IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-20
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00:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you could also treat making a giant screenshot like making a savegame, i.e. making a copy of the map and then do the "drawing" in another thread
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00:11:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that way, you minimize the interruption of the game
00:12:50 <argoneus> I wonder how hard that would be to patch in
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05:43:20 <Jinassi> player posted instructions on how to use 32bpp extrazoom grf as a static. gto a feeling it's a bit toucky grf due to license issues with it. I can remove post on /r/openttd at your discretion devs
05:50:23 <Supercheese> oooooh no wait it's both
05:53:25 <Jinassi> try it with OpenGFX :p
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05:56:55 <Supercheese> Ugh, he recommended you put in content_download...
05:57:21 <Supercheese> I do not understand why, that should be for Bananas only
05:57:40 <Supercheese> but people go sticking their own stuff in there
06:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> some myths you don't get killed
06:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but still you should work against that...
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06:21:52 <Eddi|zuHause> like the person who used the trash folder as mail archive
06:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... until an admin came along and flushed everybody's trash to make space
06:22:09 <Gantradies> hey... err.. woudl nayone be up for giving me a hand configureing a linuix Dedicated server/
06:23:12 <Gantradies> i normally play on windows, the owner of my teamspeak group set one up on one of his spare racks and is letting me run it, and im trying to work out how to get online content working properly ( im accessing the VM via SSH through PuTTy)
06:24:07 <Gantradies> like, how to enable it without access to the ingame gui. i dropboxed in a config file, but it removed the info at teh bottom o nteh active newGRF's
06:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you use the "content" command, it works vaguely like a package manager you find on linux
06:24:39 <Gantradies> i know aobut that, i mean actually activating it, or does it do it automatically usually and i messed something up before
06:25:09 <Gantradies> ( barely knows more then teh barest navigation basics for useing LX)
06:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> something like "content select <blah>" and "content download"
06:25:27 <Gantradies> and it automatically activates it next time you generate a new map?
06:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's probably easier if you upload a savegame you made with your client
06:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> with all the settings and newgrfs and stuff
06:27:04 <Gantradies> *facepalm* sohulda tohurght abotu that. its al ittle tricky because it dont have actual access to teh box, and FTP isnt enabled
06:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if you upload a .cfg from windows to linux, you probably need to replace the \ with / for the path names
06:28:25 <Gantradies> on, say, Therse ones, right? urban_suspended_monorail.1.1\susmon1.1.grf = vacuum_tube_train-0.22\vactrain.grf = aussie_town_names-0.1\downunder.grf = av8_aviators_aircraft_set-2.21\pb_av8w.grf = monolev_replacement_set_v0.3.6-0.3.7\mrsv037.grf = oil_rig_for_snowland_and_desert-v1\oilrigsd.grf = sailing_ships-0.62\ss.grf = fish_2-squidrc8\fish.grf = 1 1 0 temperate_oil_wells_can_increase.v2\oilsgoup.grf = national_bank_ttdur-1.0\nationalbankw
06:28:36 <Gantradies> or on everything that involves file/folder paths in the file?
06:29:01 <Gantradies> like, just teh entrys in teh newgrf section at the bottom, or..?
06:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but additionally, these look like old format, the new format has some info about versions in them
06:29:21 <Gantradies> sorry if im asking a lotta stupid questions, im trying ot make sure i dont mess osmething up due to assumeing osmething basic
06:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the game might ignore/delete old format info, especially if it can't find the files
06:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the format was changed between 1.3 and 1.4
06:30:28 <Gantradies> merf. so if i donwload it ingame via the console, if i get it ot gen a new world, will itutomatically use the new content, or owudl i have to add it to teh .cfg file manually?
06:30:53 <Gantradies> between? thats odd, i only redownloaded aobut a monthr 2 back, did a new stable ver come out iwothut me noticeing?
06:31:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no, 1.4 is from april this year
06:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> with some minor updates since then
06:31:56 <Gantradies> huh. thats odd. im definitely on 1.4. what'd make it save teh info with old format?
06:33:17 <Gantradies> sorry i keep coming back ot this, but if i donwload some newgrfs to the server via console commands, they'll be installed and when i make a new map?
06:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are not in the .cfg, they are just downloaded, they will not be activated on new map, but they will be found when loading a savegame
06:35:31 <Gantradies> is the game flexable enoghu to automatically DL missing content when you laod a save? i think space engineers has spoiled me X_X
06:36:41 <Gantradies> again ,sorry ofr all the stupid questions, just irritated that i keep messing up and triyng ot make certain i actually get it up and running this time
06:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the automatic download from command line was not implemented
06:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can "content select all" or something
06:37:40 <Gantradies> O.o wouldnt that mkae it DL literally everything?
06:38:06 <Gantradies> *mental image of admin yelling at me for queueing up a gig or so of textures*
06:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that is "grfid|md5|filename = parameters"
06:39:12 <Gantradies> what'd make it default to teh odl format?
06:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, maybe new format wasn't actually in 1.4
06:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> then it'll come to effect in 1.5
06:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then you don't need to worry about that, and only replace the \ with /
06:40:51 <Gantradies> whew! thanks for being helpful, jsut oding that now
06:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and make sure the files are downloaded on the server
06:43:42 <Gantradies> ';heh. anyoen remeber that old one from years back that added a SC1 Terran Battlecruiser as a helicopter?
06:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that was probably not legal to distribute
06:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if you mean this "sergej" guy
06:49:23 <Supercheese> I figure a Dropship would be more Transport-ish
06:52:44 <Gantradies> *grumbles aobut not bieng able ot set the cursor location with his mouse*
06:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, consoles generally don't do that
06:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the windows cmd probably doesn't do that either
06:55:28 <Gantradies> trying to remeber, is there a way to check the ocntent ID of a newgrf from the main menu?
06:56:07 <Gantradies> it isnt sohwing for me *( onj my client, think i'll just get download it via the console) asnd im not sure if it doesnt do that or im jsut stupoid and not seeing osmething right in front of me
07:00:19 <Supercheese> it should show that in the newgrf selection menu... unless that's a feature you have to have developer active for
07:00:37 <Gantradies> the short 4 letter one the console commands list and use to DL stuff fomr teh server
07:17:03 <Supercheese> oh, that I do not know about
07:26:27 <Gantradies> outta curiosity, are any of those web config plugins still being maintained? i saw some old threads aobtu a few, figured it'd make making a new map a little quicker
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07:29:46 <Gantradies> Hail Progman, the Coder Superhero!
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07:53:31 <Gantradies> i need a bit of a hand with this
07:54:45 <Gantradies> the server owner (physical server, i mean) set the map size to teh smallest possible (that really tiny island) while i was having issues iwth the server useing up WAY too much processor time, and it SEEMS ot be stuck on that regardless of the numbers i input in the .cfg file
07:55:03 <Gantradies> is there something im suppsoed to do to refresh the seed or soemthing?
07:58:18 <Gantradies> anyoen up ofr hleping me try and owrk out WTH is happening here?
08:01:10 <Gantradies> its driving me nuts, and ive got no idera what im oding wrong :(
08:05:44 <peter1138> Don't edit the cfg file while it's running
08:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <Gantradies> the short 4 letter one the console commands list and use to DL stuff fomr teh server <-- the 4 letter codes are usually expanded into 8 hex-digits (ASCII-encoding)
08:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: oh, you mean the index number, no, that changes every time something new is uploaded
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08:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: on that last issue, there should be a "reload_config" command (or similar) that reads in the config after you changed it. exiting the game without this will restore the previous config, discarding all your changes
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12:25:06 <NGC3982> I'm hosting dedicated servers with separate files specified with the -c flag. 'reload_cfg' is set to true (on automatic year restart). If i change a parameter in the config file while the server is running, will the change be apparent next restart, and used thereafter?
12:25:33 <NGC3982> I guess openttd loads the specified config file, and what i'm doing with my actual file should not affect the current running gameplay?
12:28:06 <frosch123> yes, config only affects new games
12:29:02 <NGC3982> I see. So changing the running config will simply make it change with the next server restart.
12:29:15 <NGC3982> That's great if i want to make small changes between server restarts, i guess.
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14:28:37 <andythenorth> are a big problem
14:30:13 * NGC3982 struggles with timetables.
14:38:45 <andythenorth> what are timetables for?
14:40:12 <Alberth> giving you the option to waste lots of time with them?
14:41:12 <Alberth> theoretically, they should be able to nicely distribute vehicles over time, so you get regular visits of vehicles at some point
14:41:46 * andythenorth has forgotten entirely the solution for loading speeds
14:42:28 <andythenorth> the internet will know
14:42:51 <andythenorth> can’t remember the problem even :P
14:43:08 <Alberth> instant loading / unloading? :)
14:43:20 * andythenorth has mind-numbing back pain
14:43:27 <andythenorth> and is running out of good painkillers
14:49:30 * andythenorth wonders why loading speed isn’t just capacity / 6
14:51:16 <andythenorth> there is no capacity in Iron Horse
14:53:28 <Alberth> just take the biggest one?
14:54:11 <Alberth> hmm, then smaller ones would load faster, maybe too fast
14:54:20 <andythenorth> should just do it with cbs
14:54:24 <andythenorth> not a lot of code
14:55:53 <Alberth> you can also use the average capacity as base line. cbs is probably best if capacities are far apart
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15:02:32 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
15:06:40 <andythenorth> what’s the result of n / 0 in python? o_O
15:07:23 <Alberth> ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero ? :)
15:09:23 <andythenorth> can’t put that in nml
15:13:00 <andythenorth> maybe that worked
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15:24:47 <andythenorth> now to make some types faster
15:25:00 <andythenorth> hopper cars are 2x faster to load than normal cars?
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15:29:28 <Alberth> anything non-instantly is fine by me :)
15:30:00 <Alberth> but yeah, it makes sense to differentiate on type of vehicle
15:30:03 <andythenorth> 2x should result in ~120 ticks
15:31:06 <Alberth> much like it is now, I think?
15:51:36 <andythenorth> how’s snow CHIPS? :D
15:51:42 <andythenorth> about same as before?
15:52:07 <planetmaker> yes :( RL interference messed with my schedule :(
15:52:24 <planetmaker> much less time than I anticipated
15:52:35 <andythenorth> happens when you’re busy making plans
15:53:06 <planetmaker> yeah, indeed. I'm sorry to have you let down on that again :(
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18:22:42 <andythenorth> deliver to every town
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18:28:31 <Alberth> town is complicated enough :p
18:32:56 <andythenorth> fun on small maps
18:32:56 <V453000> get XX average production on your worker yards
18:34:20 <andythenorth> I hate it like I hate hell
18:34:24 <andythenorth> and all capulets
18:35:06 <V453000> I say it all the time
18:35:11 <V453000> more cargoes, more loading stages = nice
18:35:18 <V453000> nicer than more engines in many cases
18:35:40 <V453000> doing one thing properly sounds better than 10 things halfway there
18:35:53 <V453000> which is a perfect example of me atm
18:36:00 <V453000> 10 newGRFs in progress, all of them not done
18:36:02 <Alberth> more different looking cargo is more useful atm, I think
18:38:32 <andythenorth> this is the last planned set of cargos
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18:38:43 <andythenorth> then brit roster of Iron Horse is ‘done'
18:39:07 <V453000> then the plan is bad ! :D
18:40:27 <andythenorth> plans can have v2
18:40:33 <andythenorth> but what would it add?
18:41:57 <V453000> well sure yetis are an option, but I am more like talking about more various goods types, rubber, various hopper things like clay, copper ore, various kinds of heaps in hoppers, various tanker cargoes which are visibly distinct from each other, ...
18:43:33 <andythenorth> hopper things are fine
18:43:43 <andythenorth> somebody give me a list of missing bulk cargos, they get added
18:45:30 <andythenorth> enormous spritesheet :D
18:45:41 <V453000> basically, I make every single cargo have their own sprites
18:45:54 <V453000> which does not mean that everything has to be unique, but in a single game it is, with any industry configuration
18:46:08 <V453000> e.g. sugar from toyland also is sugarcane from FIRS
18:48:45 <V453000> in the hoppers I have bauxite, candyfloss, clay, coal, copperore, fertilizer, grain, ironore, oil seeds, plant fibers, rubber, sand, scrap metal, stone, sugar, toffee, wool, recyclables, uranium
18:52:48 <V453000> on flatbeds: batteries, bubbles, fruit (various kinds), goods (many various kinds) - bricks, lumber, crates, glass, containers, ... - various sub-goods can be used for e.g. manufacturing supp/building materials/glass/bricks/barrels for e.g. rubber/oil/chemicals ... then I have food (various kinds), sweets (various again), livestock (VARIOUS ANIMALS! :D), paper, steel, toys, gold, diamonds, fizzy drinks, valuables, machinery(ES), wood, YETI d
18:53:16 <V453000> rest on tankers ... cola, beer(fizzy drinks), chemicals, refined products, oil, plastic, water, milk
18:54:10 <V453000> ask again what to add? :P
18:54:40 * andythenorth does not have sufficient compulsion
18:54:52 <andythenorth> even drawing these 800px for lumber bores the arse off me
18:55:07 <andythenorth> I barely look at the trains most of the time when I play
18:55:34 <V453000> in that case make everything colourful boxes
18:55:38 <V453000> no need to look at it
18:56:41 <andythenorth> I can give you layered psds if you want to draw more IH cargos
18:56:53 <andythenorth> the ducks would be cute in pixels
18:56:57 <andythenorth> at NG wagon size
18:57:39 <andythenorth> about 3/8 long wagon
18:58:39 <V453000> I has cargoes like that in NUTS repo
18:58:47 <andythenorth> but 3/8 is what was drawn
18:59:03 <andythenorth> and I hate drawing
18:59:27 <V453000> well putting cargo on it probably wont matter if it is 4/8 or 3/8
18:59:39 <andythenorth> someone just needs to paste all those cargos on now
19:00:08 <andythenorth> if someone cares enough, they’ll do it :)
19:00:19 <V453000> I use CC BY SA now btw, not gpl
19:04:04 <andythenorth> those wagons have wood now when loading at the forest
19:04:07 <andythenorth> definitely better
19:04:13 <andythenorth> compared to boxes
19:06:47 <andythenorth> problem for me is
19:07:09 <andythenorth> I only do cargo sprites for cargos I see in game :P
19:08:03 <V453000> I never play with ECS, but I dont feel like the set would be complete if it had such holes like not specific sprites for every cargo
19:09:29 <andythenorth> maybe one day they’ll get done
19:14:14 * andythenorth wonders which bulk cargos are missing
19:14:31 <andythenorth> {'AORE': [0], 'IORE': [1], 'CORE': [2], 'GRVL': [3], 'SAND': [4], 'COAL': [5], 'CLAY': [6]}
19:14:45 <andythenorth> that’s just FIRS ones
19:15:15 <V453000> well it depends what you transport where
19:15:18 <andythenorth> in fact no scrap metal, no sugar beet
19:15:52 <V453000> but often trains have same boxcars for goods, same for manufacturing supplies, same for food, same for fibre crops, same for fish, same for $otherthings
19:16:51 <andythenorth> I find it looks stupid when they change appearance at stations
19:16:56 <andythenorth> maybe I should get over that
19:16:56 <Alberth> but you have the precise model and version that was relevant at the time :)
19:17:32 <andythenorth> maybe it should just be primary colours
19:17:39 <andythenorth> red for food, blue for fish, black for coal
19:17:54 <V453000> colours are great differentiation tool as well
19:18:03 <andythenorth> but then why bother making a train set?
19:18:09 <andythenorth> it’s just arbitrary blocks moving around
19:18:16 <andythenorth> that’s quite appealing as a game
19:18:17 <Alberth> to let them drive on the tracks?
19:18:37 <andythenorth> I don’t hate the idea, but it’s not the set I’m making
19:18:54 <andythenorth> we need a tron-style set of grfs
19:19:04 <Alberth> we already have the debug vehicles by fr0sch for that :p
19:19:11 <andythenorth> bare grid, everything bright-lit primary colours
19:19:17 <andythenorth> terrain is black or dark grey
19:19:22 <andythenorth> sea is midnight blue
19:19:33 <Alberth> black on white drawings?
19:19:46 <andythenorth> black on white is a style
19:19:52 <andythenorth> I’m not trolling, these would be good styles
19:19:57 <andythenorth> not planning it though
19:20:15 <Alberth> someone started it already afaik, but didn't get very far
19:20:42 <V453000> sure, similar things are easy to make and could look nice when done as a whole
19:20:43 <andythenorth> it would be trival to render I guess
19:20:50 <V453000> but then making a whole base set is simply a shitload of work
19:20:54 <andythenorth> probably do the whole thing, base set included in a year
19:20:55 <Alberth> but different colours cargo would not fit in that themse
19:21:09 <andythenorth> you don’t need different houses or anything
19:21:22 <andythenorth> because it’s just representing flow
19:21:27 <V453000> sure andythenorth but still 10 000 sprites is fucklots
19:21:30 <Alberth> oh, hard primary colours
19:21:32 <andythenorth> so different types of buildings are meaningless
19:21:50 <andythenorth> industries are just cubes
19:21:55 <V453000> the buildings could differ in brightness slightly for nice thingz
19:22:04 <andythenorth> brightness = demand
19:22:14 <V453000> I might do something like that after I create my base set models and code
19:22:17 <V453000> then it would be really easy
19:22:24 <andythenorth> you don’t need any detailed track or road sprites
19:22:26 <andythenorth> they’re just lines
19:22:31 <V453000> call it ultrazbase: nothing to see on purpose
19:22:34 <andythenorth> everything is just flow, like circuit diagrams
19:22:37 <Alberth> it's much less than 10k
19:23:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: play factorio then :p
19:23:08 <Alberth> V453000: that's mathematically precise :)
19:23:41 <Alberth> /me likes the math of V :)
19:24:39 <V453000> cant go wrong with it!
19:24:44 <V453000> unless you are making a nml template ...
19:25:08 <Alberth> computers still lack knowledge of V math
19:25:40 <V453000> am not sure when that is going to change :D
19:26:27 <Alberth> probably around the time that neurological connections are standard :p
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20:00:50 <Alberth> is there any advantage of using the box car vs the open car for food in iron horse (normal railways)?
20:01:14 <Alberth> box car seems heavier and more restrictive in choice of cargo
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20:16:55 <andythenorth> Alberth: no advantage
20:17:12 <andythenorth> if you have reefer cars, they have advantage
20:17:55 <Alberth> currently don't have them (1879, tropical)
20:18:19 <andythenorth> yeah, ice in short supply :)
20:19:54 <andythenorth> it’s pretty much a visual thing, box car vs. open car
20:23:44 <Alberth> road hog is not in your sig :)
20:25:00 <andythenorth> thought I fixed that last week
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