IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-12-06
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01:59:20 <dreck> got a silly question but for tractive rating if you had both 1hr and 30min figures given, which one generally is more realistic in-game?
01:59:39 <dreck> hi...super-cheese? heh :)
01:59:44 <Supercheese> tractive rating is... time dependent?
02:01:25 <dreck> well its not exactly new that you can't use a traction motor at full power continously
02:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: for the game's "tractive effort" use the startup value, for "power" you should use the long-time value (if that is not given, use 1h)
02:04:58 <dreck> thanks, I had suspected it would be the 1hr one but had to ask anyway
02:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: many engines can use burst power for short times (like when starting up), but cannot sustain that power over longer periods of time (overheating and stuff)
02:07:18 <Supercheese> well sure, but that's power not TE
02:07:28 <Supercheese> although I suppose they are related
02:07:49 <Supercheese> but traction should be more static, weight/adhesion based no?
02:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's a naming issue. technically "tractive effort" is the resulting force of the power that you apply to the wheels
02:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there is the "maximum tractive effort" that is given by wheel-on-rail friction, which is what the game models, but there is also the "permanent tractive effort" that is derived from power, when the engine goes fast enough that the power cannot reach max TE anymore
02:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> F=P/v, meaning the higher your speed, the lower the resulting force
02:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> max TE limits you for the first 15km/h or so, beyond that, power limits you
02:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> longterm power interests you for long distance trains (defining max speed) and freight trains (defining max load on decent speed), whereas shortterm power interests you for local and urban trains, which start up very often
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03:15:18 <hdevalence> does anyone have advice on how to build a network without cutting off expansion?
03:18:59 <Sheogorath> what kind of network?
03:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> especially with cargodist, you can put your train stations further out, and transfer the passengers from the town center with trams (or busses)
03:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> also, frequent tunnels or bridges over your rails helps cities expand to the other side
03:22:04 <hdevalence> for instance suppose I have my main railway line, and I build it with one track in each direction
03:22:26 <hdevalence> is there a way to make it so that adding in more lines later doesn't cause misery
03:22:30 <Sheogorath> yes and where is the problem?
03:22:50 <Sheogorath> use path signals and create crosses?
03:23:02 <hdevalence> I mean what I guess I really want is a list of things not to do that save pain later on
03:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> things not to do: worry about future expansions
03:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> if you add lines, just rebuild the junctions
03:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if you worry too much about what happens in the future, you never get anything done in the present
03:24:31 <Sheogorath> for real I've bulid much really complex railsystems... openttd can handle it... (mainly) if you use the right signals
03:25:30 * Sheogorath gives the philosophers' stone to Eddi|zuHause
03:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the same as the "stein der weisen"?
03:27:15 <Supercheese> I think it lets you transmute lead into gold
03:27:19 <Supercheese> or so the legend goes
03:28:15 <Sheogorath> you know Harry Potter and the philosophers' stone?
03:28:44 <Sheogorath> oh it's "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone"
03:28:47 <Supercheese> which was bastardized into "sorcerer's stone" for the American edition
03:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen some, but not all, of the harry potter movies. but in any case, i have seen them in german
03:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so it'd have been "Harry Potter und der Stein der Weisen"
03:30:34 <Sheogorath> so because of your "zuHause" you're german right? it's a german word
03:31:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, it's two words, and also, technically, it's because i'm german it says zuHause
03:31:08 <Sheogorath> well, I guess you are german because of that :D
03:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be somewhat silly were it to say zuHause without me being german
03:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> unless zuHause means anything in any other language
03:32:50 <Sheogorath> it says something simular to "at home"?
03:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or german were the lingua franca
03:34:05 <Sheogorath> well, time is running short.. I have to go... See you later
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09:14:33 <andythenorth> releasing another fish RC
09:14:46 <andythenorth> it’s nearly done, just need to adjust some pikka sprites for hover zellepins
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09:45:56 <Wolf01> ooooooh, my old laptop returned to life
09:46:44 <Wolf01> it's like brain transplant
09:47:43 <Wolf01> I had this hdd sitting on my desktop for 5 years or 6
09:48:08 <Wolf01> I finally found a similar laptop model and put the hdd on :P
09:49:07 <Alberth> hdd is a bit small-ish now, I guess?
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09:50:06 <Alberth> just like my previous HD
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09:50:29 <Alberth> big enough, unless you collect music or video or so
09:55:02 <Wolf01> now I have to figure out the insane reason I configured a net bridge between the wifi and the cable networks
09:57:43 <peter1138> Becuase that's normal?
09:57:58 <peter1138> At least, on a WiFi access point :)
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10:00:30 <Wolf01> I think that's the reason, as I have xlink, hamachi and other weird stuff installed, I may have tampered with the PSP or the Nintendo DS network functions at the time
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10:03:36 <peter1138> Car block heating electric supply. Yeah, that's necessary :)
10:03:57 <peter1138> I wonder what gameplay mechanism that adds to.
10:06:42 <Wolf01> oh, my old "magic things" folder
10:08:22 <Wolf01> it's not pr0n, just every kind of debugger, hex editor, batch stuff, openttd-useful, libraries
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11:33:23 <frosch123> i hate it when people edit the wiki who are not on irc
11:38:21 <frosch123> anyone has an idea what the point of duplicating the colour hex codes to the nml wiki?
11:45:30 <Alberth> not having to read the grfspecs wiki probably
11:45:36 <Rubidium> I guess the dude that changed it has ;) Sadly enough for you I'm not that dude
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11:49:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, it's just main.nut
11:50:27 <frosch123> it uses one or two functions from superlib, and there is the info.nut with the name, ids and parameter description
11:55:13 <Alberth> frosch123: it could also be lack of understanding you can use the constant name
11:55:45 <frosch123> i wouldn't know where to use the numeric value
11:55:52 <frosch123> you cannot use numeric values in lang files
11:56:02 <frosch123> and you cannot pass colours as parameters or something
11:56:19 <frosch123> so, i have no idea where that value should appear within an nml file
11:56:37 <Alberth> perhaps as reference when converting from nfo
11:56:39 <frosch123> you only encounter it when decoding the grf or looking at the nfo output
11:57:24 <frosch123> but well, for nfo you have the nfo wiki. you do not add the nfo template for every language construct to nml wiki :)
11:58:15 <Alberth> of course, I agree fully. Jut trying to find a reasoning that makes some sense
11:58:45 <frosch123> that's why i complain about wiki edits with no summary comment from people not on irc :)
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13:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "dutch railways want to burn leaves on the rails with lasers"
13:40:46 <Sheogorath> What the hell? why are so many germans in here?
13:42:11 * Sheogorath is scared about that fact
13:43:35 <Rubidium> because Germany has a fairly good public transport system?
13:45:37 <Rubidium> at least the last few years
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14:34:13 <planetmaker> frosch123, I'm tempted to revert that edit to the nml lang files
14:40:12 <frosch123> i also wondered, it does not add anything but potential confusion.
14:43:01 <planetmaker> I have the same feeling
14:43:14 <planetmaker> I know no places where it's relevant for nml projects
14:44:01 <Rubidium> don't you need more information about the previous hexadecimal values to determine whether it actually is a colour?
15:01:18 <frosch123> usually it is encoded as utf-8 with that number being an offset into the private range
15:01:39 <frosch123> but i guess nml only uses utf-8 when needed
15:01:47 <frosch123> so, for english it may use those codes directly
15:06:40 <argoneus> I just noticed that some of the bulkier hockey players are even 205 cm, 115 kg, I wouldn't want that to shouldercheck me ._.
15:08:22 <frosch123> anything else would be under-weight at that tallenss
15:09:07 <argoneus> if there's a player that is 75, because he's shorter, this kind of mass will just blow him away
15:09:49 <frosch123> that applies to almost all physical sports
15:10:14 <argoneus> I knew there were stronger and weaker playrs
15:10:21 <argoneus> but getting slammed by 40-50kg more must hurt a lot
15:10:27 <frosch123> the exception being stuff like gymnastics at bars and stuff
15:10:36 <frosch123> which are easier if you are more compact
15:10:37 <argoneus> then again they have all sorts of protectors
15:10:54 <argoneus> doing gymnastics in the first place makes sure you will never grow tall
15:11:00 <argoneus> assuming you start at an early age
15:18:15 <argoneus> frosch123: but I guess this is why there are so many weight groups in boxing
15:18:21 <argoneus> else it would be really scary
15:18:44 <Rubidium> argoneus: actually, some studies seem to show that while gymnasts are generally short... after they stop they get a growth spurt and get up to average heights
15:19:04 <argoneus> well, from what I heard
15:19:16 <argoneus> when you are a kid, your bones still aren't completely solid, and they keep stretching and growing
15:19:18 <Rubidium> argoneus: there are also more-or-less weight classes in running
15:19:27 <argoneus> and if you stress your bones a lot (doing gymnastics), you solidify them faster
15:19:30 <Rubidium> compare 100m athletes to marathon runners
15:20:01 <argoneus> I don't really know what you mean there
15:20:05 <argoneus> they all seem rather skinny to me
15:22:10 <Rubidium> mr Bolt (100m champion): 94 kg, mr Kiprotich (marathon world champion): 56 kg
15:23:10 <argoneus> maybe the lighter weight lets them run longer?
15:23:46 <Rubidium> it's actually muscle fibres
15:26:39 <Rubidium> and the fact that one is mostly strength; accelerating as fast as possible, whereas the other is mostly endurance (strength/acceleration doesn't matter much)
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16:06:40 <planetmaker> frosch123, I sent an e-mail regarding the wiki edit. Let's see whether and what he'll reply
16:07:36 <planetmaker> I also said that he should always give a reason for the edit so that one doesn't have to go comparing pages always
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16:39:24 <Alberth> that would be my interpretation too
16:46:09 <planetmaker> frosch123, seems the reason for adding the hex to nml wiki was conversion nfo->nml and "(he is) migrating some of NewGRFs from nfo to nml and was tired of constant searching in nfo version wiki too"
16:46:37 <Wolf01> it should be shōnen, if is that what you meant
16:47:24 <argoneus> Wolf01: I mean the music
16:50:55 <frosch123> argoneus: i have no idea what that video is about. but the graphics looks like the usual japanese visual novel / dating sim
16:57:05 <frosch123> planetmaker: ok, that makes some sense :)
17:00:56 <argoneus> I'm talking about the music :<
17:02:14 <frosch123> the music? lol. i think it's called "kpop" "korean pop"
17:02:59 <frosch123> well, it may as well be japanese, but i usually hear the term "kpop"
17:03:06 <argoneus> jpop is a thing too :<
17:03:20 <argoneus> but I guess it's nothing super specific
17:03:23 <frosch123> usually it's just some casted group of some underaged
17:03:28 <frosch123> so, nothing i really care about
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23:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> Wolf01: I mean the music <-- darude – sandstorm :p
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