IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-26
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02:29:05 <efess> hey, any way to do a console command to see what gamescript is loaded?
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05:37:25 <argoneus> I want to make a script, that takes a giant screenshot once in a while and uploads it to my website
05:37:36 <argoneus> I suppose I have to use a script with Expect or such?
05:37:48 <argoneus> or is it possible somehow even normally
05:37:57 <argoneus> like with a parameter or a rcon command
05:39:20 <V453000> idk but how about launching the game as network, and your second client simply stays in one position and takes screenshot every $time
05:39:32 <V453000> I think gettile moves your viewport
05:42:03 <argoneus> doesn't network game start the GUI too?
05:42:43 <V453000> well does but idk if you can make that automatic
05:45:22 <argoneus> I'll just use my irc bot with the admin port
05:45:38 <argoneus> and through that run screenshot
05:47:28 <argoneus> if I can somehow get the openttd folder
05:47:35 <argoneus> because on windows and linux they are different
05:47:51 <argoneus> oh wait I can just specify that in config, right
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06:22:42 <argoneus> you can't take screenshots without GUI
06:22:45 <argoneus> well, that makes sense I guess
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07:37:54 <argoneus> are there any commands to get current date / start date?
07:38:06 <argoneus> because there don't seem to be any on the wiki
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07:45:35 <Supercheese> setting game_creation.starting_year will print that
07:45:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 16 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <Pikka> probably
07:45:50 <Supercheese> "setting game_creation.starting_year"
07:47:28 <Supercheese> "getdate" for current date
07:47:52 <andythenorth> does not have all sets
07:47:58 <andythenorth> but then it would be big
07:47:58 <Supercheese> I just hopped in a game, typed "list_cmds", found those :P
07:48:02 <andythenorth> big sig is BAD FEATURE
07:48:08 <andythenorth> maybe time for HEQS to die
07:48:33 <Supercheese> HEQS trams are epic
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07:53:08 <argoneus> Supercheese: someone should update the wiki :<
07:53:10 <argoneus> the commands taht is
07:53:25 <argoneus> (I do realize that someone could be me)
07:57:06 <Supercheese> it doesn't have "getdate" for one
07:57:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth, just use smaller font ;)
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08:08:40 <peter1138> Someone™ should do it...
08:09:10 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 49 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 28 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
08:09:20 <planetmaker> lazy person it seems
08:10:29 <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen somebody.
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08:30:22 <andythenorth> mostly so steam trams don’t have wires
08:30:42 <andythenorth> no gameplay reason
08:31:05 <andythenorth> can’t we just forget roadtypes, and set a tile-has-power bit instead?
08:31:13 <andythenorth> then we can have steam / diesel trams with no wires
08:31:19 <andythenorth> and we can have electric trucks and crap
08:42:10 <argoneus> we could also have railroad-has-power
08:42:28 <argoneus> and then you need to haul coal to power stations with cars, and wire electricity to your railroads
08:42:35 <argoneus> else you can't use electrified railroads
08:42:57 <argoneus> we could have 'electricity hopper'
08:43:05 <argoneus> which carries 500 watt-tons
08:45:13 <V453000> just have batteries :)
08:51:00 <Rubidium> argoneus: doesn't help screenshot show which options there are? For example 'screenshot giant <filename>'
08:57:38 <argoneus> Rubidium: it said no video driver available
08:57:48 <argoneus> I think the server needs to be able to run the actual game to take a screenshot?
08:58:37 <Xaroth|Work> dedicated server can't produce screenshots
08:58:47 <Xaroth|Work> unless you run it with a video driver
08:59:03 <argoneus> aw, there goes my idea of having automatic screenshots of current progress
09:03:47 <planetmaker> maybe I should un-earth my keep-blitter-for-dedicated-server-patch :P
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09:15:19 <Xaroth|Work> argoneus: a 'trick' to be able to make screenshots with the dedicated server
09:20:05 <planetmaker> the cheap way is to remove some #ifdef
09:22:49 <argoneus> but without a video driver and starting the game
09:22:54 <argoneus> you cannot draw pictures
09:23:34 <argoneus> I mean, you probably can in theory
09:23:41 <argoneus> but is that how ottd works?
09:25:12 <peter1138> well it used to be possible but then someone™ removed it, because in general servers rendering is not wanted
09:25:43 <peter1138> the change to reenable it is probably quite simple. if you know the code.
09:25:52 <peter1138> which planetmaker clearly does :)
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09:35:03 <argoneus> how does the giant screenshot work anyway?
09:35:10 <argoneus> does it just take the map array and render tile by tile into a picture?
09:35:20 <argoneus> or is it something different
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09:37:20 <peter1138> something like that
09:39:12 <argoneus> so it's just some sdl routine to render the tiles and save it into an image?
09:39:20 <argoneus> e.g. it doesn't necessarily need a GPU or the game running?
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09:47:06 <argoneus> how do you guys log the server and have access to console at the same time?
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09:57:11 <Tykling-9167> I am on a windows laptop without a mouse and I've tried configuring "function of scrollwheel" to "scroll map" but I am still unable to scroll the map
09:58:21 <Tykling-9167> if it is set to "zoom map" it zooms in and out alright, isn't it weird that it won't scroll the map then ?
09:59:25 <peter1138> nothing to do with SDL
10:00:02 <Tykling-9167> was that for me ?
10:01:48 <Tykling-9167> hm looks like I can scroll using the "pan at window edge" function
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10:06:52 <wousser> Hi, congrats on the 1.4.3 release. I'm looking for the roadmap for future versions. Seems the one on the wiki is not accurate.
10:09:51 <wousser> It was with the 0.7 releases ;)
10:10:34 <wousser> So where are the bugs, new features, enhancements now taken from? The bugtracker?
10:11:52 <wousser> However, none of the issues are tagged to releases
10:15:34 <peter1138> and if it's not a dedicated server build...
10:15:37 <planetmaker> wousser, there is no road map. Fixing bugs is surely a priority. Features and other changes happen as they do
10:15:56 <peter1138> just specifying a resolution and a blitter might let you do it
10:16:51 <planetmaker> I think that's how it worked, peter1138. The cfg had a blitter and a resolution. And then the screenshot command would write images using those two
10:17:29 <planetmaker> it's a bit ago when coop used that patch on servers
10:17:31 <peter1138> yeah, well the someone™ who disabled it by default was... er... well...
10:18:06 <planetmaker> it's disabled for long. Dunno when or why actually. I recon it could be changed to be allowed by a separate compiler flag
10:18:19 <planetmaker> like KEEP_BLITTER or whatever
10:18:30 <peter1138> just compile a non-dedicated build and it'll be fine
10:18:39 <peter1138> it's only a couple of extra libs ;p
10:19:08 <peter1138> who even compiles dedicated builds?
10:19:22 <peter1138> our premade binaries are always full, aren't they?
10:19:51 <planetmaker> yes, they are. coop and reddit compile, for what I know. I don't know any other servers
10:20:08 <peter1138> i used to but i'm lazy now
10:20:14 <peter1138> only compile for trunk heh
10:20:35 <planetmaker> the need for the full xlibs is big. Just enabling blitter keeps deps low
10:20:53 <planetmaker> yeah... so do I. Server updates are easy... just call !update on irc for me :)
10:21:17 <peter1138> i have mono on my server, so that lot is already there :S
10:21:19 <planetmaker> admin port client for the win :)
10:21:35 <peter1138> so when do we start making dedicated server builds? :p
10:22:28 <planetmaker> ask TrueBrain. We got not the server to do since June :P
10:22:39 <planetmaker> yay for unwarranted highlight also :P
10:23:10 <planetmaker> our server where the CF runs on. It's got more ram, more cpu than before. So CF should easily handle that
10:23:40 <planetmaker> would still probably not be worth it. Dunno
10:25:08 <peter1138> not the server means you don't have it... but... ok
10:26:22 <peter1138> i have a 16GB 3GHz quad core with ovh, heh
10:26:32 <planetmaker> yeah. So does OpenTTD :P
10:26:47 <peter1138> so only a single 2TB disk
10:26:54 <peter1138> == backups are vital :p
10:27:03 <peter1138> i mean, they are anyway, but still
10:28:14 <planetmaker> 2*2TB raid1 for OpenTTD
10:29:06 <planetmaker> hm, though I think we have 32GB ram... I forgot :P
10:29:22 <peter1138> it's the best box i have access to :(
10:29:55 <planetmaker> no ssd as they were too small for our banannananananas stuff
10:29:59 <peter1138> mine is a kimsufi one
10:30:05 <peter1138> they're a bit cheaper
10:30:19 <peter1138> also only 100mbit, not 1gbit
10:30:44 <peter1138> i looked at soyoustart until i realised the price quote was for a *half* month... o_O
10:31:17 <planetmaker> yeah, they must have changed that. I find that... mis-leading trickery
10:31:41 <peter1138> it was to do with a half price offer, but it was for 2 weeks only
10:31:43 <planetmaker> soyoustart is ovh, btw
10:31:55 <peter1138> so the only price shown was the 2 week price
10:33:41 <peter1138> i wouldn't do serious hosting on it, but it's good enough for game servers and the like
10:34:17 <peter1138> now i just need to get the other people involved to cough up their part of the cost, hah
10:38:38 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
10:44:11 <argoneus> oh so just remove the guards
10:44:14 <argoneus> I'll try it thanks planetmaker
10:50:47 <planetmaker> argoneus, it won't help you, unless you compile all clients from the same modified source, though
10:52:56 <argoneus> the clients need the exact same source?
10:53:12 <argoneus> I thought it was enough if they both reported the same version
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10:56:47 <efess> no they don't need the exact same source, you can compile client side changes and not change the version just fine
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11:00:33 <planetmaker> and be happy about all your desyncs and stuff. And wasting our time with pointless bug reports when things go wrong with openttd which claims to be what it isn't :(
11:00:48 <planetmaker> please do not ever recommend that
11:01:09 <efess> I don't recommend it, I'm just saying you can
11:01:13 <planetmaker> if you modify the source, be so honest to actually state that you modified it
11:01:47 <planetmaker> and I'm quite happy about that
11:06:58 <efess> is there any console command that can tell you what gamescript is loaded?
11:10:04 <efess> Just shows grf and savegame data, good to know about that though
11:13:59 <planetmaker> efess, it *should* show GS data, too... hm... maybe it doesn't, then it's a valid feature request
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11:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> > env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo test"
11:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> bash: Warnung: x: ignoring function definition attempt
11:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> bash: Fehler beim Importieren der Funktionsdefinition für `x'.
11:25:34 <planetmaker> efess, please feel invited to remedy the situation and submit a patch :)
11:25:43 <planetmaker> maybe also as extra command
11:27:18 <planetmaker> maybe two or three new commands:
11:27:30 <planetmaker> listactivenewgrf, listactiveai, listactivegame
11:28:02 <planetmaker> in similarity to listai, listgame. There's no listnewgrf yet, though
11:28:57 <efess> we had an issue with CB, came down to the wrong cb script in the content_download folder
11:29:31 <efess> it would also be useful for stats/gamestatus
11:30:07 <planetmaker> listing the active game script in gamelog would also be useful, yes. It's part of crashlog already
11:30:44 <planetmaker> but it might make sense to indicate in gamelog when / if the active GS changes or on reload is not found
11:30:56 <planetmaker> and which is used on start, similar to listed NewGRFs
11:31:49 <planetmaker> maybe you can formulate an idea on what would be nice and first have that up for discussion. There surely are some more people who might have valuable input
11:32:07 <planetmaker> but having some working solution first often is a good idea, too :P
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11:38:39 <argoneus> someone on the internet just called me autistic for playing this game :(
11:40:13 <planetmaker> it's on the internet. Thus must be true
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12:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i just screwed up my system. wish me luck :p
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12:57:48 <argoneus> I just crashed a server at work
12:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i moved my / to another disk ages ago, but i can't get the bootloader to install on this disk ./
12:59:57 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: what does it say?
13:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "grub loading stage 1.5" and then reboot...
13:11:48 <peter1138> hmm, need to patch my nas, i guess
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15:18:13 <Jiinxs> Is it possible to change the default folder the game goes to for saving/loading games?
15:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> move everything, especially the openttd.cfg to a different directory, and use that as "working directory" when starting openttd
15:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> all default paths are relative to the location of openttd.cfg
15:36:45 <Jiinxs> okey, will test that out. Thanks.
15:37:19 <Jiinxs> Started a new game. GOnna try to only use cars ;p
15:37:55 <Alberth> 64x64 map, with firs full economy :p
15:44:09 <Jiinxs> I picked a huge map, I think it 2048x2048 ^^
15:50:34 <Alberth> I never play bigger than 512x512
15:50:59 <Alberth> although with a weird size can be fun (256x1024)
15:55:10 <Alberth> how much of such a large map do you actually use? Maps of that size that I have looked at are often just mainly empty
15:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the most i got was 50% of a 1024x2048 map
16:03:03 <Alberth> I recently started building while paused, it makes a large difference in your speed of growth
16:03:35 <peter1138> but okay, time does fly
16:03:39 <Alberth> although in the early years you lack money to do large extensions
16:04:39 <Alberth> the downside is that you see less trains moving around
16:05:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26923 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2014-09-26 16:05:42 UTC)
16:05:49 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Make multiplayer lobby fit to icon size.
16:06:24 <peter1138> heh, 4X ui is dumb :p
16:06:52 <Alberth> at least you never miss the button :p
16:07:21 <peter1138> maybe it's useful on a phone screen?
16:09:08 <Alberth> for as far as openttd + phone is a useful combination ? :)
16:09:14 <peter1138> hmm, error windows are a bit narrow
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16:15:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26924 trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp (2014-09-26 16:15:50 UTC)
16:15:56 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Fit YES/NO query window buttons to window, instead of unaligned.
16:16:19 <peter1138> oh, it's only caps in the code, never mind ;p
16:16:29 <peter1138> hmm, newgrf window too high ;(
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16:20:24 <peter1138> can we put void tiles in the middle of the map?
16:21:24 <argoneus> V453000: is there a particular reason for superstrong trains?
16:21:35 <argoneus> my MEDIUM trains seem to be good enough for oil, even uphill
16:22:10 <frosch123> peter1138: most likely you can, they will be unbridgeable and untunnelable
16:22:12 <peter1138> why does there need to be a reason?
16:22:28 <argoneus> because I assume they were made with something in mind?
16:22:44 <peter1138> needing a reason leads to the peril of andythenorth
16:22:51 <frosch123> argoneus: how long do they need to accelerator from 0 to max speed on a slope?
16:23:02 <argoneus> why would they accelerate on a slope
16:23:24 <frosch123> yuo can easily adjust the "good enough" to "not good enough" :p
16:23:38 <frosch123> stopping at a signal?
16:23:51 <argoneus> I try not to put signals before slopes
16:23:56 <Sylf> super strong classes can take super short corners without slowing down
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16:25:31 <argoneus> so if my trains go mostly on long plains
16:25:34 <argoneus> then it makes sense medium is enough?
16:25:48 <Sylf> NUTS isn't built for flat maps
16:25:59 <Sylf> but for that, fast class is good enough
16:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> needing a reason leads to the peril of andythenorth <-- but the whole point of NUTS was all gameplay and no "realism"?
16:26:40 <argoneus> I just can't really calculate in my head
16:26:48 <argoneus> how much horsepower/tractive effort I need for my cargo
16:26:54 <Pinkbeast> signals before slopes really caught me out in UKRS2 where the Crampton has essentially no tractive effort
16:27:12 <Sylf> We don't really think about just enough
16:27:32 <Sylf> for that, most NUTS engines are overpowered
16:27:44 <Pinkbeast> argoneus: I generally start with the locomotive and fiddle the train length post-facto
16:28:01 <Sylf> especially the later generation ones
16:28:47 <peter1138> hmm, status bar is a bit wierd with giant fonts
16:28:53 <peter1138> could do with stretch
16:29:07 <Sylf> compare any NUTS engines with any engines from other sets from similar years - all NUTS engines have huge TE
16:29:18 <Alberth> (18:20:24) peter1138: can we put void tiles in the middle of the map? <-- didn't y3xo did that one time?
16:29:54 <Alberth> with his head to head version
16:31:35 <frosch123> peter1138: make it span the whole width, and make tickers scroll vertically
16:36:51 <Rubidium> make its width proportional to the font size?
16:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> would that not be helpful for almost all windows?
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16:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: isn't the essential definition of a ticker that it spits out letter by letter?
16:39:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but they already scale mostly by font size in some manner. The status bar center section just gets smaller and smaller
16:40:05 <peter1138> yeah, most windows scale
16:51:19 <frosch123> if we make the ticker scroll vertically, we could also allow resizing it vertically, so the last n messages are visible
16:51:26 <frosch123> which would maybe make it even useful
16:52:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: your ticker focuses on realism :p i prefer gameplay
16:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd start by making the ticker not block real news, and clicking on the ticker pop up the news history instead of the last message
16:54:23 <peter1138> i'm not making functional changes
16:54:32 <peter1138> just merely fixing up things to scale
16:54:49 <Alberth> I don't think that helps enough, you want some sort of higher level summary instead
16:55:52 <Alberth> if "real news" gets delayed, the ticker news is old too, probably
16:56:30 <Alberth> which would suggest "too much" news
16:58:32 <Alberth> which is of course to be expected if you make the world larger by a factor 16 or more
17:02:52 <argoneus> are there any disadvantages to RoRo?
17:03:34 <argoneus> so if space is not an issue, I am good?
17:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes. but what makes the ticker worse than "real news" is that you can't speed it up with space bar.
17:04:12 <Sylf> and it can give a false impression that roro is the answer to all congestions
17:04:50 <Alberth> but people like simple answers to problems :p
17:05:09 <Sylf> yes, the absolute yes/no answers with no pain
17:05:17 * Sylf starts handing out pain pills
17:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> those people have point-to-point lines without signals
17:05:54 <argoneus> Sylf: well, I usually go for terminus stations with multiple separated entrances and exits
17:05:58 <argoneus> but RoRo seems nice too
17:06:11 <Alberth> roro is a bit boring to build :)
17:08:16 <Alberth> no traffic that encounters each other
17:09:30 <Alberth> but just build what you like :)
17:10:06 <Pinkbeast> Where something like a pax line runs both ways, a ro-ro with shared platforms in the middle is a bit more interesting.
17:24:52 <Rubidium> LordAro: there are a lot of duplicate file names, I attempted to remove some duplicates (changing names). Seems it didn't work as expected
17:25:14 <argoneus> I just tried experimenting with a station design
17:26:27 <argoneus> though I should probably drop the block signals on the outgoing path
17:27:32 <argoneus> or at least drop that one path signal there
17:28:59 <Pinkbeast> It's not totally clear to me how trains get out of some of the platforms, or into others
17:29:26 <frosch123> argoneus: do you want trains from the very left platform to exit via the line on the very right?
17:29:30 <Pinkbeast> ... oh, wait, by dragging lengthways across the front of the station? Bleh.
17:29:31 <argoneus> I should've probably alternated the exits
17:29:34 <frosch123> and blocking all platforms by doing that?
17:29:40 <argoneus> would alternating exits help?
17:29:44 <argoneus> entry/exit/entry/exit
17:30:00 <frosch123> for a start, remove some tracks :)
17:30:05 <frosch123> give the trains less options
17:30:10 <argoneus> I'm completely new to 2 line tracks
17:30:13 <argoneus> with one line it's easier
17:30:25 <frosch123> don't allow them to cross the junction in a way that blocks all lines
17:31:29 <Pinkbeast> Also both incoming/exit lines don't have to serve all platforms
17:35:51 <Pinkbeast> I might - numbering the platforms 1-8 - line the incoming lines up with platforms 1 and 8, but able to access any platform (but they'll prefer to go to their own edges); align the outgoing lines with 0 and 9, so to speak, with 1-4 feeding into 0 and 5-8 feeding into 9; then use tunnels or bridges to join up the outgoing lines later.
17:37:36 <Pinkbeast> That's more plausible. I dislike trains turning more than 45 degrees overall at station entrances; I'd build slightly bigger knitting to accomodate that.
17:38:13 <Pinkbeast> Also the signals on the exits seem to reflect different maximum train lengths
17:38:25 <argoneus> they are just at the junctions
17:39:02 <Pinkbeast> But if they can be pushed back towards the station a bit without allowing a train to foul the exit pointwork, so much the better...
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17:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: should probably update your newstations
17:46:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26925 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-09-26 17:46:30 UTC)
17:46:41 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:42 <DorpsGek> croatian - 14 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:43 <DorpsGek> german - 49 changes by planetmaker
17:46:44 <DorpsGek> spanish - 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
17:46:45 <DorpsGek> welsh - 3 changes by kazzie
17:46:49 <argoneus> I came up with this Pinkbeast
17:47:09 <argoneus> is this what you meant
17:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> seems decent, except i would scratch the first X at the entrance and the last X at the exit
17:49:05 <argoneus> I need to re-balance the lines somehow, no?
17:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a neat idea, but crossovers at a main line never work out
17:49:27 <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: That's an ollld screenshot
17:49:45 <argoneus> where do I re-balance them, then?
17:50:02 <Pinkbeast> argoneus: Well, I find that more aesthetically satisfying, anyway.
17:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> just put exactly the same number of trains on either network
17:50:55 <Pinkbeast> If you were going to, I'd let trains from platforms 4 and 5 choose which exit line to use.
17:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the signal gap on the exit seems too large (between the first signal and the second signal)
17:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> in general, the signal gap should be smaller in areas where trains accelerate
17:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, pretty much
17:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> now let the trains roam!
17:54:47 <Rubidium> LordAro: I think it should be solved now
17:55:01 <argoneus> now to make the other station
17:55:08 <Pinkbeast> Well, I'd still lose the "skate right across the entrance" line at a right angle to the axis.
17:55:18 <Pinkbeast> ... oh, which has come back.
17:55:27 <argoneus> it's so they can choose a line from the other end
17:55:31 <argoneus> but they won't prioritize that, no?
17:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they should NEVER go to the other end
17:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that will ALWAYS cause more harm than good
17:56:05 <argoneus> I'll just lose the perpendicular
17:56:12 <argoneus> and then it should be ok?
17:56:25 <Pinkbeast> Quite. Letting 4 and 5 swap over provides a bit of rebalancing, but letting 1 steam across to 8 is bleh.
17:56:48 <argoneus> that could block traffic for a long while
17:57:54 <Pinkbeast> It depends a bit on train length, speed, and power/TE. A 9F can get a lot of coal moving, but it's not exactly a quick process. (And if trains are arriving full, or leaving)
17:58:38 <Pinkbeast> Particularly when flattening out land, I'll flatten up for a loading station, so empties go uphill into it, but full trains run downhill when accelerating.
17:59:09 <Pinkbeast> And even for a pax station there's something to be said for that. (The technique is used for-real on the Tube)
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18:31:26 <andythenorth> powered bit for road tiles?
18:36:34 <peter1138> damn, why are FISH sprites so BIG?
18:37:51 <andythenorth> you mean the ones that stick out of the canals?
18:38:03 <andythenorth> and overlap the docks?
18:38:30 <peter1138> i mean the sprites which are padding out with transparent pixels
18:38:47 <andythenorth> probably didn’t set nocrop?
18:39:09 <andythenorth> or 0.9.2 or whatever
18:39:48 <peter1138> hmm, apparently i have fish 2
18:39:52 <peter1138> but it doesn't appear in my list
18:40:36 <andythenorth> needs a recent nightly ottd
18:40:42 <andythenorth> keeps the riff-raff out
18:42:31 <peter1138> yeah, fish 2 is better
18:42:36 <peter1138> fish 1 appears to have loads of blank space
18:42:44 <peter1138> makes the highlight weird
18:43:10 <andythenorth> there was one version where I accidentally filled everything blue
18:43:15 <andythenorth> and then committed :P
18:43:25 <andythenorth> but I didn’t think that would be significant
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19:36:25 <andythenorth> trucks trucks trucks trucks
19:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "apple does not let its iOS testing team access the actual hardware before public release"
19:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf do they test then? whether it compiles?
19:37:41 <Alberth> usability compliance?
19:38:01 <andythenorth> reference platform
19:38:05 <andythenorth> in software probably
19:38:41 <andythenorth> or they are alleged to have reference systems in sealed boxes, with a shell over telnet or whatever
19:58:31 <peter1138> i'm hmming at ships still
19:58:38 <andythenorth> what have they done to you?
19:58:48 <peter1138> well the code is there to make it scale
19:59:14 <peter1138> is the sprite shown the depot not the same as the depot sprite? somehow?
20:00:00 <andythenorth> not intentionally at newgrf level
20:00:47 <andythenorth> I don’t check where the sprite is being shown
20:00:55 <andythenorth> Iron Horse does that for trains :P
20:01:19 <peter1138> do you have separate sprites for depot?
20:01:46 <peter1138> and/or purchase list sprites
20:02:29 <peter1138> different purchase list sprites
20:03:02 <andythenorth> uses a purchase spriteset
20:03:11 <andythenorth> which probably resolves to different realsprites or something
20:03:24 <peter1138> or for purchase & depot?
20:03:36 <andythenorth> only purchase afaict
20:03:42 <andythenorth> no reason to muck about with depot
20:03:49 <peter1138> not sure why depot exists
20:04:07 <andythenorth> for ships, no idea
20:04:11 <andythenorth> trains it’s needed
20:04:40 <andythenorth> can’t remember the original reason, but me and Eddi|zuHause use it for magical 3-part train bollocks
20:04:53 <andythenorth> because articulated trains don’t work properly in depot
20:04:57 <andythenorth> it’s a right faff
20:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: invisible front parts are difficult to drag around
20:07:07 <peter1138> well i'm pretty sure ships 2 is using purchase list sprites for depot sprites
20:07:24 <peter1138> which means the depot cell size isn't big enough
20:07:28 <andythenorth> might be what nml does
20:07:43 <peter1138> yeah it might be that if you have purchase list sprites it automatically does that
20:08:45 <peter1138> well, i might just clip it, like that done for trains & RVs
20:12:00 <andythenorth> this RV buy menu is getting big
20:16:04 <peter1138> now play with vehicles that expire
20:24:06 <andythenorth> 4x zoom is so bracing
20:24:12 <andythenorth> also useful for checking sprites
20:24:39 <peter1138> 2x UI is rather spiffing!
20:24:47 <peter1138> I deny just being old...
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20:45:44 <andythenorth> expiring vehicles
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20:55:00 <smith1232> hi, all. i am trying to setup a dedicated server behind a router. for some reason, nmap says tcp 3979 is open (service smwan), but udp 3979 is open|filtered (service unknown). does anyone have a clue as to what might be the case here?
20:56:01 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:57:41 <smith1232> yeah, i have all of those open in my port forwarding router settings.
20:57:55 <smith1232> but something is obviously incorrect, have no idea what.
20:58:04 <smith1232> granted, my router is a piece of junk.
20:58:05 <Rubidium> doesn't filtered imply that it's firewalled?
20:58:16 <smith1232> open|filtered means nmap doesnt know.
20:58:23 <smith1232> but yes, filtered would be firewalled.
20:58:36 <Rubidium> also, many routers' forwarding only works from outside to the inside, not from inside to inside
20:58:55 <Rubidium> or at least the cheap broadband ones ISPs give
20:58:57 <smith1232> let me try to explain: iptables is letting everything through, the firewall on the router is off.
20:59:20 <smith1232> of course, i am trying to access the game "from the outside"
20:59:29 <smith1232> not really, but i am using the outside ip of the router
20:59:40 <smith1232> which should mean that the packets go out and back, right?
20:59:51 <Rubidium> yeah, so if you're on the "inside"... then it's likely not going to work
21:00:09 <smith1232> could someone help me test then?
21:00:56 <smith1232> i would give you the ip
21:00:59 <Rubidium> enable that, if it shows up at servers.openttd.org then it works (or at least the UDP)
21:01:10 <smith1232> ok, lemme go ahead and do that
21:02:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:03:17 <smith1232> hm, there seems to be no advertise flag for the server.
21:03:25 <smith1232> do i need an openttd.cfg for that?
21:03:28 <smith1232> because there is none
21:03:58 <smith1232> (i mean in cli, there is no switch)
21:05:09 <Rubidium> it's a setting in the config file (shutdown the server before editing it)
21:06:47 <smith1232> when you unpack the 1.4.3 archive
21:06:57 * andythenorth uses _private attributes
21:06:57 <smith1232> i need to create it i suppose?
21:07:09 <Rubidium> like the readme says, it'll likely be in ~/.openttd/
21:07:27 <smith1232> i unpacked the file i downloaded from the site
21:08:15 <smith1232> yeah, i did that since i had gentoo earlier on that puter
21:08:22 <smith1232> maybe i should just install the ubuntu thing now
21:08:28 <smith1232> i am running ubuntu server on there
21:08:35 <Rubidium> still... ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
21:09:15 <smith1232> i do have that. but i think that's only because i have the old version installed
21:09:24 <smith1232> i did that to get all the dependencies
21:09:27 <smith1232> without having to worry
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21:09:44 <smith1232> still, i suppose the new version that is only unpacked reads that anyway.
21:09:57 <smith1232> do you think its a problem that the .cfg is from an older version?
21:09:59 <Rubidium> smith1232: what does the readme say about it?
21:11:11 <smith1232> thanks for your help Rubidium
21:12:02 <smith1232> if anyone else can help me, that would be awesome
21:13:08 <argoneus> >want to look up how to make a simple sideline hub
21:15:05 <smith1232> i.e. my server is now advertised
21:15:13 <smith1232> however, i see it as within my household
21:15:22 <smith1232> which is probably not that strange
22:58:04 <argoneus> how do wetrails work?
22:58:09 <argoneus> I thought you could place them on water :(
23:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no. they just look like water. for the game they work like rails, so they must be placed on land
23:14:45 <argoneus> the bottom part of this
23:15:02 <argoneus> why is there the unreachable part with the combo signals?
23:15:08 <argoneus> wouldn't doublesided combo signals work?
23:15:13 <argoneus> without special shenanigans
23:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no, because they would effectively increase the signal distance
23:15:55 <argoneus> don't they behave as block signals in the direction where no entry signal is specified?
23:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the combo signal is both an entry and an exit signal
23:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so when one is red, all are red
23:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in both directions
23:16:59 <argoneus> so if I have onesided entry signal, and twosided combo signal
23:17:06 <argoneus> then if entry is red, both combo are red?
23:17:24 <argoneus> I thought it only worked in the one way
23:17:31 <argoneus> it behaves as an entry signal in the one direction
23:46:32 <argoneus> is there a reason why there cannot be signal type A in one direction and signal type B in another direction?
23:46:36 <argoneus> is it difficult to implement?
23:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that would mean in a tile with || or = rails, there are 4 different signals on it
23:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> needs too many bits
23:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's fiddly
23:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and nobody uses block signals anyway
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23:50:26 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: so you would need 12*4 bits for each tile?
23:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 bits for signal type, 1 bit for signal state, 1 bit for style
23:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 bit for whether the signal is present
23:53:01 <argoneus> so if you wanted to do it separately
23:53:14 <argoneus> you would need 3! * 2 for signal type?
23:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes no sense
23:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there are 8 signal types (2 unused)
23:54:11 <argoneus> and if you were to cover all combinations
23:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the combinations are with repetition, so 8^4
23:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> plus style, etc.
23:56:36 <argoneus> I need to remove the dust on my combinatorics
continue to next day ⏵
