 <Alberth> ie in the 'while (true) { /* try make goal if needed */; /* do other things. */; sleep(...); }
11:38:23 <andythenorth> there’s plenty of stuff in SV to borrow
11:38:38 <andythenorth> so are our goals per-company or global?
11:38:50 <andythenorth> in MP, if the goals are global, it’s a bit like capture the hill
11:38:56 <andythenorth> first one to win the goal, wins the goal...
11:39:22 <andythenorth> thinking out loud
11:39:38 <Alberth> company goals would work for coop too
11:40:06 <Alberth> and coop between companies doesn't exist anyway :)
11:40:42 <Alberth> per-company looks like the most useful way to go, imho
11:41:54 <Alberth> no idea if cargo monitoring works per company, I do hope so :)
12:25:06 <andythenorth> cargo monitoring appears to be per company :)
12:27:04 <Alberth> yay, I was awake enough at the time :)
12:42:05 <andythenorth> when I get an uninterrupted moment, I’ll hook the goals up to goal window
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14:15:36 <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed companies getting goals
14:20:06 <andythenorth> I was about to start on a company storage, you’ve saved me that :)
14:24:16 <andythenorth> looking at other GS, we might need a goals storage
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14:30:55 <andythenorth> Alberth: if I push, are you in the middle of anything that will need merged?
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14:31:42 <andythenorth> goals are created now, in the goals window
14:31:49 <andythenorth> there is a delay while it happens
14:32:12 <Alberth> my code creates one goal / day
14:32:21 <andythenorth> ok that explains it
14:34:09 * andythenorth trying to show the destination in the goals
14:34:21 <andythenorth> FindChallenge returns something that might be what I need?
14:35:39 <Alberth> accept has a "town" or "ind" field
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14:48:42 <andythenorth> ho single quote versus double quote is signifcant in squirrel :)
14:53:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: goals window now shows destinations
14:53:43 <andythenorth> I’ll see if I can pretty-print the cargo amounts and names
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15:58:49 <andythenorth> stumbling on the string prettifying
16:17:56 <andythenorth> as the parameter to string code {CARGO_LIST}
16:18:58 <andythenorth> Alberth: I pushed some prettification
16:19:08 <andythenorth> the cargo amounts have me stuck
16:20:16 <andythenorth> but if we could construct the right structure for the param, I think we can use CARGO_SHORT or such
16:20:21 <andythenorth> frosch does afaict
16:20:41 <andythenorth> we want the correct units, getting them manually will be silly
16:20:46 <Alberth> indeed, CARGO_SHORT looks like the right solution
16:21:29 <andythenorth> the code I’m writing is ugly btw, can sort that out later
16:23:17 <Alberth> pushed preventing duplicate goals for a company
16:26:09 <andythenorth> so much housekeeping :D
16:27:21 <Alberth> should it do that for all companies (as in, never give out the same goal to two or more companies?)
16:30:58 <andythenorth> been thinking about that
16:31:16 <andythenorth> if you force only unique goals, might run out of goals on a small map
16:31:56 <andythenorth> wondering about ‘try hard to prevent companies having duplicate goals, but give up after n tries'
16:32:01 <Alberth> you don't want to play 15 companies at 64x64 :p
16:32:34 <andythenorth> is it easier to allow or disallow right now?
16:33:01 <Alberth> now, I only check within 1 company
16:33:09 <andythenorth> leave it like that then
16:33:22 <Alberth> so the check should be expanded to all companies
16:33:38 <Alberth> ok, let's leave it for now
16:33:57 <Alberth> someone will complain about it somewhen :)
16:40:55 <andythenorth> what’s next? Cargo monitor & goal met function?
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16:45:27 * andythenorth tidies a bit of dead code
16:55:11 <Alberth> pushed clicking at a goal
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17:06:54 <glevans2> andythenorth: depending on how long a map is played, is there a point at which you would recycle previously completed goals, or maybe goals that were completed by another company?
17:09:01 <andythenorth> they’d be completed
17:09:17 <andythenorth> some might be hard to complete twice, others…not
17:10:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: neat :)
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17:29:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: {CARGO_LONG} takes two parameter entries
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17:30:25 <andythenorth> oops, pushed a fix :)
17:39:28 <Alberth> feel free to add goal measurement code
17:39:54 <Alberth> I don't want to start doing that tonight
17:52:28 <andythenorth> I might poke at it
17:53:00 <andythenorth> so FMainClass::Start is the main loop?
17:54:55 <Alberth> the "while(true)" part at the end
18:37:38 <Jinassi> Has there been a scenario, where a player would get "Cant insert new orders. No more space for orders" prompt? I have never experienced such thing and had far more vehicles ingame than the player(~1k), who received such message. Still waiting for savegame to see wtf is going on. Sent a link to the forum too.
18:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the limit is 256 entries
18:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> implicit orders may get you there if the route is a bit chaotic
18:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of vehicles is irrelevant
18:44:19 <Rubidium> or orders aren't shared
18:44:30 <Jinassi> true, I advised on implicit orders too.
20:42:26 <NGC3982> I guess core2duo works out nicely for OpenTTD?
20:43:48 <NGC3982> I don't. I'm just browsing for give-aways in the server department
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20:55:59 <Jinassi> Is vehicle parts limit of 65000 still in effect(part of an articulated vehicle (road/rail), 1 rail wagon/engine, the shadow of aircraft, the rotor of helicopters, the smoke from trains, all disaster vehicles)?
20:58:11 <Jinassi> nvm me, found..bad gogle-fu
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21:40:30 <peter1138> core2duo is really ancient
21:42:01 <FLHerne> peter1138: IMO, it's the earliest non-ancient thing
21:42:39 <FLHerne> Big jump from the P4/PD, and unlike those still actually useful
21:44:15 <FLHerne> Ironlake was incremental, as were IVB and Haswell, so it's only one big step behind old even now
21:47:57 * Taede still runs core2 duo/quad as main pc's
21:48:39 <Taede> though the laptop is due to be upgraded to an i5-4
21:49:21 <Taede> keeps up fine with most coop games though
21:49:28 <FLHerne> I'm still using my actually-ancient PD desktop
21:49:40 <FLHerne> Looking at Haswell i3s though
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22:02:18 <Jinassi> well if he finds something better than core2duo in write-offs, i do hope he'll take it
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