IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-10-07
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02:43:41 <Supercheese> Hmm, apparently the palette strings cannot be translated ("Default" & "Legacy")
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03:26:20 <Flygon> You know you're having the wrong mindset
03:26:29 <Flygon> When you're thinking a method of getting over 256 colours in OpenTTD
03:26:37 <Flygon> Is to use raster scanline effects
03:26:46 <Flygon> By punching in new palette data to the CRAM mid-frame
03:27:05 <Supercheese> already have nice blitters
03:27:17 <Flygon> Like I said, I'm in the wrong mindset :P
03:27:22 <Flygon> I've been around the Mega Drive for too long x.x
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04:46:55 <Supercheese> Oh great, now I have to add gender "cases" to get the translation just right
04:47:26 <Supercheese> or other contrivance
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05:31:16 <Supercheese> Huh, road vehicle driving side option is in both Advanced Settings and Game Options
05:35:46 <Supercheese> same with No. of Industries... which is oddly called Industry Density in the Advanced Options, despite being the exact same setting
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06:15:15 <Supercheese> it seems like several mapgen settings are duplicated in the advanced settings
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06:15:47 <Supercheese> and they have different titles, even
06:18:06 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone stop fighting players you player-fighter you
06:18:39 <Pikkaphone> hang on, just getting off a boat.
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06:28:38 <Pikkaphone> andythenorth: doesn't matter how idiot proof you make your bad feetures, the universe will throw up new and improved idiots.
06:29:01 <Pikkaphone> better just smile and let them be. :)
06:29:51 <Pikkaphone> better than 'defeating' them by making your grf unplayable. Not naming any names of course.
06:30:29 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: so I got up, is it your bedtime? o_O
06:31:05 <Pikkaphone> is 4.30pm, so probably.
06:31:22 <Pikkaphone> I'm on a bus back into uni atm.
06:31:48 <andythenorth> you will get an edukashion
06:32:43 <Pikkaphone> the bus driver just got a call on the radio
06:33:04 <Pikkaphone> that ringtone still scares me
06:34:18 <Pikkaphone> nearly at uni, will probably get disconnected when my phone connects to the wifi
06:34:41 * andythenorth will put away the shopping
06:36:05 <Pikkaphone> the bus radio ringing is scary because it usually means extra work, or you're in trouble for something. :)
06:36:32 <andythenorth> BAD PIE FEATURES
06:36:42 <Pikkaphone> bus control to major Tom...
06:36:57 <Pikkaphone> you're pie features
06:37:25 <andythenorth> somebody made BAD PIE
06:37:29 <andythenorth> Sweeney Todd maybe
06:38:50 <andythenorth> four and twenty blackbirds
06:39:21 <andythenorth> I think that means Mornington Crescent, no?
06:40:15 <Pikkaphone> corner of musk Ave and blamey St, sctually
06:41:13 <Pikkaphone> walking and ircing, how futuristic telecommunications
06:41:25 <andythenorth> walking and ircing into lamp post?
06:42:06 <Supercheese> What the devil is this "Cargo Flow Legend" thingy?
06:42:11 <Supercheese> I have literally never seen it before
06:42:43 <andythenorth> what does it do?
06:42:53 <Supercheese> Must be a CargoDist thing
06:43:37 <Supercheese> It is available even when CargoDist is off
06:45:16 <Pikkaphone> no, it's a cargodist thing
06:45:54 <Pikkaphone> I had to change my password for 'security'
06:46:14 <Pikkaphone> that's why the wifi hasn't connected
06:46:14 <Supercheese> ugh my university demands stupidly-long passwords
06:46:39 <Supercheese> It's maddening, I want to use the same stupid password everywhere so I don't forget it
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06:51:30 <Pikkaphone2> is mb calling me out for being insufficiently authoritarian?
06:58:51 <andythenorth> I always take Michael at face value
06:58:55 <andythenorth> I think he’s quite funny
07:01:17 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone2: steel torpedo cars for NARS 2.x?
07:05:46 <Supercheese> damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead
07:15:02 <liq3> Supercheese: Keepass, store your passwords. :p
07:15:23 <liq3> less effort than remembering multiple long complicated passwords.
07:15:39 <liq3> also more secure, because you can use unique, long complicated passwords everywhere.
07:15:45 <Supercheese> If that is software that I need to install, it's a no-go
07:15:53 <Supercheese> because I need to use university computers often
07:15:59 <liq3> does copying it into your HDD count as installing?
07:16:03 <Supercheese> and naturally they will not let you
07:16:08 <liq3> you can store in on a USB stick.
07:16:40 <Supercheese> hmm then they'd need to let me run it, which I have not tried
07:16:48 <Supercheese> may complain of a security issue
07:17:13 <Supercheese> well, their sysadmin decides that, not I
07:17:32 <andythenorth> USB being one of the better attack vectors
07:17:36 <andythenorth> just use your phone
07:17:44 <andythenorth> 4 word passwords
07:18:21 <liq3> Keepass let's you secure the password database with a master password and/or any file. Also Windows User Account, but you don't want that.
07:18:24 <Supercheese> they also want you to change your password every ~400 days or so
07:18:31 <liq3> If you setup the security settings right, no way to crack it without the master password. :P
07:19:40 <liq3> It has a "number of key transformation" settings. Mine is set so it takes 1 second on my PC. gl cracking it with 1 second per password attempt.
07:19:44 <planetmaker> liq3, while I use that for all the nasty websites and the lesser-used e-mail accounts, some things need passwords which one just remembers easier than using keepass :)
07:19:55 <planetmaker> for instance keepass itself ;)
07:20:05 <liq3> You still gotta remember a few passwords yourself.
07:20:17 <liq3> Saves so much effort having unique passwords for every single forum account and other BS>
07:20:46 <planetmaker> it does. More so that I can share the keepass file via my owncloud between my machines is helpful, too
07:21:00 <liq3> and the database is totally secure too.
07:21:08 <Supercheese> Well, sounds promising, iff the uni computers let me run it
07:22:02 <planetmaker> there's a portable edition
07:22:10 <liq3> i've got like 50 unique passwords. so rediculous.
07:22:55 <liq3> I actually find it amusing, but I often find websites don't let me have super long and complicated PWs.
07:23:19 <planetmaker> or not this kind of letter or the other
07:23:23 <Supercheese> I'll try it, but I suspect that running foreign .exes off of USB drives is frowned upon, if not disallowed entirely
07:24:04 <andythenorth> one wonders why :P
07:24:08 <liq3> you can always redownload the .exe at the uni if they are really that worried. ;]
07:24:27 <liq3> wonder what excuses they'd come up with then.
07:25:01 <Supercheese> Heaven knows, they're rather uptight about things
07:25:23 <Supercheese> I'm very glad I have my own internet off campus, they filter traffic like crazy on the university wifi
07:25:37 <liq3> lemme guess, it's run by old tech illiterate people?
07:25:56 <Supercheese> heavens no, their system is excellent and very reliable, just restrictive
07:26:06 <Supercheese> run by security obsessed folks methinks
07:26:15 <liq3> oh, I mean't the tech illiterate people are setting the rules, telling the sysadmins what to do.
07:26:25 <Supercheese> ah quite possibly
07:26:39 <liq3> I really doubt any sysadmin worth their salt would be that worried about security.
07:26:46 <Supercheese> I'll be graduating soon enough and be done with the lot
07:26:51 <liq3> that they'd disallow keepass.
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07:31:32 <Supercheese> Awesome, {CARGO_LIST.dat} works
07:31:42 <Supercheese> was worried it might not work with cases
07:33:02 <Supercheese> only sometimes dang
07:35:16 <__ln__> Supercheese: did you come up with a proper isocode to use for latin?
07:35:27 <Supercheese> Thus far, merely "la"
07:36:18 <Supercheese> Reddit's Latin translation seems to use la_LA
07:36:45 <__ln__> LA is Laos, some country in asia.
07:36:50 <Supercheese> and minecraft la_VA, IIRC
07:37:24 <__ln__> i think _VA is the most sensible choice if the country part is required
07:40:51 <Supercheese> cases/genders throw spanners everywhere
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07:42:41 <__ln__> requires signing in to view it, sad
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07:45:09 <Supercheese> whew, last strings to translate are the CargoDist options
07:45:20 <Supercheese> also inconveniently the longest
07:47:48 * Supercheese wonders if the STR_CARGO_SINGULAR strings are actually used anywhere
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08:20:27 * Supercheese thinks cargo quantities should be capitalized
08:21:05 <Supercheese> Capacity: 20 passengers vs.
08:21:12 <Supercheese> Capacity: 20 Passengers
08:22:49 <Supercheese> Refittability lists are capitalized
08:23:07 <Supercheese> Refittable to: Passengers, Mail, Goods
08:23:37 * Supercheese is a stickler for consistency
08:23:50 <Supercheese> Cargo Ratings are capitalized
08:24:15 <Supercheese> essentially every other word in the vehicle info section is capitalized
08:25:00 * Supercheese could just edit the US English translation
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10:11:21 <argoneus> good morning, train friends
10:12:23 <Pikka> good evening, trucking enemies
10:16:19 <Pikka> no, you're doing it wrong.
10:39:20 <V453000> yeti in natural habitat of utter mess
10:39:42 <Pikka> its head is smaller than I was expecting
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10:50:05 <argoneus> V453000: are the sprites this detailed?
11:06:36 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
11:07:35 <V453000> myeah many things arent quite final yet :)
11:07:51 <V453000> sprites? this has nothing to do with sprites
11:08:06 <V453000> it is just a closeup on the model, is quite clear that it isnt adapted for being rendered from this close up :D
11:09:55 <V453000> Pikka: yeah much bigger head fits much better :)
11:11:40 <planetmaker> yup, yetis are true thick-heads. The head is much too small, twice the diameter, I'll say
11:11:58 <planetmaker> but looks like a nice view on those furry creatures
11:14:30 <V453000> :) well it is a start
11:19:38 <V453000> fatter, bigger head :)
11:20:06 <V453000> ready to dig some ore
11:21:47 <V453000> now to map,rig and animate it :d
11:22:04 <planetmaker> yeah, wonderful :)
11:42:56 <_maddy> V453000: is there any info on YETI anywhere? I would like to read about the game mechanics, like how industry production rates etc. work
11:43:19 <V453000> dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti
11:44:47 <_maddy> yeah I found that site, but I can't seem to find that kind of info there
11:45:25 <_maddy> ok, your blog posts on openttdcoop are more detailed, I see the info there
11:45:40 <V453000> well the precise details arent there, those are very much in the development
11:45:47 <V453000> especially next version is going to change production mechanism
11:46:12 <V453000> more dependencies, bonuses, ...
11:48:01 <_maddy> is there currently any bonus for delivering different types of cargo to industry, vs delivering just 1 type of cargo but more of it?
11:48:21 <V453000> no, that is the problem :)
12:01:25 <_maddy> so, there will be a 'realism' setting where YETI dudes are renamed to workers? :)
12:06:03 <_maddy> just wondering, because that's what they are called in your scheme
12:07:44 <V453000> will really a change of string cause realism?
12:07:48 <V453000> regardless, it is just inconsistency
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12:10:28 <_maddy> I don't know. I remember you originally had idea of having two separate versions of YETI, one more realistic? now the current state is kind of a mix of both, like it's mostly realistic
12:11:54 <V453000> I doubt I ever said I want something to be realistic :D
12:12:22 <V453000> perhaps some ancient idea might have been to have sane/full out version, but that is definitely not happening now :)
12:14:22 <_maddy> sure, in any case, not a big deal
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16:24:06 <Guest788> Hi! Can anyone help me with configuring an OpenTTD Citybuilder server?=
16:25:58 <jokke_> Anyone knows how to config openTTD Citybuilder?
16:26:19 <frosch123> download a game script
16:51:30 <jokke_> you know how to start a game script on an dedicated server?
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16:52:52 <planetmaker> either in the cfg there's a [game_scripts] section. Or upload a savegame which uses it and make sure it's available on the server, too
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17:00:19 <jokke_> thank you planetmaker, i will try :)
17:23:29 <planetmaker> luaduck, what's the output of uname -a on your server?
17:23:57 <luaduck> Linux cream.duck.me.uk 3.16.3-200.fc20.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Sep 17 22:34:21 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
17:24:13 <luaduck> aaaaand I've just exposed I'm running an old kernel
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17:24:36 <planetmaker> that's the current one
17:26:05 <luaduck> like I said earlier, we're going to be moving to centos either tomorrow or thursday
17:26:13 <luaduck> so we'll be on a more stable kernel
17:26:28 <luaduck> 3.10.0-123 from what I can see
17:26:31 <Alberth> way more stable everything :p
17:26:43 <planetmaker> (and way older) ;)
17:27:06 <luaduck> contrary to popular belief, having to update every 10 seconds because icinga's going batshit saying you've got security updates is quite grating
17:27:09 <planetmaker> what's linux' current release cycle? 2 months or 3?
17:27:09 <Alberth> yeah, you don't want to try installing random open source development thingies :)
17:27:11 <luaduck> especially when said updates break shit
17:32:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26975 trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp (2014-10-07 17:32:29 UTC)
17:32:36 <DorpsGek> -Fix: reading too many bits when determining the client index for desync debug message
17:36:43 <fjb> Trains in Trainfewer are no fun. :(
17:38:22 * Supercheese read that as Trainwerfer
17:38:46 <Supercheese> pew pew, firin' trains
17:40:50 <planetmaker> lol, Supercheese :)
17:41:06 * planetmaker imagines the XXL version of tossing the caber
17:41:23 <planetmaker> probably yetis might come into the picture here
17:41:41 <fjb> They look great. Building the tracks is fun. But trains with the same orders always want to use the same platform in a station and ignore the other platforms. So there are constant dead locks.
17:45:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26976 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2014-10-07 17:45:44 UTC)
17:45:51 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:52 <DorpsGek> korean - 6 changes by telk5093
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17:47:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26977 /branches/1.4/src/lang (25 files in 2 dirs) (2014-10-07 17:47:35 UTC)
17:47:42 <DorpsGek> [1.4] -Backport: strings from trunk
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18:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: there are ways to avoid deadlocks, but yes, some alternate path handling would be useful.
18:57:26 <Phreeze> i always manage to get a deadlock...too many trains on junctions etc :-/
18:57:46 <Phreeze> trainlength is a problem, i could go for more shorter trains, but i like those long ones :)
18:57:53 <Rubidium> so you want KUDr's work in tf?
18:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: pathfinding is not really done per train, but instead per "line"
19:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Phreeze: maybe i haven't had enough trains yet :p
19:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kinda difficult to do cargo trains
19:03:56 <argoneus> have you guys played alien isolation yet?
19:04:00 <argoneus> or does it not have enough trains
19:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that
19:06:32 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: How do you avoid it on a single track line with terminal stations without building a bypass in the middle between the stations?
19:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: how do you mean? on a single track you obviously can't run more than one train
19:08:57 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Multiple platforms (and tracks) in the stations ofcourse.
19:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: you mean like two trains on full load, and one is travelling while the other is loading?
19:09:39 <fjb> Loop scarf when waiting for the never arraving train in the cold?
19:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: you could just try to make two separate lines
19:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but it may come out worse...
19:11:46 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: No, both loading only what is there. Two terminal stations at the ends of the line, somestations with multiple tracks in between.
19:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: but i just generally plan my routes so that one platform at the end station is used
19:12:52 <planetmaker> Jinassi, what OS do you use for playing openttd?
19:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so even when the whole track is doubled, they will merge directly before the station
19:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: obviously with two trains, a double track section in the middle is the most effective wrt train frequency
19:13:47 <Jinassi> winz and android using remote control
19:18:01 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: I may try. I failed to build a second track where I would have needed because the landscape restricts me. But the routing still sucks.
19:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then just build at 1/4 and 3/4 and make 3 trains :)
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19:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't tried on difficult landscape yet, because lack of planning tool makes it annoying
19:21:34 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: I thought many hills would be fun in my first game, and the are if you are carefull. But who is that in the first game.
19:23:11 <Supercheese> Command 'STATION' can't have a case (FATAL)
19:23:56 <Supercheese> Station names desperately need cases...
19:24:57 <Rubidium> how would that work for the town you just called "Supercheese Metropolis"?
19:25:23 <Supercheese> Yeah, there's too much to finesse
19:25:42 <Supercheese> probably just settle for bad grammar when stations are involved
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19:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a few languages already had this problem, where they have to flex the town or station name according to case... but it's just not possible
19:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try to rearrange the sentence to use a different case that matches better
19:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's probably not always possible
20:12:28 <peter1138> just banged my knee with his kit
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20:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea who or what that is
20:31:27 <planetmaker> hm, Jinassi , you play using *Android* on your servers?
20:32:35 <planetmaker> Jinassi, does there exist an OpenTTD 1.4.3 for Android which you use(d)?
20:33:01 <Jinassi> no, using android to remote control my pc, from wifi when im at home and vpn when at work
20:33:19 <planetmaker> ah, kk. :) I'm relieved :)
20:33:33 * andythenorth shaves a few more yaks
20:33:45 <planetmaker> does that stink, andythenorth ?
20:33:54 <andythenorth> not today, but sometimes
20:34:14 <andythenorth> sometimes the yak is uncooperative
20:34:46 <Supercheese> Wait, but Industry names can have cases...?
20:35:13 <Supercheese> I guess they are more rigidly structured
20:35:14 <planetmaker> oh. I guess I learned a new idom
20:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard that before either...
20:43:33 <planetmaker> Supercheese, 'industry names' or 'industry type names'? The latter are not names but rather something more generic than a particular station or a particular realisation of an industry
20:44:06 <Supercheese> I suppose I should spot check before wasting effort if it doesn't work, let me try
20:44:40 <Jinassi> Anyone want some spam?
20:45:11 * Rubidium might fancy a spam burger tomorrow
20:45:39 <Supercheese> spam spam, wonderful spam
20:51:31 <Supercheese> Specific Industry names ("Shortston Oil Wells") can have cases
20:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> spam, eggs, sausage and spam
20:51:46 <Supercheese> the town portion cannot, but the industry portion can
20:52:11 <Jinassi> What tea goes best with that?
20:55:41 <planetmaker> hm, spam and eggs. Yeah
20:58:45 <MTsPony> hello guys. Anyone know how i can access my own servers by WAN ip? Sometimes it shows up in the Server list, sometimes not
20:58:57 <MTsPony> not sure how to get it back, need to do some testing externally
20:59:24 <planetmaker> you access it via IP the same way you access it by its DNS name
20:59:45 <planetmaker> but probably I don't quite get what you're asking
21:00:31 <MTsPony> Quite simple. You have the Server list in openttd, once in a while i see my own server there with its external WAN ip, but not always. Something is triggering it to show and to not show.
21:01:48 <planetmaker> advertisement to the masterserver makes it show up there. That's all what is to it
21:02:21 <MTsPony> Well it is advertising, and its not there.
21:03:21 <planetmaker> ok, what server list do you talk about?
21:03:59 <MTsPony> the blue window? Toggle for Show advertising servers only, etc? :)
21:04:16 <planetmaker> not sure. Might be that not all servers are always sent. Might be network protocol limitation.
21:05:01 <MTsPony> Does it show up at yours atm? If you are willing to check?
21:08:19 <MTsPony> Exactly, so why doesnt it show me it? And why cant i even manually add it with my dns or external ip either? It doesnt even show in the list of added servers, i mean i can add any random ip i want and it shows up, but i cannot add my own external IP
21:08:28 <MTsPony> something's weird there.
21:09:00 <planetmaker> well, for a change the #openttdcoop PublicServer doesn't show for me ;)
21:09:13 <planetmaker> And which servers are sent, if not all are sent, might be more or less random
21:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the UDP package got lost
21:09:35 <planetmaker> yeah, as it appeared now :)
21:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: if you can't access the server by external ip, maybe your router isn't set up to loop internal traffic back to the external ip?
21:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: assuming your client and server are both on the internal network
21:11:01 <MTsPony> I doubt it, as it randomly did occur that it did show up once in a while in the list, and I cannot recall changing my router's settings
21:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: this is independent from it showing up in the list
21:12:29 <MTsPony> Just to be clear, nobody else has issues from the WAN side for my server to show up or to connect right?
21:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not tried
21:13:11 <MTsPony> sorry questionmark is just a period.
21:13:46 <MTsPony> You're saying the downloading of the list and the servers that show up is independant of my router's config?
21:14:38 <MTsPony> If i look in my server's console i see constant [udp] queried from "random external ip" so i dont think anything is wrong there
21:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there are 3 steps involved here.
21:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> step 1 is the server advertising, and the masterserver getting replies
21:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> step 2 is you downloading the list
21:15:34 <Eddi|zuHause> step 3 is you connecting to the server
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21:15:57 <MTsPony> it goes wrong at step 2 then apparently.
21:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> step 1 seems to be working, step 2 has a random element to it, and step 3 is probably your router configuration's fault
21:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> step 3 should be working even if step 2 doesn't
21:16:48 <MTsPony> Step 3 == manually trying to add WAN ip fails?
21:17:15 <MTsPony> isnt that odd? as i can add any other random ip and it starts to show up?
21:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use the LAN ip in step 3, it should work
21:17:28 <MTsPony> yeah lan ip works fine from internally.
21:18:16 <MTsPony> perhaps i should cut off the communication between my two PC's and see what happens lol
21:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> your router takes packages from inside the LAN, and forwards them to IPs outside the LAN, and vice versa. most routers by default don't get packages from inside the LAN and push them back into the LAN
21:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> likewise, it doesn't accept packages from outside the LAN that are meant for IPs also outside the LAN
21:20:08 <Jinassi> quick fix: ask a neighbour if you can connect to his/her wifi for 5 min to test
21:21:37 <MTsPony> Actually I have connection to another seperate internet, but i can only connect through my ipad :/
21:24:38 <MTsPony> I disabled IPV6 firewall (Not sure why, but i dont use ipv6 so i just did anyway) and allowed respond to ping from wan side.
21:24:49 <MTsPony> probably one of them was causing this
21:25:39 <MTsPony> i cant see why Respond ping request from wan would affect this though
21:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: the masterserver sends out UDP packages for the server list, because TCP would create too much load on the server. but UDP packages may get lost, especially if wifi is involved
21:26:19 <MTsPony> there is no wifi involved, and i doubt my connection is by any means unstable
21:26:46 <Jinassi> we nagged his net provider to fixit
21:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause> MTsPony: anyway, it still shouldn't let you connect through the server list
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continue to next day ⏵
