IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-10-19
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00:06:29 <argoneus> good night train friends
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04:29:37 <supermop> i wish houses could change over time
04:43:01 <supermop> Pikka: saw your boat tour pictures - are you leaning more towards the modern end up there?
04:45:51 <Pikka> well, I could only photograph what was by the river from the boat :)
04:46:32 <Pikka> I do like some of those buildings for modern built-up, but I'll need to do a walking tour around some of the suburbs for older inspiration.
04:47:04 <Pikka> actually I was out at new farm on friday night and there's some gorgeous low-level deco apartment buildings around the park. You don't see them in other parts of brisbane.
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04:50:45 <supermop> yeah i saw some cool 20s or 30s looking stuff around there
04:51:38 <supermop> we have a lot of art deco and international pubs and commercial buildings in some areas, but very little in the way of housing
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05:37:16 <supermop> should an australian house set have lighting flipped?
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06:02:43 <supermop> ok so how about this: can sidewalks change based on town zone, or do trees etc just get layered over the same sidewalk sprite
06:03:28 <supermop> and if the latter is true, I guess one could make "trees" that are a rectangle of different pavement?
06:04:14 <supermop> Most areas in this city have bluestone curbs (kerbs) with asphalt pavement as the sidewalk surface,
06:05:23 <supermop> but "fancy" areas in the cbd, and some other high streets have larger, finely honed bluestone blocks forming both the curb and pavement
06:06:30 <supermop> since both of those materials are black/dark grey I guess it does not matter, but i was thinking of drawing the 'trees' and 'lamposts' areas as the fancier stone
06:07:53 <supermop> i wonder if it is worth modelling a road/sidewalk, or just take a texture of one and skew it into a dimetric rectangle in photoshop
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06:20:25 <Pikka> there's only the two road types, paved for the low town zones and unpaved outisde.
06:20:34 <Pikka> until andy codes us roadtypes
06:21:23 <supermop> andythenorth: i want fancy roads
06:21:39 <andythenorth> roadtypes are a bad feature
06:21:51 <Supercheese> that has not stopped you in the past
06:22:08 <supermop> Pikka: but one could abuse the boulevard trees to make fancy sidewalks?
06:22:29 <supermop> other option i considered was regauging roads
06:23:14 <supermop> so the sidewalk area was 'road', perhaps street parking or such, and then draw sidewalks onto the front of the houses
06:24:32 <supermop> that way roads are visually bigger, but not really out of scale with existing RV or whatever
06:24:44 <andythenorth> Pikka: can haz zeps (pm)
06:24:53 <andythenorth> offsets and what not aren’t sorted yet
06:24:59 <Pikka> that latter option could work well, supermop.
06:25:12 <supermop> and sidewalk can vary based on building - sidewalk cafes etc
06:25:51 <Pikka> abusing the trees might cause layering problems. and a lot of people (well, me) have "full detail" turned off and so don't get those trees anyway.
06:26:28 <supermop> usually developer of a large building is responsible for furnishing and maintaining the sidewalk anyway
06:27:29 <V453000> andythenorth make roadtypes immudeately!
06:28:23 <andythenorth> V453000: only after watertypes
06:29:10 <Pikka> openttd is a bad game because it doesn't accurately model turbulence above mountains.
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06:29:56 <andythenorth> should revert more height levels
06:31:27 <Supercheese> you could probably model that in a plane grf actually
06:31:32 <Supercheese> query aircraft height above ground
06:31:41 <andythenorth> also aircraft should get a service ceiling
06:31:53 * Pikka appoints Supercheese the new king of BAD FEATURES
06:32:05 <supermop> cant find texture i want for sidewalks - must go downtown and figure out a way to photograph
06:32:27 <Pikka> I shall check ze zeps later, andy
06:32:38 <Supercheese> Rex facultatum malarum
06:33:03 <supermop> strike up a medal with that
06:33:24 <supermop> mail one out each year to one person
06:33:45 <Supercheese> don't give us any ideas
06:36:05 <supermop> alright, if i come up with some road graphics by tuesday, anyone want to code them?
07:01:09 <Supercheese> pixel art at its finest
07:01:38 <Supercheese> or well, certainly near its finest at least
07:02:15 <Supercheese> Only took, what, seven years to get coded?
07:08:48 <andythenorth> roofs are lit wrong in \ view
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07:45:47 <supermop> we need rusty washing machines as new objects
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07:49:19 <Alberth> in case you're still contemplating what to do next, there seems to be a demand for north-american pixels :)
07:54:10 <Supercheese> Pikka's updating NARS soon, eh?
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09:08:44 <peter1138> 7 years to get coded, since then we have 32bpp 4x zoom ;p
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09:34:43 <argoneus> good morning train friends
09:55:50 <NGC3982> Is there a rough estimate on how much bandwith playing on a ttd server is used?
09:56:06 <NGC3982> Speed is not the issue, but the network cap is a bit sensitive at my location
09:56:16 <NGC3982> And it is unfortunately hard to measure at the moment.
09:57:29 <Alberth> you didn't think you'd be the first with that question eh? :)
09:57:50 <SpComb> joining a game uses a savegame's worth of bandwidth
09:58:04 <SpComb> that FAQ doesn't actually say that :)
09:58:29 <NGC3982> Alberth: Hehe. Thanks a bunch.
09:58:33 <Alberth> feel free to adjust :)
09:58:43 <SpComb> after joining it's perfectly playable on a 40kbps GPRS link
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10:27:44 <George> A CREATE_EFFECT related question - does it happen when vehicle is not powered?
10:27:59 <George> for example wrong rails?
10:31:07 <George> and according power. Is vehicles_is_powered() true when power CB returns 0?
10:32:26 <frosch123> it checks the railtype, but not the power
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11:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make a lot of sense
11:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it seems that video playback in chromium is broken. it works in firefox :(
11:17:31 <supermop> i have no desire to play a regular game of openttd here
11:17:41 <supermop> anyone want to play mp
11:19:51 <supermop> oooh buck was just shipped from germany
11:20:42 <peter1138> __ln__, doesn't look like a submarine...
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11:27:57 <__ln__> peter1138: what about a support ship for a submarine?
11:35:04 <frosch123> to prevent it from sinking?
11:47:37 <Alberth> smuggling operations, highly profitable :p
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12:33:26 <peter1138> Why do planes always circle :S
12:33:44 <peter1138> Unless it's busy of course.
12:34:13 <__ln__> only harrier can hover
12:39:44 <planetifex> airports have well-described approaches, so a circle is not unrealistic
12:56:23 <SHOTbyGUN> yeah blaim the ATC not the plane :)
13:47:01 <argoneus> I know this is not the best channel
13:47:08 <argoneus> but is anyone here well versed in microphones / audio in general?
13:49:41 <argoneus> any idea if there are desktop microphones that have a reach of 0.5 - 0.6m with decent quality and no static?
13:49:47 <argoneus> (that don't cost $800)
13:50:18 <argoneus> what I've seen so far, microphones need you to be quite close, no?
13:50:32 <__ln__> argoneus: this _is_ the best channel for a lot of things, from linear algebra to poetry.
13:51:03 <Wolf01> you seem confused with xkcd
13:58:00 <peter1138> Usually you use a microphone up close to avoid other unwanted sounds being picked up.
13:59:34 <peter1138> If it's further then you need to increase the gain, which increases all the background noises.
14:01:07 <peter1138> If you're recording a loud source (singing?) then that's less of an issue.
14:03:01 <peter1138> A shotgun mic might give best results.
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14:28:23 <peter1138> Gah, must not rewrite plane handling...
14:36:08 <Alberth> I have a patch to send an aircraft to a given tile with a given heading somewhere
14:36:41 <Alberth> it computes a flight path
14:38:52 <Alberth> my original idea was to make a big circle around a cluster of airport to collect aircraft, and for each runway assign 2 aircraft that circle just in front of the assigned runway
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15:21:19 <andythenorth> eagle flew out of the night
15:21:25 <andythenorth> he was something to observe
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16:09:04 <andythenorth> any of you want to do the nfo so CHIPS supports snow?
16:09:08 <andythenorth> I’ll draw the snow...
16:09:43 <andythenorth> the nfo is GRM magic, I’m not touching it
16:11:38 <Rubidium> I think you'll need to talk to a GRM specialist then ;)
16:17:04 <andythenorth> no snow for you then
16:23:09 <Rubidium> andythenorth: given the amount of time I play (:(), once you've drawn it... it'll take me a few years before I've seen your snowy tiles for the same amount of time ;)
16:33:26 <peter1138> Hmm, xBRZ looks interesting, but it is GPLv3 :S
16:55:55 <peter1138> Whatever happened to P1SIM?
16:56:33 <peter1138> Heh, so much for isometric :)
17:00:04 <andythenorth> he did a release in Feb? STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_TRAM :Foundry Tram
17:00:04 <andythenorth> STR_NAME_SUFFIX_FOUNDRY_HAULER :Foundry Hauler
17:00:18 <andythenorth> could have been worse :P
17:07:15 <peter1138> Heh, I forgot that GeekToo's EZ patch only worked with one of the 32bpp blitters...
17:23:54 <peter1138> ok maybe 3-tile stations was a bit short
17:40:11 <peter1138> Yeah but, they're only 2 platform, and I only have double-track.
17:40:50 <peter1138> Dinger 1000 to the rescue :p
18:02:24 <peter1138> Alberth, zig-zag down is "realism"
18:02:24 <Wolf01> lol, from the first comment on the pricing page of P1SIM: "Looks like the alpha release date has changed from 2013 to 2016. I think I should stop checking everyday…"
18:04:06 <Alberth> peter1138: sadly lacking in openttd, derailing at the bottom of a hill would be good game play, imo :)
18:04:43 <peter1138> Yeah, it's not possible to pass the maximum speed, and then we brake instantly anyway...
18:05:29 <peter1138> But generally people building zig-zags are going for "realism" and looks, otherwise you'd just flatten the hill
18:06:22 <Alberth> although in the latter case, it's easier to start with a flat world :)
19:06:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: MHL = “this one goes to 11"
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19:07:41 <Alberth> ie another form of "big map"
19:08:41 <Wolf01> "demonstrates an amplifier whose volume knob is marked from zero to eleven, instead of the usual zero to ten."
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19:10:11 <andythenorth> in principle, if we knew how to make more interesting terrain gen, it could make more interesting maps
19:10:49 <andythenorth> like a map that slopes continuously up from sea in one direction
19:11:09 <Wolf01> that one would be cool
19:11:10 <andythenorth> and all the industry at the top and bottom
19:12:10 <andythenorth> or an island with obscene peak in the middle
19:12:18 <andythenorth> so that routing is better around the edges
19:12:32 <Rubidium> andythenorth: trying the stepped heightmap at 256x256. Good luck building there
19:12:39 <Rubidium> s/stepped/staircase/
19:12:55 <andythenorth> there’s a stepped heightmap? o_O
19:13:39 <Rubidium> don't forget to set max height to 255
19:14:10 <andythenorth> can I set 256x256x256, flat, no sea borders?
19:14:40 <Rubidium> no, you can set 256x256x255 in SE
19:14:46 <andythenorth> remember non-freeform map edges?
19:14:49 <Zuu> Just make a gradient in GIMP?
19:14:50 <andythenorth> that one was a nice patch
19:15:02 <Zuu> Or whatever paint program you got.
19:15:10 <andythenorth> I did some heightmaps, they’re never worth the effort
19:15:21 <andythenorth> easier to hit newgame until TGP produces something not ugly
19:15:31 <andythenorth> only takes about 20 or 30 goes normally
19:15:47 <Wolf01> the problem is that we lack of step slopes and half height levels, which limit on the layouts, I have some really interesting maps in mind, but I can make them only in LoMo, something like ravines and high vertical rocks
19:16:21 <andythenorth> it’s as much about where towns and industries are as the terrain
19:16:39 <andythenorth> maybe I should make FIRS more opinionated :P
19:17:35 <Rubidium> regarding realism and MHL... we need tunnels that leave at a different heightlevel than where they enter, and likewise with bridges
19:18:02 <andythenorth> bridges can, no?
19:18:33 <andythenorth> spiral tunnel patch?
19:18:58 <andythenorth> tunnel exit and entrance face same direction, but 10 height levels distant
19:19:14 <Rubidium> one heightlevel is not significant enough, and... you need a flat-ish tile for that anyhow, which means more terraforming
19:19:31 <andythenorth> bridges = slopey graphics
19:19:44 <andythenorth> sloped tunnels otoh...
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20:05:13 <planetifex> north-west, Rubidium ?
20:12:31 <planetifex> so... snowlevels, and height level setting... it's a tricky issue
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20:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but, isn't "planet" a greek word?
20:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and "-fex" latin?
20:26:29 <planetifex> planetòs is. It's the hiker or wanderer
20:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because they're wandering stars
20:37:28 * andythenorth invents BAD FEATURE
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21:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's now a bed feature?
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22:25:38 <argoneus> good night train friends
22:31:48 <rrix> Urgh, I turned on zBase, and it looks really great, but none of the GRFs I have support 32bpp :(
22:41:05 <liq3> rrix: you need to play YETI then :D
22:41:20 <rrix> Yeah I do, though I was just getting used to FIRS
22:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can spend ages getting used to FIRS, and then it just changes...
22:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andy does not have a very steady and focused mind :p
22:52:01 <peter1138> zBase smells anyway.
22:52:12 <NGC3982> I guess someone around here has tried the new Sim City game?
22:53:24 <liq3> man I'm gonna have to try FIRS with NUTS sometime. Should be fun.
23:08:33 <Supercheese> Simcity 2000, good times
23:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: inverse horror sim city?
23:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i briefly thought about getting the new sim city, but then decided i don't need origin crap contaminating my system...
23:27:24 <NGC3982> The game itself looks absolutely amazing
23:27:28 <NGC3982> I have never seen anything like it
23:36:24 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they were... adequate... graphics, at the time.
23:36:48 <peter1138> Of course, bearing in mind there was only 32KB RAM in total back then, and 10KB of that was used for VRAM...
23:38:30 <peter1138> And then 6.25 KB was used by the system...
23:38:57 <peter1138> Hmm, so yeah, all your code, and all your data, in 15.75KB.
23:39:03 <supermop> my favorite classic feature of SC4 is the constant and unpredictable crashes to desktop
23:39:10 <supermop> really kept you on your toes
23:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, the first sim city i ever played had EGA support...
23:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> with like 640x400 and 64 colours
23:43:10 <peter1138> 16 colours actually.
23:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 16 out of 64 or something like that
23:43:30 <peter1138> But that's a whole 128KB just for the display memory! Impossible!
23:43:39 <peter1138> Well, 128000 bytes, anyway.
23:44:18 <peter1138> It would've been 640x200 or possibly 640x350, but more likely 200.
23:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm pretty sure that it was 640x400
23:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it was just short of VGA's 640x480
23:45:10 <peter1138> EGA couldn't do 640x400
23:45:42 <peter1138> And yeah, I played that version too.
23:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it certainly wasn't 200, because that would be weirdly distorted pixels
23:45:59 <peter1138> Non-square pixels were fine on CRTs.
23:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but text looks awkward...
23:46:33 <peter1138> 640x350 was non-square as well, just not as bad.
23:46:45 <glx> yeah like mode 0 on amstrad, with nice rectangular pixels
23:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a mode called "MCGA" which was 320x200 with 256 colours
23:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think Civ 1 used that
23:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> with palette-animated water and stuff
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