IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-11-04
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02:50:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 15 hours, 13 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: * Pikka bbatsomepoint
03:10:18 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: pikkaphone was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 16 hours, 5 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Pikkaphone> Psh
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04:56:53 <Supercheese> now they're both on
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06:44:11 <andythenorth> morning Pikka chops
06:44:18 <andythenorth> I missed the other one
06:44:36 <andythenorth> and I was awake half the UK night
06:44:40 <andythenorth> fixing servers in QLD
06:44:44 *** Hazzard_ is now known as Hazzard
06:45:45 <andythenorth> because people are wrong on the internet
06:45:49 <andythenorth> so I had to stay up and argue
06:46:01 <andythenorth> more accurately, !RoadTypes
06:46:29 <V453000> andythenorth: why the ass isnt hogging road visible to stable on pineapplenanas shop?
06:46:39 <andythenorth> because is brokens
06:46:42 <andythenorth> all over your face
06:48:43 <andythenorth> you should send that to shapeways btw
06:48:49 <andythenorth> and get it at 1:32 or something
06:49:47 <andythenorth> Pikka: what is go in pineapple land?
06:51:04 <Pikka> gotta texture another loco
06:51:14 <Pikka> NARS is just about ready now, going to release it today I think
06:51:29 <Pikka> I have this one week in which I can think about TTD stuff, then I think I'm done until, umm... March? D;
06:51:46 <Pikka> when uni will start again. So maybe until July, haha.
06:56:17 <andythenorth> so 1 week now to finish everything? o_O
06:56:45 <Pokka> V: you gotta chibi it up for TTD. Realistic dimensions will look spindly
06:57:26 <V453000> just figuring out some basic shapes of the model
07:00:22 <Supercheese> Keep changing your name and you will keep stymieing poor Dorpsgek's @seen
07:00:36 <Supercheese> as andy discovered earlier
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08:25:16 <peter1138> Wrong? On the Internet? Surely not.
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08:30:50 <peter1138> Now I'm reminded of the pilots taking off scene in Airplane.
08:30:55 <andythenorth> peter1138: I know, I was shocked
08:31:00 <Supercheese> They must also be wrong off the Internet too
08:33:01 <peter1138> Snap, prapple and cock.
08:33:17 <peter1138> That train is long.
08:33:46 <andythenorth> if I am NARSing I do about 30 tile trains
08:33:49 <andythenorth> otherwise why bother
08:34:14 <andythenorth> also we should extend newgrf spec for more good features
08:34:19 <andythenorth> - dynamic braking capability
08:34:25 <andythenorth> - air reservoir capacity
08:34:31 <andythenorth> - train coupler strength
08:34:46 <andythenorth> broken knuckle disaster
08:34:54 <andythenorth> also hot-box breakdown
08:35:10 <andythenorth> these are real train things
08:35:14 <Pikka> leaves on the line disaster?
08:35:14 <andythenorth> whatever your mind is thinking
08:35:33 <peter1138> Do trains explode whenever something breaks?
08:35:54 <peter1138> And decouple and spin madly...
08:36:04 <Pikka> how about you can skimp on driver training, for a 5% reduction in running costs but a .01% chance of trains running a red signal? that would add greatly to the gameplay!
08:38:37 <andythenorth> only 6,600hp for those three wagons
08:38:54 <andythenorth> peter1138: so action 1 / 2 / 3 roads then? o_O
08:51:35 <peter1138> Maybe we should implement daylength, badly, just to stop the endless supply of crappy patches and requests for specific versions...
08:52:03 <Pikka> daylength is a terrible feature
08:52:39 <Pikka> maybe if people stopped loading fifteen different train sets, all providing a hundred slightlydifferent locomotives, they wouldn't feel like they needed more time to use them all.
08:53:39 <Supercheese> regearing gone...
08:55:22 <planetmaker> Pikka, those who use a dozen trainsets think they want to play "realistically" but in essence they just want "the best" (whatever that is) machine for a boring leveled all-accross-the-track line
08:56:23 <Pikka> yep. but they're getting five new locos a minute and they can't handle figuring out which is "the best". So they want daylength to have more time to work it out.
08:56:31 <andythenorth> daylength is bizarro
08:56:57 <Supercheese> Well, even as a lad, I do recall wondering why the days were so short, and if I could make them longer...
08:57:25 <Pikka> the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map.
08:57:34 <Pikka> if you want to use allthetrains, play with fewer trains.
08:57:37 <Supercheese> then again, back then the day only showed up when paused, when unpaused it just displayed the month
08:58:00 <Pikka> if you want to build without the world changing much, build while paused.
08:58:17 <Pikka> I don't understand the attraction of daylength, it's a bad solution to almost every problem.
08:58:18 <Supercheese> yeah that's what I do these days
08:59:06 <peter1138> Let's remove the day display then.
08:59:27 <peter1138> It is pointless, anyway.
08:59:40 <Supercheese> Huh was 0-4-0 Grashopper removed?
09:00:10 <Pikka> is the set ruined forever now?
09:00:23 <Supercheese> I never did use it, just checking changes
09:00:46 <peter1138> No additional text, how will I ever know what to build now?
09:01:00 <Supercheese> Norris T.E. nerfed
09:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <Pikka> the game time is just a number, it doesn't matter. if you're trying to fill the map in a hundred years and you can't, play a smaller map. <- i disagree.
09:03:10 <V453000> wtf is the time good for then Eddi
09:03:54 <V453000> it really is just a number, defining a few functions like available vehicles or type of houses, but not really important
09:04:46 <planetmaker> Pikka, the point of daylength seems to be that they can pick whatever and have new vehicles not being introduced
09:04:55 <planetmaker> or the latter only (much) later
09:05:12 <planetmaker> so... maybe we can get by with a really cheap solution to daylength
09:05:22 <Pikka> turn on vehicles-never-expire and only build old locos?
09:05:36 <Pikka> really cheap solution being "don't introduce new vehicles after x date"? ;)
09:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it does matter a lot, because it allows people to match their own experienced world onto the game world
09:05:46 <planetmaker> well. maybe under the hood. we just have to sell it as new with a new button "day length"
09:05:54 <Supercheese> I always preferred Climaxes anyway
09:05:59 <Supercheese> (not that they were in OTTD)
09:06:05 <V453000> really cheap solution would be to have grf parameter "spread engines over X years"
09:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: in my experience "just don't build them" doesn't work.
09:06:25 <V453000> e.g. NUTS now plays for 200 years, with parameter it could be 400 or 600 years. tada, daylength
09:07:03 <V453000> I was actually considering to do that but then couldnt figure an automatic way to do it and didnt feel like writing it manually XD
09:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: again, that only works if people do not expect a certain year to be matched with a certain engine
09:07:41 <Supercheese> well it would work with NUTS since the engines are all WTF anyway
09:07:42 <V453000> mental disorder at work
09:07:59 <Supercheese> Realismz crowd would not approve of course
09:08:46 <V453000> regardless, is it possible to add some parametric values to the date thing?
09:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the point of "realism" is not to make things actually realistic. but to provide an anchor poiint between the game world and the player's own experience
09:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and some people need more anchor points than others to enjoy a game
09:09:12 <V453000> like date(2043 +x, 1, 1); the x?
09:09:49 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: date(game_start_year+parameter*intro_date_offset, 1, 1)
09:09:53 <V453000> or would I have to make such a parameter by if parameter -bla- then : data A, date B, ...
09:10:15 <V453000> can I just write it into NML like that and define those three things?
09:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think it works like this
09:10:25 <V453000> yeah I tried, it didnt :(
09:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to find out the values that date() produces, and then put those in the code
09:10:41 <V453000> some time ago but I doubt that changed
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09:11:31 <V453000> admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD
09:18:19 <andythenorth> just fake the date :P
09:18:22 <andythenorth> just have ottd lie
09:18:47 <andythenorth> someone would make charts
09:18:50 <andythenorth> showing why it’s wrong
09:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that only works if you figure out which parts of the game to lie to differently
09:19:57 <Supercheese> Future trains removed too
09:20:58 <Supercheese> we get the Acela though, nice
09:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> admittedly even if NUTS has the timetable hax, other vehicle sets wont cope XD <-- and exactly that is the purpose of daylength, to avoid implementing it separately in every newrgf
09:27:20 <Pikka> aerotrain was in the old version, just hidden under the sw1200 :P
09:27:36 * Pikka bbl, carry on complaining!
09:27:46 *** Pikka is now known as Pikka|dindins
09:28:11 <planetmaker> we should replace date with an era description :)
09:29:34 <andythenorth> we should stop worrying about it
09:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i always liked horse archers.
09:30:51 <andythenorth> dogs will always chase cats
09:30:54 <andythenorth> cats will always chase mice
09:31:01 <andythenorth> and the forums will always have daylength threads
09:31:07 <andythenorth> eternal verities
09:31:39 <Supercheese> no death and taxes?
09:31:53 <Supercheese> Dogs and cats first eh
09:31:59 <Supercheese> anyway, time to sleep
09:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, dogs chasing cats is a myth
09:33:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and cats will chase everything that moves.
09:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> until it doesn't move. then it's immediately boring.
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09:37:06 <planetmaker> 'bronze era', 'steel era', 'steam era', 'electric era'...
09:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: plus research labs and a tech tree?
09:38:44 <V453000> you forgot slug era pm
09:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> propeller era, jet era, supersonic era?
09:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> manpower era, horsepower era, steampower era, dieselpower era?
09:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of ways to define eras.
09:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that make things easier than a date?
09:44:44 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sure. Self-build your trains. From selectable components
09:46:36 <peter1138> Start the game in 4000 BC. Initially, time flies, but slows down later on.
09:46:48 <peter1138> Also make it turn based.
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09:52:51 <planetmaker> yep, something like that, peter :)
09:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> weird, internet disappeared for about a minute, but i didn't get thrown off all IRC networks...
09:54:21 <planetmaker> ping timeout... 7 minutes is long
09:56:51 <argoneus> good morning train friends
09:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the server's ping timeout. the client has a totally different timeout...
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10:03:31 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: do you live in / near adam?
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11:40:56 <planetmaker> that was linked yesterday, wasn't it?
11:41:58 *** Pikka|dindins is now known as Pikka
11:48:28 <Pikka> no complaints about NARS yet? I'm disappointed. maybe in the morning NA time. :)
11:48:53 <peter1138> Oh, didn't see it :(
11:48:54 <__ln__> i've never used it, but i can complain if you want.
11:49:20 <__ln__> first of all, there are no klingon birds-of-prey available.
11:49:31 <peter1138> My scrollback doesn't show it at least.
11:49:31 <Pikka> how do you know if you've never used it?
11:57:00 <peter1138> I can't play it any more ;(
11:57:32 <peter1138> (That might actually be something to do with being at work...)
11:58:56 <Pikka> darn. well that's definitely a fault in the grf :)
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12:12:41 <andythenorth> no more BAD FEATURES
12:37:16 <andythenorth> otherwise we’ll send a DVD or a bootable thumb drive
12:37:39 <andythenorth> seems USB is valid, but we missed a step (copy the contents of the .iso to the thumb drive, instead of the whole .iso)
12:38:46 <peter1138> That article is rubbish, talking about creating partitions with filesystems, and then... using dd to overwrite all that anyway.
12:40:30 <peter1138> Why do I have floppy disks on my desk?
12:40:55 <b_jonas> I've created bootable cd and dvd disks, even custom-made, but not bootable usb drives
12:41:08 <b_jonas> I could probably create bootable usb drives too similarly
12:41:11 <andythenorth> peter1138: floppy disks :o
12:41:21 <peter1138> Oh my fucking god, dog farted :(
12:41:22 <andythenorth> are they from an acorn? o_O
12:41:48 <andythenorth> archimedes used 3.5
12:41:58 <andythenorth> dunno, they broke a lot is what I mostly remember
12:42:07 <andythenorth> multiple copies of everything
12:42:17 <andythenorth> many hours spent swapping disks to take ‘safety copies'
12:42:26 <andythenorth> we had a thing called pi-rat
12:42:38 <andythenorth> it was a pi symbol and a rat
12:42:55 <andythenorth> used to help all the teachers at school pirate software with it :P
12:43:11 <andythenorth> now respectables
12:43:27 <andythenorth> where is open source Chocks Away also
12:43:35 <andythenorth> how hard can it be to move polygons around?
12:43:52 <peter1138> Anyway, I tried copying the .cdr to the USB stick directly.
12:44:28 <peter1138> I can choose Mac OS X Install DVD from the boot options then, but when selected it just tries to boot OS X.
12:46:23 <peter1138> Same with holding C.
12:46:24 <andythenorth> if it was set up right it would just go to the installer
12:46:56 <peter1138> So it's possible it's a copy of the files from the CD, but not the boot sectors.
12:47:05 <peter1138> Or whatever it is on a CD.
12:47:22 <peter1138> Or I'm doing it all wrong :D
12:47:30 <andythenorth> ach, it’s an Apple thing
12:47:34 <andythenorth> when it works it just works
12:47:38 <andythenorth> and when it doesn’t, all bets off
12:47:57 <peter1138> Which is not impossible, but the Debian installer USB booted fine... eventually.
12:48:00 <andythenorth> you get the boot options by holding alt?
12:48:14 <andythenorth> yeah that’s the correct thing
12:48:17 <andythenorth> there’s no other magic
12:48:22 <peter1138> Pressing C would boot the Debian installer, but it wouldn't work.
12:48:33 <peter1138> It worked with alt, though.
12:49:02 <andythenorth> we’ll make another thing and test it and post it
12:52:23 <peter1138> Also I had to use efibootmgr to disable some entries before Debian would boot.
12:53:20 <peter1138> But that should not affect booting from CD/USB.
12:54:15 <peter1138> Wouldn't be surprised if the EFI firmware looks for OS X specifically :S
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17:33:40 <Alberth> I hardly ever ride in a train
17:34:26 <FLHerne> How come? They're pretty good for getting places
17:34:53 <peter1138> No, they're pretty crap.
17:36:06 <planetmaker> depends. On private travel I rarely use a train
17:36:50 <peter1138> I've never chartered a private train ;)
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17:39:06 <planetmaker> One can charter here a historic tram along with a ride for whatever occasion you want. E.g. for a party
17:39:29 <planetmaker> going on the normal tram tracks trough town
17:40:00 <Sylf> They let you charter a whole tram in Hokkaido for a private party
17:40:53 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium
17:41:08 <Rubidium> I guess you'll get Sapporo ;)
17:43:42 <Rubidium> (not that the tram there was really notable)
17:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27055 /trunk/src/lang (simplified_chinese.txt traditional_chinese.txt) (2014-11-04 17:45:38 UTC)
17:45:46 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:47 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 6 changes by siu238X
17:45:48 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 49 changes by siu238X
17:46:11 <Rubidium> the only major caveat of the beer tram idea is that the beer museum is quite a long walk from the tram...
17:48:45 <Sylf> meh. nevermind hokkaido/sapporo. They have beer trains all over japan apparently
17:49:56 * Rubidium wonders what constitutes a historical tram/train
17:56:25 <planetmaker> when you're in Japan you can also drink the world-best whiskey alegedly
18:00:40 <Jinassi> Or, soda drinks of every flavour imaginable.
18:07:28 <Rubidium> reminds me to figure out where to get some okonomiyaki around here
18:10:08 <Rubidium> it seemed quite complex when they prepared it for me
18:12:40 <Sylf> I only use flour, water, cabbage, some kind of meat (usually pork) and water when I make it. top it with either worcestershire sauce or okonomiyaki sauce and japanese mayonnaise. it's basically a pancake with some extra ingredients
18:13:50 <Sylf> then, my friend made the pseudo korean variant, with kimchi. yum.
18:14:05 <planetmaker> kimchi... yum yum :)
18:14:47 <planetmaker> was the only food which ever was served to me which was too hot for me to eat :) Lost sense of taste for hours :)
18:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> pro tip on handling hot food: blow it and wait a while.
18:15:37 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the other hot. spicy-hot
18:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> lost in translation :p
18:16:11 <Sylf> so, the other pro-tip comes into play? do not rub your eyes after handling such food?
18:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that only applies if you handle it with your hands :p
18:17:00 <planetmaker> I did not do that... also I usually eat my food with cutlery, shopsticks in this case
18:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt i'd get along with chopsticks
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18:19:52 <planetmaker> not exactly tricky
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18:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> too many people got injured while i was learning to ride a bike :p
18:40:31 <NGC3982> Trying to use timetables.
18:41:06 <NGC3982> If i set a conditional order on "when 90% load, skip to next order"
18:41:20 <NGC3982> How can i keep the train there?
18:41:25 <NGC3982> Trying not to use full load settings.
18:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "Do not watch this documentary about Fukushima if you have a winter depression."
18:43:14 <FLHerne> You can have an 'if load < 90%, go around to the loading point again' though
18:43:21 <FLHerne> But that's kind of ugly
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18:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> just use a timetable
18:45:03 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: That doesn't work with industries with significantly-varying output though, like low-served secondaries
18:46:45 <NGC3982> I'm trying citybuilder for the first time.
18:46:54 <NGC3982> And full load orders are not allowed.
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18:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you manage to get not-full passenger trains?
18:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> provide a bus service to get ratings up
18:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause> get flooded with passengers
18:49:17 <ST2> complete section of the rule: Do not put full load orders on road vehicles in shared towns/cities.
18:49:37 <ST2> wich, for me, makes sense - to avoid blocking other players RV's
18:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense, yes.
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19:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> iz in ur konsole, reading ur filez
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19:48:23 <__ln__> in 2014 physical keyboards for cellphones need to be crowdfunded, yet funding looks pretty effective.
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20:15:17 <Wolf01> mh, banished 50% on steam... maybe
20:32:20 <Xaroth|Work> it's fun, but not -that- much replayability
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21:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> for 10€ it's probably worth it.
21:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but indeed, the replayability suffers of lack of design choices
21:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause> after a while it's just more of the same
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