IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2014-09-22
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06:43:10 <Supercheese> some odd stuff going on here in the Content Download window: "This is a replacement for an existing Base graphics"
06:43:27 <Supercheese> it works fine for most things ("This is a replacement for an existing NewGRF/AI")
06:43:33 <Supercheese> but base sets have odd wording
06:44:00 <Supercheese> perhaps it should be reworded to "Base graphics set"?
06:44:41 <Supercheese> oh wait that string is used elsewhere, hmmm
06:44:53 <Supercheese> same string as in the actual content type column
06:45:11 <Supercheese> better check source...
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06:50:13 <Supercheese> Yeah hmm wouldn't work well to just change the offending strings
06:50:49 <Supercheese> at least aesthetically, it would further widen the Type column in the content download window
06:51:57 <peter1138> Where do you see the text "this is a replacement"?
06:52:22 <Supercheese> ok, steps to reproduce: 1) Have an old version of something (AI/grf/etc) downloaded
06:52:33 <Supercheese> preferably previously via Bananas
06:52:41 <Supercheese> 2) Check content downloading
06:52:48 <Supercheese> and yeah you get the rest
06:53:04 <Supercheese> STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_UPDATE :{SILVER}This is a replacement for an existing {STRING}
06:53:22 <Supercheese> it pulls the {STRING} from STR_CONTENT_TYPE_BASE_GRAPHICS et al.
06:54:22 <Supercheese> so perhaps the detail update string should be reworded, lemme think
06:56:14 <Supercheese> "This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} file" might work, or can things be more than one file?
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06:57:21 <planetmaker> well, yes. You can unpack the archives you download from bananas
06:57:42 <planetmaker> then it contains grf(s) and documentations. Or an AI usually has several nut files
06:58:48 <Supercheese> "This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} package" has the inverse problem, what if the thing is only a single file
06:59:04 <Supercheese> although it is automatically .tar'd is it not?
06:59:46 * peter1138 ponders these button sizes
07:00:01 <Supercheese> they are a bit vertically challenged
07:00:06 <planetmaker> Supercheese, not automatically. But if you use bananas, then yes
07:00:08 * Supercheese wouldn't mind a taller set of buttons
07:00:19 <Supercheese> andythenorth: Content download window
07:00:21 <planetmaker> and even a single file can be considered a package. That way it works better (I think)
07:00:35 <Supercheese> "This is a replacement for an existing {STRING} package" would alleviate the awkward grammar methinks
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07:00:37 <peter1138> andythenorth, same as yesterday :)
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07:00:52 <peter1138> But, pixel-perfect-wise... Hmm...
07:01:05 <Supercheese> although it still has some odd capitalization
07:01:38 <peter1138> They're 66 pixels, which is 64 + 2 for the lines. But the sprites sometimes overlap, so they overlap even more at 2x.
07:02:15 <Supercheese> "This is a replacement for an existing Game script" odd to have the capital floating there
07:29:39 <andythenorth> maybe this set needs *more* vehicles not fewer
07:35:23 <Supercheese> Maybe it needs Moor vehicles, i.e. camels
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07:37:43 <andythenorth> anyone tried SBB set yet?
07:40:45 <Supercheese> Apparently the author recommends Squid/FISH, CHIPS, FIRS and HEQS
07:41:29 <Supercheese> along with many other grfs, of course
07:41:44 <peter1138> Not exactly exhaustive.
07:42:46 <andythenorth> I should finish the Blue Danube roster for Squid :P
07:42:49 <andythenorth> moar river boats
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08:01:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26906 /trunk/src (5 files) (2014-09-22 08:01:25 UTC)
08:01:32 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Scale depot and station picker buttons by GUI zoom level.
08:02:29 <peter1138> don't go getting ideas
08:18:41 <V453000> fitting to the setting though
08:20:13 <peter1138> if you had a high-dpi screen, it'd be handy
08:20:28 <peter1138> (and if your graphics set includes zoomed in sprites, they get used)
08:22:34 <V453000> well I am a bit sceptical to why even have a high dpi screen
08:24:21 <peter1138> Also... why the fuck does zBase use alpha for tile edges?
08:25:05 <V453000> because it requires serious lot of work to get them away from there
08:25:16 <V453000> they got that way from the render
08:25:39 <V453000> creating the precise pixel mask isnt easy, I tried
08:25:53 <V453000> tiles dont seem to want to come together well
08:26:11 <V453000> (I have everything working "fine", but getting all combinations to fit together perfectly seems impossible)
08:26:39 <V453000> other than that Zephyris probably simply wanted quantity and to get the thing done somehow
08:26:55 <V453000> it proved the concept. :)
08:26:58 <peter1138> And that's why it glitches all over the place
08:27:08 <peter1138> And then things are the wrong size
08:27:38 <peter1138> I know, I know, I haven't done any better :p
08:35:28 <peter1138> i seem to remember starting something with sketchup, haha
08:36:34 <Supercheese> Sketchup is nice, much easier to use than blender or 3ds max :P
08:36:57 <Supercheese> it can render stuffs well enough for some purposes
08:36:58 <peter1138> rendering options limited though
08:37:14 * Supercheese uses it on occasion for rendering Newgrf sprites
08:37:38 <Supercheese> wouldn't do anything remotely close to Yetis though
08:37:43 <peter1138> also it only runs on toy OSes
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08:38:19 <Supercheese> It's like Sketchup is to blender/3ds max as GRFmaker is to raw NFO
08:38:45 <Supercheese> although I've never actually used GRFmaker to validate that analogy
08:38:45 <V453000> you can actually get nice stuff from sketchup with Vray :P
08:40:45 <peter1138> If only there was a linux port :(
08:40:51 <peter1138> I tried it under wine once, no go.
08:41:23 <peter1138> Blender is too hard for my brane
08:42:46 <peter1138> I have tried. Every time I need to look up the keystrokes...
08:43:18 <Supercheese> Sketchup UI vs. Blender UI is like Windows 7 vs. DOS
08:43:34 <Supercheese> ok maybe not quite but that's the idea
08:45:15 <V453000> blender UI LOOKS nice
08:45:20 <V453000> but using it felt like hell to me too
08:45:28 <V453000> didnt get very far either
08:45:47 <Supercheese> they are both GUIs, so my analogy was poor
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08:46:42 <Supercheese> but if anything needs a dose of Saint Exupery, methinks it's Blender
08:48:11 * Supercheese still has no idea how to translate "block signal"
08:48:57 <Supercheese> it's referring to his quote, "perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away"
08:49:12 <Supercheese> made famous by Civilization 4, among other references
08:49:39 <Supercheese> andy's been on an SE kick
08:49:50 <Supercheese> (stupid apostrophe and enter keys' proximity)
08:49:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've ever heard that quote before civ4
08:50:15 <Supercheese> well, someone had to have translated it from French first :P
08:50:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and every kid knows saint-exupéry
08:51:12 <Supercheese> insofar as they know of any French aviator, I suppose
08:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think even many adults know that...
08:52:16 <Supercheese> I ended up looking up any quotee from Civ4 that I did not know about
08:53:08 <Supercheese> except the ones voiced by Sid, ugh he was horrible compared to Nimoy
08:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that obviously doesn't apply to the german translation
08:54:02 <Supercheese> and accompanying voiceover I presume
08:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the voiceover is translated as well
08:56:48 <V453000> now I get it Supercheese
08:56:52 <V453000> andy removed all of this vehicles?
08:56:59 <V453000> or something like that? :P
08:57:25 <Supercheese> also Av8/UKRS had the same treatment
08:58:12 <V453000> well on the bright side, realizing trains with bad stats are useless, is valid
08:58:24 <V453000> but I would have instead attempted to give them a use to use the sprites
08:59:02 <Supercheese> Yeah, the argument "inclusion for inclusion's sake"/"it existed IRL so it should be in the grf" isn't the strongest
08:59:39 <Supercheese> although I am all for more content for more content's sake, the line does need to be drawn somewhere
09:00:51 <V453000> I would just say that necessarily removing vehicles is not making a newGRF better even if they are useless .. easier to read, perhaps. But making new use for new vehicles or the current ones, is improvement
09:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf.... even V is more agreeing on the open-ended V-scale of opposing opinions than andy :p
09:07:33 <V453000> idontgetwhatyoujustsaid
09:17:01 <andythenorth> Supercheese: yeah, that quote
09:17:23 <andythenorth> I don’t know when I heard it, but probably 20 years ago or so
09:17:31 <andythenorth> maybe in connection with editing books or films
09:17:45 <peter1138> I don't think that quote applies to newgrfs :p
09:17:56 <andythenorth> newgrfs aren’t perfectible
09:18:15 <peter1138> 10cc is rather boring compared to UKRS
09:18:17 <andythenorth> they don’t stand alone like a book or a film
09:18:18 <V453000> it does in a way peter1138, but that doesnt mean to take away things, but to make things un-takeaway-able :D
09:18:25 <andythenorth> newgrfs fit into a bigger thing
09:19:37 <andythenorth> V453000: eddi said he thinks you are more sane than me
09:19:51 <V453000> that is what I thought and why I dont get it
09:20:21 <andythenorth> it is intriguing
09:20:49 <peter1138> hmm, 10cc has 20 engines in total
09:21:13 <peter1138> ukrs2 has 24 steam engines
09:21:47 <peter1138> 54 engines in total
09:22:28 <andythenorth> turn on the extras
09:22:31 <andythenorth> and the extended set
09:22:46 <andythenorth> that’s what got pikka started on minimals
09:24:54 <andythenorth> Iron Horse has 28 engines, and it will get some optional horse-maglevs
09:25:40 <V453000> horse maglevs sounds good
09:25:55 <V453000> you are one step to enlightenment with iron slugs
09:26:42 <peter1138> well yes, if you enable extras and addons, you'd expect to get more...
09:27:42 <andythenorth> how many trains in NUTSes?
09:28:21 <V453000> 100 something I think
09:28:53 <andythenorth> how many years covered?
09:29:52 <V453000> 125 trains looks like
09:30:13 <V453000> 2099 is just a bonus last slug
09:30:48 <V453000> also good compatibility with expiring vehicles means you can reduce the purchase list length a lot
09:30:58 <peter1138> 106, not including logic trains
09:31:07 <peter1138> i only did up to 2050, heh
09:31:17 <peter1138> so yeah, this cut down experience...
09:31:25 <peter1138> i'm sure it's easier to make a coherent set
09:31:32 <peter1138> but lack of choice makes it way less fun
09:32:00 <V453000> what do you mean by coherent
09:32:23 <peter1138> understandable? i dunno
09:33:04 <peter1138> but i think you started it
09:33:28 <V453000> andythenorth is guilty
09:33:31 <peter1138> and then all these sets come out with no features at all :p
09:34:03 <peter1138> Also, GetSpriteSize() is a pain in the arse for vehicle sprites :(
09:34:14 <andythenorth> I blame V453000 for BAD FEATURES
09:34:58 <V453000> well if people are even CONSIDERING that the newgrf is actually PLAYED and adjust functionality to make it played better, that alone is progress :P
09:35:12 <V453000> I blame andythenorth because I feel like blaming him is a good idea
09:35:45 <peter1138> i played ukrs2 with brake vans and all...
09:37:00 <andythenorth> I think this is not so hard really
09:37:14 <andythenorth> - include SOME BAD FEATURES
09:37:19 <andythenorth> - but NOT TOO MANY
09:37:29 <andythenorth> - there is no right number of vehicles, but BORING CHOICES ARE BORING
09:37:52 <V453000> e.g. nuts has 2 main bad features I am aware of
09:37:57 <peter1138> no choices is more boring
09:38:06 <V453000> 1. some trains are slightly overpowered
09:38:28 <V453000> users dont get how to use some trains, bad feature above all
09:38:34 <peter1138> Hmm, wonder how long the grf scan will take over NFS...
09:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the choices in train fever are definitely too low
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09:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and i think the freight wagon speed limits are too high...
09:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, double...
09:39:58 <andythenorth> Choose steam. Choose diesels. Choose electrics. Choose metro. Choose narrow gauge. Choose box cars, open cars and hoppers. Choose your friends. Choose a fucking big television.
09:40:06 <peter1138> Hmm, doesn't take very long at all actually.
09:45:32 <peter1138> Also, dbsetxl (the ancient one) doesn't have all that many engines.
09:46:52 <V453000> yeah one which breaks every other pax train to be rendered useless is enough XD
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10:08:52 <Jiinxs> I've downloaded the BigUI but It wont change the UI in the savegame I have. Which is a savegame I started without the BigUI. Is there a way around that?
10:16:35 <planetmaker> Jiinxs, you can try to enable biggui as a static newgrf in your openttd.cfg
10:17:22 <planetmaker> easiest way: configure it for use in your next game. Then exit OpenTTD
10:17:47 <planetmaker> open openttd.cfg in editor, move the line with ogfx+biggui from the [newgrf] section to the [newgrf-static] section
10:18:02 <planetmaker> save openttd.cfg and start openttd and you should be ready to go
10:19:35 <Jiinxs> Thanks, I will give that a try.
10:23:36 <Jiinxs> It worked doing the first thing you said =)
10:23:42 <peter1138> cool, hopefully i will make that newgrf obsolete soon
10:23:54 <peter1138> planetmaker, zbase ui is massive btw ;p
10:37:33 <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, they are double-size. They should (and must) be reduced to normal
10:37:54 <planetmaker> it's something I'm plan to do eventually...
10:39:24 <planetmaker> yeah, it's something which has been bugging me for long, too :)
10:39:26 <peter1138> at least the double-size can be kept for 2x
10:50:15 <LordAro> burn it, burn it with fire
10:51:20 <peter1138> Their example is wrong too, it has newlines in it. All the JSON stuff I've used specifically can't have newlines.
10:57:22 <LordAro> depends on the thing really
10:57:35 <LordAro> the point is that whitespace can (largely) be ignored
10:58:53 <V453000> all of the JSON stuff I used could do anything I want it to do
10:59:06 <V453000> unfortuntately I didnt use any :P
11:01:12 <peter1138> Must've been a dodgy converter, then.
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11:18:22 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 50 weeks, 1 day, 10 hours, 59 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
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11:20:00 <peter1138> Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring ring pikkakaphone
11:21:17 <Pikkaphone> what's the do chaps?
11:22:13 <peter1138> 10cc purchase list is... large with double size ui
11:22:34 <planetmaker> you should see it in 4x size then!
11:23:37 <Pikkaphone> parameter to smallersize?
11:24:55 <Pikkaphone> 10cc basically has double size ui built in, so I suppose I could just change it if double size ui is going to become optional in ottd
11:25:07 <Pikkaphone> no parameter required, even
11:29:09 <planetmaker> yeah, no parameter :)
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11:40:54 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: also the do is…moar trucks
11:41:00 <peter1138> but yeah, 10cc uses bigger purchase sprites already, so...
11:41:07 <andythenorth> I tried deleting some, now I conclude I need more
11:42:34 <Pikkaphone> 10ccs purchase list sprites are 4ez sprites coded as 2ez. so it would be simple for me to change it. When's big ui going in trunk? ;)
11:43:58 <peter1138> dunno, depends if i finish it, or leave it lying around so i can say i had a patch for that at some time in the future...
11:45:04 <andythenorth> leave it around, without backups
11:45:06 <Pikkaphone> more generations, andythenorth?
11:45:09 <peter1138> andythenorth, not again!
11:45:26 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: might add more specialist trams
11:45:34 <andythenorth> I dunno, I was thinking
11:45:58 <andythenorth> 1900-1950 was kind of a history lesson about poor road vehicles
11:46:02 <andythenorth> but that’s boring
11:46:09 <andythenorth> I just want to move cargo, not teach history
11:46:35 <peter1138> Hmm, actually, putting my Documents folder onto the NAS was awkard. That's no longer backed up every day :S
11:46:37 <andythenorth> so I’m going to put in more trams, and they’ll be good
11:46:44 <andythenorth> then there will be some tram-truck overlap
11:46:47 <andythenorth> then trucks will be good
11:48:18 <Pikkaphone> if you're going to have articulated road vehicles, might as well go the whole HOG :D
11:49:12 <Pikkaphone> maybe road trains as an addon called "the whole hog" D:
11:49:43 <andythenorth> road trains not in brit roster
11:49:46 <andythenorth> roster? roaster?
11:50:01 <andythenorth> road trains in NA, kiwi/kangaroo rosters
11:50:27 <andythenorth> rosters are how I avoid design choices :P
11:50:46 <Pikkaphone> transafrican aeroplane canals?
11:52:56 <andythenorth> only if they are horsedrawn
11:54:23 <Pikkaphone> the aeroplane canal means the end of the horsedrawn Zeppelin
11:54:40 <andythenorth> how about underground?
11:55:08 <Pikkaphone> underground zeppelins?
11:56:24 <Pikkaphone> is it silly enough, that's the question
11:56:42 <andythenorth> I think it’s way too sensible
11:57:12 <V453000> what do you take andy?
12:00:10 <V453000> and it looks like Pikka is your dealer
12:03:11 <andythenorth> I mostly take sleep deprivation
12:03:21 <andythenorth> and a sense that life is short
12:43:42 <andythenorth> should I put out the Horse with bug fixes?
12:44:03 <andythenorth> or should I fix 404 pages?
12:52:12 <peter1138> Changes its power based on current mood
12:53:28 <andythenorth> if I made a cut down NUTS
12:53:37 <andythenorth> would it be Less NUTS?
12:53:41 <andythenorth> or something else?
12:53:46 <V453000> what would you cut down? :)
12:53:56 <andythenorth> I have no idea, it’s a theoretical question
12:53:58 <andythenorth> no intention of doing it
12:54:09 <planetmaker> it would be cracked nuts :)
12:54:12 <V453000> well sure but I am asking which parts come to the theory :D
12:54:37 <andythenorth> V453000: I’d remove 1 train, just so I can give it a silly name
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13:13:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r26907 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2014-09-22 13:13:02 UTC)
13:13:08 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Scale engine purchase list to GUI zoom level for multihead engines.
13:17:40 <andythenorth> and is fixing them
13:18:04 <argoneus> andythenorth: what are you fixing?
13:26:02 <argoneus> there is way to set GUI size?
13:27:00 <peter1138> only if you compile it
13:27:46 <V453000> only for blind people
13:28:58 <peter1138> hmm, i should test out_8x :p
13:36:28 <peter1138> Works reasonably well, actually. There's a few places where the hardcoded minimum size is too big
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14:09:29 <argoneus> what am I looking at
14:09:35 <argoneus> why is the UI so small
14:09:44 <Pikka> you're looking at a small UI
14:10:35 <argoneus> Pikka: do you go to /r/openttd?
14:10:43 <argoneus> I remember someone called PikkaChoo giving insight on something
14:11:37 <argoneus> I was thinking about improving my network while falling asleep
14:11:40 <argoneus> and couldn't fall asleep
14:29:03 <Rubidium> peter1138: I see you implemented a way to make the fonts larger ;)
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14:40:46 <Jiinxs> Is there a way to change alot of trains all in the same time, without sending each and every train to the depot and buy a new one?
14:41:04 <peter1138> Well depending on what change you want, there's autoreplace
14:41:08 <planetmaker> yes. It's called autoreplace. Or autorenew. Whatever you need :)
14:41:37 <planetmaker> our wiki knows and explains those two concepts, I'm lazy now :)
14:42:09 <Jiinxs> will check the wiki then =)
14:54:16 <LordAro> greyed out, or just not there?
14:54:17 <planetmaker> no, it's in OpenTTD itself. Open the train overview list and you can find those options (not in stations)
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14:57:19 <Jiinxs> Hmmm. I swear to god I was in the window.... Now I see it..
14:57:34 <Jiinxs> It wasnt there before... or something ;p
14:57:37 <planetmaker> maybe he heard you :P
14:58:28 <Alberth> jinks: hiding stuff in plain sight works surprisingly well :p
14:58:52 <Jiinxs> Pure evul if you ask me ^^
15:00:46 <planetmaker> hm, my thunderbird crashed to desktop... long time no seen :S
15:01:12 <Alberth> thunderbirds are ...... go!
15:02:20 <Alberth> Jiinxs: there is also a subtle difference between the global vehicle list and the vehicle list of a station, the latter has no link to autoreplace
15:04:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26908 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2014-09-22 15:04:18 UTC)
15:04:25 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: replace a magic number by a more logical calculation
15:04:28 <Alberth> spamming me with random PMs :)
15:04:40 <LordAro> not my fault zeph can't hit the replay-all button :p
15:05:05 <Alberth> tbh it's well hidden at the forum :)
15:05:10 <Jiinxs> I had alot of old busses I wanted to replace, but there wasnt an option in replacing them with the same type as they where. But I dont care that much if they are old.
15:05:29 <Alberth> Jiinxs: that's renewing
15:06:05 <LordAro> Jiinxs: there's a setting somewhere
15:06:20 <Alberth> turn on breakdowns, and you will care :)
15:07:09 <Jiinxs> found that you had to go into the config file and set it to true. will try it again now.
15:07:44 <LordAro> ...you didn't have to
15:08:38 <Alberth> if you loaded your game, it won't work :)
15:09:07 <Alberth> games have their own configuration, copied when first started
15:09:28 <Alberth> you can open the advanced settings, and setup autorenew there
15:11:07 <Jiinxs> I've already changed it in the config file and it seemed to worked. Found it also in the advanced settings. Now I can relax a bit more :)
15:16:17 <Alberth> watch your trains flowing through the network :)
15:30:09 <peter1138> utf8::upgrade($subject);
15:30:18 <peter1138> that statement alert $subject
15:30:24 <peter1138> that statement alters $subject
15:31:10 <Pinkbeast> Isn't that just call-by-reference at work?
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15:56:23 <Jiinxs> It's just amazing how fast time flys when you are playing this game ^^ So glad I started playing it again!
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16:01:15 <peter1138> Glad that you can waste so much time so easily?
16:02:18 <mist> Hey guys, is there a standalone server i download and play on with a friend?
16:02:42 <LordAro> you can use the same executable
16:02:51 <LordAro> (there's a button somewhere)
16:03:01 <LordAro> oh, and forwarding ports:
16:03:03 <DorpsGek> LordAro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
16:03:03 <mist> oh cool, thanks, i didn't know
16:03:18 <mist> this will be internally so hopefully nothing but the windows firewall to take care of
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16:22:23 <peter1138> does not really do much
16:25:03 <andythenorth> wears the ink off your j key
16:25:48 <Sylf> j is part of my name. I can't have it worn out
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16:28:22 <peter1138> Coo, 4X gui... how pointless :D
16:28:50 <peter1138> although after the zbase toolbar, it doesn't look much different, heh
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16:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there is certainly no "j" in "Sylf"
16:40:44 <peter1138> i can't even draw the X with DrawSprite :(
16:41:31 <planetmaker> yep, that needs becoming a sprite, too
16:50:42 <andythenorth> wrong channel eh?
16:50:52 <peter1138> ah, as long as i ensure it's not loaded as ST_FONT, i can load it as ST_NORMAL
16:54:46 <planetmaker> introducing a separate sprite would be nicer though. Close window and x need not necessarily look exactly alike :)
16:55:24 <peter1138> Eh... the X is specifically for the close box
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17:41:32 <frosch123> ah, no dog, something more proper :)
17:46:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26909 /trunk/src/lang (8 files) (2014-09-22 17:46:35 UTC)
17:46:50 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:51 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 13 changes by KorneySan
17:46:52 <DorpsGek> catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
17:46:53 <DorpsGek> english_US - 15 changes by Supercheese
17:46:54 <DorpsGek> german - 13 changes by planetmaker
17:46:55 <DorpsGek> italian - 14 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:56 <DorpsGek> korean - 17 changes by telk5093
17:46:57 <DorpsGek> polish - 13 changes by wojteks86
17:46:58 <DorpsGek> russian - 13 changes by Lone_Wolf
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17:54:41 <argoneus> I am now tempted to improve this game myself
17:54:51 <argoneus> but my coding skills a shit :<
17:55:19 <Alberth> there is a simple way to get better
17:55:31 <argoneus> I code almost all day
17:55:37 <argoneus> I code at school and at work
17:55:45 <argoneus> and when I come home I just want to play games
17:56:07 <Wolf01> my coding skills are really bad, but I did something :P
17:56:08 <argoneus> the ottd source seems like old school c++
17:56:09 <planetmaker> argoneus, coding skills get better the more you practice
17:56:56 <planetmaker> mine aren't great either. Yet one can make a difference with some effort :)
17:57:10 <argoneus> if it atleast was on github
17:57:10 <Alberth> in particular when you get feedback about what you're doing wrong :)
17:57:13 <argoneus> I'm not familiar with svn :<
17:57:27 <Alberth> there is a git mirror
17:57:38 <planetmaker> quite right, Alberth :) I got (and get) that a lot. It's good and helpful
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17:59:50 <peter1138> problem with git is we still use svn to commit ;(
18:00:20 <Alberth> that's not a problem, that's good :)
18:01:48 <peter1138> meh, you weird mercurial lovers
18:03:22 <argoneus> I can actually use both hg and git
18:04:03 <planetmaker> argoneus, as long as you don't commit to svn, just use whatever you like. We have a repo for each VCS
18:04:15 <planetmaker> each = svn,hg,git
18:04:32 <planetmaker> and they're always in sync (except the rare cases when they aren't)
18:04:57 <planetmaker> there's hardly any developer who still uses SVN as his primary VCS. We only use it in order to commit
18:05:28 <frosch123> the biggest portion of svn commits are by translator :p
18:07:33 <peter1138> hmm, right i need the latest version of grfcodec, i suppose?
18:07:42 <argoneus> I don't even know what the workflow is with svn
18:07:44 <peter1138> GRFCodec 6.0.0 r924 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
18:07:51 <argoneus> in git I just fork, do changes, then commit changes, then submit pull request
18:07:52 <planetmaker> will be helpful, yes
18:07:55 <argoneus> in svn I ? then ? then ???? then ??????
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18:08:22 <peter1138> argoneus, you just work in the repo, and match a diff when ready
18:08:29 <peter1138> argoneus, feel free to use git :P
18:08:34 <Rubidium> there's no need to send a pull request ;)
18:09:08 <argoneus> but how does anyone see my awesome (shitty) changes
18:09:20 <planetmaker> publish them as you see fit?
18:09:21 <peter1138> you show them your diffs
18:09:30 <argoneus> anyone can push into your repo?
18:09:54 <planetmaker> but what stops you to use bitbucket, github or whatever? Or to just post patches?
18:09:58 <argoneus> so there's no simple way to contribute, I need to do paperwork with the responsible people :<
18:10:19 <argoneus> pull requests are easier
18:10:25 <argoneus> everyone can see proposed code changes
18:10:31 <argoneus> like this I'd need to post in the forum / here / w/e no?
18:10:49 <andythenorth> ottd pre-dates the rise of git or bitbucket somewhat
18:11:05 <planetmaker> quite a bit, yeah
18:11:27 <andythenorth> and historically patches are via forums, with back and forth here
18:11:50 <planetmaker> yeah. Or our issue tracker. Forums is more public, though
18:11:51 <argoneus> I've been playing this game since I was 6
18:11:54 <argoneus> but I am not registered at tt forums
18:11:57 <peter1138> checking grfcodec... needs at least version 6.0.5 (r985), disabled
18:12:30 <peter1138> Latest release in grfcodec is 6.0.4, released on 2013-07-15 19:04 UTC.
18:12:46 <argoneus> is it more common to submit source code patches or binary?
18:12:47 <Alberth> make a git-hg copy, git clone
18:12:49 <argoneus> wait, that's a stupid question
18:12:49 <planetmaker> no need to make a grfcodec release till openttd release needs it, peter1138
18:13:00 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 6.0.5 is like opentd 1.5.0.26908 (an alpha)
18:13:22 * andythenorth considers moving to git
18:13:28 <Alberth> argoneus: there are a few images in the repo too :)
18:13:43 <peter1138> i'm not sure where to find newer grfcodecs
18:14:03 <peter1138> i found that version on the website, but there's no link to a dev version
18:14:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26910 trunk/src/viewport.cpp (2014-09-22 18:14:44 UTC)
18:14:51 <DorpsGek> -Fix: account for the height of the landscape at the edge of the map to determine the scroll boundaries (based on patch by ic111)
18:15:08 <peter1138> Alberth, thanks, saves having to sully my system with mercurial
18:15:49 <Alberth> peter1138: no git-hg bridge?
18:16:11 <peter1138> checking nforenum/grfcodec... grfcodec needs nforenum enabled, disabling grfcodec
18:16:15 <peter1138> HSRGIOhsioghsdioghaidhg
18:16:29 <Alberth> not that it would work probable, the hg-git bridge isn't that useful at least
18:16:58 <peter1138> Ah, it comes with grfcodec anyway
18:17:41 <Alberth> yeah, I expected that
18:18:08 <planetmaker> I think with the 5.x releases of both
18:18:32 <argoneus> there seem to be 40 untranslated strings in my language, would it be possible for me to do that or is there a more difficult process?
18:19:30 <peter1138> urgh, i can't put a truncated palette into the grf :(
18:20:14 <argoneus> but I am not sure if this "translation manager" person is active, or maybe if he's even in this very channel
18:21:21 <planetmaker> what makes you believe so, argoneus ?
18:22:35 <mist> Where do i change name of my company? =D
18:22:43 <peter1138> and... grfcodec complains because there's too many palettes anyway :S
18:22:45 <argoneus> click on the moustache dude
18:23:38 <argoneus> compiling openttd on windows seems like a pain
18:23:48 <Alberth> oh, setting it, company window indeed
18:23:55 <peter1138> so i need to compile grfcodec/nforenum anyway to do thsi
18:24:01 <peter1138> fuck this bullshit, the X can stay small
18:24:01 <Alberth> argoneus: yep, compiling and windows is always pain
18:24:12 <argoneus> if all games worked on linux
18:24:14 <argoneus> I would be full linux
18:24:39 <Alberth> I accepted I cannot play the non-interesting ones :)
18:25:06 <argoneus> counter strike global offensive :<
18:25:29 <Jiinxs> Is it just me, or will there be a big problem in changing from electric to monorail? Thinking about the change of trains. What do you guys do when you are at that point of the game?
18:25:35 <planetmaker> hihi, yeah. There's anyway only so much time I can spend time on playing. Then I can play those games which don't annoy me by requiring an OS I feel sullied when I need to use it
18:25:42 <argoneus> Jiinxs: in vanilla yes
18:25:48 <argoneus> in some train newgrfs such as NUTS it's painless
18:25:56 <planetmaker> Jiinxs, I simply don't use monorail+maglev ;)
18:26:04 <Alberth> Jiinxs: don't replace, build new lines instead
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18:26:32 <Alberth> or use a newgrf that gives a choice what to do :)
18:29:20 <Jiinxs> There would be so time consuming to change out all my trains for mono and when Im done I can maybe buy the mag insted ;p So I think Im gonna not change my trains and just wait for mong and do it all then.
18:29:21 <mist> is it possible to toggle buildings on and off so that you can only see stuff like roads?
18:32:28 <peter1138> yeah don't bother with monorail
18:34:28 <Jiinxs> Just found out there is a "advanced mode" inside the advanced settings. It was on basic so that's why I didnt see like the autorenew button.
18:35:34 <frosch123> the advanced settings gui is the only gui we change with about every release :p
18:36:10 <Sylf> and the gui in trunk is majorly different already from 1.4
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18:36:31 <frosch123> and i hope it becomes even more diffferent
18:40:19 <peter1138> fun "feature" of svn: svn diff doesn't output the changes in a deterministic way
18:40:33 <planetmaker> it's one of our biggest construction sites. For ages. But then... most things we change in the game end up (also) there
18:42:29 <peter1138> ahh, remember the old tabbed version...
18:42:58 <argoneus> has anyone tried compiling ottd with VS 2013? I'm not sure which one to get
18:43:12 <frosch123> i recently encountered a screenshot of the ottd 0.2 patch settings on the wiki
18:43:30 <Alberth> peter1138: that's a know issue with some svn versions, they fixed it again in some newer version
18:43:32 <frosch123> half of the settings shown there do no longer exist in the gui, dropped for being pointless :)
18:43:55 <peter1138> evidently not the version in debian
18:44:05 <Wolf01> is the date of the compile farm wrong?
18:44:45 <Wolf01> Latest release in trunk is r26909, released on 2014-09-21 18:00 UTC. <- today is the 22nd
18:46:29 <frosch123> no idea, where the website messes up
18:46:32 <Sylf> binaries.openttd.org/binaries/nightlies/trunk/index.html looks okay to me
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18:58:22 <andythenorth> accessible thread is interesting
18:58:27 <andythenorth> accessible games are interesting
19:01:02 <Alberth> is that even remotely feasible for a game like openttd?
19:01:28 <Alberth> so many tiny details, and so much stuff that's moving
19:10:32 <andythenorth> the games I made were pretty much turn based
19:10:38 <andythenorth> like illustrated text adventures
19:10:58 <Alberth> that would be much more feasible I think
19:13:36 <Wolf01> isn't yet possible to change the map height limit?
19:13:36 <andythenorth> nothing represented visually that can’t be represented audibly
19:13:47 <andythenorth> also everything must have both keyboard and mouse controls
19:13:55 <andythenorth> and not require key combos, or multi-press
19:14:40 <Sylf> sounds like a nightmare for openttd
19:15:31 <peter1138> Are there any plans to release OpenTTD as Windows 8 (Store) app?
19:16:41 <Wolf01> about accessibility: I ended up using quick gestures with the pen to use the ctrl and del keys, it's a pita
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19:21:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r26911 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2014-09-22 19:21:37 UTC)
19:21:43 <DorpsGek> -Change: increase maximum possible flat land height in scenario editor to be entered directly (ic111)
19:57:40 <argoneus> did anyone here manage to download openttd without "network connection closed unexpectedly" seven times?
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19:58:28 <frosch123> argoneus: what url did you use?
19:58:40 <frosch123> and didn't you want to use git or hg?
19:58:46 <argoneus> svn://svn.openttd.org
19:58:52 <argoneus> well it doesn't matter if I'm just getting the source
19:59:02 <frosch123> use svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
19:59:13 <argoneus> I'm getting all the old branches
19:59:22 <argoneus> is the hg version pre-branched?
19:59:28 <argoneus> or is it just the default branch
19:59:35 <frosch123> hg and git are only default branch, yes
20:02:13 <argoneus> I suppose I want to get trunk, right
20:02:43 <argoneus> I've never really used svn
20:02:47 <argoneus> "trunk" is the "master"?
20:03:24 <frosch123> "trunk" is "default" in hg, i am not 100% sure about the git terms, but i think it is "master"
20:03:46 <frosch123> just that svn does not have real branches :)
20:03:58 <argoneus> this makes things easier
20:04:10 <argoneus> I can just make a branch "dev"
20:04:15 <argoneus> and once in a while merge it with the current default
20:04:23 <frosch123> really, use hg or git
20:04:29 <frosch123> ignore svn branches
20:04:48 <frosch123> noone should use svn branches these days :)
20:06:34 <frosch123> well, i guess it is better than cvs after all :)
20:06:44 <frosch123> which was the goal, wasn't it? :p
20:07:02 <frosch123> only twice as old as svn
20:07:14 <frosch123> only 3 times as old as git (random guess)
20:07:40 <argoneus> >developed as a series of shell scripts in 1986
20:25:54 <Jiinxs> Hmmm, I thought I could buy shares in other company's after a while. But I still cant buy. Is there somewhere in the settings that I need to enable?
20:27:37 <Jiinxs> never mind, somehow every time I ask here. I find the answer after, by my self.
20:29:03 <frosch123> it has a text search field
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20:41:48 <argoneus> I'm trying to compile this glorious game with VS
20:42:04 <argoneus> but I am getting "cannot open include file 'unicode/coll.h': no such file or dir
20:42:19 <argoneus> has that happened to anyone?
20:42:22 <frosch123> did you get openttd-useful ?
20:48:57 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 37 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Pikka> but yes, that's me
20:52:34 <andythenorth> he thinks fast coaches for RV service between towns
20:52:40 <andythenorth> and I want to quiz him about it
20:53:13 <argoneus> LINK: fatal error LNK1123: failure during conversion to COFF: file invalid or corrupt
20:57:51 <andythenorth> somehow I talked myself into adding 13 RVs
20:58:00 <andythenorth> this is not how deleting things works :(
20:58:11 <andythenorth> if I went up to 2050 it would be 32
20:58:17 <peter1138> you were doing it wrong
20:58:27 <peter1138> you're only supposed to delete things you don't need
20:58:33 <peter1138> clearly you need at least that many
20:58:34 <glx> argoneus: try a full rebuild
20:58:47 <peter1138> if you have less vehicles than the default set, you're doing it wrong :D
21:00:15 <andythenorth> I get 56 trams, buses and trucks, for 1870-2000
21:00:44 <andythenorth> that’s auto-replacing crap every 2 years, enough surely?
21:00:53 <andythenorth> I hate auto-replace
21:01:06 <andythenorth> hate / dislike /s
21:02:10 <andythenorth> it’s annoying that auto-replace leaves broken “can’t stop replacing this type” vehicles in the lists
21:02:23 <andythenorth> I never filed a report :P
21:02:40 * andythenorth tries to replicate, brb
21:03:33 <andythenorth> make a group, 1 is enough
21:03:41 <andythenorth> now set a replace rule on ‘all trains'
21:03:59 <andythenorth> go to your group and open replace vehicles
21:04:16 <andythenorth> you will have a greyed-out rule which you can’t clear
21:04:31 <andythenorth> I know the group is a subset of the superset ‘all’ etc :P
21:04:37 <andythenorth> but the UI is broken there
21:05:21 <peter1138> sounds like you expect to be able to remove rules from parents in children?
21:05:32 <andythenorth> I expect buttons to do something when I click them
21:05:34 <andythenorth> first world problem
21:05:38 <andythenorth> but it pisses me off :)
21:08:57 <peter1138> it doesn't even behave that way for me
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21:09:15 <peter1138> can't repalce vehicles on an empty group
21:10:24 <planetmaker> argoneus, go ahead and start translating. You might need to re-login, though, before changes take effect
21:10:41 <peter1138> otoh, global autoreplace isn't working right
21:10:49 <andythenorth> put a vehicle in the group :)
21:10:52 <andythenorth> forgot that step
21:11:05 <andythenorth> it’s kind of weird
21:11:11 <andythenorth> groups over-ride global
21:12:16 <argoneus> planetmaker: oh, thanks
21:13:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: peter1138: maybe fs#5978 or something?
21:14:39 <argoneus> oh, wow, translating isn't as easy as I thought
21:14:39 <argoneus> since there's no context to the strings
21:16:25 <peter1138> i was autoreplacing on ungrouped, no wonder :p
21:16:59 <andythenorth> I think I’ve seen #5978 in action
21:17:09 <andythenorth> the current behaviour in groups is ‘correct’
21:17:12 <andythenorth> it’s just confusing
21:18:36 <peter1138> just needs to disable the button, and maybe indicate why
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21:26:00 <argoneus> is it possible the english strings are wrong too?
21:26:10 <argoneus> "Afterwards the bridge above it would be too high."
21:40:12 <argoneus> planetmaker: can I fix already existing strings too?
21:40:22 <argoneus> there are some very wrong plurals
22:04:42 <argoneus> good night and thanks for all the help
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